336 réponses à ce sujet

[moilami]

drokan wrote...

The game is rushed, that is certain, just like Kotor 2 which Lucas arts made Obsidian to finish it before it was fully developed actually.
Why? Because Kotor 1 was a huge succes and Lucas wanted to benefit that game as much as he can. Same logic applies to the DA2, EA wanted to make much more profit in a short time.
And look what happened, we all are shouting and blaming Bioware.

game3 iz fine

look what sells more

u need evloves

[17thknight]

Every time you push a button, something awesome has to happen. It has to.

[Tellervo]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

I don't care that it's set in a different country. I don't care that it's not about the Warden. I don't care that it's not a Blight or some world-ending catastophe. I don't care that we're limited to one city (after all, Baldur's Gate was only one city).

What I do care about is a save-import system that doesn't work. I care about missing features, oversimplification when Origins was perfectly accessible already, dull level design and reused scenery. None of that in any way is me comparing DA2 with DA:O. This is DA2 on it's own merits.

This, pretty much.  If the series is going to be about the setting, fantastic!  I'll happily leave the Warden in the dust if you promise me we'll go all sorts of awesome places!  Let me be a young Crow scrabbling to rise through the ranks in Antiva or a deposed noble clawing my way back up against a Chantry conspiracy in Orlais, let me be the champion of a noble house in the Anderfels going up against Warden corruption, a Rivaini trader who gets stranded in Seheron or Par Vollen and has to navigate an alien culture, an elven slave leading an uprising in Tevinter, the return of the Nevarran dragon hunters (it is the Dragon Age, after all)--give me a game I care about, and make it fun to play.

Show me the world, let me shape it around me, don't present me oversimplified moral arguments and bland backdrops.  We're not too dumb to figure out what lines mean or to give them our own meaning--find a better way to present the attitude indicator instead of reducing everything to diplomatic/sarcastic/mean/sometimes flirt.  We're not too dumb to figure out customization mechanics or tactical combat.  Make it less buggy, make it playable.  You don't even have to optimize for PC--I'm not ashamed to admit I play console games, even if I'll always prefer PC games.

[DownyTif]

wow that guy should try a career in politics!

[this isnt my name]

So they speak of things not making sense, then they bring back people like anders...
Who in my game, died...

Also intervewi fail, he should have asked "do you feel as though you could have taken more time to develop the game". Because damn they need to mention this being so rushed.

[Marbazoid]

Ebenezer wrote...

Marbazoid wrote...

I think Mike did the best he could in that interview. He was very diplomatic, while at the same time honest. I mean really, what do you all expect him to say?

What I got from that interview was:

We knew we were taking a risk.

The metacritic score is lower than we expected.

We will most likely attempt to address common criticisms and complaints in the next installment.

I was somewhat with you up until "We will most likely attempt to address common criticisms and complaints in the next installment."  He actually mentions making the game even more dumbed down in the next installment.  I dont think that exactly addresses the criticisms.  I really didnt even get the impression he even knows what the real criticisms are.

Of course I dont expect him to come out publicly so soon after release and admit all of the games failures, but he seemed pretty clueless and ignorant.  As others have said already, some of what he said was flat out insulting.

He does not mention making the game more dumbed down in the next installment, he was talking about what could have been if their goal from the outset was to appeal to as many gamers as possible, "by commitee".

He makes reference to, and defends the changes to combat.

He acknowledges that there were too many instances of reused levels.

He does in fact mention that going through reviews and fan criticism after a longer time has passed would be the natural next step.

He mentions his surprise at the lower initial review scores.

Modifié par Marbazoid, 11 mars 2011 - 02:19 .

[tRaGiQuE_]

I like the game but IMO there is way too much time spent in the city. I have been playing for 2 days and still haven't left Kirkwall.....Is there even a World Map??..lol Also I am really sick of game companies excuses over streamlining games with cookie cutter dungeons and dumbed down skill trees. I have been playing since I had to go to an arcade in the 80's and at this point I am getting really turned off by the industry to the point of almost giving up on gaming altogether. Atleast the cookie cutter stuff wasn't this obvious in ME2. I would go on with this post but I am even sick of hearing all the public relations fanboys who feel they have to defend the game companies as if they owned them.

[Literateminority]

moilami wrote...

skyrend wrote...

I think what's lost on eveyrone is how much worse this could have been:

"We would have probably simplified down to a single character, maybe with companions; probably looked at doing some even deeper changes to inventory management, making sure that... You wouldn't want to confuse people with enchanting or anything complex like that."

Seriously?  Enchanting in DA:O was hard?  Materia on FFVII was infinitely more complex than DA:O enchantments.

What kind of imbeciles do these guys take their feedback from?

