203 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

gecos wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

To OP, Yeah that's the reason why some people are mad, because abandon of old school RPG.

Of course that is not reason to say that game is failure. Because it could even be excelent game without the Old school RPG. So, been mad doesn't justify bad behavior.

Complexity sake of complexity isn't any better than simplifying sake of simplifying. Every feature should exist for purpose, not just fill empty space, so that it gives illusion of complexity. To really have a choise, the choises has to be about equal ways wanted and have meaning.

Let's have just one example, the inventory system. According to you, it was so complex, so bad looking and so ankward that it had to be dropped for this modern, even futuristic new one which also happens to be very simple. Of course, it had nothing to do with saving time and consequently money, it's just that those "old timers" that enjoy cRPGs don't get it that it's now 2011.

WTF are you talking?

I haven't even played DA2 or buyed it, not even sure if I will buyed it for while. DAO inventory? It was okey for traditional RPG, not perfect, but okey. Why you asking inventory stuff from me?

[Bhav]

keyip wrote...

DarkAngel1979 wrote...

Every time I see 'old school', my mind automatically translates it to 'obsolete'. Which is what it is. People need to stop wanting to replay the same game over and over with just a cosmetic change on the companions and locations.

True, old school rpgs needed a great investment in time. The older I get the more I appreciate games you can just pick up and play. 4 years ago I never thought I'd say such a thing, but there you go.

Bethesda do that best. Complete the main plot in around 30 hours, or spend hundreds of hours exploring the world and doing all the side quests.

Whats wrong with having more content? I would rather have a top quality RPG with 300 hours worth of content even if I only play 50 hours of it, rather than have a linear hack and slash game that only lasts 30 hours with nothing more left to do after that. 

Theres also nothing old school about all the recent deep and massive MMORPGs with huge worlds to explore and plenty to do. Just how well do you think DA2 would do if it was a 30 hour long MMORPG? 

Modifié par Bhav, 11 mars 2011 - 02:01 .

[Gamejudge]

Great post, the only comment I have is that you left out how combat is not at all tactical (which its marketed to be) because of the wave mechanic.

Also just a technical thing, but because there is no ability to create your own character, background, ending it is not an rpg. It is an action adventure game. A hack and slash action adventure game at that.

[Gamejudge]

double post, sorry.

Modifié par Gamejudge, 11 mars 2011 - 02:05 .

[Ascorius]

DarkAngel1979 wrote...

Every time I see 'old school', my mind automatically translates it to 'obsolete'. Which is what it is. People need to stop wanting to replay the same game over and over with just a cosmetic change on the companions and locations.

Heh, its not like DA2 is very modern. The combat is hack and slash (made to look like a god of war game) which is just as old school as crpg combat. The storytelling is not modern at all, if you want a modern twist on storytelling look at Heavy Rain. The conversation wheel isnt modern, its just there as a false sense of choice (most of the time your choices will not affect the outcome, and the "direction" you choose for your answer will have very little to do with the text choice you took).

Just because the devs like to use the buzzword "streamlining", people need to stop falling for it. More than often it just means they simplified it.

[brownxiii]

I love the fact that story is not epic anymore. I do not understand the foolish children fantasy of everyone to save the world from a menace. Enough games have been made around that. Bioware wanted to be creative, bring about something new, and I think it is great. Rather than saving the world. we are trying to get on with out lives. That is how the world is today. Nobody is trying to save the world from an evil emperor. People are trying to earn more $$ and live more happily (hopefully). This is more of an adult fantasy game.
Dragon Age: Origins, in my opinion, was so boring. It was extremely linear. You could decide who the king could be, who to save, but you had to do those things one way or another.

**DAO Spoilers here**
If, for example, you were not a mage, and you killed all the mages in the tower, including Wynne, you would be left with only Morrigan for the rest of the story. Now, that choice of not saving the mages was a choice between being utterly stupid and being reasonable. So, really, it was not much of a choice.
**DAO Spoiler ended**

So I think the fact that DA2 giving us reasonable choices makes the game much better than DAO in my opinion.

Modifié par brownxiii, 11 mars 2011 - 02:36 .

[brownxiii]

Gamejudge wrote...

Great post, the only comment I have is that you left out how combat is not at all tactical (which its marketed to be) because of the wave mechanic.

Also just a technical thing, but because there is no ability to create your own character, background, ending it is not an rpg. It is an action adventure game. A hack and slash action adventure game at that.

