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The fighting is absolutely repulsive.


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#1
Akka le Vil

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I've not yet finished the game, and I was determined to not give my opinion before the end, because I believe in fair review.
But though it's not the whole game, I really have to get it out of my chest. The fighting is pure, raw, utter, atrocious sh*tty garbage. It's a disgrace to look at and to play, and I feel dumber each time I have to fight something.

Animations are utterly ridiculous, the mages and rogues in particular, they are some kind of idiotic dances filled with stupid moves that make me just /facepalm - jumping around, waving weapons uselessly. Dragon Age was supposed to be the "pseudo-realistic and gritty" franchise, this circus is the total opposite. Any immersion and any "seriousness" is killed outright with the party of clowns that look like a children's parody of kung-fu movies.
I'm especially rattled by this because I find "realistic" moves much more classy and endearing than over-the-top idiotic acrobacy, and because they used the pretext of "cool moves" to butcher class (like removing two-weapon fighting for warriors) with the argument that it's a tradeoff to not have the "boring moves" of DAO. And then we get this nauseating display of retardness. Please, give me "boring" any day over this.

The pace and speed is also ridiculous, with people slashing away with huge swords like if they were made of paper, with very choppy movements (supposed to reflect quickness ?).

Exploding corpses all over and the mass-AoEing add to the general feeling of over-the-top stupid/parodic action movie.


So, the rendering is trash, the immersion is zero, the idiotic quotient is OVER NINE THOUSANDS. Maybe the tactical side will save the day ?

Scratch that. There is nearly no tactical idea even in hard.
First, as it was widely said, no Friendly Fire before nightmare. It makes just a shower of flame and ice land right in the middle of the your character without any consequences. You can guess how it helps with the beat-them-all factor above.

Then, the very design of the fight is downright ugly. It can be summed up by 99 % of trash coming in waves, spawning everywhere and destroying any idea of actually trying to think tactical and positioning your characters.
You have swarms of foes everywhere, clashing horribly with the settings (dozens of bandits in every corners of the streets, jumping from roofs and spawning from nothingness, please).
Bosses are hard, but it's more "Street Fighter hard" than "tactically hard", and the trash is dumbingly easy.
They also have kept the "instant healing out of combat" from DAO, which was already excessively "arcade", which makes fight feel quite meaningless also, as it's exactly the same if you end up with 1 hp or full hp (you're insta-healed in the next three seconds anyway).

Finally, the UI has been justly trashed. No isometric camera and constantly reseting AI makes using more than character an annoyance, and trying to target the ground from more than three metres a pain.

In the end, I just select everyone, clic on one mob until he dies, and repeat it until everything is dead on-screen. It keeps my party together, which avoid the "the fragile guy I left in the rear had been ganged upon by magically appearing wave" and the lack of FF and commonplace of AoE means I can just spam everything without thinking.



In conclusion : fighting is a pain, it's just some kind of bad marriage between a simplistic beat-them-all and an avorted attempt to make fighting tactical, only taking the worst of both part (lack of twitchy gameplay from tactical, lack of thought, immersion and just-rush-in-the-group of beat-them-all) and making every fight a bore or a pain. Everything below Nightmare is just totally dumbed down, and Nightmare only make the ridiculousness of ultra-action design even more jarring.
And sadly, not only fighting is repulsively bad, it's also even more proeminent, plenty of it everywhere. Bad, and in greater quantity. Oh joy...
I'm considering putting everything on "casual" just to be able to rip through any fight quickly to get rid of it.

There is some things I like in the game. There is some things I dislike. I'll keep the overall opinion for later.
But the fighting, which was supposedly the core of the changes and was the justification for many of the most controversial ones, is one huge, total, utter FAIL. I can't imagine how someone could have thought of it, even less how he could have dared to propose it, and my brain cries and hurts thinking that not only it was done, but a whole lot of people ENDORSED it.

