402 réponses à ce sujet

[Akka le Vil]

Joshd21 wrote...

Let me get this straight you DID NOT BUY THE GAME. Yet you are reviewing the combat, based on what? reviews? please buy the game.

If your answer can only be based on something completely unrelated to the main point, then it seems you really have no answer.

The combat is very kick ass, much more fast paced. The graphics are smoother then they have ever been. You can actually shoot a spell and watch the person explode in several pices.

The whole OP was dedicaced at detailling how what your talk about make the combat downright idiotic. Maybe you should actually read it. Or, if you already have read it, understand it.

[LPPrince]

 I play an Archer so thanks for your opinion broseph but I'm gonna disagrizzle with your shizzle.

[MonkeyKaboom]

Akka le Vil wrote...

MonkeyKaboom, what I like about having someone like you argue against me, is that you make my case for me much better than I could ever done it myself.

That's funny.  Really it is.  But in the end it doens't matter.  Because I have a game I enjoy as much as I did DA:O.  You on the other hand, have a paper weight.  A paper weight that you will no doubt try to force your way through to ease your lack of thoughtful investment. 

So you and the rest of your vocal minority can sit here and ****, circle jerk or whatever else you feel the need to do to console your bruised, fragile little selves.

Seriously, go order a pizza.  Call your friends over.  Play your paper games.  You'll be much happier.  ****ing here makes you seem like a retard...

[Bowmangr]

Akka le Vil wrote...

MonkeyKaboom, what I like about having someone like you argue against me, is that you make my case for me much better than I could ever done it myself.

OWNED!
Insults will not get you very far.

@Akka le Vil: Your analysis is 100% true. I totally agree with everything that you've described.

[Stiler]

The two handed animations in DA:O were LAUGHABLY bad. Swords are NOT heavy, I repeat, swords are NOT heavy. A two handed sword could easily be under FIVE pounds, or up to seven'ish. They were no where near "heavy" (it'd defeat the point if swords were heavy, since you have to move them about and everything, you don't want people to get tired easily).

In DA:O the combat animations of using two handed weapons made them look lilke the person was struggling to swing it around, it just didn't look realistic at all.

Meanwhile in DA2 the two handers actually move more realistically in terms of speed (however the size of them are obviously overdone, from the hilt size/width of some).

Also of note you mention realism, and then talk about two weapons oat once? That's not realistic either, using two swords at once would simply be impractical.

Mage wise, I LOVE the auto attack animations a lot more in DA2, in DA:O the mages attack animations were just..well generic guy in a robe and wizard hat bad, it didn't look that neat.

I do agree that the waves of enemies spawning in and some tthings are annoying, and I wish they weren't in like this. It kind of takes away the ability to use tactics for AOE abilities, etc when you can't setup things for where enemies are/will be when they simply spawn from no where.

Also wish we could turn friendly fire on/off apart from the difficulty slider. I want to play on hard, with friendly fire on. IT should be the same as it was in DA:O.

Modifié par Stiler, 11 mars 2011 - 10:29 .

[Akka le Vil]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

****ing here makes you seem like a retard...

Oh, the irony

[MonkeyKaboom]

Melness wrote...
DA:O had very limited intra-class teamwork that was limited to two mages cooperating for a handful of combos, such as Grease Fire and Storm of the Century. Not saying that removing it was the wisest decision, but it was hardly any loss and it was hardly superior to cross-class teamwork.

This

[Joshd21]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Joshd21 wrote...

Let me get this straight you DID NOT BUY THE GAME. Yet you are reviewing the combat, based on what? reviews? please buy the game.

If your answer can only be based on something completely unrelated to the main point, then it seems you really have no answer.

The combat is very kick ass, much more fast paced. The graphics are smoother then they have ever been. You can actually shoot a spell and watch the person explode in several pices.

The whole OP was dedicaced at detailling how what your talk about make the combat downright idiotic. Maybe you should actually read it. Or, if you already have read it, understand it.

But that is the point how can you give a review on something you never even played. You sit here on the fourms, whine and complain about something you have no first hand experience with. Then you claim that the fighting sucks in a figure of speech, yet you have not even been in game.

That's like Game Informer giving a review without actual playing the game, just looking at youtube videos and writing it based on that. That IS THE POINT you haven't played it therefore it's inaccurate what you think.



register your dragon age 2 game then come back, I don't speak to trolls that don't even have the game registered

Modifié par Joshd21, 11 mars 2011 - 10:28 .

[Nerevar-as]

Playing on NM, 99% of the fights have been running away as far as possible to avoid the respawn points (often out of the air), and then try to find a choke point. Not very tactic, I hope as I level up and get the CCCs things change a bit. But no variety at all, all the fights feel like the one against the Harvester, which wasn´t my favorite at all.

