402 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRealJayDee]

JimmyG wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

JimmyG wrote...

All you said is that everything is ugly or ridiculous.

Actually, I talked about more than that, but the fact you answered less than a minute after I posted kind of prove that you didn't read anything and just tried to be the fanboy fireman.

So I'm the fanboy and you're the hater. Again, who is really wrong?

Call me oldfashioned, but I'd normally give the cake to the person with the comprehensible arguments.

[Therefore_I_Am]

It's not so much the mechanics of the combat that get to me... it's the animations. The setting does not even fit with the oriental based weapon swinging. It seems like the game is made for the endless hordes of asian kids age ~17. Even some of the character designs got me scratching my head but that's for a different thread.

Other than that everything else is alright : )

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 15 mars 2011 - 04:33 .

[Manlytears_sexybeast]

Kamifel wrote...

two complainers who didn't buy the game but say they know the gameplay .

Kudo !

One Bioware employee.

[Noob451]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Soooo... you want slow dumbed down fighting rather than a style that forces you to think on your feet while simultaneously forcing you to conserve resources unless truly needed?  Basically you want an easy relaxing game, amiright?

For everyone one of you morons that keep talking about how the combat has lost its tactical element, I see another idiot that hasn't bothered to read the descriptions on the abilities they are picking.  You obviously haven't bothered to look at how rogue disorient leads to warrior stuns.  Or how mages can freeze (brittle) an enemy(ies) and allow other characters to follow up with a shatter.  Are you even playing the game?  Or just ****ing from watching youtube?

Go ****** off and play your paper games, that's more suited for your level of ineptitude. 

If anything is wrong with this game its not the combat.  Its the lack of a true villain.  Its the lack of feeling a part of the story.  Mainly because the story is almost nonexistent. 

I love you.

[irvm89]

How are the animations repulsive? I love the fast-paced combat and the animations. They give me a sense of immersion and they make my characters feel threatening, even though they're really much weaker than the DAO characters. I've been playing on Hard difficulty since I felt Normal was much too easy and the difficulty spike is noticeable. I actually need to use the abilities given to me to kill a threatening enemy (like a Mage or Assassin) as fast as possible. The longer they stay alive, the harder the fight becomes. In DAO, the most threatening thing was a Mage and they died in 3 hits.

The animations and game play for DA2 is much better and feels more powerful than DAO, even though the characters are, again, really weaker than The Warden and his companions. Having played all 3 classes in DAO and ranking up 400 hours played, I'm glad that playing classes actually involves PLAYING them rather than turning on nearly every sustained ability you have and watching your characters auto-attack enemies to death for 50+ hours straight. The most engaging part of playing a melee rogue was getting him behind enemies and watching most Elites die in 3-5 backstabs. Bosses in 10-15 on NIGHTMARE.

Not tactical enough? Maybe for you it's not or if you play on Normal. I have to pause the game far more times on just Hard to figure out what to do next and what target needs to be burned down and to get a Stun on the Commanders when they use their commands. Combat feels much more punishing and no matter what you do, you can actually get screwed over later in the fight. I actually had to go into my Tactics and make custom tactics and reactions for each character. In DAO, I only ever paused the game to make Morrigan, Wynne, Anders, or Veleana rez someone who died. The most involvement I had with Tactics there was telling my Mages to stop casting Rock Armor and Cleansing Aura. The only times I've died on Nightmare was on the very first pull of the Tower of Ishall with the Genlock Emissary and on The Harvester in 50+ hours of gameplay. In DA2 Hard, I die about every other pull... and I look better doing it. Unless it's Ancient Rock Wraith. That thing gives me more of a headache than The Harvester did.

I'm even outfitting my characters with Cold Weapon Runes and Lightning Ward Armor Runes to get ready for Ancient Rock Wraith again. Runes in DAO involved jamming everything with Paralyze and Lightning for DPS and Hale and Resistance for tanks. Armor runes? I used Willpower for DPS, Resistance for Justice. Honestly, I think Armor runes were absolutely worthless.

Maybe I'm blind, but I'm not seeing the issues with game play some vocal players are complaining about. The only game play issue I have is the Maker's Sigh bug. My character also feels much more helpless in DA2 than my Warden did. The only time I felt helpless as a Warden was when I left my family to die at Highever.

They're both amazing games set in the same universe. They're both different in terms of storyline and game play. In my opinion, Origin's storyline was better but the game play in 2 is better.

Modifié par irvm89, 15 mars 2011 - 05:29 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

The Brigand wrote...

Makeshift Riot wrote...

Because a mage should just stand there and do the same thing over and over? That's realistic to you?

If you're right handed, how often do you attempt to write or draw with your left hand? With your feet? Nose? Ears? I'd imagine casting spells would be similar: You find the method that works best for you, and you stick to that method because using other methods would produce inferior results.