So, in Dragon Age: Origins, you chose an origin, but you family, your society, your place among them would be already created for you. There is a choice of 6, but really, it is not custom at all. You choose from 6 choices, and that is not creating your background. So, does that mean DAO was not an RPG either? Oh, and in the end you end the Blight. The ending is not your creation either in DAO.

I mean, a level of creating a story for a character is important. You can customize how he reacts, but not who his family is. In that manner, I do not find it different from DAO at all. Just because we cannot be a dwarf or elf does not make this game out of options.

[pezit]

I completely agree with the TS. The reason DA:O sold so well was also because of this reason, it tried to keep the feel of those old school games and even if it wasn't perfect it was a good game.

[Catalyst38]

And I just thought that is was because most the people complaining about the game had only read reviews of nerd rage and never played the game itself for more then 10min.

[psychk]

 DA2 is to RPGs what Justin Bieber is to the music industry.

[Lusitanum]

psychk wrote...

 DA2 is to RPGs what Justin Bieber is to the music industry.

Cheap Justin Bieber criticism is the reason why I even know that guy even exists, thanks a lot for that.

Also, could you please try to elaborate just little bit next time, instead of just using a cliched insult? Maybe you'd contribute something to whatever is being discussed.

[Ronny Rosco]

I have to say, I'm not too disappointed in the game, It's great it has a lot of good combat and a cool story bro, but, It was a bit recycled, not enough environments or variety within story. Origins had so much variety, with the races which all had their particular story (beginning and end particularly) which was awesome, it had a lot of replay value. With this game the story doesn't have that much variety which takes away most of the role-playing, and most importantly replay value. I think the interaction with your teammates conversation wise was a little dimmed down, They should have let us keep the option of us talking to them and asking them questions about their background story and have them tell us interesting anecdotes. So far those are my comments in the game, I don't hate the game I enjoyed it a lot, it's just not complete. Also I'm not sure but I think it is a direct sequel probably these events lead on to future sequels, an important story of a bigger plot.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Lusitanum wrote...

psychk wrote...

 DA2 is to RPGs what Justin Bieber is to the music industry.

Cheap Justin Bieber criticism is the reason why I even know that guy even exists, thanks a lot for that.

Also, could you please try to elaborate just little bit next time, instead of just using a cliched insult? Maybe you'd contribute something to whatever is being discussed.

Hawke, both male and female, is voiced by Justin Bieber, isn't it obvious?

Sorry, I just had to. Actually the voice acting is good from what I have seen.

[Flunkorg]

silver-crescent wrote...

The way I see it, DA2 hate on the forums can probably be divided into:
60% - people pissed it's not a DA:O clone (a lot of which could probably have been avoided if they'd just called the game Dragon Age: something, instead of making it sound like it's an actual direct sequel)
20% - PC gamers annoyed it is too much console-y (DA:O sold more on consoles so it's not exactly surprising they'd do this)
20% - valid, unbiased complaints about its quality as a game (recycled environments, etc)

You basicaly nailed it right there xD

[SamimaS]

I prefered the speed of the first, as well as the companions and story! Its just not that fun doing hours on end of side quests just to continue the story. I liked the fact I could split up quests in the first with the various story missions!

[brownxiii]

17thknight wrote...

vhatever wrote...

Charater creation-- even old school RPGs most times forced you to play a specfici character, not make up your own race/etc. Mostlyjust picked class-- or didn't pick anything.

That's not true, games that let you make your own character:
Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2, Icewinde Dale, Icewind Dale 2, the entire Might and Magic series, Fallout, Fallout 2, Temple of Elemental Evil, Aracanum, the entire D&D Gold and Silver series (I forget how many games there were), etc.

Yeah, on consoles you're forced to play one guy, but the greatest PC RPG's always had a wide-array of choices for characters.

Yeah, like the all time favorite RPG "Planscape Torment", where you are just trying to find out your already written story! I mean, seriously, I am surprised people do not like DA2, considering Planescape Torment is considered one of the best story-driven RPG's around and the story is all about one character. You cannot even change your appearance or gender, let alone race in Torment.

[Giantdeathrobot]

The OP has a point, but the reason why I believe DA2 to be inferior to Origins, despite the better story, better combat (if you can get past the ridiculous animations) and better NPCs was because of it's own flaws, not what it was in comparison to the first game. The re-using of assets is painfully obvious and extremely amateurish (the worst was in that cave in the beginning where there be dragons, where passageways clearly marking entrance to new areas being covered by a convenient, ill-placed stone slab that magically dissapears later. Really?), some quests are too simple (bring X object back to Y person for 50 silver, how many times do I have to do that? but at least it's better than the friggin job boards of bring 20 potions to a guy) and did I mention the ridiculous animations for 2-handers and dual-wielding rogues (the rest is OK, and mages are now much better).

