402 réponses à ce sujet

[Akka le Vil]

HorrorScope wrote...

So you don't like the games combat or others opinions if they differ. Makes it's tough to be on this end of the keyboard. It seems the only way to come out clean here is to just simply agree whole-heartedly with you. Almost like an offer I can't refuse.

You don't see the difference between someone who disagree with the content of the OP, and someone whose answer has nothing to do with said content ?

I know a friend, he thinks it's a wonderfully exillerhating action game. I try to tell him he's wrong, he looks at me funny, he doesn't understand how I can tell him what he likes. But he's trying.

Well, I have a friend who thinks that Independance Day is a great, deep and very thought-challenging movie.
Does that mean he's right or just that his tastes are crappy ?

I can enjoy frenzied action like anybody else. But I tend to enjoy it more when it's actually fitting the style. Story-driven RPG with emphasis on believable world history and settings clashes horribly with over-the-top action-based fighting style.

[greckoboy]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. In a world in which you can slit your wrists, turn into a walking zit, and summon demons as a result, I'm sure someone doing a knife lunge while mid backflip certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility.

That's because it's...well...magic. That's how games like mass effect and dragon age are SUPPOSED to work, right? Take a world very similar to ours in terms of physics (like, you know, gravity and forces and stuff), add in a fantasy element (creater/old gods/races/magic/fade{and the darkspawn that flows from that} and mass effect) and see how things play out.

T don't remember hearing about rogues having superhuman teleportation powers and the ability to make enemies explode with the touch of a whatever-that-weapon-is. It's clearly not magic, so what is it? Plus level 1 rogues can teleport as fast as level 20 ones. Which is why i also don't see the reasoning behind "there's magic so all other unrealistic things are fine".

I do, however, think it is reasonable to say that some things are just done out of necessity. Being able to heal/revive characters when the cutscenes kill characters permanently is part of bioware balancing the fact that this is a game and being able to advance the plot. and someone earlier mentioned how you can't have that much realism and still expect to fight an ogre as a fighter or rogue. That's a good point. But i think it's a matter of how far you go - and unfortunately some things in DA2 were a tad overdone, and not out of necessity either.

[AnnaBananaBamBamBoo]

Much better fighting than DAO. As far as bodies exploding for no apparent reason, I found every body that exploded did it for a specific reason. I look forward to every battle.

[joriandrake]

While there are lots of things I don't like (lack of customization and oversimplification of everything) the combat is something I actually enjoy, this is a first for me from all the Bioware games, normally I just rush over battles in the other games just to get over it quickly, here I actually like to look at the fight

[stewie1974]

greckoboy wrote...

[

That's because it's...well...magic. That's how games like mass effect and dragon age are SUPPOSED to work, right? Take a world very similar to ours in terms of physics (like, you know, gravity and forces and stuff), add in a fantasy element (creater/old gods/races/magic/fade{and the darkspawn that flows from that} and mass effect) and see how things play out.

T don't remember hearing about rogues having superhuman teleportation powers and the ability to make enemies explode with the touch of a whatever-that-weapon-is. It's clearly not magic, so what is it? Plus level 1 rogues can teleport as fast as level 20 ones. Which is why i also don't see the reasoning behind "there's magic so all other unrealistic things are fine".

I disagree that the physics are the same as our reality. Sure things might fall down with the same speed as they do in our  reality, but do we have confirmation from bioware that this is due to with newtons theory of gravity or keplars laws or is there a magical process at work here?

Things fall down at the same rate is like saying a wasp is a tiger because it has stripes.

I know you didn't mention things falling down as a basis of your claim, but you offer no other basis to assume the world has similar physics to our own, other than you just stated it did with out any back up to support the claim. So what you have is nothing more than an observation.

Till it's written in print from an official source that theadas follows the rules of a natural universe instead of a supernatural one, i'm going to say it exists in a supernatural universe created by a creator. In which case...there are NO rigid laws of physics that can't be broken.

Given that there are a lot of things that suspend disbelief in fantasy games, I think its better to say -everything- is magic... dragons are totally implausible anyhow. So an assassin teleporting in and out of combat and becoming invisible is probablly something to do with the constraints of a MAGICAL world ((I.E pretty much no constraints)) rather than one that mirrors our own.

