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[Ocedic]

Here are my suggestions to the developers for DA3 from a player's perspective, others feel free to add your own.

Story
Whether you like DA1 or DA2 story more, there's no question that they're different.  DA1 focuses on a more concrete goal, more locations and fleshing out the world, whereas DA2 is more focused, but goes for a rags to riches tale of a mere refuge who becomes one of the powerful people on the continent.

So which is "better?"  You can argue either, but the varied responses clearly show it's subjective.  The best solution would be a hybrid of the two.  Make a sprawling story that has a clear goal and consistent threat, yet have a place of foundation that evolves and you become a part of. 

Character Customization
Well, I think a lot of people were upset that you were confined to a human in this game.  Creating origin stories for every single race is a lot of work, so perhaps find a way to have a universal start for all 3 races (or shorten origin stories to only be slightly different.)  I do think that it was an aspect of the game that was sorely missing from the first DA.

Companions not being able to wear other armor was nothing short of baffling.  I get the impression it was intended to streamline and simplify equipment, but I was completely confused when I tried to equip armor to my companions but found out I couldn't.  Honestly, this change should be reverted.  However, I do like character-specific skills and attributes that differentiate companions in combat beyond just being different classes.  Perhaps this can be applied to armor in some way.  Dog in DA:O could wear collars and Shale had his own unique equipment set, as an example.  Maybe one unique slot per character that flesh out their unique style.

Combat
Some people like the new combat, some hate it.  Personally, I found it faster paced and more fun, but playing on Normal it was very easy and took very little strategy outside of a few select fights.  The boss fights were well done.  One major headache was the behind the character view made it hard to issue orders such as telling a character to move to higher elevation.

Honestly I think DA2's combat system is more appealing to more people, the fights just need to be harder and require more tactical use of abilities and positioning.

Content
Okay so there is no getting around that DA2 is shorter than DA1.  That in itself isn't a big deal, but the content is also presented in more streamlined fashion.  I felt DA1 had dungeons that were a bit too tedious and sprawling, but at the same time in DA2 there is basically no incentive for exploration.  Honestly, other games get criticized for artificially extending game length by making dungeons too long and tedious, but in Dragon Age it feels much more epic when your dungeon is, well, epic.

I was expecting the Deep Roads to be much more hostile, but it honestly was a walk in the park.  Ultimately, you need to do more with less.  You can afford to stretch your zones out a little more.  This should be an RPG, not an action game.  DA2 is trying to appease people who want instant gratification, but that is not the type of person who plays Dragon Age to begin with.

Other Thoughts
Though having returning characters and cameo appearances is cool, I dislike that so many companions were seen before, even if they were in more minor roles.  Though I felt in DA2 the overall cast was fleshed out better (beyond Alistair, Morrigan and Shale I didn't care about anyone in DA:O) I felt the variety was weaker.  Also, choosing only 3 companions to be with you at all times is a bit annoying with a large cast.  Consider expanding to a party of 5 (including the main char) in DA3.

I like the streamlined stats and skill trees, but they aren't deep enough.  I played a mage and basically maxed out everything I wanted and started taking junk points around level 15 (ended at level 21.)  The trees themselves should be a little bigger and the early skills/passives a bit more attractive to truly give the player choice even into the mid/end game.

Overall I enjoyed DA2, loved DA1, and feel that DA2 could have used some more time in the oven.  Please don't continue the short development cycle, as it's clear that the area you are cutting corners on is content as a result.  Honestly, stop improving the technology/graphics/whatever and just focus on making a long, epic and well written story.

[Annarl]

Ocedic wrote...

Here are my suggestions to the developers for DA3 from a player's perspective, others feel free to add your own.

Story
Whether you like DA1 or DA2 story more, there's no question that they're different.  DA1 focuses on a more concrete goal, more locations and fleshing out the world, whereas DA2 is more focused, but goes for a rags to riches tale of a mere refuge who becomes one of the powerful people on the continent.

So which is "better?"  You can argue either, but the varied responses clearly show it's subjective.  The best solution would be a hybrid of the two.  Make a sprawling story that has a clear goal and consistent threat, yet have a place of foundation that evolves and you become a part of. 

