402 réponses à ce sujet

[Purple People Eater]

Vasparian wrote...

Purple People Eater wrote...

The combat is fantastic. DA2 has its problems, but the combat isnt among them. Its every bit as tactical, and fun as Origins, except now your characters dont plod along like zombies when you want them to attack. The waves of enemies feels a bit cheap at times, but its not to bad. Makes for a steeper challenge.

There is nothing tactical about smashing buttons.
I love how thats your weak generalization of it. What a simpleton like way to describe it. The tactics are there, if you diddnt use them, its your loss.

[Taltherion]

I also do NOT like the combat, for several reasons.
It's not that it is not tactical - on nightmare, even on hard, I found it challenge enough (except when you use the "taunt, run and let your mages do the rest" tactic).

But:
- it's so exaggerated that it's almost comical (cutting enemies into halves with a mace ... yeah, right ... doing cartwheels in armor in combat) ... I thought the world of Dragon Age was supposed to be dark, gritty and in its way realistic?
- WAVES after WAVES of enemies spawning out of thin air (it's ok when they at least jump down from balconies) ... Ok, some element of surprise, but in EVERY fight? It gets stale quickly.
- Bosses with boss tactics reminiscent of ... gasp ... WoW. If I want to fight such bosses, I play WoW.

To me, despite the "challenge" ... it got stale and boring.

[Tristam25]

Just putting this out there for people who say finishing moves are completely taken out in DA II:

-they have been replaced finishing moves with combo finishes, which do more damage than a normal hit (I think)

-things do fall to pieces quite often when they are killed (decapitation, separation of torso and legs, etc.); it's just not accompanied with a special finish

-when you kill a high dragon (it's in the achievement list so I'm pretty sure it's not a spoiler) it turns the finishing move into a cinematic sequence (this happens for many major bosses).

[Sean]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Metroidbum wrote...

Srsly? It's DAO's combat, but with animations and talents that don't suck.

So ridiculous speed, waving a huge sword like if it was weighted 10 grams, jumping around like an idiot and having corpses exploding around as soon as you look at them funny, is "animations that don't suck" ?

Wow, we certainly have WILDLY different expectation of what "sucky animations" are like. Because idiotic over-the-top caricatures of action movies animations sure seem to suck much more than somehow realistic ones.

I never found an acrobatic idiot sommersaulting around his staff before actually using it to look awesome. He just looks, well, an idiot.

I love the combat for anyone not using a two handed weapon

I had a feeling it would be like this when I saw a gameplay video a while back and I hoped they fixed it in the final game...they didn't.

I can't stand having Fenris in the party because of him being this scrawny guy being able to hold a giant sword about the size of his body and swing it with no issue, it made no sense.

I do like the look of the rogues though since its a bit more realistic with it being just some daggers.

[HorrorScope]

RX_Sean_XI wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

Metroidbum wrote...

Srsly? It's DAO's combat, but with animations and talents that don't suck.

So ridiculous speed, waving a huge sword like if it was weighted 10 grams, jumping around like an idiot and having corpses exploding around as soon as you look at them funny, is "animations that don't suck" ?

Wow, we certainly have WILDLY different expectation of what "sucky animations" are like. Because idiotic over-the-top caricatures of action movies animations sure seem to suck much more than somehow realistic ones.

I never found an acrobatic idiot sommersaulting around his staff before actually using it to look awesome. He just looks, well, an idiot.

I love the combat for anyone not using a two handed weapon

I had a feeling it would be like this when I saw a gameplay video a while back and I hoped they fixed it in the final game...they didn't.

I can't stand having Fenris in the party because of him being this scrawny guy being able to hold a giant sword about the size of his body and swing it with no issue, it made no sense.

I do like the look of the rogues though since its a bit more realistic with it being just some daggers.

Fenris is DA's answer to Wolverine. Taken by will and injected with lyrium the likes no one has seen before. He is a bit super-elfwin.

[Alozaps]

Taltherion wrote...

It's not that it is not tactical - on nightmare, even on hard, I found it challenge enough

Tacticality ≠ difficulty.  Enough said. 

