297 réponses à ce sujet

[Vukodlak]

You know its kinda funny that shortly before this games release I made a comment that perhaps the mages should ally with the templars and revolt against the chantry, after all the chantry shackles templars through Lyrium addiction who in turn shackle the mages. On another subject, you have the mystery of the idol the moment I saw that thing I thought. *oh boy, that thing is going to be trouble*. I didn't realize how much trouble until the very end though.

RosaAquafire wrote...
But you're not SUPPOSED to
know for certain, not until you look back over the game and everything
falls into place. You didn't know if Meredith was insane or intense. You
didn't know if Orsino was twisted or desperate. Just like you can't
tell a blood mage from a normal mage until they start mindcontrolling
and summoning demons. Yeah, there are two hints that you can infer from,
but this isn't supposed to be a choice that you go into.

What struck me with Orsino was he was little different then many other mages on the run, when cornered and faced with death he turned to the most twisted magic imaginible. Going by the same logic, "if were to be branded monsters anyway, might as well be monsters"

Meredith I simply thought was a zealot, until she drew the sword, then I said to myself, oh so thats why there seeking me. I found the idol responsible for this whole mess. Now I know how the D&D party I DM felt after they accidently freed an ancient evil.

TheDarkRats wrote...

Yes, but it left me with questions spawning everywhere...

What
was Cassandra planning? Will they find Hawke? How do they think Hawke
can fix this? How is the Warden involved? How are Hawke and the Warden
connected? What happens next? What's going onnnnn?
I hope we get some
expansion... Will Dragon Age 3 have a new character? How will they be
connected to Hawke and the Warden? Could Dragon Age 3 just be about
Hawke and the Warden, considering they both disappeared? Is Dragon Age 3
just about Hawke?

And the burning question...
Will we get answers?

Your asking the very same questions Casandra and Leliana likely had. The Warden and Hawke were among the most powerful and influencal people in Theadas and they both disapear.(probably extra odd if the warden was a human mage). Perhaps a future DLC will have you control Leliana and Casandra as they hunt for the Warden and Hawke?

Personally I think in Dragon Age 3 will focus on Morrigans child from the dark ritual, and Flemeth. Maybe you'll even play as that child,

Immortanius wrote...

Hell yes I loved the ending! I just finished my first playthrough! It was EPIC!!
---SPOILER ALERT---

When Leliana and Cassandra said at the very end, "He's gone, just like the Warden", I remembered my Warden going through the portal with Morrigan.

It should be noted that in any of the origins endings where the Warden lived, it says that years later he/she vanished.
DAII doesn't check plot flags for Witch Hunt or Golems of Amagarrak

[RosaAquafire]

Rafe34 wrote...
In which case, so what? So is Merrill and that is no reason to just kill them/destroy their soul.

Because that worked out so well for Merrill. Her story had a very happy ending

[Chuvvy]

Other than the fact that the game seemingly ended at year seven (unless I missed something) I liked the story.

[Eumerin]

It should be noted that in any of the origins endings where the Warden lived, it says that years later he/she vanished.

Though that happens to all Grey Wardens - they all eventually set off to walk the Deep Roads and go out in a blaze of glory before the Blight gets them.  So it's ambiguous in the Origins ending.  Though speaking of disappearences, Leliana's role in this game puts a whole new light on her vanishing act that she has in the Origins epilogue if she had a romance with a sacrificed Warden.

In any case, there are hints throughout the game that the Grey Wardens know something big is about to happen - and not the mage/templar issue that the Seeker claims to be focusing on.  There's the group of Wardens that you meet during the fighting with the Qunari that claim they have extremely important business elsewhere.  And Nathanial's expedition to the Primeval Thaig wasn't just a sight-seeing trip.

[RosaAquafire]

lamppostinwinter wrote...

The years add up, you skip one year paying your debt, then play one year in Act 1, skip another 3 years, play a year in act two, skip yet another 3 years, and play the final year in Act 3.

1+1+3+1+3+1=10

I thought this too, but in one of varric's act 3 dialogues he says "it's been six years, today, since I saw you coming out of that office."

So it's seven years, but whatever, I suspect they were rounding up.

[packardbell]

The ending made me wanting more, too bad there wasn't any epilogues to give us an impression on what our companions did next.

[Malja]

packardbell wrote...

The ending made me wanting more, too bad there wasn't any epilogues to give us an impression on what our companions did next.

Same... but I guess that makes the DLC more flexible. God there better be some.

[packardbell]

Malja wrote...

packardbell wrote...

