402 réponses à ce sujet

[HorrorScope]

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

Hmm, tell me, HorrorScope, which RPGs are your all-time favorites? [with special attention in terms of combat, of course ^^]

Action:
Divinity 2 DKS
Witcher
Fable
DnD Online
DA2
Gotihic 2 NOR

Tactical:
Wizardry 8
Many old turn-based. Some: Plane, Dungeon Master, EOB's
HOMM/AOW's/KB's/MoM Style

Sure I'm missing some off the top.

I agree if you are wanting a turn-based/#'s based RPG, this game here isn't it at all.

[Akka le Vil]

Valenithe wrote...

You know, it's threads like this that make me wanna kill people who think their opinions matter. Don't like it? Don't fu**ing play it. Simple. Bored with it? Stop playing it. Come back to it later when you want some hack and slash with alittle story added. I just hate it when someone makes a thread like this, and starts to bash other people who are bringing up their own opinion. Noone cares if you don't like it. Cool if you do like it. But if you don't, shut the hell up.

Hello, does "feedback" ring a bell ?

No, I thought not. After all it's just the very reason why these forums exist, why should we bother with it, eh ?
I also like the reasoning "I hate people who think their opinion matter. You should only post if your opinion is the same as me !". A splendid mex of fanboyish hypocrisy and stupidity. Congrats (or not) for breaking another level of idiocy.

So well, could you apply your own logic to yourself ? You don't like the thread ? Don't f-ing read it.
Here, see, it wasn't hard.

[Schneidend]

Merced652 wrote...

yea the fighting is awesome, i pop cleave then use scythe, and whirlwind then run around picking up coppers! Don't you dare diminish the depth and complexity of such a system.

Right, because Taunt > Force Field > Storm of the Century is sooooooooooooooo much more deep and nuanced.

[Phonantiphon]

I think the fighting's great actually.

[dragoonz]

da2 game combat is way better than dao , try play on nightmare first before you post

[SmokeyTheBear]

Fable 2 and 3.

'Nuff said.

Don't get me wrong, I love those games a LOT, same with DA2. But they use over-the-top-stuff and are more ARPG oriented too. And there are even more atrociously over-the-top RPGs out there.

DA is doing great for the current industry. Give me one that's better. BESIDES the Elder Scrolls.

[Rumtruffle]

i love the combat system. i find it faster paced and better for it. couldnt care less where the enemies spawn from, how many there are or if they spawn at all.
i will agree that some boss fights seem like the enemy has just received a massive defense and health boost rather than doing something clever with its attacks. but its minor.

and as for someones comment about it being an interactive movie.
its brilliant - i just watched an interactive movie for 35 hours, and enjoyed every minute of it. the price per hour is far superior to any other movie ive watched.

[Persephone]

Metroidbum wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

yea the fighting is awesome, i pop cleave then use scythe, and whirlwind then run around picking up coppers! Don't you dare diminish the depth and complexity of such a system.

In DAO, my chacters conflict consisted of cone of cold, stonefist, and tempest.

Yup, it changed soooooo much. They really dumbed down DAO's fascinating and sophisticated combat! Let's not forget all the incredibly useless talents that were in that game either!

IMO the combat system was DAO's weakest link, mechanics wise. (Right up there with the "approval" system that keeps punishing you if you DARE to disagree with your companions!) DA2 revamped that rather nicely while not changing it too much. The pace is faster, more involved and I LOVE using the new skills.

[Edli]

dragoonz wrote...

da2 game combat is way better than dao , try play on nightmare first before you post

Gotta love that knockback over and over again making you unable to react till you die.

[upsettingshorts]

Edli wrote...

Gotta love that knockback over and over again making you unable to react till you die.

"Oh no, the game presented me with a challenge that I am initially unable to cope with!"

[Edli]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Edli wrote...

Gotta love that knockback over and over again making you unable to react till you die.

"Oh no, the game presented me with a challenge that I am initially unable to cope with!"

That's not a challenge. I keep getting knocked down over and over again without any way to react to it. By the time my mage finishes the animation of going up I get another hit and I'm down again. I understand 1 out of 2 hits may knock me down but not every one of them. That's ridiculous and it reminds me of the bugfest Two worlds was. Had the same experience with it.

[upsettingshorts]

It's not a bug, you weren't playing optimally.

[Edli]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

It's not a bug, you weren't playing optimally.

Since you botherd to respond at least writte another line and explain it.