Character Customization
Well, I think a lot of people were upset that you were confined to a human in this game.  Creating origin stories for every single race is a lot of work, so perhaps find a way to have a universal start for all 3 races (or shorten origin stories to only be slightly different.)  I do think that it was an aspect of the game that was sorely missing from the first DA.

Companions not being able to wear other armor was nothing short of baffling.  I get the impression it was intended to streamline and simplify equipment, but I was completely confused when I tried to equip armor to my companions but found out I couldn't.  Honestly, this change should be reverted.  However, I do like character-specific skills and attributes that differentiate companions in combat beyond just being different classes.  Perhaps this can be applied to armor in some way.  Dog in DA:O could wear collars and Shale had his own unique equipment set, as an example.  Maybe one unique slot per character that flesh out their unique style.

Combat
Some people like the new combat, some hate it.  Personally, I found it faster paced and more fun, but playing on Normal it was very easy and took very little strategy outside of a few select fights.  The boss fights were well done.  One major headache was the behind the character view made it hard to issue orders such as telling a character to move to higher elevation.

Honestly I think DA2's combat system is more appealing to more people, the fights just need to be harder and require more tactical use of abilities and positioning.

Content
Okay so there is no getting around that DA2 is shorter than DA1.  That in itself isn't a big deal, but the content is also presented in more streamlined fashion.  I felt DA1 had dungeons that were a bit too tedious and sprawling, but at the same time in DA2 there is basically no incentive for exploration.  Honestly, other games get criticized for artificially extending game length by making dungeons too long and tedious, but in Dragon Age it feels much more epic when your dungeon is, well, epic.

I was expecting the Deep Roads to be much more hostile, but it honestly was a walk in the park.  Ultimately, you need to do more with less.  You can afford to stretch your zones out a little more.  This should be an RPG, not an action game.  DA2 is trying to appease people who want instant gratification, but that is not the type of person who plays Dragon Age to begin with.

Other Thoughts
Though having returning characters and cameo appearances is cool, I dislike that so many companions were seen before, even if they were in more minor roles.  Though I felt in DA2 the overall cast was fleshed out better (beyond Alistair, Morrigan and Shale I didn't care about anyone in DA:O) I felt the variety was weaker.  Also, choosing only 3 companions to be with you at all times is a bit annoying with a large cast.  Consider expanding to a party of 5 (including the main char) in DA3.

I like the streamlined stats and skill trees, but they aren't deep enough.  I played a mage and basically maxed out everything I wanted and started taking junk points around level 15 (ended at level 21.)  The trees themselves should be a little bigger and the early skills/passives a bit more attractive to truly give the player choice even into the mid/end game.

Overall I enjoyed DA2, loved DA1, and feel that DA2 could have used some more time in the oven.  Please don't continue the short development cycle, as it's clear that the area you are cutting corners on is content as a result.  Honestly, stop improving the technology/graphics/whatever and just focus on making a long, epic and well written story.

I agree with a lot of your suggestions well except for the origins part.  I didn't mind that.  It suited the story.  For me my best suggestion would be more conversations with your followers (like Origins) getting to know your companions made the game much more immersive for me. Being able to stop and chat(or kiss^_^) to them on the road was fun.  The companions in DA2 were nice but I didn't care or know them as well as I did the ones in DA:O.

[Ocedic]

Ah, yes, I forgot about that. That was a big one, and a lot of people have mentioned it. I suppose I poorly worded what I meant about Origin stories. I think they are unneeded to the level that they were in DA:O, just that being able to play as different races would be nice. It definitely made your character feel more unique in DA:O, though I can see how sacrificing it for the sake of other content could be a good idea, since ultimately your race matters little beyond aesthetics.

[Lawlita]

Lots of good points. I don't miss intimidate/coerce with NPCs, but I did the social aspect of camp, as well as the more general engagements in dialogue with the companions as omearaee mentions.

[Sinvx]

I found the story in DA2 be refreshing, since DA:O story has been done to death. It was great, but pick up any fantasy book, and yeah... You'll have the DA:O story, but with different names for things. DA2 story was new to me, wasn't simply about killing this great evil, and the world is safe again.

