297 réponses à ce sujet

[Noviere]

I loved the story.

[Loc'n'lol]

I loved the finale. I can see how the very ending might be disappointing to some people. I'll just say that consider both half-life game as some of the absolute best ever, -though they're no RPGs they do tell a story- and they both end in a downer/cliffhanger ending.

Anyway, cliffhanger ending, but everything that led to it was awesome (except fighting Orsino, that felt like... "if this is supposed to be the final boss I'm not impressed at all").

[Parrk]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

I loved the finale. I can see how the very ending might be disappointing to some people. I'll just say that consider both half-life game as some of the absolute best ever, -though they're no RPGs they do tell a story- and they both end in a downer/cliffhanger ending.

Anyway, cliffhanger ending, but everything that led to it was awesome (except fighting Orsino, that felt like... "if this is supposed to be the final boss I'm not impressed at all").

During the orsino fight, the only thing I  was thinking was "this guy was so much tougher in golems."

My favorite fights of the entire game were those where you show up to find two sides battling it out.....and then procede to slaughter both.

"hey look.... bad templars fighting blood mages...Kill 'em all!  let the maker sort 'em out.."

[Palaven]

I really loved the ending! The only thing I didn't like was the huge suspense to get to the end to see what the whole Cassandra thing was about... only to get more suspense with a cliffhanger! Oh well...

[DebatableBubble]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Just finished it now, and I absolutely loved the ending.

Okay, well, to be fair, not the ENDING. I get this horrible sinking feeling we're going to play as Hawke again, just from how it ended, and let me tell you, if I could have ONE WISH for DA3, it's to play as neither Hawke nor the Warden. I don't WANT to pick up those characters in a new place without any of their friends or lovers or families. I want my Warden to be having adventures with Zevran. I want my Hawke to be hiding from the Inquisition with Fenris. That's what I want!

But that's not really what we're talking about here. We're talking about the ending SEQUENCE of EVENTS. And if you ask me, it was possibly the BEST done ending sequence I've ever seen.

I complained so much about the lack of REAL moral dilemnas in DA:O. There was always a lame "save everybody, go home happy" option that took the teeth off every choice. Even the ones without compromises tended to come down to morality vs. pragmatism. But holy hell, in DA2? The choices are HARD, they're MEATY, and they make you THINK. The entire last few hours are just a whirlwind. I chose the templars, because it was in character for my Hawke, but for me, myself? I don't know WHAT was right. I'm sitting here trying to figure out WHO I side with.

What Anders did was heartbreaking. My character never saw eye to eye with him, but *I* loved him, and I couldn't believe what he'd done. Elthina was the only person in Kirkwall worthy of living, and she was the one who was martyred. I really didn't even know how to PROCESS what happened, it affected me so much. Much like Leandra's death in Act 2, I needed a minute to just sit in my chair reeling and marinating. NOTHING in DA:O made me FEEL so much as that.

I think people wanted to see a big epic victory over an indisuptable evil in a conveniently killable inside out dragon. It doesn't feel as "satisfying" to kill a woman who doubts that she's doing the right thing with her last breaths. But it makes you THINK. DA2 is so thematically dense, I can't even wrap my mind around it.

I have some complaints with the game. The reused areas didn't bother me, but I can see why they're lazy and bother people. I really wish there were options to just have conversations with your party members outside of their quests -- they felt less meaty than they did in Origins. Not the characters, but the options for interacting with them. And I would have liked to have seen more satisfying endings for the individual characters -- though thank you for mentioning our love interest in the ending narration, I was worried we wouldn't get that. And yeah, I do wish it ended less on a "COMING UP NEXT: THEDAS GOES TEVINTER AND FERELDEN WARS WITH ORLAIS" sort of note.

But this game is SO much more complex, SO much more deep, SO much more dense than DA:O. I adored DA:O, absolutely loved it, and before DA2 I considered it the best written game of all time.