So while the old "staff poking" animations from Origins might be boring to some, I also think they're remarkably realistic, at least as far as fantasy elements like magic are concerned.

The staff is something of a magic rifle... and in DA:O, it was used more like a rifle would be used. 

People only use rifles by spining, twisting, and firing over their shoulder in bad action movies.

[Killjoy Cutter]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

I'm at a loss as to how people can actually think the combat in DA2 is worse.

DAO was a game that was played in spite of its combat, not because of it. If you argue, you obviously haven't played a dual wielding cunning rogue.

I can understand having a little problem with the way the waves of enemies come in. I'd probably prefer fewer, but stronger enemies... and not constantly having my mages in back getting flanked by adds in every fight.

I can even see a minor quip with the over the top animations. That's simply going to be a personal preference thing though.

But to me, this whole argument just registers a bit too much like when Mass Effect 2 dropped and the haters came out of the woodwork to contest what was an obviously much improved system.

See above for another post where someone says "If you don't agree with me you're ignorant" and "anyone who doesn't like what I like is a hater".

[Killjoy Cutter]

Oh, as for the part about tactics, both DA:O and DA2 have a sort of "soft tactical" setup that requires thought but not painfully accute attention to detail. That's not really the issue here.

The bad-anime-on-amphetamines combat animations and the grenade-in-chunky-salsa NPC deaths are the issue.

[DDDDD7777]

JimmyG wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

JimmyG wrote...

All you said is that everything is ugly or ridiculous.

Actually, I talked about more than that, but the fact you answered less than a minute after I posted kind of prove that you didn't read anything and just tried to be the fanboy fireman.

So I'm the fanboy and you're the hater. Again, who is really wrong?

Obviously there will always be people who actually think that DA 2 is well-made and obviously those people are wrong.

I'm gonna play the game but still I have to be objective and understand that Bioware and EA made a bad job.

I didn't even pay for the game so I understand that people who actually spend money on this complains about some aspects of the game.

[Akka le Vil]

Demonicom wrote...

It occurs to me that this whole argument could be ruled null and void had the auto-attack feature been enabled.
I dislike spamming the X button (I play on PS3) just as much as the next guy, but it IS refreshing to see a different take on the combat system, especially since I've played DA:O through so many characters.

I fail to see where I talked even ONCE of the auto-attack. So your idea that the argument is based on it is pretty weird.
Did you even read the post, or did you just read the title ?

[DxWill10]

Those who bought the game and hate the fighting animations: Did you do any research whatsoever? Why on earth did you buy this game?

[Auru]

I think the combat is MUCH improved over DA:O, and I liked it just fine in that game too

I do miss the finishing moves though.. was some sick kills in origins

[TMZuk]

I want fighting that looks believable! Not realistic, but believable. This is a joke. It offended me in the demo, and even more so this past weekend when I actually tried my hand at the game.

It is so utterly unbelievable, and over the top ridiculous, that it ruined every little bit of immersion the cutscenes were able to give to me. Abyssmal.

P.S. No, I don't own the game, and after having attempted to play it this past weekend, I very much doubt I ever will.

[Il Divo]

Meh, between the two I vastly prefer DA2's fast and frantic style over Origin's attempts. I did not find Origins realistic or entertaining in terms of combat style, especially as an Arcane Warrior which is an auto-attack machine. DA2 at least achieves the entertaining part. It's also the first RPG system where I've honestly been inspired to play anything other than a caster.

I have no problems with people preferring Origin's style, but I personally don't see how it even comes off as anything besides boring.

[stewie1974]

somebody dosn't like something... does the president know, stop the presses this should be headline news.

Side note.

Get a life.

[Eventide]

I like the combat better, but yeah, the animations look ridiculous and I still don't understand why they made it like that, I mean isn't their a way to create more satisfying, faster combat without jerky, unnatural movements? And the swarm of enemies everywhere is REALLY irritating.

[Eventide]

Plus there's no finishing moves or that cool sound that comes along with them, I'm completely baffled why they did away with that entirely.

[cofcof]

belwin wrote...

yes,
and the 8 foot jump to finish off ogres and dragons in DA:O wasn't immersion breaking.

it was

hopefully one day we will get some rpg with atleast somewhat realistic combat(gothic 1 and 2 were pretty good in that regard)

or maybe even rpg where at the end of the game you didnt kill a small town

[Killjoy Cutter]

DxWill10 wrote...

Those who bought the game and hate the fighting animations: Did you do any research whatsoever? Why on earth did you buy this game?

Because there are other things about DA:2 I like and it's still a good game on an objective scale of published games.  

The world isn't divided between haters and slobbers.  There's room for a lot of nuance and reasoned criticism and praise between the two.

