336 réponses à ce sujet

[M8DMAN]

This game is good but it could have been better.
I hope ME3 won't turn out like this.

Modifié par M8DMAN, 11 mars 2011 - 08:07 .

[Sabiancym]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Consoles ARE computers. The 360 is basically a DirectX 9 port. The issue is accessibilty. Consoles cause less headaches as users dont have to "tweak" their systems to work and they only have to test on one set of hardware.

If you have done any PC tech support you would know that the vast majority of Casual PC gamers know very little about their systems. Unfortunately, with modern games, you have to understand hardware, drivers and patching. All those headaches go away for consoles.

And that's why we have dumbed down games.  People would rather bask in ignorance than actually take the time to figure something out that would lead to them having a much better experience.  

The enjoyment of mastering a complex game like Eve online or some older RPGs is completely un-matched by beating some casual RPG that any 11 year old can.

[Foolsfolly]

the re-use of the levels is something we knew was a bit of a risk, but we wanted to make sure there was more content rather than less

What would have had to be cut to give us one more cave map? There's only two main plot missions in the whole game. Everything else is side quests and MMORPG fetch quests.

I know it seems petty to complain about reusing maps but everything is reused. I got so sick of seeing that damned Cove map that I don't even want to start a second character yet. It's demoralizing seeing the same 5 locations over and over again with only different enemy spawns in them.

Well it's hard to know exactly what's going on with scores that are really, really negative. One possible culprit could just be a change backlash, i.e. this isn't Origins and I wanted Origins 2.

That's not me. I argued and argued on this board in the defense of DA2 and its changes. I prefer the DA2 combat system, leveling system, and friendship/rivalry. I enjoyed the first 1/3 of the game really well. The problem is there's no story! And all the foreshadowing from Awakening, Witch Hunt, and Golems is for nothing. The trailers have nothing to do with the game! Remember the Flemeth leading an army of Morrigans? Nothing. Even things like fighting the Strider on Witch Hunt, it felt like foreshadowing to some big changes in the world maybe Dalish elves tapping into forgotten magics to build their own kingdom. They're just lesser dragon fights in DA2. No story reasons for them. They're just there.

And that's the worst thing. I expect great storytelling from BioWare. I expect great writing. DA2 gave us some good character dialogue but no story. And without story a BioWare game is left legless.

Thus why I'd give it a 6/10. I like the changes. I like the gameplay. I like the characters. We just don't do anything but fetch quests while killing roughly 10,000 ninjas in Kirkwall. Seriously, those drop out of nowhere and fight to the death in order to mug a group of people that sometimes are even accompanied by the captain of the guard!

In terms of other elements of Mass Effect influencing it: I wouldn't say so.

Only haters thinks so anyway. Voiced protagonist was well done. I dug the voice actors and they did a good job. I hope to see more voiced protagonists in the future. Outside of the dialogue wheel there's nothing like Mass Effect. Although, I wouldn't have complained if the final mission had tough choices like ME2's finale did. There wasn't even DA:O's Redcliffe preparations to do. You just field a wave, then move through a small crawl to the final boss.

I don't know. I really liked aspects of DA2 but there's really nothing hanging the game together. And I think the most damning thing about the game is that when I finished it all I could think was that BioWare was milking us of our money. There'd be eight DLCs in five months, all over-priced garbage and maybe one of them adding a small but pointless story. It felt like a launching pad for additional projects and it was never going to tell its story, just give background for another one later.

An Origin story for DA3, if you will.

[Melness]

Sabiancym wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

Consoles ARE computers. The 360 is basically a DirectX 9 port. The issue is accessibilty. Consoles cause less headaches as users dont have to "tweak" their systems to work and they only have to test on one set of hardware.

If you have done any PC tech support you would know that the vast majority of Casual PC gamers know very little about their systems. Unfortunately, with modern games, you have to understand hardware, drivers and patching. All those headaches go away for consoles.

And that's why we have dumbed down games.  People would rather bask in ignorance than actually take the time to figure something out that would lead to them having a much better experience.  

The enjoyment of mastering a complex game like Eve online or some older RPGs is completely un-matched by beating some casual RPG that any 11 year old can.

What older RPGs? The ones with improved alacrity and time stop?

[tom.bleaker]

I for one miss horrid wilting.

[PSUHammer]

[quote]Sabiancym wrote...

[quote]Hammer6767 wrote...

Consoles ARE computers. The 360 is basically a DirectX 9 port. The issue is accessibilty. Consoles cause less headaches as users dont have to "tweak" their systems to work and they only have to test on one set of hardware.

