160 réponses à ce sujet

[tetracycloide]

m14567 wrote...
Is affliction hex + inferno greater than inferno + tempest against undead?

Yes it is, much more damage.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the mana efficeny of the spell, the limiting factor on mage DPS has always been cooldowns, not mana, and affliciton hex lets a mage get the most out of each cooldown.  Early in the game, yes mana is an issue, but after the first treaty there's plenty of lyrium and lyrium potions to spare.

[tetracycloide]

I don't really care what spells you cast in game and that's never been what this is about. I don't like inaccurate information on a gameplay boar masqurading as sage advice. You presented a hypothosis to the community, it was wrong, and it was corrected. What you do with the knowledge is irrelevent and inconsequential.

[Bratinov]

Must try all of them to make a top 5
I'm yet to test all spells but from my experience so far:
I’m not taking into account spell combos just the usefulness of single spells
 
Garbage: 
Flame Blast
Mana Drain
Mana Cleanse (does this even work?)
Arcane Bolt
Chain Lightning
Weakness
Lightning
Disorient
Sleep
Shapeshifter class  (why does this exist?)
 
Good:
Fireball
Heal (makes it into “Good” just barely)
Regeneration
Crushing Prison
Horror/paralysis
Shock
Winter's Grasp
Spell Shield
Mass Paralysis (long cast time ruins it)
Blood Magic
Blood Control
Blizzard
waking nightmare
Templar “Spells” are nice
 
Amazing:
Force Field (was the best spell in the game pre nerf)
Group Heal
Lifeward
Death Hex
Misdirection Hex
Blood Wound
Revival
Mana Clash (the cheapest of them all, almost worth all the garbage necessary to get it)
Mind Blast (because it’s easy to get and essential)
Winter's Breath

Modifié par Bratinov, 11 janvier 2010 - 04:40 .

[Creature 1]

Only the good ones, no combos (because that's more than one spell, right?)



1. Blood Wound. Like Blizzard but more effective, and doesn't hit your friends!

2. Mana Clash: One shot many mages.

3. Glyph of Repulsion: I love watching people bounce off of it.

4. Misdirection Hex: It really sucks when cast on my party, so I found it's nice when cast on enemies.

5. Cone of Cold: Pretty much indispensable.

[tetracycloide]

m14567 wrote...

Well, I couldn't resist. I had to test.

In the Brecilian Forest against Shambling skeletons. Level 18 mage with 70 spellpower.

inferno + tempest = 43 dmg/tick
inferno + affliction hex = 35 dmg/tick

Looks like you are wrong.

EDIT: In fact this is the second time I've SEEN YOU post information that is incorrect. You claimed that being stunned halved your defense which is not correct either.

Inferno damage is (100 + spellpower) * .4, tempest damge is (100 + spellpower) * .1, and affliction hex is a (100 + spellpower) * .2 resistance modifier.  

Inferno damage = (100 + 70) *0 .4 = 68
Tempest damage = (100 + 70) * 0.1 = 17
Affliction hex resistance modifier = (100 + 70) *0.2 = 34
Inferno + Affliction hex damage = 68 * 1.34 = 91.2
Inferno + Tempest damage = 68 + 17 = 85

So we have conclusive proof that tempest + inferno is less than inferno + affliction hex against a target with 0 base resistances in both elements cast by a mage with 70 spell power and no % damage modifiers to fire or electricity damage.  I have no idea why your results in game are different from this but I suspect the answer lies in either the base resistances of your targets or in your mage's equipment.

EDIT: My mistake.  The difference isn't in your gear or the target's resistances.  It's in the metric you're using to compare.  Damage/tick is not an accurate representation of the total damage because inferno ticks 25 times while tempest ticks only 14 times.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 10 janvier 2010 - 07:17 .

[tetracycloide]

You're also holding everything constant which isn't all that accurate either. Percentage based elemental damage gear and the -resistance bonus of affliction hex are multiplicative. This is a very big deal at high levels and high spellpower since adding another AoE would merely be an additive bonus to damage.

EDIT: To be honest I'm not seeing where the formula for Inferno comes from either.  At 70 spellpower against alistair with 0% fire resist and 0% fire damage I'm seeing the same 26 damage you are.  Whatever that formula discribes it isn't damage per tick and I don't think it's damage per debuff either (inferno applies a debuff which keeps the fire DoT ticking which is why sometimes you see two ticks simultaneously.  It ticks, the debuff fades, the debuff is reapplied, and then the new debuff ticks again.)