Well, not anymore.

**** the haters, I will defend Mister Gaider and the rest of the team until I'm blue in the face. Dragon Age 2 is literature, and if people can't handle that, well.

Jman5 wrote...

I liked it as a whole, but I took issue
with specific parts of the story. For example, the first enchanter going
all abomination on me felt forced. I think Bioware just wanted you to
fight a meaningful boss battle and threw his character under a bus.

I
understand that they didn't want to make either side seem like the
"right" or "good" choice, but I felt they could have handled it better.
Maybe alter the ending to show that saving him had long term negative or
dubious consequences.

Actually, Jman5, I think Orsino's character is chillingly consistant. If you read the note from the Circle in Quinten's hideout before the revelation with Leandra, his connection was FAR FAR more invested than he tried to make it seem. He was thoroughly thrilled with the experimentation, and was providing Quinten with resources to continue his little "project."

Orsino was a bastard, just like Meredith and everybody else in this city.

Why can't people be more like you?

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

The game kicked ass. That's all there is to it.

[Stalky24]

 Actually, I felt really dissapointed from the story till the finale. And absolute last cinematics was total blast!!!

[Cerelinde]

I found the whole thing to be very enjoyable, and very satisfying - I just finished my first playthrough tonight, and I'm still mostly in repeat-mode of 'GODDAMNIT ANDERS!' (He was my girl's romance choice, and I adored how.. well, how adoring he was.)  

I don't think a game needs to have an Oscar-worthy script to be fun and satisfying.  I liked that there was a lot of Anders-story controversy - if I'd read his short story before playing through, I think that would have skewed my expectation from his character, so I'm glad I didn't.  I like dark storylines, and moral grey areas, and endings that don't have shiny happy bows on them.

However, I did not like the Leandra storyline.  It felt out of place.  It felt forced to suddenly have this happening to Hawke's mother - the Kirkwall Killer was awful enough to get an emotional response from Hawke without sacrificing her mother to him.  I also have a pretty strong knee-jerk reaction against using female characters as crazy serial-killer targets so commonly (don't even get me started on how often wives/daughters/gfs are used as a way to get the male 'hero' to go all Rightful Vengeance Guy mode, without making any meaningful contribution to the story aside from getting themselves dead/kidnapped/etc).  It wasn't even satisfying to me as part of Orsino's backstory before he turned into .. whatever kind of abomination that pile of yuck was.  It wasn't hard to figure out that he was probably the 'O' in the note, and Orsino himself at the end only made a pretty throwaway remark (especially since I'd forgotten the KK's actual name till that moment). 

Other than that - I'm quite happy with the story, and with the ending.  I thought the fight with Meredith was fun and satisfying too.  Next playthrough starting soon!

[Medet]

I liked it for the most part... I dunno the whole third act left me sort of confused, I think my inconsistent choices may have thrown it for a loop. Or it was just loopy to start with.

Starting act 3, I tried to stay neutral, but he only way to progress the story (that I could find) was helping Meridith track her 3 escaped mages. I was forced to kill the 2 abominations, and let the bald manboy go, and told her so. Then Orsino asked me to look into some meeting and suddenly everyone there was like, oh you sided with Meridith, die. I get to Thrask's meeting with Grace, and I say I think Meridith is a nutter and then Grace goes, well, nutter on me. Why does she attack me? I saved her ass and said I thought Meridith was a nutter. Oh well.

I think that is where I was the most confused, and it left an awkward feel to the rest of the act, although I followed everything pretty well from there. It was like me staying neutral was interpreted as me siding with the templars, rather than forcing me to choose a side at some point. Or more, when I got to the meeting and I thought I was going to be forced to choose a side, I tried to side with the mages and they attacked me...

After that it was pretty solid, until the end, where it said mages rallied around my champion although I sided with the Templars... I think I saved an entire 3 mages and my sister out of the entire tower, but that doesnt seem to be such a great rallying point.