If you have done any PC tech support you would know that the vast majority of Casual PC gamers know very little about their systems. Unfortunately, with modern games, you have to understand hardware, drivers and patching. All those headaches go away for consoles.[/quote]

And that's why we have dumbed down games.  People would rather bask in ignorance than actually take the time to figure something out that would lead to them having a much better experience.  

The enjoyment of mastering a complex game like Eve online or some older RPGs is completely un-matched by beating some casual RPG that any 11 year old can. [/quote]

While I probably wouldn't take the condes ending route and lump all console users in one group, I would agree that their accessability has led to different priorities in game design.

I am afraid that you have economics against you here, unfortunately. Console titles sell more, period.
[/quote]

[Sabiancym]

[quote]Hammer6767 wrote...

[quote]Sabiancym wrote...

[quote]Hammer6767 wrote...

Consoles ARE computers. The 360 is basically a DirectX 9 port. The issue is accessibilty. Consoles cause less headaches as users dont have to "tweak" their systems to work and they only have to test on one set of hardware.

If you have done any PC tech support you would know that the vast majority of Casual PC gamers know very little about their systems. Unfortunately, with modern games, you have to understand hardware, drivers and patching. All those headaches go away for consoles.[/quote]

And that's why we have dumbed down games.  People would rather bask in ignorance than actually take the time to figure something out that would lead to them having a much better experience.  

The enjoyment of mastering a complex game like Eve online or some older RPGs is completely un-matched by beating some casual RPG that any 11 year old can. [/quote]

While I probably wouldn't take the condes ending route and lump all console users in one group, I would agree that their accessability has led to different priorities in game design.

I am afraid that you have economics against you here, unfortunately. Console titles sell more, period.
[/quote][/quote]

I know, which is why I'm growing ever more frustrated.  I know I would gladly pay $75+ for a real deep involved game with plenty of replayability, but I'm not sure other big time RPG gamers would too.

Maybe some type of Better Business Bureau for depth and complexity in games needs to be made....hmmm.

[Haexpane]

Melness wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

I like the part where he mentions how much MORE could have been stripped out er,, i mean "streamlined" for DA2. No party members, no inventory, OMG they almost want full balls out to turn it into a pure action game with no semblance of RPG game conventions other than lots of talking heads.

Which means that DA2 is still an RPG?

Sure why not, ME2 is called an RPG.

[Bryy_Miller]

Sabiancym wrote...

Maybe some type of Better Business Bureau for depth and complexity in games needs to be made....hmmm.

You can't honestly be serious. "I didn't like the game, so I'm going to report them for having unethical business practices!"

[Shatterkiss]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Sabiancym wrote...

Maybe some type of Better Business Bureau for depth and complexity in games needs to be made....hmmm.

You can't honestly be serious. "I didn't like the game, so I'm going to report them for having unethical business practices!"

I think it's more:  "They have unethical business practices so I'm going to report them for unethical business practices."  Not liking the game probably does give people an additional incentive to do so, as angry people aren't very patient or forgiving.  As has been mentioned before, this probably wouldn't have been so huge if Bioware/EA hadn't already angered so many people with what they did to DA2.

[Blacklash93]

keyip wrote...

Malja wrote...

It makes me feel uncomfortable honestly. I can't figure out why. Their map spamming was... his explaining for that left me a bit mystified. Does artfully mean putting a cave map where you enter a cave or something? It wasn't too terrible, but it was undeniably saddening. So any acknowledgement, I suppose, is good.

Artfully probably meant 'not nearly as crappy as when we did it in ME1'.

They could have at least made the main story and companion quest maps unique.

I would have agreed it was better done than ME1 if it weren't for that.

[Sabiancym]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Sabiancym wrote...

Maybe some type of Better Business Bureau for depth and complexity in games needs to be made....hmmm.

You can't honestly be serious. "I didn't like the game, so I'm going to report them for having unethical business practices!"

I didn't say that at all.  I said some type of review panel for complexity and depth in games.  Basically a review site that reviews games based on the depth of the game.  So people who look for that sort of thing can know what they're getting in to.

Games like DA:O would get an 8.  Games like DA2 would get a 4.


Forget it...I knew someone would see Better Business Bureau and immediately stop reading....

[Bryy_Miller]

Sabiancym wrote...

Forget it...I knew someone would see Better Business Bureau and immediately stop reading....

You're pretty much right. A review you don't like is not unethical. 

[PSUHammer]

There is nothing unethical here, let's be serious. It isn't like games are a living necessity. They are a piece of entertainment that is highly subjective on the users part. If you applied that logic to film sequels that I didn't like, then there would be no more decent movie studios.