At 26 damage a tick from inferno at 25 ticks that's 650, tempest at 17 a tick for 14 ticks is 238, and inferno at 35 damage a tick is 875.  Less overall damage by 13 although the damage is slightly more front loaded since inferno double ticks sometimes.  This is where my second point comes in, +damage gear.  With even one piece of +fire % damage gear of only 10% Inferno + affliction hex is better.  With 30% damage gear in both fire and electricity 2 AoEs are better.  So it's really depends on the AoEs being used, the target's resistances, and the caster's gear.  One isn't always more damage than the other, if I said that affliction was always more damage in every case I was wrong.  It's situational.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 10 janvier 2010 - 08:38 .

[Mighty peon]

Personally, I really tried to find out some ways to make shapeshifting at least moderatly usefull.

One way they can be usefull is if you are out of mana. However, such a situation simply should not happen.

The second way they may be usefull is if you set up "Chain overwhelms" in a duell situation.

This would be like, against Loghain (there arent a lot of duels in the game anyway), use overwhelm, hurt him, web him, change to bear, use overwhelm again, rinse and repeat. However, I do not know how cooldowns for shape form are handled, nor do I know if the DPS of that trick will be worth the effort, nor do I know if the Web will give you enough time to shapeshift. Also, a ranger could conceivably do the same thing with much less situational picks.

I mean, shapeshiftign would be totally awesome in a pen and paper situation, giving you access to flight and excellent scouting/movement, however, the game does not have such situations.





So, in order to buff shapechange, I suggest the following:

-No more channeling

-Make it clearer which items effect what while shapeshifted

-Let a shapeshifter keep all active buffs on

-Seriously pimp all shapeshift forms. The current Pimped forms should be the ones one receives instantly, and mastery should add annother boost.



Which could make shapeshift an interesting thing to do while waiting for cooldowns to go down.

[keesio74]

What do you folks think is the best pure mass AoE spell (on its own with no spell combos)? Mass sustaining AoE meaning Inferno, Blizzard, Earthquake, Tempest, Death Cloud, Mass Paralysis.

[3nfan7]

In my first play (2 wielder warrior) i found those spell very useful :

1.Haste. (do i have to mention what does happen when i unleash attacks with momentum?)

2.Petrify. I found out you can petrify everything with a high chance to success.Seriously, it RoCkS^^

3.Death Hex. ooops, you're doomed

4.Glyph of Neutralization. Are we friggin seriuous?does it even prepare my lunch?

5.Lifeward. Reminds me of healing on MMORPG like WoW (amagawd the drake is eating the rogue,no wait the tanks needs healing.why bother when this is up?)

______________________________________



1.Revival. I accomplished the game without any of my party member ever fall in battle.Just to add sauce but i presume it can be money.

2.Staff Focus. It is mandatory to gain arcane mastery, but honestly beyond lvl 7 how often do you go with basic attacks?

3.Disorient. Looks like a drop a in sea of better crowd control / debuff talent tree.

'nuff said.

probably shock and flame blast compared to the versatility of winter's grasp.

[prizm123]

best:

virulent walking bomb

blizzard

tempest

glyph of paralysis

group heal

[Vanadio]

mhh

Best :

glyph of paralysis



Mass Paralysis



Blood Wound

[Elhanan]

Best currently:

Glyph of Repulsion

Walking Bomb

Winter's Breath

Cone of Cold

Force Field

[HolyAvenger]

I looooooooooove Petrify (follow up with a stonefist or a crushing prison)



Inferno



Group Heal



Mass Paralysis



Force Field

[Sabariel]

I don't know about 'best', but my favorites are:



1. Mana Clash

2. Crushing Prison

3. Glyph of Repulsion

4. Group Heal

5. Haste



Least favorites are:

1. Rock Armor

2. Heroic Offense/Defense/Aura

3. Earthquake

4. Mana Cleanse

5. Revive (Because you can't just select which character you want to revive. You have to run around the battlefield looking for wherever they fell so they're in the 'area of effect' when you use the spell.)

[freddfx]

Hmm, the best spells...

+Heal
+Force Field
+Blood Control
+Crushing Prison
+Waking Nightmare (nothing like having an entire room of enemies fighting each other)

As for the worst... well...

-Mana Cleanse
-Disorient
-the ENTIRE shapshifting line
-Weakness
-Grease

[FellowerOfOdin]

Sabariel wrote...