DA2 story was about rise to power, then triggering events that would lead to chaos throughout Thedas. The Qunari saying they'll be back, the mages fighting for their Freedom, Templars fear mongering and trying destroy the mages. It was more interesting to me.

As to Companions, I was fine with the no armor deal. In DA:O your companions would wear the same gear practically, just different shades of purple and white.

Combat was more fun, and I found myself pausing, and issuing commands more so then I did in DA:O.

Content, I somewhat agree, DA2 could of definitely could of done better, the recycling of caves and stuff gave it a tedious feel. Though in some cases, depending on which entrance you use, depends on which part of the cave you enter, which I thought was cool, but when you the same cave set up for 4 separate locations it gets ridiculous.

I did like the DA2 cast as well, a lot complain they don't compare to DA:O, but I disagree. Varric was simply amazing, Anders quickly grew on me, and Aveline too. Spite what people say about Bethany, I liked her, played with Carver first, and did not like him, was such a dick, always blaming our problems on me for being a mage. Merrill was also a pretty good companion, can't say much about Fenris and Isabella though.

[phoenixds24]

I think the biggest thing that annoyed me about combat wasn't necessarily that it was more fast-paced--I liked that, though I thought it moved a touch too fast--it was the fact that enemies popped up out of nowhere, or from areas you've already cleared. It made positioning a little tenuous at times, and I really disliked the fact that I'd have a perfect set-piece going when bad guys would suddenly jump my mages and archers from thin air.

The recycling of areas wouldn't have been so bad--they did they same thing in DAO, in fact--except that since you did most of your questing in Kirkwall, it was more noticeable. With DAO, there were several other expansive questing areas.

[Raiil]

I really like the idea of the Origins being streamlined into one general area, like you could be a dwarf merchant, Elvish dock worker, or human refugee or something in Orlais. I honestly didn't mind having a human only origin in DA2, but I hope we get some wiggle room in the next one. Personally I'm pretty attached to being a human fem mage, but I can see where people have their preferences.

[Mifune013]

I would love to see them go back to different races and backgrounds. Also, it would be cool to play as a Tal'vashoth who was raised as a Tal'vashoth and outside the influence of the Qun. Maybe even have his home destroyed by the Qunari.

The biggest problem I can see with doing the multiple origins thing though is the number of voice tracks they'll need to add (though there are tricks around this).

It would be pretty interesting if they set DA3 in the Tevinter Imperium. Maybe even have a war between the Orlaisians and the Imperium. (Oooo...a background that places you as a human mercenary.)

Modifié par Mifune013, 11 mars 2011 - 05:20 .

[berelinde]

Please bring back player-initiated dialogue. DA2 introduced the idea that NPCs have homes of their own, and I love sending my PC around visiting them, but when I get there, they have nothing to say. Can Anders really not take a 2 minute break so the PC can give him a hug? Can Merrill stop her compulsive tidying long enough to sit down for a cup of tea with the PC?

This would not add much work for anyone while making the game. I can write and code player-initiated dialogue for an NPC in 3 evenings after work. A full time writer could probably crank out PID for one NPC a day, at least. With 7 NPCs, that's only a week and a half. It really would add so much enjoyment for the player.

[DarthSliver]

I do agree with the OP on this, but I want to add they need to make it for 4 races. I do wanna be Qunari instead of Human, Dwarf, or Elf. I just think a Qunari protagonist would be awesome lol, i feel a liking towards them.
But I do think that whoever the protagonist is, they should meet up with our Warden and Hawke later in the game. Its just giving a voice over to the Warden that might be a problem Its feels right that in DA3 the protagonist will set out to find them.

[Mifune013]

An actual Qunari protagonist wouldn't really work. Their culture is far to alien to what we're use to. It's why I suggestion a Tal'vashoth protagonist. That way you are the same race as the Qunari but are more identifiable to the audience.

Could have it that the Warden never talks. "Oooo, the strong silent type. Or are you one of those angst heroes I keep hearing about?"