The ending made me wanting more, too bad there wasn't any epilogues to give us an impression on what our companions did next.

Same... but I guess that makes the DLC more flexible. God there better be some.

Indeed. After the backlash with Anders with confliting epilogues. Any DLC will probably be within Hawke's rise to champion instead of after the events, that is more suited for an expansion.. which is probably months away.

[crapoo16]

I got anders even though I killed him for doing that to the chantry

[moonandserpent]

I loved the ending. The Anders thing was like a punch in the gut, and I cheered with Nathaniel Howe and Zevran showed up the final fight vs. the Templars.

Also:  Another possible hook for DLC is the mysterious Grey Warden mission in Act 2.

Modifié par moonandserpent, 12 mars 2011 - 01:42 .

[DieHigh2012]

The story in itself was alright, the ending screwed it up for me though.

[Malja]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

The story in itself was alright, the ending screwed it up for me though.

May I ask why? I know many people are upset about it, but I'd like a specific answer.

[Hellosanta]

I just finished the game .. and they said that the warden is missing exactly like Hawke ... so I really think there is something big planned in the future. Maybe we will get to play a hero from each country and then later, they will be somehow connected to each other for BIG thing coming up!

[Darth Obvious]

Malja wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

The story in itself was alright, the ending screwed it up for me though.

May I ask why? I know many people are upset about it, but I'd like a specific answer.

For me it was a let-down. I thought that there was going to be this huge invasion by the Qunari, which could have made quite the epic ending. Instead, it was just a local quibble between the mages and the Templars, and by the end of the story I was completely sick of hearing about them. It just seemed to me like Acts 2 and 3 should have been switched around.

[Malja]

Darth Obvious wrote...

Malja wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

The story in itself was alright, the ending screwed it up for me though.

May I ask why? I know many people are upset about it, but I'd like a specific answer.

For me it was a let-down. I thought that there was going to be this huge invasion by the Qunari, which could have made quite the epic ending. Instead, it was just a local quibble between the mages and the Templars, and by the end of the story I was completely sick of hearing about them. It just seemed to me like Acts 2 and 3 should have been switched around.

I see. I suppose if you expected something, disappointment is an obvious result. I do not empathize, but thank you for sharing.

[Hellosanta]

If you side with Templars, Orsino confesses that he is acquaintance / he has had an exchange of knowledge about blood magic with the killer who killed Hawke's mother. I was heart-broken when she died. So ... I'm not sure If i really want to side with mages in the future playthrough ...

Modifié par Hellosanta, 12 mars 2011 - 04:03 .

[LobselVith8]

maselphie wrote...

 Am I the only one who isn't completely disappointed with the story?

I was so moved by the ending, that my head is still wheeling. I played a mage, stumbled into an Anders romance, thought they were too happy, and then he confused me by psuedo breaking up with me, and Justice was STILL there after his little quest ... The ending. It took me by surprise. Everything suddenly made sense, and I suddenly realized what kind of radical I was attached to. It broke my heart. And that's ... amazing.

From someone who wanted the Magi boon to matter since Awakening, I loved that the mages could finally free themselves from the Chantry, thanks to Anders. I had a romance with Merrill, but I had a good friendship with Anders, and I kept him with me even though Sebastian threatened to have Starkhaven declare war against me. What Anders did took me by surprise (I didn't fully complete his quest and didn't realize I'd reached a critical point when I headed to the Tower, but I went back and replayed the quests I didn't do after the scene and put all the pieces together), but I also think it was necessary. There shouldn't be a compromise when it comes to freedom, especially when Anders saw the Chantry controlled Circle as slavery.

maselphie wrote...

This is a video game! When's the last time you felt so angry or disgusted by the STORY? And not just "oh, this is bull****, whatever" and flip it off? When's the last time a video game made you cry? Not that I did but, I was rightly shaken, especially with Sebastian's reaction in the mix. It was so out of left field, and I love it.

I knew it was going to be trouble given Sebastian's pro-Chantry leanings. I think this might be addressed in DLC. I don't regret siding with the mages and keeping Anders. I thought it was really well done. I enjoyed seeing the characters respond to what happened, the loyalty with the characters you established friendships with, and even how Fenris' rivalry with me still lead him to see me as a friend and side with me when I pointed out that the Chantry controlled Circle was slavery.

Hellosanta wrote...

If you side with Templars, Orsino confesses that he is acquaintance / he has had an exchange of knowledge about blood magic with the killer who killed Hawke's mother. I was heart-broken when she died. So ... I'm not sure If i really want to side with mages in the future playthrough ...