It just reeks of being rushed. They could have made something yet on par but different than Origins, however the end result is something that is both different (good) but sup-par (obviously bad).

[jds1bio]

psychk wrote...

 DA2 is to RPGs what Justin Bieber is to the music industry.

If this was true, then BioWare and EA would never need to listen to or moderate these boards.  And they would be too busy bathing in money to care about Metacritic scores.

If you don't like this game...then go play all the previous RPGs, they're available for a song now.  And if people think they've really lost old-school RPGS, then go to the bookstore or toy store, buy the D&D starter set, set up your Morgan Ironwolf character, and enjoy.  Nothing is stopping you, the world is your oyster.

[Ixalmaris]

tl;dr
DA2 is hated because it was made for twitch kiddies and not RPG gamers.

[Catalyst38]

I love RPGs it's all I really play da:o, mass effect, gothic1,2,3 (haven't played 4) BG, elder scrolls I mean the list goes on and I don't see much if a difference between this and them. So what you can't chose your race 10min after your origin story outside of some choice dialog here and there your race no longer mattered anyways.

[Catalyst38]

I love RPGs it's all I really play da:o, mass effect, gothic1,2,3 (haven't played 4) BG, elder scrolls I mean the list goes on and I don't see much if a difference between this and them. So what you can't chose your race 10min after your origin story outside of some choice dialog here and there your race no longer mattered anyways.

[Donkeycow]

Warlokki wrote...

Old School RPGs time is over... at least for now. Maybe they'll be fashionable laterm but ATM, they're not. Get over it.

That is a dirty filthy lie sir!  Origins sold over 4 million copies, an impressive feat for a brand new IP.  In fact, it did well enough that EA forced Bioware to make a shoddy sequel just to ride the popularity of the first game.

[SOULHASBEENSOLD]

“Have you sold your souls to the EA devil?”

[morgueanna]

I posted this in another thread. My perspective:

What's really ironic is that a lot of people (including myself) have been under the impression that they 'dumbed the game down for the masses' when in fact, they dumbed it down for the minority. Let me explain.

Again and again, Bioware reps have stated they did extensive research into the first game and discovered that some people bought the game and only got a few hours in. They've overwhelmingly used this as an excuse for the changes they've made. But those people are obviously the minority, considering the strength of DLC/expansion sales and usage. Let's look at it this way:

10 people play the game, and two don't get very far. Instead of Bioware talking to the 8 that loved the game, they pull the two over to the side and ask them what happened. While the remaining 8 are loving the game, paying for DLC content and supporting future releases through that, Bioware is making the sequel for the two idiots who just never caught on to the game.

Bioware, and EA, are under some weird assumption that if they can please the minority of people that didn't like the first one, that this will somehow translate into appealing to the masses. What they don't understand is...the masses don't enjoy niche games unless they're a niche gamer anyway.

No matter how dumbed down and slick the combat is, no matter how simplified the RPG elements are, this is still not a first person shooter. So they didn't appeal to the masses. And those two people who didn't finish the game remember they didn't like the first one...so they didn't buy the sequel. All they managed to do was anger those 8 fans who stood by them and financially supported the sequel to begin with.

Does that make sense?

[MajorStoffer]

The only thing that gets me genuinely irked with DA2 is the copy-paste dungeons.

While overall, I don't think the game took quite as many steps in the right direction as say, Mass Effect 2 took compared to 1, but the overall product is fairly well done, and I'm quite happy with the smaller-scale story. The voice acting is solid, the combat, while being a little over-stylized, is also reasonably well done, even if has lost some, but not all of, of the tactical elements in DA:O. What I've seen of the story so far is solid; I'm certainly enjoying the plot and characters.

What continues to break the immersion, however, is the 4/5 dungeons which are used for every single interior. One of my fondest memories of DA:O is you never really knew what the inside of that temple/cellar/keep would be like. The art styles were generally similar, but the actual layout was always diverse and had very well established "moods." It was my understanding that after ME1 recycled dungeons for sidequests, Bioware realized that those setups just weren't going to fly in the modern world, and were careful to avoid such maps for ME2. I just don't understand why a massive step backwards was taken here. Realistically, it shouldn't have been too hard to throw in a couple different dungeons, or if you're going to use the same art pattern, at least change the geography outside of a few arbitrarily blocked off passages.