Sure, they can throw an enemy at you that has a giant health bar and takes away half of your health in one blow, but that doesn't mean in the slightest that it becomes more tactical.  I had trouble on Normal on some of the big bosses but it was just a matter of my party piling it and unloading all talents and spells into the boss so it would die ASAP.  Tacticality has been reduced to a very small portion of what DA:O had; it has been replaced with a fast-paced chaotic circus.

Modifié par Alozaps, 18 mars 2011 - 12:49 .

[Shia Luck]

OK.. rather than start a new thread, let's start with the basics for this thread...

I haven't bought the game yet, tho I'd like to because I played NWN for years, enjoyed and replayed KoTOR and got into DA: O .., and apart from that I am not a gamer girl really, so I like BW games but am not going to buy it just because it is BW, cos it doesn't look so good yet. SO the ultimate question is.. "Should I buy this game and why?"

Please read on...



The combat animations in the demo are imho somewhat ridiculous. I won't agree with every thing the OP said but I am having trouble understanding the arguments from the other side so maybe you guys can explain it better?

All the points (except maybe the first) have been made before in this thread, and I have, over the last 3 days, tried to read every post.



Soooooo,

1: Part of DA lore is teleportation is impossible, no? Isn't it a cardinal rule of magic? Yet rogues teleport to backstab, no?

2: Ummmmm exploding bodies from most any hit? I liked e.g. punisher etc 'cos my rogue finally got the ability to knock someone down and do serious damage.. it was special. Overpower is a not very good animation, but it had a measurable effect. A normal hit makes bodies explode in DA2?

3: However, I thought the DA:O animations were slow... tbh, got bored first few times I tried to play after playing NWN for ages. Still not managed to play a two hander. But, DA2 is like on speed, no? It has no basis at all in reality, I understand those comments about realistic in a fantasy game, don't necessarily agree that realistic is that important in a fantasy game, but, a large part of me feels DA2 comabt is just silly. Anyone who claimed it is more realistic really needs to explain how, cos no-one has attempted to yet.

4: The thing that worries me most is this idea of spawning wave after wave with no justification.. I thought that was just demo stuff.... Is it really throughout the game? As often as people mention? Isn't that ridiculous? Sneaky rogue or assassin attacks on your mage seems fun challenge.... Random spawning in seems pathetic, no? How is it tactical if you can't assess the situation?

5: Well I got other questions too but this isn't the thread for it soooooo *grin*

Thanks to anyone, on any side who responds to help *smiling*

Have fun

[zahra]

DA:O :

"Tactics" =

1. 2 Mages in party. Everything dies.

2. 1 Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer. Everything dies. Except you.

3. High Cunning Rogue + One Good Tank (Optional): Everything dies pretty quickly. 1 on 1 with the Archdemon on Nightmare = Doable. Refer to numerous youtube videos for authority.

Animations:

I like most of the warrior/rogue animations but when stamina runs out its mostly stabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstab (and the occasional finishing move, hurrah!) and nothing really interesting happens onscreen. Mages do some pokey dance with their staff, the optimal position apparently is to bend knees slightly, simulating rheumatism.

Stuff I miss from DA:O: Setting up battles with tricksy traps with the rogue. (Wonder why no one has ever complained that its "unrealistic" to be completely invisible while walking around in front of your enemies. What magics is this!) But tbqh this was done mostly for fun, and completely unnecessary. DA:O was so easy and repetitive.

I understand some of the gripes, but arguing it on the basis of the loss of "tactics" and "immersion-breaking" (hey, you can stab someone who is three inches away from you and still miss!!) is confusing. Once you figured out a good tactical play it was just a case of rinse and repeat, there was nothing exciting about the tactical gameplay of DA:O. You know something is wrong with the gameplay if you see Flemeth turning into a High Dragon and think "Okay, should I have this sandwich before or after I finish her off?" There were no "Oh shi-" moments.

DA 2: "Lack of tactics" and button-mashing

1. Please try playing on Hard and above and do it without pausing. And post this fight on youtube. Preferably that fight against the assshat templar dude who captures the Qunari.