I really hate the animations. Is not just the looking stupid thing, but then getting an action interrupted constantly in the middle of a pointless over the top movement, or delayed for a staff twirl, makes me think everybody is an idiot for keeping those movements.

[AkiKishi]

Joshd21 wrote...
register your dragon age 2 game then come back, I don't speak to trolls that don't even have the game registered

What do you gain from registering ?The only reason I registered ME2 was because I had a tech issue.

[MonkeyKaboom]

Bowmangr wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

MonkeyKaboom, what I like about having someone like you argue against me, is that you make my case for me much better than I could ever done it myself.

OWNED!
Insults will not get you very far.

@Akka le Vil: Your analysis is 100% true. I totally agree with everything that you've described.

So because you agree, that makes it truth?  Incorrect.  His analysis is 100% subjective, it is opinion.  It may be true for you but it is not universal.  At which point we go back to, why did you invest in something you knew you wouldn't like? 

And I wasn't "owned" in anything...I'm very free actually.  Furthermore, I'm happy.  You (and the OP) aren't.  Who's in the better position?

Modifié par MonkeyKaboom, 11 mars 2011 - 10:34 .

[General9999]

ok the combat has some issues and bioware fans please dont say it doesnt just dont
1- Waves of enemies appear out of nowhere they just appear out of nothing right beside you can see them spawn first i was like what the hell? ok i let it go this time then but it happen at least 5 times and not they only appear out of nowhere they jump off buildings that would surely break your legs like 20 metres
2-swords are made of paper
dont know why i bother to write that because bioware fans gonna be oh dont play it then just stop that

i dont say i hate the game i said the issues that occured to me

Modifié par General9999, 11 mars 2011 - 10:35 .

[Akka le Vil]

Stiler wrote...

The two handed animations in DA:O were LAUGHABLY bad. Swords are NOT heavy, I repeat, swords are NOT heavy. A two handed sword could easily be under FIVE pounds, or up to seven'ish. They were no where near "heavy" (it'd defeat the point if swords were heavy, since you have to move them about and everything, you don't want people to get tired easily).

In DA:O the combat animations of using two handed weapons made them look lilke the person was struggling to swing it around, it just didn't look realistic at all.

Yep, agree on all points. My use of "heavy two-handers" was to be taken on the relative side, and I already said I admit that DAO's two-handers animations were too sluggish.
They still couldn't be waved like a kitchen knife, and the supersonic animations still look stupid. There is a HUGE gap between "painfully slow" and "ridiculously fast".
THAT was my point - and I can even point I already made it

Meanwhile in DA2 the two handers actually move more realistically in terms of speed (however the size of them are obviously overdone, from the hilt size/width of some).

Also of note you mention realism, and then talk about two weapons oat once? That's not realistic either, using two swords at once would simply be impractical.

Two points :

- First, I used "pseudo-realistic" (to avoid the usual dumb answer "BUT THERE IS MAGIC ! IT'S NOT REALISTIC ! DUUUUH !" that so commonly come up and pollute). The main point is to have something "feels right". Someone cutting the head of another with a shortsword may not be totally realistic (it's, actually, VERY HARD to chop a head, bones are surprisingly resilients), but it's "believable". Waving and slashing at ultra-speed a two-meters chunk of metal, just look over-the-top and ridiculous (unless you're playing Sould Calibur, in which case it's over-the-top and fun, but Dragon Age wasn't really supposed to be in comic's style).

- Second, two-weapon fighting was ACTUALLY USED. Sword and dagger in the italian fencing style, katana and wakizashi in the shogunate japanese style. Sorry, but it's the one example you shouldn't have used for unrealistic thing

(anyway, thanks for a non-insulting, non-idiotic answer ; it's been surprisingly rare in this thread)

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 11 mars 2011 - 10:40 .

[Bowmangr]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

Bowmangr wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

MonkeyKaboom, what I like about having someone like you argue against me, is that you make my case for me much better than I could ever done it myself.

OWNED!
Insults will not get you very far.

@Akka le Vil: Your analysis is 100% true. I totally agree with everything that you've described.

So because you agree, that makes it truth?  Incorrect.  His analysis is 100% subjective, it is opinion.  It may be true for you but it is not universal.  At which point we go back to, why did you invest in something you knew you wouldn't like? 

Because I made the mistake of thinking that my favorite game company, BioWare cannot make a bad game. Unfortunately for everything there is a first time. This is the first BAD BioWare game. I got my refund thankfully.

Next time I'll not preorder their game, I'll wait to see if it is horribly consolized again.

