17 réponses à ce sujet

[Baaleos]

Does anyone else think that Flemeth looks even more like Kate Mulgrew in her new make over?

In the first game, we were led to believe that Flemeth was evil, and needed to die...

Yet in Dragon Age 2, we see things from her point of view more, and can sympathize with her more...


She knew
         1. Darkspawn would be defeated by the warden.
         2. Morrigan would revolt against her - she took measures to ensure her own resurrection.
         3. That the Actions of the Champion of Kirkwall would result in the tumble of the chantry.
         4. She saved Hawke so number 3 could occur.
       

Perhaps Flemeths ambitions are more benevolent than one might originally think, all of these things contribute to 'Changing the World'.

Perhaps she strives for a world where Mages are not ruled or oppressed by Templars.


For a being so powerful, and being able to resurrect herself etc, a form of magic that I don't think has been explored in the Dragon Age series before,
She probably could have killed the Warden and Morrigan if she really wanted to, however she chose to let them kill her, knowing that she could return at a later date.
(Why would she let herself die?
Morrigan was with the Warden, and Flemeth probably wanted the Warden to succeed in killing the ArchDemon, if Morrigan was going to try and influence the Warden to kill Flemeth, Flemmy would only have 2 choices, Fight(Die), or Flee.... (But Morrigan would have insisted on following flemmy and killing her anyway)

And since Flemmy needed the Warden, in order to kill the ArchDemon, she had to pretty much play dead.

The Culmination of Flemeth's actions resulted in
1. ArchDemon Dead - Blight ended.
2. Revolt of the Mages against the Chantry.

Both of which, could arguably be seen as positive actions/intentions which would change Thedas for the better.

Does this make her an Anti-Hero?

[Minaach]

As Morrigan said, she is always after someone more powerful then her so she can take that body and continue to live on through her magic. Now there is a forum post about Flemeth where she might be the one taking the champion and warden for some bigger purpose.

Now personally I think she doesn't do anything without a huge reason or big event coming further in the game or series. She puts people in these situations as tests to measure who is the strongest, be it the warden or champion or whoever is going to be in DA III and so on and so forth.

To answer your last questions, yes and no. Yes because she helps both the warden and champion defeat the blight and topple the templars to free their respective areas from violence. No because she is evil in a way, she can't be entirely good if she wants to take morigann's body for her own.

[Syndria]

I'm of the school of thought that she may be a Tevinter Old God or magister lord.

[kght22]

Seems to me that i haven't heard anyone directly mention this. Does anyone else notice that Flemeth seems to be the primary constant through both games and the books. Always there to save the main character and give a cryptic message at just the right time. To me regardless of who or what she might be (although I think she must be one of the old gods) she is the one pulling all the strings that we are dancing to? Without her nothing in either the books or the games could have happened, or at the least it could never have happened in any remotely similar way, Without her in the first book, no King Maric, no King Calin. Without her in the first game, no Warden Commander, no Hero of Fereldan. Without her in the second game, no Champion of Kirkwall. Things like that lead me to conclude that she must be the most important character in the Thedas fiction.

Modifié par kght22, 02 juin 2011 - 12:05 .

[TEWR]

She's the Dumat OGB. and the Dumat OGB is Andraste. Meaning Flemeth is Andraste, the Dumat OGB.

[happy_daiz]

Now that's deep...

And I see that I really need to read codex entries better! :-)

[TEWR]

it makes sense really.

Flemeth knows about the OGB ritual.

Assuming I know my Thedas history, Andraste waged war against the Imperium 26 years after Dumat was slain, and by some accounts was a powerful mage.

Flemeth has something draconic about her.

Flemeth has said "Considering what the world has done to me, I have done more than enough".

Meh who knows. That's the theory Rifneno and I believe.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

She's the Dumat OGB. and the Dumat OGB is Andraste. Meaning Flemeth is Andraste, the Dumat OGB.

Well this is interesting.  I made the possible connection that she is Andraste and also a Trevinter Archon.  Never the two together, what I mean is one of the old gods.   So could Morrigan be an OGB herself?  Interesting theory to combine the two theories floating around.  I like the idea.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 04 juin 2011 - 03:30 .

[Melca36]

I actually think Morrigan is going to be the big bad and Flemeth is going to be the good character in DA: 3

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Melca36 wrote...

I actually think Morrigan is going to be the big bad and Flemeth is going to be the good character in DA: 3

I've considered this as well. 

I can also see Flemeth and Morrigan working together yet making us think otherwise.

[Kaiser Shepard]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

I actually think Morrigan is going to be the big bad and Flemeth is going to be the good character in DA: 3

I've considered this as well. 

I can also see Flemeth and Morrigan working together yet making us think otherwise.

Wouldn't make any sense, as the Warden had no reason to distrust Flemeth until Morrigan told him to. Morrigan's little scheme doesn't surpass the parameters of her mother's, though, so you could say that Morrigan is unknowingly still working for her.

[Wolfborn Son]

I still don't believe Flemeth is a benevolent character. I see her as something... Different. When you have lived thousands of years and potentially have knowledge beyond that of any other living being, I'd wager that you'd be above petty concerns like the mortal interpretation of good and evil.