5. Revive (Because you can't just select which character you want to revive. You have to run around the battlefield looking for wherever they fell so they're in the 'area of effect' when you use the spell.)

You can click on the character's portrait to automatically target him / her.

[Sabariel]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Sabariel wrote...


5. Revive (Because you can't just select which character you want to revive. You have to run around the battlefield looking for wherever they fell so they're in the 'area of effect' when you use the spell.)

You can click on the character's portrait to automatically target him / her.

I'm on PS3 so unfortunately I don't have that option. Revive is an AoE spell in the PS3 version.

[Dyltron]

First post, hi forum.

I just finished my first play through (and for the first time ever in a game I was chomping at the bit to start a second). From what I've read on the forums I went with a bit of an unconventional and inefficient route; three mage babes and Sten. My best and worst spells are based on this playthrough, and not what is best or worst overall.

1. Cone of Cold (everyone loves it and we all know why) I didn't even mind the FF. It was so fun to pause the game with the radial menu (360 here) and then unpause, reposition based on expected enemy movement and then bam, you have a half dozen foe frozen and who are also well damaged.

2. Mind Blast. This spell isn't even that fun and doesn't last that long but I foundnd myself using it all the time. It is cheap and allows you to control the battlefield and set up, or save yourself, in times of trouble.

3. Crushing Prison. It's a no brainer and is sadistically fun.

4. Earthquake. This spell gets no love in this thread and isn't very useful if you have just one mage and use rogues and multiple warriors. But if you have three mages, like myself, it is very sweet. First of all it is almost instantaneous to cast. I gave it to Wynne, who would disable up to a dozen foes at one time (and for quite a while) and then let my other two mages cast other AoE spells (that take a long time to cast), or individual spells to isolate the prime targets. By the time my tank was done falling on his ass, he was barley needed. And yes, I know you can use storm of century but I don't like it. Sue me. Earthqauke puts them on their ass before they know what happened.

5. Shock. Wow, I must be a nub or something but I barley saw it mentioned in this thread. I did a ton of work with this spell. The cooldown time is very low (like cone of cold) and if you position yourself right (and have a nice set of electricity buffs) it does tons of damage. As someone mentioned before, electricity hits high against most all foe. I know it's a poor man's cone of cold. I think I also like it because it reminds me of my first bioware love, KOTOR.

Worst:

1. Chain Lighting. The one caveat is the final battles before the final battle at denerim and that if you have a large cluster of foes, it  also does more damage than you think. Still, it sounds so great before you get it and is so bad once you have it.

2. Stonefist. O.K. obviously not one of the worst but it got worse as the game went on. I was enjoying that I could shatter foes, then all of a sudden it becomes useless for much of the game. If you're looking to disable a single  foe who is messing with your party then there many better options in your spellbook (like crushing prison or forcefield).

3. Mana Drain. Totally a waste of time. Where's my mana in return?!

4. Shapeshifter. Is this a way for me to make my mage 10x less effective? Yes

5. All the enchantment spells besides haste (but with a 3x mage setup, haste is not as useful either)
 

[Aapheus]

Dyltron wrote...


2. Stonefist. O.K. obviously not one of the worst but it got worse as the game went on. I was enjoying that I could shatter foes, then all of a sudden it becomes useless for much of the game. If you're looking to disable a single  foe who is messing with your party then there many better options in your spellbook (like crushing prison or forcefield).

3. Mana Drain. Totally a waste of time. Where's my mana in return?!

...
 

Stonefist is a great spell to use in combo with cone of cold.  Once the enemy is frozen, hit 'em with stonefist and they shatter.  The nice thing about mana drain is to suck away enemy spellcasters' ability to spam your party.  Yeah, there are more effective spells to use against spellcasters first, but it's not bad having this one in reserve.

[HolyAvenger]

Petrify + Stonefist is even better due to range. Doesn't work on bosses, but is a great magekiller in a mob for example.

[Addai]

I don't claim any sort of stats crunching. These are just my favorite and least favorite spells.



Favorites: Fireball (oh, the joys of blowing things up), Blood Wound, Virulent Walking Bomb, Paralysis Explosion, Dispel (boring but essential in Awakening especially and has no recharge)



Least favorites: Shock line for anything but screenshots, Earthquake (nerfed in some patch or other, only knocks my own crew down and not the enemies), Lifeward- I hate the green circles!, Heroic this or that (so boring being a buff mage), Swarm (though the spouse swears by it)