I still don't see your point. How me getting tricked by BioWare {DA2 is NOT Dragon Age, it should have a different name} is relevant?

P.S. Oh, you forgot to insult me. Couldnt find any swears in your post. What happened?

[Atmosfear3]

Dragon Age was supposed to be the "pseudo-realistic and gritty" franchis

Stopped reading right there. I had a good laugh at that one.

[Jademoon121]

Although it looks like something you'd see out of Dynasty Warriors and God of War, the combat in this game is much, much better. Dragon Age Origins had slow and clunky combat, and although I love tactical play I had to pause and wait too much and too long for the combat to be any good. The arguments that the gore is too much and the skills are too extreme is valid, but at least it looks and feels that I'm slicing/stabbing/shocking someone to death.

[james1976]

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

The fighting is fine, the only problem I have is the over dramatic way the bodies explode for no damn reason, it's just so unrealistic that it just looks retarded and not "cool" at all. And I'll have to disagree about not needing tactics at all, higher difficulty is almost damn near impossible if you just let everyone do as they please further into the game.

I don't think DA2 was suppose to be realistic, not by their design anyway.  I do miss finishing moves but I understand why they didn't include them this time around.  I am enjoying the combat, the faster pace suits me better and I play everything on the PC.  I think how fast everyone runs around in combat is a bit silly though.

I agree on Normal you do not need tactics.  But on higher difficulties you do.

[Nerevar-as]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Couldn’t agree more; I’m little over 4 hours into the game and the new combat mechanicsaesthetic are near ruining what otherwise would have been a refreshingly enjoyable experience. Select all, click on the mob, tap buttons furiously and ‘enjoy’ the spazzy animations until done. Truly wretched!

Try Nightmare, and several waves of enemies out of nowhere will beat you. Even with the lack of Friendly Fire I´m considering switching to Hard, not because I´m frustated but annoyed at all fightings being the same nonsense.

[Melness]

Akka le Vil wrote...

The whole OP was dedicaced at detailling how what your talk about make the combat downright idiotic. Maybe you should actually read it. Or, if you already have read it, understand it.

I believe the Original Post can be summarized this way:

I don't like the new animations.
I don't like the new class limitations.
I don't like exploding corpses.
I don't like mass AoE.
I don't like lack of Friendly Fire outside the Nightmare Mode.
I don't like the current design philosophy the puts an emphasys on adds.
I don't like the lack of isometric view.
I don't like resetting command queues after stuns and knockbacks.

I'll comment on it, so if I'm wrong then please correct me.

Combat Animations

I for one actually like the new animations. Not only because of their own value but because I found the old ones from DA:O a bit lacking in both the number of animations and creativity, this is more directed at casting animations than anything. I believe that a compromise can be done but cutting half of the 'awesomeness' from the current animations and bringing them back towards the DA:O but not all the way back.

Besides, I also see no value in 'realism' when it comes to fantasy games. DA:O had many flaws in that department to treat your complaints with seriousness. Arrows, for an instance, can knock people back in real-life, yet I could cast complicated spells with one sticking out of my head, no problem. Don't even get started on the old 'an iron armor can't protect you against a dragon'.

Besides, being a fantasy genre, characters are always flat-out superhuman once past a certain 'level', which isn't that high.

Making classes More Distinct

Not that I didn't play a Warrior Archer or Dual-wielder - I did. But, personally, I found that Warriors and Rogues sharing trees made things tad bit redundant. To 'fix' it, you must make classes more distinct. The easiest is what was done, but you can also make shared weapon styles more distinct between the classes that share them. The latter is what I think BioWare should try next.

Exploding Corpses

Well, I've seen this in almost every RPG I've played... even Baldur's Gate. I can't possibly be annoyed by it anymore.

AoE Fests and Friendly Fire

Spamming AoE, such as Cone of Cold, Flame Blast, Fireball, Inferno, Tempest, Shock, Waking Bomb, Waking Nightmare, Grease Fire, Storm of the Century and so on was more than a viable tactic in Dragon Age Origins. In fact, it was the way to go. So AoE fests aren't an issue per-se, the problem here is that they got worse with the lack of friendly fire prior to Nightmare - completely eliminating the need for tactical positioning.

Encounters and Adds

Adds are interesting. But, apparently, they were handled poorly in DA2. More testing could have avoided this issue, so this is, I believe, a symptom of the EA rush. Just like the bugs and the recycled dungeons.

The Isometric View and Resetting Commands.

I think its pretty much one of the universal issues. The current camera is counter-productive, especially on Nightmare and may force players to circumvent the issue by compromising their own tactics. There's no arguing here.