[upsettingshorts]

Well, without seeing it in action, for one your mage shouldn't be taking melee damage. If he is, you weren't moving him enough or he's simply engaging the wrong target, or not using crowd control abilities (like say, Mind Blast or the Glyphs) judiciously. Furthermore a number of different classes have abilities that automatically come to the aid of others, such as Back-to-Back for rogues, which would come in handy for cases where your mage (whether you control him/her or not) is backed into a corner and getting chain CC'd.

If you find your mage or other squishies getting consistently swarmed by melee, then there are greater issues - namely aggro and party use of crowd control - that could use some additional tinkering. Nightmare is hard, and hard in sometimes frustrating ways, but there are answers in different abilities, different party makeups, and different approaches.

[Schneidend]

Taunt and CC are your friends, Edli.

[Edli]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Well, without seeing it in action, for one your mage shouldn't be taking melee damage. If he is, you weren't moving him enough or he's simply engaging the wrong target, or not using crowd control abilities (like say, Mind Blast or the Glyphs) judiciously. Furthermore a number of different classes have abilities that automatically come to the aid of others, such as Back-to-Back for rogues, which would come in handy for cases where your mage (whether you control him/her or not) is backed into a corner and getting chain CC'd.

If you find your mage or other squishies getting consistently swarmed by melee, then there are greater issues - namely aggro and party use of crowd control - that could use some additional tinkering. Nightmare is hard, and hard in sometimes frustrating ways, but there are answers in different abilities, different party makeups, and different approaches.

I don't know if you played a mage in nightmare. I know about cc and aggro management, I have a bit of experience with mmos and rpgs. With enemies spawning from everywhere you can't expect from the warrior to aggro every single enemy. One enemy that just spawns may attack my mage and it takes only one to start the knock down loop  which is little you can do against it.
My mage gets hit once and goes down, by the time it gets to stand up it gets hit and down again. You can't use any single skill to cc or even escape.  By the time it takes to build up aggro with another character on the enemy, my mage is already dead.
Tell me a game where every hit from the enemy causes a knock down. Every single one. Let's not speak about the irritating queue clearing when my char gets knocked back or knocked down.

[upsettingshorts]

Don't control your mage on nightmare, your warrior needs more micromanaging than tactics can handle. Or pause more.

And why should other games have the same mechanics?

[Dutch105]

I can only speak from the demo of DA II and having recently begun a new playthorugh of Origins before I start DA II, but the combat comparison between the two is rather large at a superficial level, but utterly the same once you get past the faster animations.

I love Origins, but what has frustrated me playing it just now is the constant shuffle as characters try to get into position to start swinging their sword. I can look past it, but it was certainly noticeable having gone straight from the demo of DA II to playing Origins. The speed of the characters in Origins is also a bit frustrating.

In contrast, the characters in DA II don't do the same sort of shuffle - they leap in and start attacking which I think is a great improvement - it's much smoother than transitioning between attack enemy 1 animation, walk animation, attack enemy 2 animation.

Having said that, these are actually superficial changes, at least on PC with the option of auto attack. The combat system is not that different, absence friendly fire on the lower difficulties. I found myself pausing just as much, switching between characters just as much as I'm now doing on Origins. The loss of friendly fire on lower difficulties is a bit of a bummer, as I think this is what made magic feel a bit more risky and dangerous, but I shall raise the difficulty up to nightmare in order to get it.

What I can't understand is why people think faster animations therefore mean a dumbed down experience. I can definitely see why the lack of auto attack might give the game a different feel so can understand those concerns. As for the spawning waves, I thought that added tactical depth since you have to prioritise enemies and keep changing position. But I can see why it might get a bit annoying if every fight is like that.

[Edli]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Don't control your mage on nightmare, your warrior needs more micromanaging than tactics can handle. Or pause more.
 

If it was for me I'd rather control the entire party like in DA:O but the lack of iso and the speed of combat forces me to stick with one character like DA:O on consoles was and since I like to play with a mage apparently by your advice I'm forced to control the warrior or just lower the difficulty.

A big problem is the clearing of queue when a character gets knocked back and this absolutely needs patching. I give a order to Varric to execute x skill and than go to my mage, he gets knocked back and forgets the skill I queued for him which forces me to go back to him and keep spamming the skill till he executes it or just leave him do whatever he wants and just stick with my mage. This discourages the party managment.

Modifié par Edli, 17 mars 2011 - 10:38 .

[SkittlesKat96]

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

The fighting is fine, the only problem I have is the over dramatic way the bodies explode for no damn reason, it's just so unrealistic that it just looks retarded and not "cool" at all. And I'll have to disagree about not needing tactics at all, higher difficulty is almost damn near impossible if you just let everyone do as they please further into the game.

That last boss in the deep roads is a tough one.