The only real voice you have is to stop buying their products. You can stomp up and down and hurl insults to them on forums, but those people tend to get tuned out.

[blowoutware]

Can this tool get fired? Please? because that was just disgusting.

[Mashiki]

Twaddlefish wrote...
Inb4 EA made them rush it.

Inon Zur says EA made them rush it.  You can read about it here: http://www.computera...-of-a-rush-job/

failtypoisfail

Modifié par Mashiki, 11 mars 2011 - 09:15 .

[sreaction]

Isn't the fact that the lead designer has to do an interview defending the game so soon after its release telling?

[Merced652]

sreaction wrote...

Isn't the fact that the lead designer has to do an interview defending the game so soon after its release telling?

Leave brittney alone?

[Sabiancym]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Sabiancym wrote...

Forget it...I knew someone would see Better Business Bureau and immediately stop reading....

You're pretty much right. A review you don't like is not unethical. 

That's not what I said at all.  Thanks for not reading.

[Merilsell]

Ryenke wrote...

What is so sad to me is what he said here:

"Dragon Age II certainly made some changes but holds very true to what us as a team sees as core tenets of the series. There's certainly refinement to do, there's learnings to be had, but I don't think it loses as much of the personality as it certainly could have."

OMG, he doesn't think it loses as much personality as it could have - and he's saying it like that is a POSITIVE thing?!?

Boogles the mind, eeh?

Even more so that BW apparently thinks we all are moron's incapable of read or even *gasp* remotely think and have the attention span of a squirrel on crack. Yeah, enchanting. Totally challenging.

OH NOES ENCHANTINZ I HAV 2 PUT DA RUNEZ IN DA WEAPONZ SLOT? I DUNNO HOWZ ITZ 2 COMPLICATED 4 ME!!!111!

*facepalm*

Bioware's marketing and afterwards contradicting interviews have always been a train wreck, but it had never been as bad as it is now.

AWESOME, Bioware...but not in a good way.

[Malja]

Merilsell wrote...

Ryenke wrote...

What is so sad to me is what he said here:

"Dragon Age II certainly made some changes but holds very true to what us as a team sees as core tenets of the series. There's certainly refinement to do, there's learnings to be had, but I don't think it loses as much of the personality as it certainly could have."

OMG, he doesn't think it loses as much personality as it could have - and he's saying it like that is a POSITIVE thing?!?

Boogles the mind, eeh?

Even more so that BW apparently thinks we all are moron's incapable of read or even *gasp* remotely think and have the attention span of a squirrel on crack. Yeah, enchanting. Totally challenging.

OH NOES ENCHANTINZ I HAV 2 PUT DA RUNEZ IN DA WEAPONZ SLOT? I DUNNO HOWZ ITZ 2 COMPLICATED 4 ME!!!111!

*facepalm*

Bioware's marketing and afterwards contradicting interviews have always been a train wreck, but it had never been as bad as it is now.

AWESOME, Bioware...but not in a good way.

Once again, saw that as sarcasm. If it's not, I completely over estimated the guy.

[sreaction]

Ryenke wrote...



OH NOES ENCHANTINZ I HAV 2 PUT DA RUNEZ IN DA WEAPONZ SLOT? I DUNNO HOWZ ITZ 2 COMPLICATED 4 ME!!!111!

*facepalm*

"You wouldn't want to confuse people with enchanting or anything complex like that" (Mike Laidlaw).

Yes, I too found that qoute perplexing.

Modifié par sreaction, 11 mars 2011 - 10:32 .

[Zy-El]

Why is anyone saying that DA2 was rushed? Way back in Aug 2010, Bioware said that they were so far ahead of schedule with DA2 that it was going to be released early. Therefore, Bioware stopped producing DLC for DA:O.
Personally, I would have preferred they kept on making DLC for Origins rather than work on DA2. Hmmmm . . . $60 could have bought me about 7 or 8 DLC's for Origins.

[skylr616]

It boils down to a game that challenges a fair amount of convention: it doesn't tell the usual fantasy story or present the usual fantasy combat, and in doing so it does run the risk of someone going, "Wow, this is just too different and I cannot handle it."

Zinger!

Good read.

Modifié par skylr616, 11 mars 2011 - 10:59 .

[Malja]

Zy-El wrote...

Why is anyone saying that DA2 was rushed? Way back in Aug 2010, Bioware said that they were so far ahead of schedule with DA2 that it was going to be released early. Therefore, Bioware stopped producing DLC for DA:O.
Personally, I would have preferred they kept on making DLC for Origins rather than work on DA2. Hmmmm . . . $60 could have bought me about 7 or 8 DLC's for Origins.

Inon Zur said that EA rushed the game.