You don't wanna get mah started abotu enchanting! Pisses me!! Me want one sword with abilty to chose it be on fire or in forst or in acid. Or elektrisity if looks badass enough.

Mah brains hutrs too much if me think enkhantig.

Makes it sinple plz. At max it shouklds be liek dis "any1 echnater????" then the Jandal comes makez me Crusader and +40 str. Or what me wants.

That great would be! And bigger weapons for more boom boom!!! And not so much reading please, big and many words to hard to understand for me and my friends. School is for learning reading, not game!  I'm very happy that those great honest guys at EA understand! People who like to use head more than button on controller are minority, better making games withoout thinking!

EA and Bioware rule:O

[flushfire]

He was very diplomatic, while at the same time honest. I mean really, what do you all expect him to say?

Well you have to admit, it does hurt a bit when he lets out what he thinks of gamers' level of intelligence.

We will most likely attempt to address common criticisms and complaints in the next installment.

which means the game was not welcoming enough so the complexity that was left out should be streamlined further unfortunately.

[Down_with_EA]

Nice of him to kinda admit it, instead of flat out denial.

Having said that how thick does a man have to be to say, "I don't get the low scores"?

The game is awful. Waste of $63. I ordered a vintage copy of Arcanum a few weeks ago and it finally arrived. I can safely say that the $34 box is giving me more joy than while I played DA2.

[ragnaven]

Tellervo wrote...

Vengeful Nature wrote...

I don't care that it's set in a different country. I don't care that it's not about the Warden. I don't care that it's not a Blight or some world-ending catastophe. I don't care that we're limited to one city (after all, Baldur's Gate was only one city).

What I do care about is a save-import system that doesn't work. I care about missing features, oversimplification when Origins was perfectly accessible already, dull level design and reused scenery. None of that in any way is me comparing DA2 with DA:O. This is DA2 on it's own merits.

This, pretty much.  If the series is going to be about the setting, fantastic!  I'll happily leave the Warden in the dust if you promise me we'll go all sorts of awesome places!  Let me be a young Crow scrabbling to rise through the ranks in Antiva or a deposed noble clawing my way back up against a Chantry conspiracy in Orlais, let me be the champion of a noble house in the Anderfels going up against Warden corruption, a Rivaini trader who gets stranded in Seheron or Par Vollen and has to navigate an alien culture, an elven slave leading an uprising in Tevinter, the return of the Nevarran dragon hunters (it is the Dragon Age, after all)--give me a game I care about, and make it fun to play.

Show me the world, let me shape it around me, don't present me oversimplified moral arguments and bland backdrops.  We're not too dumb to figure out what lines mean or to give them our own meaning--find a better way to present the attitude indicator instead of reducing everything to diplomatic/sarcastic/mean/sometimes flirt.  We're not too dumb to figure out customization mechanics or tactical combat.  Make it less buggy, make it playable.  You don't even have to optimize for PC--I'm not ashamed to admit I play console games, even if I'll always prefer PC games.

Okay just had to be a lore monkey here, Rivaini last I checked has some of it currently occupied territory of the Qunari, so not so alien. Maybe a Rivaini attempting to free part of his country from the Qunari would have been nice though. Could have a nice, got captured and taken to par vollen frame break in there.

[Siven80]

I think its a fair interview tbh.

I personally am not an aold school rpg player who wanted a DAO clone, so im generally happy about the game. Sure its rushed and the PC versions hasn't had the same love as the consoles, yes the re-used content is annoying and i'd rather get out of the city for a while too, but so far i like most of the game.

All in all i see a lot of over exaggerating and whining cos its not a DAO clone, /shrug we all new it wasnt going to be from previews so i judge it on itws own merits.

[pezit]

I complain a lot about DA2 but i really can't see how he screwed up in this interview or made it worse. I mean do you want him to say that he think they failed? That would absolutely ruin their sales and he would get fired in a second.

[dheer]

I'm sick of the defense that people just don't like change. They don't like the result of the change.

Change the toilet paper in a public restroom to sandpaper and people will complain. Change it to high quality tp that feels like an angel wiped your bum and you won't really hear anything about it but people will be happy.

[WilliamShatner]

It's a little bit lower than we were expecting. We knew going in that
this may not sit around the same spot as Origins on all platforms (86
for the 360). There's been, I would say, more strongly negative reviews
appearing on Metacritic than I expected. I'm a little surprised by the
6/10s and they have a fair amount of weight early on. If the Metacritic
isn't where we want it to be, and honestly our goal as a studio is to
try and aim more for 90, then our next step will be to, very easily, go
through those reviews, go through fan feedback, especially over some
time - as opposed to the day-one initial response - and look at that in a
measured way and say, what didn't work, what did work, where did we go
too far, where did we not go far enough, where was there just an
inherent dissonance, and try to refine the experience and try to move
forward for any future products.