EDIT: Mind you Fenris and Anders were my only good high damage/dps characters with me, me (Hawke) and Aveline were just there as tanks (I use the defender skill tree and it makes you pretty hard to hurt sometimes)

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 17 mars 2011 - 10:56 .

[Akka le Vil]

Dutch105 wrote...

I love Origins, but what has frustrated me playing it just now is the
constant shuffle as characters try to get into position to start
swinging their sword

Yes, this one (and the fact that characters would just push others out of the way, making it impossible to actually block a path with your warriors) made me slam my head against the wall.

But, as it has been pointed several time, world is not binary, and the failing of this game aren't somehow magically fixed because another game had other problems.
They could have fixed all this without needing to go overboard in childish flashy moves.

What I can't understand is why people think faster animations therefore mean a dumbed down experience.

1 - Immersion. Big explosions and over-the-top dumb animations cater to the same crowd than simplistic action movie without a thought but with plenty of big things moving fast on the screen. Idiotic and anti-immersive circus on screen don't make the game more refined.
2 - Lots of foes, lots of AoE, spawning out of thin air and the like... There is not just the animations which show a deep redesign of the fighting in a beat-them-all direction.

As for the spawning waves, I thought that added tactical depth since you have to prioritise enemies and keep changing position. But I can see why it might get a bit annoying if every fight is like that.

There is absolutely nothing tactical in enemies appearing out of thin air. I can't believe how many people can repeat this nonsense. Securing a zone and using ground are tactical. Something that prevent any planification is NOT tactical.

[Dutch105]

Akka le Vil wrote...

1 - Immersion. Big explosions and over-the-top dumb animations cater to the same crowd than simplistic action movie without a thought but with plenty of big things moving fast on the screen. Idiotic and anti-immersive circus on screen don't make the game more refined.
2 - Lots of foes, lots of AoE, spawning out of thin air and the like... There is not just the animations which show a deep redesign of the fighting in a beat-them-all direction.

I take your point about immersion.  The exploding enemies thing is a little over the top, at least if it happens more than sparingly (a bit like if Origin's finishing moves happened with every foe).  However, I would disagree that the fact that these features are present necessarily means that there is a lack of depth to combat.  And if you're finding it too easy, I would raise the difficulty level.

There is absolutely nothing tactical in enemies appearing out of thin air. I can't believe how many people can repeat this nonsense. Securing a zone and using ground are tactical. Something that prevent any planification is NOT tactical.

I do agree about the lots of foes things being slightly more beat-em-up.  However, again, having these features, including spawning waves, may even add to the immersion.  So in the prologue, you're trying to escape from the darkspawn - it makes sense that they're going to fly in from every direction.  Now if nearly every fight was like that, that would get annoying, and from what i've heard this may be the case with DA II, so you may be making a fair point. 

But spawning waves can have their place - the fight in Redcliffe in Origins as you try to defend a central position with the waves coming in made that battle seem more tough.  It made me pause every few seconds to plan what I was going to do - it's one of my favourite parts of Origins.  It means that you can't just start off with a strategey and implement it as you can if all enemies are on the table at the start.  It means you have to pause and adapt your plan.  Is that not tactical, so long as you can pause and think?

[Alozaps]

Dutch105 wrote...

But spawning waves can have their place - the fight in Redcliffe in Origins as you try to defend a central position with the waves coming in made that battle seem more tough.  It made me pause every few seconds to plan what I was going to do - it's one of my favourite parts of Origins.  It means that you can't just start off with a strategey and implement it as you can if all enemies are on the table at the start.  It means you have to pause and adapt your plan.  Is that not tactical, so long as you can pause and think?

It is true that the Redcliffe battle had a wave-like structure, but the enemies came from either the path leading to the castle or from the lake, and you could see them all coming if you paused and looked hard enough.  In DA2 however, the enemies drop out of thin air in every direction, effectively boxing you in instantly after you just took care of a whole group of foes.  It's pretty ridiculous.  All the tacticality that was in DA:O pretty much went out the window in DA2.

Modifié par Alozaps, 17 mars 2011 - 05:55 .

[Purple People Eater]

The combat is fantastic. DA2 has its problems, but the combat isnt among them. Its every bit as tactical, and fun as Origins, except now your characters dont plod along like zombies when you want them to attack. The waves of enemies feels a bit cheap at times, but its not to bad. Makes for a steeper challenge.

[Vasparian]

Purple People Eater wrote...

The combat is fantastic. DA2 has its problems, but the combat isnt among them. Its every bit as tactical, and fun as Origins, except now your characters dont plod along like zombies when you want them to attack. The waves of enemies feels a bit cheap at times, but its not to bad. Makes for a steeper challenge.

There is nothing tactical about smashing buttons.