Hell even dwarves use lyrium to embue them with super human abilities, does any one remmeber branka?

Quit complaining about "super human feats" when there has been a precident set right in the very first game. Everyone is super human in dragon age, it's just a lot of people havn't realised thier potential.

[Funkjoker]

HorrorScope wrote...

When you say "How can this be taken seriously". How can any game be taken seriously? It's a fantasy game, game!=serious.

This has been answered _several_ times in this thread.
The main issue here with combat is the credibility and how it fits with the game lore.

DAO is dark, gritty, mature; the combat _reflects_ that and makes it credible.

DA2 is supposed to be in the same mature world, however now you get combat which is nowhere as credible as DAO combat is.

The OP already stated this. Several times. I guess people are reading the first post, jump to the last site and ignore what's been said already; there's too much to read, perhaps?

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 16 mars 2011 - 04:59 .

[Funkjoker]

stewie1974 wrote...

Quit complaining about "super human feats" when there has been a precident set right in the very first game. Everyone is super human in dragon age, it's just a lot of people havn't realised thier potential.

This is basically what all JRPGs are about [they are exaggerated in almost every possible way], however no one who likes DAO [combat] wants this style. It simply doesn't fit with the DAOuniverse. DA2 proves this.

[MingWolf]

While I like the pacing of the combat, I also feel that the combat in DA2 is its weakest point.  I mean, I enjoy how it looks sometimes, but at the same time, It breaks immersion immensely:

-Too flashy.  Take backstab for example, you literally warp behind your enemies to make the blow.  All the flying around and flips don't impress me much either.  It takes anything serious from the game and turns it into a farce when it comes to battles. 

This is totally "flowery fists and embroidered kicks."  Even hollywood doesn't mess it up that bad, or at least, not without good reason.  If this game was intended to be a comedy, I might chuckle at this.  If it were anime, it might just entertain me.  Since it probably wasn't intended to be either, I simply wince.

-Waves?  This probably annoys me the most.  Enemies spawning in waves out of thin air, over and over again.  Seems every battle this can be anticipated.  Where do they all come from?  Why are they there?  It doesn't make sense.  

Even Aristotle believe that you should have some degree of believability in any great epic.  This is not the case here, in my (humble) opinion.  Sure, the combat "feels" better in someways than the original, but I don't buy it... I just, can't believe it for anything more than the show.

Modifié par MingWolf, 16 mars 2011 - 05:25 .

[Funkjoker]

MingWolf wrote...

-Waves?  This probably annoys me the most.  Enemies spawning in waves out of thin air, over and over again.  Seems every battle this can be anticipated.  Where do they all come from?  Why are they there?  It doesn't make sense.

They are popping out of the fate, waiting as long as they can before they are able to attack you. Hence, didn't you see any guardsman being attacked by enemies popping out of the fate? Hawke is really haunted.

As a matter of fact, I'm always wondering that all the DA2lovers even defend this ... epic combat mechanism.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 16 mars 2011 - 05:25 .

[Lord Coake]

Metroidbum wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

yea the fighting is awesome, i pop cleave then use scythe, and whirlwind then run around picking up coppers! Don't you dare diminish the depth and complexity of such a system.

In DAO, my chacters conflict consisted of cone of sold, stonefist, and tempest.

Yup, it changed soooooo much. They really dumbed down DAO's fascinating and sophisticated combat! Let's not forget all the incredibly useless talents that were in that game either!

Really now?  I played offensive sword and board, and I had to dammed well use all my abilities, timed correctly with my standard attacks and ride Wynne, Leliana and/or Morrigan like a field officer to keep buffs/debuffs up, certain enemies stunned, Asassins mark up, ect.

In other words, I didn't play DA:O like I was raiding Icecrown, unlike you and the other button-mashing ADD kids at a loss without AoE capability, apparently.

[augustburnt]

This topic makes it obvious how many people played DAO on easy.

[Funkjoker]

augustburnt wrote...

This topic makes it obvious how many people played DAO on easy.

Your statement is quite childish. Even if anyone plays DAO on easy, it's his decision. While playing DA2 I did set it to easy as I got really bored fighting the same waves of enemies again and again.

In DAO, I'm always using nightmare-difficulty without using DLCitems, as they are too overpowered.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 16 mars 2011 - 05:30 .

[pezit]

AnnaBananaBamBamBoo wrote...