This quote almost makes me throw up.

Game reviewers are generally blow The Sun or Daily Star in terms of creditable writing.  Trying to pander to the whims of these hacks is insanity.  You will never make anything great by doing so, and just because you get high scores from said hacks doesn't mean what you made is great (see: ME2).

No other artist worth their salt in any other medium would ever pander to critics.  Would John Ford, Alfred hitchcock or Orson Welles ever take lessons from critics about how to make a film?  Would The Beatles, Bob Dylan or The Beach Boys ever be school by critics on how to write music?  No, they are the people who do the schooling.  They are the people who's influence ripples through times, who's work stands the test of the time.  Critics gave Vertigo bad reviews when it came out.  Where the hell are those reviewers now?  Gone.  Not remembered. Nobodies.  While Vertigo stands up as one of the greatest films of all time.

BioWare are acting like school children in the field they are supposedly the masters at.  

[Arppis]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

 He says they were expecting better reviews, and will be going through the reviews and fan feedback seeing what worked and what didn't.

What else is there to say? I'm glad there's at least acknowledgement of the fact that the response was... chillier, than expected.

I just hope that the conclusions they draw won't be:

1) more streamlining!
2) multiplayer!
3) more action, less RPG!

I hope this too, I like DA2 a lot. But I do hope this won't be the case in th next game, too much combat can break the game (and by RPG I do mean character development and creating the persona of the character, not some dice rolling in strategy game).

[Tellervo]

ragnaven wrote...

Okay just had to be a lore monkey here, Rivaini last I checked has some of it currently occupied territory of the Qunari, so not so alien. Maybe a Rivaini attempting to free part of his country from the Qunari would have been nice though. Could have a nice, got captured and taken to par vollen frame break in there.

Some, not all, there is a lot of Qunari influence so perhaps not the best example.  Still, it would be a good way to frame introducing the Qunari culture properly in their own lands--perhaps the leader of a rebellion captured and brought back as a prisoner who earned some honor under the Qun somehow and so has a chance to reconcile the problems through a mix of force and politics?  That would be a much better "Champion" type story, IMO.

[Marbazoid]

WilliamShatner wrote...

snip

This quote almost makes me throw up.

Game reviewers are generally blow The Sun or Daily Star in terms of creditable writing.  Trying to pander to the whims of these hacks is insanity.  You will never make anything great by doing so, and just because you get high scores from said hacks doesn't mean what you made is great (see: ME2).

No other artist worth their salt in any other medium would ever pander to critics.  Would John Ford, Alfred hitchcock or Orson Welles ever take lessons from critics about how to make a film?  Would The Beatles, Bob Dylan or The Beach Boys ever be school by critics on how to write music?  No, they are the people who do the schooling.  They are the people who's influence ripples through times, who's work stands the test of the time.  Critics gave Vertigo bad reviews when it came out.  Where the hell are those reviewers now?  Gone.  Not remembered. Nobodies.  While Vertigo stands up as one of the greatest films of all time.

BioWare are acting like school children in the field they are supposedly the masters at.  

Truer words have never been spoken. Why the game industry panders to critics and takes note of metacritic scores so religiously is perplexing.

Modifié par Marbazoid, 11 mars 2011 - 02:33 .

[Rockpopple]

 What exactly did Mike say that's so offensive to you?

You people are what's wrong with... basically genre in general. 

[Flunkorg]

keyip wrote...

Malja wrote...

It makes me feel uncomfortable honestly. I can't figure out why. Their map spamming was... his explaining for that left me a bit mystified. Does artfully mean putting a cave map where you enter a cave or something? It wasn't too terrible, but it was undeniably saddening. So any acknowledgement, I suppose, is good.

Artfully probably meant 'not nearly as crappy as when we did it in ME1'.

Well, to be fair to da2, it does that better then what me1 did xD

Yet I still spent hundreds over hundreds of hours playing that game

[Ebenezer]

Marbazoid wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

snip

This quote almost makes me throw up.

Game reviewers are generally blow The Sun or Daily Star in terms of creditable writing.  Trying to pander to the whims of these hacks is insanity.  You will never make anything great by doing so, and just because you get high scores from said hacks doesn't mean what you made is great (see: ME2).

No other artist worth their salt in any other medium would ever pander to critics.  Would John Ford, Alfred hitchcock or Orson Welles ever take lessons from critics about how to make a film?  Would The Beatles, Bob Dylan or The Beach Boys ever be school by critics on how to write music?  No, they are the people who do the schooling.  They are the people who's influence ripples through times, who's work stands the test of the time.  Critics gave Vertigo bad reviews when it came out.  Where the hell are those reviewers now?  Gone.  Not remembered. Nobodies.  While Vertigo stands up as one of the greatest films of all time.