Blah. Perhaps it would have been better if I played it straight for one side from the beginning.

[maselphie]

Medet wrote...

Starting act 3, I tried to stay neutral, but he only way to progress the story (that I could find) was helping Meridith track her 3 escaped mages. I was forced to kill the 2 abominations, and let the bald manboy go, and told her so. Then Orsino asked me to look into some meeting and suddenly everyone there was like, oh you sided with Meridith, die. I get to Thrask's meeting with Grace, and I say I think Meridith is a nutter and then Grace goes, well, nutter on me. Why does she attack me? I saved her ass and said I thought Meridith was a nutter. Oh well.

Those things happened to me, too. Not really you mix playing. I think it's to show that both sides aren't safe.

[Vandicus]

Medet wrote...
 I get to Thrask's meeting with Grace, and I say I think Meridith is a nutter and then Grace goes, well, nutter on me. Why does she attack me? I saved her ass and said I thought Meridith was a nutter. Oh well.

Grace was evil when she was first rescued.

**SPOILERS**

Think of Merril's quest when/and if the Keeper is possessed rather than Merril. After Hawke wins, the "Keeper" attempts to convince Hawke that the demon is now gone. Grace does the same thing, she was actually a blood mage who favored Decimus's methods.

[Medet]

Even if she was a blood mage... she was obviously cooperating with people who were opposed o Meredith. Templars even. And I said I agreed with her and that Meredith was a nutter and she went all crazy on me and killed Thrask.

What I didnt understand was why anyone bothered to kidnap Betheny in the first place. Like I said, I hadn't (intentionally?) sided with Meredith at that point, and was attempting to side with the mages after being neutral in the first confrontation of he act.

Do things play out the same if you full on support the mages during Mer and Orsino's initial verbal sparing?

[Fangirl17]

I finished the game the other day and I have to say I was pretty blown away by the ending. In Act 1 I was very disappointed by the story so far but in Act 2 it started to get more interesting.And because of this I thought that DA:O was clearly superior in the story department but having played the whole story I'm a little conflicted to say which is better. They were both great stories but in DA2 there was no good or evil choices and the choices you had to make were REALLY hard unlike in DA:O where most of the time there is an everybody wins solution.

Gah but with the total destruction of the Chantry goes that third everybody wins option.They force you to choose sides which was fine for how I was rping my mage Hawke but in my second play through I really don't know what to do D:

[Camilladilla]

DAO's story was a little too generic for my tastes with too much of the Bioware standard flair (visit five areas and work through the subplots). It delved a bit into politics with the Landsmeet and Dwarves, but DA2 took the storytelling into a totally different direction.

[Eberict]

I just finished the ending and I'm greatly satisfied by it.

My only problem was that I let Anders live so he could at least protect the people he put in danger... and then when I spoke to him inside of the Circle, I was given three dialogue options... all of which condoned what he did. I wanted to slap him upside the head and tell him to shut up about the cause of mages and that I was only doing this to protect the innocent ones he endangered, but the game wouldn't let me. I really, really wanted the option to punch his teeth in for his act of terrorism.

[AmstradHero]

DA2's story was far superior in terms of the themes it was discussing and how it forced you to make difficult decisions. The decision to kill or spare Loghain in DAO was nothing on many of the great choices that were present in DA2. Never have I felt quite so conflicted about how to make a choice. Anders was Emelie Hawke's lover and she killed him for what he did before protecting the mages. That was as powerful a moment as anything I experience playing the Baldur's Gate series, Planescape: Torment, or Mass Effect 1/2. For me, the people complaining about the game's plot seem to be operating on a superficial level of "why isn't there a big-bad guy for me to kill?"

For me, the problem I have is that the end leaves far too many open questions. Why was Flemeth even involved? Or Leliana? What exactly was the shard? It seems as if Cassandra might know, but the player is never told. The Grey Wardens apparently have a hunch too - they went looking for evidence about it. Exactly what did Anders do and how did he do it? Why DOES everyone in Kirkwall go crazy? Who was "Quentin" who told Orsino about the ritual needed to become a harvester?