2. Some of the complaints here are confusing. "Its stupid and brainless because my NPCs keep on getting stunned and can't fight back". Mmmm, perhaps explore the possibility that your build isn't right, or you aren't managing aggro correctly as previously suggested by other forumites?? To say that its stupid because you can't figure it out is like saying Stephen Hawking is an idiot because you can't understand his theories.

3. Enemy waves: I hate it, everyone does. But I will admit that it keeps me on my toes and it adds to a sense of urgency, which was severely lacking in DA:O. I could take my eyes off the game in DA:O for several munutes and still be ok, while doing this in DA2 meant death.

4. You can't solo a mob, you need your team and this is what I appreciate the most about DA2. (As far as I know.)

Tactics is extremely important in DA2 (positioning, chokeholds, when you use your abilities, who is in your party etc etc). And this was inconsequential in DA:O. I have tried it with no mage and all mage, and its still on the easy side.

Animations:

I loved it. Sorry, I do. So sue me. I agree that its a tad fast so sometimes you have trouble keeping track of everything, but I like it in the same way I like watching Jet Li films and kung fu movies where they are flying through bamboo trees. I don't care that it isn't possible in real life, because this is Thedas and the sense of "realism" is in a totally different context. Tbqh it isn't that far a leap from the incongruities with reality that was in DA:O. e.g.: Assassins Feast of the Fallen, Templar powers, Reavers who are normal people who can use blood magic etc etc.


tl:dr: DA:O "tactical"? lol.

[mdugger12]

Zahra........Totally agree. It seems that people like to post nonsense as if nobody remembers playing DA:O

[Pink Leaf]

I was very surprised. I didn't think that Bioware, of all games company's, would opt for childish arcade like combat, and what I am hearing of mobs popping up out a thin air doesn't help matters very much.

[Il Divo]

Pink Leaf wrote...

I was very surprised. I didn't think that Bioware, of all games company's, would opt for childish arcade like combat, and what I am hearing of mobs popping up out a thin air doesn't help matters very much.

What about Jade Empire?

[zahra]

mdugger12 wrote...

Zahra........Totally agree. It seems that people like to post nonsense as if nobody remembers playing DA:O

Yeah, whenever they talk about the wonderful tactical gameplay I feel like I've been playing a different game and there has been a secret of secretest release of DA:O that has been kept from the masses. Because the DA:O I remember, and have played recently, definitely did not have all the mind-bending-super-cerebral-action that some people are talking about. 

[Monica83]

The animations and the teleport things a side of the exploding corpse are utterly ridicolus and brokes tottaly my immersion on the game...I don't accept people that wants a nice story and nice action we have better games for that whitout be rpg... Red dead redemption for example.. Awesome voice acting great action and great story... Its an rpg?... No....
When you strip roleplay elements from rpgs in order to give the focus more in action.. well maybe its time to stop make rpg..

[Jarradane]

I love these threads, over two thirds of the people complaining haven't registered the game, and their comments never contain anything which definitively proves they have played it, yet they go on to belligerently argue about how bad it without paying any real attention to the counterpoints of other posters.

Suspicious no?

[ObserverStatus]

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

The fighting is fine, the only problem I have is the over dramatic way the bodies explode for no damn reason, it's just so unrealistic that it just looks retarded and not "cool" at all. And I'll have to disagree about not needing tactics at all, higher difficulty is almost damn near impossible if you just let everyone do as they please further into the game.

Are you out of your mind?    Bodies that explode for no damn reason  are very cool.  I pick the "bloody mess" perk every time I play fallout.

[SnakeSNMF]

I love the fighting much more than I did in DA:O.
Only problem I have?

TOO MANY MOBS.
HAEHWHWH.

[Monica83]

Jarradane wrote...

I love these threads, over two thirds of the people complaining haven't registered the game, and their comments never contain anything which definitively proves they have played it, yet they go on to belligerently argue about how bad it without paying any real attention to the counterpoints of other posters.

Suspicious no?

you know? exist many legal manner to play a game whitout puchase it... In my case i spended some day on my cousin home and i finished it... But you can also rent it.....