No cookie for you, Bioware, I'm at a loss for words to express just how bad you dropped the ball on this one.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 13 mars 2011 - 02:11 .


#2
JimmyG

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I love the fighting. So who is wrong?

#3
ptibog

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JimmyG wrote...

I love the fighting. So who is wrong?



you are,
the fighting is broken, the rpg elements are broken.

this interactive movie doesn't deserve 60€.

#4
Kamifel

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two complainers who didn't buy the game but say they know the gameplay .

Kudo !

#5
Maxilor

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So they took Dragon Age and put a backwards baseball cap on it and some tattoos and taught it how to chug Monster Energy Drinks while riding a half-pike and yelling "EXTREME!". I see no problem here.

Modifié par Maxilor, 11 mars 2011 - 08:38 .


#6
DA Trap Star

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I disagree the fighting is the only thing that saves DA:2 imo. Its way more fun than DA:O, but you have to play it on Nightmare to get the full aspect of it. Any level below Nightmare, you won't appreciate it.

#7
billybobjones

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Srsly? It's DAO's combat, but with animations and talents that don't suck.

#8
Akka le Vil

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It's funny how I feel that nearly none of the people who answered, actually bothered to read the first post, and just react to the title...

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 11 mars 2011 - 08:42 .


#9
ScepticMatt

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lol

#10
Merced652

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yea the fighting is awesome, i pop cleave then use scythe, and whirlwind then run around picking up coppers! Don't you dare diminish the depth and complexity of such a system.

#11
JimmyG

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Akka le Vil wrote...

It's funny how I feel that nearly none of the people who answered, actually bothered to read the first post, and just react to the title...


All you said is that everything is ugly or ridiculous.

#12
TheJestersHat

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Well said OP. No doubt you'll be called a troll for daring to criticise the super bestest game eva!

#13
billybobjones

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Merced652 wrote...

yea the fighting is awesome, i pop cleave then use scythe, and whirlwind then run around picking up coppers! Don't you dare diminish the depth and complexity of such a system.


In DAO, my chacters conflict consisted of cone of sold, stonefist, and tempest.

Yup, it changed soooooo much. They really dumbed down DAO's fascinating and sophisticated combat! Let's not forget all the incredibly useless talents that were in that game either!

#14
Chaseroy

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I disagree, the combat in this game is totally awesome.  It's the most fun RPG combat I've encountered in a long time if not ever.

Metroidbum wrote...

Srsly? It's DAO's combat, but with animations and talents that don't suck.


Yes, exactly.

#15
Akka le Vil

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JimmyG wrote...

All you said is that everything is ugly or ridiculous.

Actually, I talked about more than that, but the fact you answered less than a minute after I posted kind of prove that you didn't read anything and just tried to be the fanboy fireman.

#16
Maxilor

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Metroidbum wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

yea the fighting is awesome, i pop cleave then use scythe, and whirlwind then run around picking up coppers! Don't you dare diminish the depth and complexity of such a system.


In DAO, my chacters conflict consisted of cone of sold, stonefist, and tempest.

Yup, it changed soooooo much. They really dumbed down DAO's fascinating and sophisticated combat! Let's not forget all the incredibly useless talents that were in that game either!


Hes got a point.

As a Two Handed Warrior I had three abilities that I spammed: Instant Kill, Definite Instant Kill, AOE Instant Kill

#17
DrunkenMagicianNL

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The combat is boring! I want slow-paced tactical combat like in the Baldurs Gate-series. More diverse enemies (and not just hordes and hordes of stupid undead), more diverse spells, more use for tactics. Origins was a step in the right direction, DA2 is a major step back! Unfortunately it seems that the majority likes to play fast-paced hack and slash games, too bad... :)

#18
Chaseroy

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Metroidbum wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

yea the fighting is awesome, i pop cleave then use scythe, and whirlwind then run around picking up coppers! Don't you dare diminish the depth and complexity of such a system.