Yes, she helped the Warden stop the Blight but didn't give any real advice on how to do it. She didn't care if (s)he saved the Circle or allowed the Rite of Annulment, broke the curse on the werewolves or slaughtered the Dalish, etc. The Warden could be a paragon of human (dwarven, elven) virtue - or a villain who is only hailed as a hero because he stopped Armageddon for his own selfish interests and let's a friend die in his place.

Hawke is similar. His actions may lead to the fall of the Chantry, sure. They could also lead to rebuilding it, more powerful than ever. Again, I don't think Flemeth cares; let the Magi and the Templar kill each other what does that matter to her?

I do believe that she has a greater purpose than she let's on. If the OGB becomes canon, maybe she wants to stop it from being born... Her previous daughters had all tried to perform the ritual Morrigan did and that's why their dead. If Sandal's prophecy refers to the OGB, maybe it "return of magic" isn't necessarily a good thing. After all, magic in Thedas, while not evil... is dangerous. Maybe its far darker than anyone realizes, behind the scenes.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Where did you get the information or how did you draw the conclusion that Flemeth killed the rest of her daughters for doing the ritual? That is a chasind tale and it doesn't mean that it is fully true that she even killed her daugthers. Morrigan tells you Flemeth is going to take possession of her body. Morrigan's child in doing the DR has also been confirmed by Morrigan herself to be a boy in the WH dlc.

If an Arch demon is necessary for the DR, because it has the soul of an Old God - Morrigan told us flat out that she needed it's soul for her child. I'd think that Flemeth then has only had four daughters by what you just said. According to Leliana, Flemeth had many, many daughters, not just four (per the old gods already risen before DAO). Leliana's bard tale could also be false. Because Morrigan tells it one way and Leliana tells it another way.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 05 juin 2011 - 12:35 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

I actually think Morrigan is going to be the big bad and Flemeth is going to be the good character in DA: 3

I've considered this as well. 

I can also see Flemeth and Morrigan working together yet making us think otherwise.

Wouldn't make any sense, as the Warden had no reason to distrust Flemeth until Morrigan told him to. Morrigan's little scheme doesn't surpass the parameters of her mother's, though, so you could say that Morrigan is unknowingly still working for her.

LOL, yes I guess we could say that.  Let me make another point.  Morrigan lied to the wardens all along and she made the request that her mother wanted her to do.  She offered the DR.  It's up to the warden to accept or not.  Thus she is still working for her mother right up to the end of DAO.

One thing in the legends/lore and something Morrigan told Leliana was that Morrigan was responsible at times in drawing chasind men to Flemeth.  Flemeth sent them to the Maker totally spent.  I hope you're catching my meaning here.  We've also learned in DA2 and I think it was also mentioned in the The Stolen Throne when Maric and Loghain come upon Flemeth in the Kocari Wilds that men were hanging dead in the trees.  Merrill tells us this was Flemeth who was doing this. 

Here is some gross food for thought, all of you male wardens who slept with Morrigan, what if it was Flemeth that you actually sleep with?   

[Searska]

Morrigan also isn't very sure about how many daughters Flemmeth actually had. Despite the "many daughters" myth, Morrigan never met another of Flemmth's supposed offspring. The whole "real grimoire" that the Warden picks up may be a feint within a feint, a way of tricking Morrigan into carrying the OGB. Such a mind f*ck doesn't seem wholly out of character for Flemmeth...

[Kaiser Shepard]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...
Here is some gross food for thought, all of you male wardens who slept with Morrigan, what if it was Flemeth that you actually sleep with?   

You say that as if it's a bad thing.

[spamerooski]

I think Flemeth is the real manifestation of the being the Dalish see as their trickster god. I think it was FalonDin... The "dread wolf" iirc. If you read the codex entries on Dalish lore, you can start to see parallels with Chantry/Tevinter lore, so that it seems they could all be mythologies based on a common ancestor. Whatever that is, it was the series of events responsible for the darkspawn taint. Chantry/Tevinter explain it as mages entering the golden city and fouling it, producing darkspawn taint in them. Dalish describe a rivalry between two favtions of gods, which resulted in impisonment of the good gods underground and the evil ones in the fade. They say both sides were screwed by the trickster god, because no one could understand its motives.

If there is reason to belive Flemeth is a more important character in Thedas history disguised in her current form (which there is generally agreed to be), then I think the only chatacter revealed in the lore so far that fits is the Dread Wolf.

[gungho95]

My thought process she might be trying to bring the Old Gods back as they originally were. The Maker de-throned them, and imprisoned them, then the Teventer Mages come along into his precious city and he boots them turning them into darkspawn. Darkspawn corrupt every Old God they find making them monsters. Now Morrigan is running around with an Old God's soul uncorrupted by the Darkspawn, but its going to have some obvious connection to them thanks to the Warden. Morrigan hinted that it was Flemmys plan to do this all along, but Morrigan threw what she thought was a monkey wrench into her plan by trying to kill her and running off with it.