[Makeshift Riot]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The Brigand wrote...

Makeshift Riot wrote...

Because a mage should just stand there and do the same thing over and over? That's realistic to you?

If you're right handed, how often do you attempt to write or draw with your left hand? With your feet? Nose? Ears? I'd imagine casting spells would be similar: You find the method that works best for you, and you stick to that method because using other methods would produce inferior results.

So while the old "staff poking" animations from Origins might be boring to some, I also think they're remarkably realistic, at least as far as fantasy elements like magic are concerned.

The staff is something of a magic rifle... and in DA:O, it was used more like a rifle would be used. 

People only use rifles by spining, twisting, and firing over their shoulder in bad action movies.

No I agree, but at the same time you're not supposed to be an average person with a sitck. I enjoy the cinimatics of it because it's a game that had no basis in reality to begin with.

But what bothered me about the first one is that no matter what talent it was the same animation with the mages and it was boring and kind of a dull experience to play. Spell casting should involve gestures and not the same one for every talent; when I cast a spell behind me my whole character doesn't and shouldn't have to turn all the way around to do it. That isn't realistic, complain about the stick fire all you want, but the reactiveness of the characters is better and more reaslitic in this game than the last.

I just find it nitpickery from people who are simply determined to hate the game because it's not exaclty the same.

[Il Divo]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The staff is something of a magic rifle... and in DA:O, it was used more like a rifle would be used. 

People only use rifles by spining, twisting, and firing over their shoulder in bad action movies.

I gotta disagree with this. Watching Gandalf spin his staff in Return of the King while killing orcs left and right was incredibly satisfying. It certainly added to my enjoyment while wielding the Staff of Parthalan, being able to launch a fireball than turn around and stab someone with my sword-staff.  

[Killjoy Cutter]

Il Divo wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

The staff is something of a magic rifle... and in DA:O, it was used more like a rifle would be used. 

People only use rifles by spining, twisting, and firing over their shoulder in bad action movies.

I gotta disagree with this. Watching Gandalf spin his staff in Return of the King while killing orcs left and right was incredibly satisfying. It certainly added to my enjoyment while wielding the Staff of Parthalan, being able to launch a fireball than turn around and stab someone with my sword-staff.  

That's melee with the staff, which absolutely should have a lot of motion and movement, as that is how staves are fought with as melee weapons. 

I was referring to the use of the staff as a magic-firing ranged weapon, which Bioware somehow confused with batton-twirling in the time between DA:O and DA2. 

My preference would be for ranged combat with the staff to look like DA:O, and melee with the staff to look like DA2. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 15 mars 2011 - 06:26 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Playing DA 2 for me is like watching an incredibly cheesy SyFy original fantasy movie with the worst combat choreography I've ever seen, yet has suprisingly good dialogue sequences with pretty decent voice acting. But we're talking about the combat. The combat really hasn't changed much since Origins but removing the tactical camera just sucks and the animations are just terrible. I find myself grinding my teeth seeing rogues flip around and toss smoke bombs or do a spinning kick to launch a flask then vanishing suddenly like Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet to do a backstab.

The mages seriously try to look like they are doing something intense even when firing magical bolts from their staves. Does it really take that much effort, spinning around and twirling their staves just to fire a bolt? And the animation repeats itself like crazy, mages must burn 10,000 calories during a boss fight. Shouldn't the spell animations be the most interesting ones, not the generic staff attack animations? And yet the generic staff animations repeat themselves so often, I find them just distracting and obnoxious rather than entertaining. I never thought the leisurely generic staff attack animation from Origins would shine till I saw the goofy breakdance loop of animations mages do in DA 2. It looks like it takes more effort to shoot a paltry magic bolt from a staff than it does to shoot a fireball or even just pick up a bow and fire an arrow. Why use the staff then?

Warriors seem to have the best animations, but they still seem off, like Thedas has moon gravity and the overly huge weapons don't seem to have any collision with what they hit. There doesn't seem to be much momentum or much basis for martial theory in the motions. But hey, at least it is better than the river-dancing-rogues or the break-dancing-mages.

[BiowarEA]

This is how you make decent hack and slash RPG combat system Bioware (if you HAVE to go down that route):

www.youtube.com/watch 

[Akka le Vil]

irvm89 wrote...

How are the animations repulsive? I love the fast-paced combat and the animations. They give me a sense of immersion and they make my characters feel threatening

I don't really see how clownesques movements can immerse yourself in the game, or make someone looks like threatening.

Who is the guy impressive : the flashy big mouther jumping around and waving hands uselessly, or the quiet, efficient killer ?
Sorry, but the latter is definitely more threatening.

As for the immersion, how immersive is it to see someone making dumb acrobatics when he fights for his life ? Seriously ?