In DAO, my chacters conflict consisted of cone of sold, stonefist, and tempest.

Yup, it changed soooooo much. They really dumbed down DAO's fascinating and sophisticated combat! Let's not forget all the incredibly useless talents that were in that game either!


Lol at having to quote you again but, seriously, you are right on.

I really don't get everyone complaining about the lack of strategic depth in the combat relative to DAO.  DAO combat was sooooo straightfoward to the point of being boring.  It was ruled by only a couple of skills, Cone of Cold being the top of the list, and some classes, like the rogue (my favorite, mind) were all but useless.

#19
Merced652

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Metroidbum wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

yea the fighting is awesome, i pop cleave then use scythe, and whirlwind then run around picking up coppers! Don't you dare diminish the depth and complexity of such a system.


In DAO, my chacters conflict consisted of cone of sold, stonefist, and tempest.

Yup, it changed soooooo much. They really dumbed down DAO's fascinating and sophisticated combat! Let's not forget all the incredibly useless talents that were in that game either!


Yea except that whole FF thing that DAO had going on in normal, and if you think da2 has less useless talents then you're nuts. If you want to include every possible fringe build so as to make the case that all da2 talents are worthwhile then i'm pretty sure i can make a solid case for every single talent in DA:O.

I will say one thing though. FF in da2 would be a nightmare, seeing how "fast" everything is it'd be pretty much impossible to negate most instances of FF. That said, i only had to reload for one fight in DA2 on normal. DA:O? Quite a bit more.

Modifié par Merced652, 11 mars 2011 - 08:54 .


#20
Akka le Vil

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Metroidbum wrote...

Srsly? It's DAO's combat, but with animations and talents that don't suck.

So ridiculous speed, waving a huge sword like if it was weighted 10 grams, jumping around like an idiot and having corpses exploding around as soon as you look at them funny, is "animations that don't suck" ?

Wow, we certainly have WILDLY different expectation of what "sucky animations" are like. Because idiotic over-the-top caricatures of action movies animations sure seem to suck much more than somehow realistic ones.

I never found an acrobatic idiot sommersaulting around his staff before actually using it to look awesome. He just looks, well, an idiot.

#21
JimmyG

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Akka le Vil wrote...

JimmyG wrote...

All you said is that everything is ugly or ridiculous.

Actually, I talked about more than that, but the fact you answered less than a minute after I posted kind of prove that you didn't read anything and just tried to be the fanboy fireman.


So I'm the fanboy and you're the hater. Again, who is really wrong?

#22
Kryplixx

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Metroidbum wrote...

Srsly? It's DAO's combat, but with animations and talents that don't suck.


This.

#23
DA Trap Star

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Merced652 wrote...

yea the fighting is awesome, i pop cleave then use scythe, and whirlwind then run around picking up coppers! Don't you dare diminish the depth and complexity of such a system.


It was worse in DA:O.

There was Mana Clash which was a 1 hit KO to all Mage.
Then you had people using Shimmering Shield, Arcane Warrior defenses then Auto Attacking entire boss fights spamming Potions every second.


And actually on Nightmare you can't even use scythe and whirlwind when ever you want. 2H attacks now hit allies on Nightmare. I've had to stop using Mighty Blow because it kills Isabella as soon as I use it.

Modifié par DA Trap Star, 11 mars 2011 - 08:56 .


#24
Blacklash93

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I disagree.

There could be more enemy types, definitely. But other than that I think the combat is much more satisfying than in Origins. And tactics are still a must on the higher difficulties.

#25
RhythmlessNinja

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The fighting is fine, the only problem I have is the over dramatic way the bodies explode for no damn reason, it's just so unrealistic that it just looks retarded and not "cool" at all. And I'll have to disagree about not needing tactics at all, higher difficulty is almost damn near impossible if you just let everyone do as they please further into the game.

Modifié par RhythmlessNinja, 11 mars 2011 - 08:54 .