Much better fighting than DAO. As far as bodies exploding for no apparent reason, I found every body that exploded did it for a specific reason. I look forward to every battle.

Try playing an archer, eventually everything explodes from normal shots.

[22nd MadJack]

Double post //

Modifié par 22nd MadJack, 16 mars 2011 - 05:56 .

[22nd MadJack]

AnnaBananaBamBamBoo wrote...

Much better fighting than DAO. As far as bodies exploding for no apparent reason, I found every body that exploded did it for a specific reason. I look forward to every battle.

The combat seems to exist in an alternate reality to the rest of the game; within cutscenes people seem to get stabbed and then fall over, yet in combat they pop like a jam balloon.  For the sake of consistency, when your defunct-class sibling gets killed (for example), he/she should explode and leave your mother to mope over a jammy mound of extremities.

PS.  I find myself in uncharted territory - for once I acctually want to turn down the gore, and for once there is no bloody option to.

Modifié par 22nd MadJack, 16 mars 2011 - 06:03 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

stewie1974 wrote...
I disagree that the physics are the same as our reality. Sure things might fall down with the same speed as they do in our  reality, but do we have confirmation from bioware that this is due to with newtons theory of gravity or keplars laws or is there a magical process at work here?

Things fall down at the same rate is like saying a wasp is a tiger because it has stripes.

I know you didn't mention things falling down as a basis of your claim, but you offer no other basis to assume the world has similar physics to our own, other than you just stated it did with out any back up to support the claim. So what you have is nothing more than an observation.

Till it's written in print from an official source that theadas follows the rules of a natural universe instead of a supernatural one, i'm going to say it exists in a supernatural universe created by a creator. In which case...there are NO rigid laws of physics that can't be broken.

Given that there are a lot of things that suspend disbelief in fantasy games, I think its better to say -everything- is magic... dragons are totally implausible anyhow. So an assassin teleporting in and out of combat and becoming invisible is probablly something to do with the constraints of a MAGICAL world ((I.E pretty much no constraints)) rather than one that mirrors our own.

Hell even dwarves use lyrium to embue them with super human abilities, does any one remmeber branka?

Quit complaining about "super human feats" when there has been a precident set right in the very first game. Everyone is super human in dragon age, it's just a lot of people havn't realised thier potential.

Occams razor.
Fantasy is inspired by reality.

Not only is it the simplest solution, but pretty much everything in TheDas acts exactly the same as it would in our world...with the sole exception of magic.

Humans are normal humans, gravity is gravity. It's a given and it is expected.

As for hte rest - Gamplay and story segragation.

[TJSolo]

Given that there are a lot of things that suspend disbelief in fantasy
games, I think its better to say -everything- is magic... dragons are
totally implausible anyhow. So an assassin teleporting in and out of
combat and becoming invisible is probablly something to do with the
constraints of a MAGICAL world ((I.E pretty much no constraints)) rather
than one that mirrors our own.

There are physical constraints, DA2 is not the Matrix.
Those constraints match our reality so much that the overall world does not need a suspension of belief whenever a character walks around.

[stewie1974]

The fighting is absolutely wonderful.

There, now that's a statement of fact too..

I chose to believe these are all opinions.

Now here are the FACTS.

A. You had a chance to play the free demo to see if you would enjoy the combat... if you didn't and still bought the game  You are an idiot.

B. If you didn't buy the game.. You are a troll for spouting your worthless opinion about something you never purchased in the first place.

[22nd MadJack]

stewie1974 wrote...

The fighting is absolutely wonderful.

There, now that's a statement of fact too..

I chose to believe these are all opinions.

Now here are the FACTS.

A. You had a chance to play the free demo to see if you would enjoy the combat... if you didn't and still bought the game  You are an idiot.

B. If you didn't buy the game.. You are a troll for spouting your worthless opinion about something you never purchased in the first place.

You mean I shouldn't have bought it out of misguided loyalty?  Where were you a month ago my good man, wisdom literally dribbles from your ears.  "Why are you trolling?" says the troll.

Modifié par 22nd MadJack, 16 mars 2011 - 07:49 .

[TJSolo]

A. You had a chance to play the free demo to see if you would enjoy the combat... if you didn't and still bought the game You are an idiot.