[Beriks]

I'd like some unique class specific changes, it could be the possibility to stealth certain quests if playing a rogue, or influence minds if playing a mage and the warrior could then be the slaugther house (can't come up with anything else atm). These stealth missions or mind trick missions should ofc. result in the same amount of experience as doing it the high way and they should be possible through the right build of character. Now this should ofc. be specific quests, not the whole game, and should be a choice by the player to do it in one way or the other. a bonus could be that the outcome would be different. The Prison break in DA:O kind of did this, but could be improved imo.

Another thing I'd like was the possibility to invest the money you gather - in castles, shops, industires or just hiring henchmen to do your dirty work. Something that has been kind of used (Vigils keep, Bone... Mine), but not fully imo. This could be instead of collecting all sorts of junk items that goes straight to junk-inventory and from there to vendor anyways. In that way the PC could make gold from other things than killing/looting and rewards.

Some times I get a bit tired of constantly having to control and position the NPC's in more advanced combat situations to save them from certain death, so something refreshing like solo questst would be kind of nice I think - Now I know that I could always just leave the NPC's at "Camp", but I like the thought that the PC's needs help and isn't all powerful.

Well just a few thoughts

[ourimaler]

 To me, the story is the most important part. It doesn't have to be epic, but there needs to be a feeling of accomplishment. Even if my character only acts within a single city, I need to see my choices matter, I need to see that my actions make the world around me better or worse - like in Origins (...or Mass Effect, or Jade Empire, or Neverwinter Nights, or...). In short, I need my character to NOT be an ineffectual chump like Hawke was.


Anything else is secondary. I was fine with not controlling companion armor, for one; I would love to deal more with elves and with dwarven society...

[embrace eternity]

4) the inventory control from DA Origins
3) the combat and PC dialog interface of DA II
2) the Mirror of Correcting Character Creator mistakes from the Black Emporium (DAII)
1) RIDE-ABLE GRIFFONS!

[Auroras]

Ocedic wrote...
Dog in DA:O could wear collars and Shale had her own unique equipment set, as an example.  

Fixed. 

[Darth Krytie]

The most important things to me are:

1. I don't mind reusing environments, though not so much as in DA2, but at least alter the guide map thing to block off areas you can't go into it. That would have made a lot of difference to me. Only have locations you can actually get into for whatever particular quest you're on...

2. I really want to be able to check out my companions armor/influence/etc somewhere without having to take them out party at a time.

3. I want to have more branches. Like...if you're a mage, you get a mage only quest. Or something along those lines. I would like a bash lock/magic lock spell/ even at the risk of damaging items if you don't use a rogue. I hate not being able to open everything, depending on my class.

4. I like different races and starting points, even if it's as simple as what Bioware did on the Leviathan in KOTOR. Something to add to replayability. I want to play as each class and/or race and see at least one thing I hadn't before.

5. Story. I liked both Origins and DA2 story. (Though, I think you guys would have been better served if you called DA2 DA:Kirkwall. It kinda changes expectations in that one difference) I do like having some sort of agency as a player...To play one way or another...and have a different outcome, perhaps.

I don't know if it's possible, but I do like reactive quests. I would like a choice here to actually have a in-game impact on what happens. If you kill x character, you're not welcome in y area. Or you have a bad reception. Something like that to show that the world around you actively acknowledges stuff you've done or not done.

I like the idea of rotating companion armour--sort of like ME2. Only, I'd like for it to be more than aesthetics.

For companion dialogue...I don't mind having hubs and set convos and areas to have them in...I would like, however, maybe a few lines you can trigger at any point in the game. Like a specific line of inquiry not tied to a quest. That you can trigger after x minutes playtime. And, I want the return of hug/kisses/snuggle with the LI, even if it's just being able to trigger the same cut scene whenever.

Added to that, I want more clutter in my home. Something to show it's lived in. Or perhaps you can buy stuff for it. I know it's kinda pointless, but maybe I want to buy an ugly Orlesian vase for Hawke's mansion. Or a statue of an Ogre. A few touches like that would make a huge difference to me.

PS. I would adore a paragon/renegade interrupt type thing...I would have loved the chance to kill the Magistrate's son while he was rambling with my murder knife.

Modifié par Darth Krytie, 17 août 2011 - 01:51 .