Many of these are issues that were set up as though they were pivotal plot points, but either abandoned or ignored completely. I'm all for leaving the story open, and open hook points for future adventures in Thedas are wonderful, but the apparent importance of those hook points and their number at the end of DA2 left me feeling without a great sense of closure. Which is a pity, because everything up to that point I found incredibly compelling. It's a simple thing to ask for "MOAR!", but in some cases, I would have been happy to have known less so I wasn't left with a sense that I am missing significant elements of the story.

In short, I loved it right up until the very end. The conclusion of the tale of Hawke's rise to power and how he/she was the catalyst for a huge uprising across Thedas was delivered superbly. It's the important details that contributed to the event that don't directly involve Hawke that concern me.  I suppose the writers are just "keeping an ace up their sleeve" and I can respect that as a designer/writer, but as a player it is a little frustrating.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 14 mars 2011 - 06:39 .

[John Epler]

Medet wrote...

Even if she was a blood mage... she was obviously cooperating with people who were opposed o Meredith. Templars even. And I said I agreed with her and that Meredith was a nutter and she went all crazy on me and killed Thrask.

What I didnt understand was why anyone bothered to kidnap Betheny in the first place. Like I said, I hadn't (intentionally?) sided with Meredith at that point, and was attempting to side with the mages after being neutral in the first confrontation of he act.

Do things play out the same if you full on support the mages during Mer and Orsino's initial verbal sparing?

I think Grace was someone who both A) felt oppressed by the Templars and the rest of society and felt that the superiority of mages was something unquestionable. She killed Thrask because he was never more than a tool to her, a way to get to her end of freedom and, more than that, control.

While Alain, at least, was someone who simply wanted to get away from the oppression of the Circle, Grace felt that any sort of fetters on the power of mages was too much. And in the years between Act One and Act Three, she had turned Hawke into the symbol of her oppression. Her bitterness had turned into hate and when Thrask seemed like he was about to stop her from killing Hawke, she killed him.

This is my opinion, of course. I didn't write those quests, though I did do the Cinematic Design on them, so I spent a lot of time with both Act of Mercy and Best Served Cold.

[upsettingshorts]

That's pretty close to my interpretation of what went on. A lot of stated and unstated escalation in terms of both violence and tension occurs between Act One and Act Three. It can be jarring when it starts to effect characters we haven't encountered in many hours - and Hawke hasn't seen in years - in profound ways. But I think it ought to, so I thought that aspect of the story was well done.

[MotoSkunkX]

maselphie wrote...

I agree!! I sincerely hope Bioware doesn't take one look at Metacritic and nixes any DLC they had planned. Please. The characters need some justice. The romances ... ugh, yes, they do, too! I never wanted DLC for a game as much as this one.

I liked the "ending" as well.  But it doesn't need DLC.  What it needs is a full blown expansion.

[Nyaore]

MotoSkunkX wrote...

maselphie wrote...

I agree!! I sincerely hope Bioware doesn't take one look at Metacritic and nixes any DLC they had planned. Please. The characters need some justice. The romances ... ugh, yes, they do, too! I never wanted DLC for a game as much as this one.

I liked the "ending" as well.  But it doesn't need DLC.  What it needs is a full blown expansion.

Or better yet a sequel that lives up to all the hype this ending is causing. I honestly don't believe an Awakenings length expansion, while better than a simple DLC, would be enough to cover the sheer monumental changes that are going on in Thedas at the moment. That's a topic that would be better covered in a 40-60 hour game of it's own - but that's just my own opinion on the matter.

Modifié par Nyaore, 14 mars 2011 - 06:41 .

[Rheia]

I loved the game and the ending too. I had warning bells going off in my head ever since Anders' quest where he refuses to share the plans even with close friend. And when I saw justice come through... yeah.