Its always funny when someone comes out with: Ho you haven't register the game so you can't have an opinion....

pleaase

[Jarradane]

Monica83 wrote...

Jarradane wrote...

I love these threads, over two thirds of the people complaining haven't registered the game, and their comments never contain anything which definitively proves they have played it, yet they go on to belligerently argue about how bad it without paying any real attention to the counterpoints of other posters.

Suspicious no?

you know? exist many legal manner to play a game whitout puchase it... In my case i spended some day on my cousin home and i finished it... But you can also rent it.....

Its always funny when someone comes out with: Ho you haven't register the game so you can't have an opinion....

pleaase

It's always funny when someone doesn't read a post in its entirety.

[Monica83]

anyways i maked a small review on the game

[Pink Leaf]

Il Divo wrote...

Pink Leaf wrote...

I was very surprised. I didn't think that Bioware, of all games company's, would opt for childish arcade like combat, and what I am hearing of mobs popping up out a thin air doesn't help matters very much.

What about Jade Empire?

Sorry, I have not played Jade Empire.  Was it focused on the younger game player?

[Il Divo]

Pink Leaf wrote...

Sorry, I have not played Jade Empire.  Was it focused on the younger game player?

It depends on how we mean 'younger gamer'. Jade Empire featured a very basic combat system that involved the PC leaping around like a monkey. Like Jade Empire, Dragon Age II is pretty fast-paced, however I would still say that certain fights do require a good use of tactics (same amount as Origins for me).

Despite the almost comical fighting style, the story in Jade Empire was still able to be pretty mature/complex. I was able to take it seriously in spite of the arcade-style gameplay.

[Rehwyn]

Honestly, I'll take DA2 combat over DA:O any day. With good party tactics, playing my rogue at the end of DA:O was basically 1) turn on sustains 2) attack from behind 3) kill bosses (except Archdemon or crit-immunes) in 30 seconds. It gets boring.

Having a wave spawn on my squishy companions is kinda annoying, but at least DA2 combat is interesting and not a snooze-fest (at least on Nightmare). I actually have to position for choke points and react with abilities instead of just move/click.

[WTFIsThisCrap]

You guys know all of you can register the game here on your account (or accounts, as many as you want) with these codes so you can post in whatever section of the site you want? They're the same for everyone, nothing you cant find by going to your local game retailer and looking at the bar code on the back of the box (or Google).

360 UPC: 014633195019
PS3 UPC: 014633195002

Say bye bye to forum segregation and have fun!

Thanks for the piece of **** game Bioware!

[Ciryx]

Stop whining!

If there is anything were DA 2 is without a doubt better than DA:O, its the combat. Characterbuilds matter more, you can try out more different stuff etc.

And if someone again says that DA:O had such great tactical combat... please, stop embarrasing yourself.

Also, if you think DA 2 is a ButtonBasher, stop playing on casual. Get it up to Nightmare and you will blow yourself apart faster than you can count to three with button bashing. You really need positioning, talents used in the right moement against the right oponents and often even need to change partymembers cause some fights are better to manage with a different group.

Modifié par Ciryx, 18 mars 2011 - 09:45 .

[Goofy McCoy]

Il Divo wrote...

Pink Leaf wrote...

Sorry, I have not played Jade Empire.  Was it focused on the younger game player?

It depends on how we mean 'younger gamer'. Jade Empire featured a very basic combat system that involved the PC leaping around like a monkey. Like Jade Empire, Dragon Age II is pretty fast-paced, however I would still say that certain fights do require a good use of tactics (same amount as Origins for me).

Despite the almost comical fighting style, the story in Jade Empire was still able to be pretty mature/complex. I was able to take it seriously in spite of the arcade-style gameplay.

Jade Empire was a Kung-fu tale, prerequisite crazy asian fighting was completely acceptable because it's what is expected of the setting.

DA2 is leaning mighty heavily towards this kind of wacky nonsense with LOLHUGE SWORDS! and other hokey staples of Japanese games, which trend towards things like "gun-swords".

When they said "gritty", that's what they delivered in DA:O.
DA2 was downright cartoonish. God knows why anyone would join a fight against some dude who is literally EXPLODING people with his sword.