Knight-Commander Meredith wants to murder every man, woman, and child because of something that wasn't even done by a Circle mage. I can't honestly see siding with her for anything but the chance to become Viscount, and even then you'd likely be a pawn of the Order of Templars and have no more power than the other Viscounts who were little more than puppet rulers for the true authority in Kirkwall.

Also, I didn't get the impression that the First Enchanter was a closet blood mage. He doesn't use blood magic in combat, for instance Throughout the story, he seemed reasonable in his conversations when he was telling Knight-Commander Meredith, including when he said he would help her search through the Gallows to show her that there aren't any clandestine blood mages and when he backed down with the Grand Cleric. He wasn't even part of the conspiracy against Meredith. I interpreted his final act as "suicide." As for his knowledge of blood magic, he seemed aware of Quentin's discoveries (likely because Quentin was also a mage) because of their correspondence, but he clearly voices that he disagreed with Quentin's point of view and Quentin's magic as he's giving up on life.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 12 mars 2011 - 04:19 .

[maselphie]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Also, I didn't get the impression that the First Enchanter was a closet blood mage. He doesn't use blood magic in combat, for instance Throughout the story, he seemed reasonable in his conversations when he was telling Knight-Commander Meredith, including when he said he would help her search through the Gallows to show her that there aren't any clandestine blood mages and when he backed down with the Grand Cleric. He wasn't even part of the conspiracy against Meredith. I interpreted his final act as "suicide." As for his knowledge of blood magic, he seemed aware of Quentin's discoveries (likely because Quentin was also a mage) because of their correspondence, but he clearly voices that he disagreed with Quentin's point of view and Quentin's magic as he's giving up on life.

I, too, was like "WTF" when Orsino went blood mage. I was just shaking my head like "noo... oh come on .. noo ...assfdkhfgdf". Role-playing wise, my char just went completely numb after that. Like others have been saying, it's difficult to even believe your own side was right all along. The Templars were as right as the mages: even though someone "seems" okay and normal (Anders included) they can be one second from bat**** crazy. And often, demons don't even give them that choice. But then, they're all being slaughtered for questionable reasons, rather than rooting out the problem, just eliminate anything that could have it. Kinda like the movie Minority Report -- can you arrest a guy for a crime he didn't commit? (But more ambiguous, because there's no proof anyone will do a crime later.)

For a medieval type of game, everyone had remarkable clarity, frankly. The entire populace would probably have wanted all the mages burned at the stake looong ago.

It's hard to say just how many mages turned to blood magic. In my character's eyes, DAMN NEAR ALL OF THEM. And I didn't realize this until Orsino. We're barely exposed to the non-blood-mage folks, so I can see why people would side with the Templars, because there's no group of people to sympathize with, really. Outside of yourself, if you're a mage, or your sister. And Anders, but then, he just showed you he's not to be trusted at the ending.

With that Blood Mage specialization just sitting in my skill screen, I can see just how EASY it is for mages to just take it up. Just calling it a no-no isn't working.

Ahhh,  we were talking about the ending.

What I found interesting about the ending was that the main plot revealed itself to me. All through the game, I'm wondering who the main villian is, and what the final boss will be, and all that stuff you would expect to know by then if you were playing any other fantasy RPG. When you get to the end, you realize. Damn. It was here all along. I just thought the templar/mage thing was just a HEAVY theme (damn near every quest was about it or brought it up, and your very companions were defined by it) but whoooa no. THAT was the plot. I was living it and choosing it the ENTIRE TIME. That sort of realization is an amazing feeling. One that they had to have carefully crafted. This isn't like that show "Lost" where the writers were just making it up as they go -- the entire feeling that the ending gives you had to have been specifically designed.

Rocks me unlike any other game I've played before. I will ... I will remember that for a long, long time.

[Camilladilla]

maselphie wrote...

What I found interesting about the ending was that the main plot revealed itself to me. All through the game, I'm wondering who the main villian is, and what the final boss will be, and all that stuff you would expect to know by then if you were playing any other fantasy RPG. When you get to the end, you realize. Damn. It was here all along. I just thought the templar/mage thing was just a HEAVY theme (damn near every quest was about it or brought it up, and your very companions were defined by it) but whoooa no. THAT was the plot. I was living it and choosing it the ENTIRE TIME. That sort of realization is an amazing feeling. One that they had to have carefully crafted. This isn't like that show "Lost" where the writers were just making it up as they go -- the entire feeling that the ending gives you had to have been specifically designed.