People are entitled to their own opinions, and I understand many dislike the game, but for me personally the story felt 'right', even if I would have liked a little more indication of the passage of time and companion banters/interaction. But one always wants more of the good thing, right?

The champion was not a hero, not really. But he/she was a catalyst who stood on the brink of change and that what made the story great for me. The cinematics and character expressions were amazing, imho. They really pulled on heartstrings.

If there was one thing I'd wish for the future DLC/expansions, is that if Hawke is used as main protagonist again their romantic partners who stuck with them during epilogue even according to Varrick aren't swept under the rug the way they kind of were in Awakening. I grow attached to the companions who are important to my character. I am sure other people are too

[MotoSkunkX]

Nyaore wrote...

MotoSkunkX wrote...

maselphie wrote...

I agree!! I sincerely hope Bioware doesn't take one look at Metacritic and nixes any DLC they had planned. Please. The characters need some justice. The romances ... ugh, yes, they do, too! I never wanted DLC for a game as much as this one.

I liked the "ending" as well.  But it doesn't need DLC.  What it needs is a full blown expansion.

Or better yet a sequel that lives up to all the hype this ending is causing. I honestly don't believe an Awakenings length expansion, while better than a simple DLC, would be enough to cover the sheer monumental changes that are going on in Thedas at the moment. That's a topic that would be better covered in a 40-60 hour game of it's own - but that's just my own opinion on the matter.

Oh definitely.  I was just hoping for more Hawke before we get Dragon Age 3, and would rather see a 20-40 hour expansion than a few DLC.

Also I still don't get people who are upset about what Anders did =( it was Justice, pure and simple.

[Camilladilla]

It was Anders, he admits as much when you question him after he blows up the chantry.

[Medet]

JohnEpler wrote...

Medet wrote...

Even if she was a blood mage... she was obviously cooperating with people who were opposed o Meredith. Templars even. And I said I agreed with her and that Meredith was a nutter and she went all crazy on me and killed Thrask.

What I didnt understand was why anyone bothered to kidnap Betheny in the first place. Like I said, I hadn't (intentionally?) sided with Meredith at that point, and was attempting to side with the mages after being neutral in the first confrontation of he act.

Do things play out the same if you full on support the mages during Mer and Orsino's initial verbal sparing?

I think Grace was someone who both A) felt oppressed by the Templars and the rest of society and felt that the superiority of mages was something unquestionable. She killed Thrask because he was never more than a tool to her, a way to get to her end of freedom and, more than that, control.

While Alain, at least, was someone who simply wanted to get away from the oppression of the Circle, Grace felt that any sort of fetters on the power of mages was too much. And in the years between Act One and Act Three, she had turned Hawke into the symbol of her oppression. Her bitterness had turned into hate and when Thrask seemed like he was about to stop her from killing Hawke, she killed him.

This is my opinion, of course. I didn't write those quests, though I did do the Cinematic Design on them, so I spent a lot of time with both Act of Mercy and Best Served Cold.

I wish it had played out a bit more in the game. The change, while technically years apart, felt very very abrupt, as the last time I saw Grace she was thanking me for saving her life and giving her her freedom (wasn't she supposed to run away from Kirkwall?)

It seemed like perhaps there should have been one more quest between saving her in Act One and her turning on you in Act Three. My only encounter with her was saving her life and freeing her entirely from the Templar (I killed the Templar pursuing her group)

It was admittedly a rather minor part all things considered but it left me feeling a bit odd for the remainder of the game. I felt like a missed piece of the story somewhere, or a glitched out a flag, rather than a natural progression or consequence of my actions.

Modifié par Medet, 14 mars 2011 - 06:50 .

[Camilladilla]

Actually Grace and Alain were captured shortly after you freed them and are in the Gallows during Act 2. When you bump into her, she's actually very hostile and bitter towards you.