BioWare are acting like school children in the field they are supposedly the masters at.  

Truer words have never been spoken. Why the game industry panders to critics and takes note of metacritic scores so religiously is perplexing.

I pointed this out in another long buried thread but it goes a bit with what you you said and it's really mind blowing to me.

OXM, the Official XBox magazine, just last night when all the bad consumer reviews and bad PR from the banning incident was gaining steam (I dont think it has hit its peak yet) posted an article on its site about how DA2 is rushed.

Now I've been gaming since the 2600.  I had a Tandy to game on.  I''ve been a gamer a loooong time.  Never have I seen anything like that.  Never have I seen a platform where a major title is being sold in its first week publicly say that a game was rushed during it's initial release period when they would generally be silent and let the money slip in.

That to me is a more telling sign (not that playing the flawed game for myself wasnt enough) than anything else, more than any review on some review site or nonaffiliated gaming centric site, that this games flaws are so painfully obvious that theres no way to recommend it and not damage your reputation.  Had they said "This game is great get it for 360 today!" people would have said "Huh? What are you smoking?"  Instead they took the only real route they have, they called a spade a spade.  They called a bad game a bad game because it's a bad game and doing anything else would have made them look bad.

When the platform you release on is panning a major release in it's first week something is blatantly obviously wrong with the game.

I've never seen that happen before.  Props to MS for not schilling out marketing speak and promoting the game as great when it clearly isnt.

That relates IMO to your comment because if Bioware is taking critic reviews into account, I hope they take the criticism of the platform they release the game on a bit more seriously.

Really, take a moment to think about how significant that actually is.  It's pretty major.  Here's the link

http://www.oxm.co.uk...job-ea-bioware/

Modifié par Ebenezer, 11 mars 2011 - 02:50 .

[Massefeckt]

"We knew it carried some elements of risk. Some people are reacting to
that, and it's fine - it's actually good. I'd much rather make a game
that challenges people and doesn't just rest on its laurels."


Disappointing people isn't challenging them.


"It boils down to a game that challenges a fair amount of convention: it
doesn't tell the usual fantasy story or present the usual fantasy
combat, and in doing so it does run the risk of someone going, "Wow,
this is just too different and I cannot handle it."


More marketing speak with "Challenging" you aren't challenging anything by dumbing it down and cutting things out so you can replace them later with DLC.

"Really what we wanted to do with the game, just talking about
first-principles, was to look at elements of Origins that were over
complex and needlessly so and see if we could pull those out in a clean
way and didn't take out what I always saw as core elements of the
experience: strong, character-driven stories, and the idea that the
combat should be a party working together, especially at higher
difficulty levels."

Wow talk about missing out why the first game was so successful. The things you cut out like character building, interaction with your group and so on are why the first was so good. As for character driven story, where, you sit around doing nothing but boring side quests for the first five hours of the game and skip years at a time in the story. Hardly character driven.

Pretty wishy washy interview skating over the main issues but you can't expect much else. The comments about tryingto appeal to those that didn't like the game more than those that did sum up things very well. They don't want the Origins crowd, we aren't important to them.

[Pixieking]

flushfire wrote...

He was very diplomatic, while at the same time honest. I mean really, what do you all expect him to say?

Well you have to admit, it does hurt a bit when he lets out what he thinks of gamers' level of intelligence.

We will most likely attempt to address common criticisms and complaints in the next installment.

which means the game was not welcoming enough so the complexity that was left out should be streamlined further unfortunately.

See, there's a difference here. I read that and thought "Okay. So they might streamline it more, or they might make it more complex." Because, truthfully, you don't know that they're going to streamline it further. You fear it'll be dumbed down more, sure. But he doesn't say that. And the more people jump up and down and get angry about something he didn't actually say, the more they can dismiss that segment of the population. Act like a dumb and crazy paranoid nut, and they'll treat you like one.

[Pixieking]

pezit wrote...

I complain a lot about DA2 but i really can't see how he screwed up in this interview or made it worse. I mean do you want him to say that he think they failed? That would absolutely ruin their sales and he would get fired in a second.

This. He's a company man. But he's already laying the ground work to say, in 6 months time "We screwed DA2 up. DA3 will be better." But there's no way anyone would say that now, and still expect to keep their job. It's just been released in the UK, and whilst it's one thing for games magazines to pan it, you are never going to see a company man pan his own product on day of release.

Keeping that in mind, it's a fair interview.

[HyperLimited]

chosef wrote...

"the re-use of the levels is something we knew was a bit of a risk, but we wanted to make sure there was more content rather than less, so re-using some of the spaces and coming to them again was certainly one we were careful about and tried to re-use as artfully as we could"

He is kidding right? That interview has to be fake. "We artfully moved a crate... slightly - ENJOY YOUR VARIETY"

QFT.