Rocks me unlike any other game I've played before. I will ... I will remember that for a long, long time.

Exactly, I've never been so moved by a game before. I always approach stories with a certain amount of cynicism, especially fantasy RPGs as I'm a big reader of fantasy books, a lot fantasy games are still mired in tropes that persists in the fantasy genre. It was just a refreshing change and I would easily say that DA2 was one of the darkest of Bioware's games, granted I haven't played ALL of them yet, so it's not a claim with a lot of validity.

Bioware claimed DA was supposed to be a dark and realistic fantasy game with A Song of Ice and Fire as one of their biggest influences. I saw shades of that in DAO, but it was in DA2 that they accomplished that goal. I give them props for their creativity and willingness to try something different and I can only hope that they'll stick to their guns rather than let fandom influence their decisions in the future.

And this is a game that gets better on a replay, you catch all the little references and subtleties the second time around and you realize that wow, Bioware's been projecting the entire ending to us all this time! Meredith's been a presence in the game since the moment you stepped into Kirkwall! I started a new game yesterday and after the one year passes cutscene, you see Meredith walk by that street urchin who stole Hawke's money. I admit it made me smile to see that she's been right there at the start.

Do you think DA2 will become Majora's Mask/Silent Hill 2 of the DA series or a shameful sequel that people will look back on with embarrassment? I personally would like to believe the former. A lot of people gave Majora's Mask a lot of flak for being so completely different from Ocarina of Time when it first came out, but nowadays a large majority of the fandom will agree that Majora's Mask was the best of the series.

Modifié par Camilladilla, 12 mars 2011 - 04:56 .

[maselphie]

Camilladilla wrote...

Meredith's been a presence in the game since the moment you stepped into Kirkwall! I started a new game yesterday and after the one year passes cutscene, you see Meredith walk by that street urchin who stole Hawke's money. I admit it made me smile to see that she's been right there at the start.

YES! Exactly! When I made my 2nd char, you should have seen my jaw drop. The entire game mentions this "Meredith", so I was like huh ... I guess I'll be fighting her one day. Since she's crazy and all. I even got the feeling that she was some sort of corrupted Templar, since her recruits were turning into abominations, and that I would have to purge her for being demonized or something. But the end of that quest basically put that to death, and the game rarely mentions her outside of "who is this woman? is she really crazy?" I could have honestly seen her side of things in the end. That is, before it was revealed she was TOO crazy because of the idol.

But yeah, like you said. She was there in the beginning, but we couldn't even recognize it. Lots of things were. They did this on purpose.

Do you think DA2 will become Majora's Mask/Silent Hill 2 of the DA series or a shameful sequel that people will look back on with embarrassment? I personally would like to believe the former. A lot of people gave Majora's Mask a lot of flak for being so completely different from Ocarina of Time when it first came out, but nowadays a large majority of the fandom will agree that Majora's Mask was the best of the series. 

Oh, jeez, don't get me started ... Christ. I hope it will become highly revered. Most of these bad reviews ... they're ignorant. It sounds like they skipped all the cutscenes. It sounds like they played the demo only and then harped on the entire game. It sounds like they stopped playing mid-game and never gave it a chance. Time HAS to show that there WILL BE people who played the ENTIRE  thing and THEN gave their impressions. And if nothing else, time will patch up the biggest flaw of the ending, which is that it's basically a "to be continued" instead of a conclusion. I seriously hope Penny Arcade or someone with culture influence can slap these nay-sayers in line wiith a cold dose of reality. It's okay to not like it, but I think there is something wrong with saying it's awful because you don't WANT to like it.

You can like both DA:O and DA2. So my hope is, sincerely and completely, that it will be recognized for its accomplishments as an interactive story-telling medium, and not just "push button, something awesome happens." Extra Credits from the Escapist has been pushing and pushing developers to do exactly what Bioware just did. And us, as fans, completely betrayed them for taking that risk. Why? Because those fans think they betrayed them. But did they? Did they really?

*gets off soapbox*

[LetsGoToMyHouse]

Maybe this isnt the correct thread to point this out, but I noticed something in the ending that conflicts with an earlier event. When I talked to Alistair, Teagan said that, "The Hero of Ferelden will be in Denerim by the time they get back." But at the end of the game, Cassandra (or maybe it was Leliana) mentioned how Hawke vanished just like the Warden did. That could mean that the Warden vanished for a time and is now back. Just something interesting to think about.

[MKDAWUSS]

The ending was a lot more campy than disturbing.