This game is more than combat and not liking the combat in the demo may not be enough to deter a person from buying the game. There are people that say they trudged through the combat of INSERT_GAME because the story was good.

B. If you didn't buy the game.. You are a troll for spouting your worthless opinion about something you never purchased in the first place.

Rentals, borrowing, not registering to the game to a BW forum account, etc There are ways to play this game and form an opinion of it other than sticking an icon under you avatar.

[Sithlord715]

How can ANYONE in their right mind sit there and say the combat is better than Origins? I mean HOW? Let's analyze this:

1. Waves after cheap waves of enemies which completely destroys the need for tactical positioning and stamina/mana managment. So you took out the leader and his henchman? Feel good don't you? Low on mana aren't you? Well too bad, because 3 rage demons, a Revenant, an Arcane Horror, and 5 shades just spawned.

Honestly, how can you tell me that that's ok? Sure, if you're playing on Casual, but not if you actually like to be challanged and like playing the game tactically. DO NOT tell me it's just like Origins. Origins didn't have this stupid wave system. This has made me go from Nightmare to Normal in almost all but the most important encounters because I simply have no motiviation to deal with waves of trash mobs over and over when tactics don't even matter

2. The fact that some characters (Varric, mages, etc) can't even move once someone hits them. Let me explain: See a wave of enemies head right towards you? Cool, you figure you'll lay some movement impairing abilities and reposition. But oh wait! One of the enemies has hit you, making you "fall down" or "stagger". It's alright, once you get you'll move. But oh, that's right, you can't, because you're simply getting pummeled to death with no chance of doing ANYTHING AT ALL. Looks like you're dead

3. The exploding bodies is just ridiculous. Look, when someone is reciving a horizontal slash across their abdomen, it should CUT THEM IN HALF, not make them explode into tiny little bits. And where the heck are the awesome killing animations from Origins? What, was that too unrealistic to finish an enemy off by cutting their heads off for example? Oh no that's right, enemies who explode to bits is far more realistic...

As for the Mage and Rogue animations, well, I'm not going to lie, I actually liked those, as well as the new spell effects

[Demonicom]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Demonicom wrote...

It occurs to me that this whole argument could be ruled null and void had the auto-attack feature been enabled.
I dislike spamming the X button (I play on PS3) just as much as the next guy, but it IS refreshing to see a different take on the combat system, especially since I've played DA:O through so many characters.

I fail to see where I talked even ONCE of the auto-attack. So your idea that the argument is based on it is pretty weird.
Did you even read the post, or did you just read the title ?

I know you didn't talk about auto-attack in the OP, hence why my paragraph started with "It occurs to me", thus indicating that I had an idea to add to your argument.

Not really a reason for you to add the last line in your reply, huh?

[Sithlord715]

Demonicom wrote...

It occurs to me that this whole argument could be ruled null and void had the auto-attack feature been enabled.
I dislike spamming the X button (I play on PS3) just as much as the next guy, but it IS refreshing to see a different take on the combat system, especially since I've played DA:O through so many characters.

I fail to see how making the combat system worse by having you mindlessly mash a button is "refreshing"

[Dreadstruck]

I don't mind the exaggerated animations. But dear god there are people actually defending the instagib body explosions that happen even after a simple backstab?

I wouldn't mind them too.... if they weren't happening like 70% of the time and an constant gorefest gets old and tedious quite quick. >_>

This isn't some *realism* issue that apologists like throw around so much, it's just bloody annoying and ridiculous.

In my opinion.

Modifié par Avalla'ch, 16 mars 2011 - 08:40 .

[Demonicom]

Sithlord715 wrote...

Demonicom wrote...

It occurs to me that this whole argument could be ruled null and void had the auto-attack feature been enabled.
I dislike spamming the X button (I play on PS3) just as much as the next guy, but it IS refreshing to see a different take on the combat system, especially since I've played DA:O through so many characters.

I fail to see how making the combat system worse by having you mindlessly mash a button is "refreshing"

.........I said "I dislike spamming the X button.  I really can't make that any clearer.
I also said "it IS refreshing to see a different take on the combat system, especially since I've played DA:O through so many characters".

Now I know I wasn't being very clear there, but, rephrased, that paragraph means:  "I like the new combat animations and the way the new combat system works.  I do not like hitting the X button all the time though."

Does that work?