Now, the resetting commands could become an option instead. Sometimes, when knockback is a reason for you to stop whatever you're doing and run away from the fire. Such as Bethany readying herself to cast <something> but archers stunned her, which may be a reason for you to run away and make use of LoS to lure them into position for an ambush.

Another issue: the recycled Dungeons.

I believe this couldn't possibly be a conscious part of BioWare's design, this must have been a must due to EA's deadline. Yet, it puts a damp on the combat. Its not like Dragon Age is an RTS and you can play the same map over and over again to know all the strong positions.

Modifié par Melness, 11 mars 2011 - 10:49 .

[Akka le Vil]

james1976 wrote...

I don't think DA2 was suppose to be realistic, not by their design anyway.  I do miss finishing moves but I understand why they didn't include them this time around.  I am enjoying the combat, the faster pace suits me better and I play everything on the PC.  I think how fast everyone runs around in combat is a bit silly though.

I really can't, for the life of me, understand how you can find the ridiculous movements, dynamite-filled bodies and supersonic slashes more fun...

I agree on Normal you do not need tactics.  But on higher difficulties you do.

You don't need any in Hard either. That was actually the point of a large part of the first post.

[MonkeyKaboom]

Akka le Vil wrote...

MonkeyKaboom wrote...

So because you agree, that makes it truth?

And because you disagree, it makes me [insert barrage of insults] ?
You're really a master of the (accidental) irony, pal !

No, you are an [insert barrage of insults] because you:

A: Did not research what you were buying
B: Complain about mechanics that are nearly a copy and paste from the previous title, which you seem to have such high regard for.  (skill order queing, the only tactical aspect to either DA:O or DA2)
C: Propose an argument for realism in a fantasy game
D: Seem to think my insults make your point of view any more logical.  I think religion is bollocks too.  Does that make god any less a fairy tale?

[tariq071]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Couldn’t agree more; I’m little over 4 hours into the game and the new combat mechanicsaesthetics are near ruining what otherwise would have been a refreshingly enjoyable experience. Select all, click on the mob, tap buttons furiously and ‘enjoy’ the spazzy animations until done. Truly wretched!

EDIT: the camera is ass

This + you cannot miss ...don't forget small pause after every kill, so that console kids have enough time to tell themselves how "awesome"  or "uber" (whatever their flavor of the day is)  they are...

Divinity II is flow combat if you are asking for H&S type of combat, BGII combat is combat that is decided by numbers and dice roll..this is rather ugly hybrid that dosn't fit either category.

[Joshd21]

Akka le Vil wrote...

james1976 wrote...

I don't think DA2 was suppose to be realistic, not by their design anyway.  I do miss finishing moves but I understand why they didn't include them this time around.  I am enjoying the combat, the faster pace suits me better and I play everything on the PC.  I think how fast everyone runs around in combat is a bit silly though.

I really can't, for the life of me, understand how you can find the ridiculous movements, dynamite-filled bodies and supersonic slashes more fun...

I agree on Normal you do not need tactics.  But on higher difficulties you do.

You don't need any in Hard either. That was actually the point of a large part of the first post.

Also I'm sure Charile Sheen would thank you if you quit using his quoting "Duhh winning!" in the lines of your arugement. Your entire arugment is flawed and it's not posted by me directly. However it's posted by several people clearly detailing why it is flawed. (Duhh 'm winning!) and also your statment is a matter of opinon not a fact. Thanks

Modifié par Joshd21, 11 mars 2011 - 10:51 .

[Dorian the Monk of Sune]

Leo Church 13 wrote...

I think the difference here is some people want NWN with a face lift and others want Mass Effect with swords. I would prefer NWN, preferably with at least 2 person multiplayer, but we have ME 1200AD. They story is good, it is Bioware after all, but it's not what I was hoping for. I'm sure this version will be much more commercially successful though. My only serious complaint now is that the game difficulty on Hard spikes for certain encounters. It seems the recipe is 3 pretty easy fights, then something impossible. Also, with the level of defensive skills needed by tanks without healing, it makes it very hard for them to keep aggro without D2 style pot chugging. Actually that's what this game reminds me of- now I'm off to retire my primal mage and tank. Time to start over with a 2h war and rogue.

Thats kinda how I see it too. You cant target then group of people that prefers point to point action combat without delivering something in the range of Ninja Gaiden or God of War. Power Ranger animations and blood isnt enough. As a far as strategy and depth Bioware started shunking that stuff after BG 2. For lack of a better term KOTOR was a dumbed down BG 2 and Dragon Age was a streamlined KOTOR. DA 2 needed more strategy. You can have a game with strategy and action but its going to take more than an EA dev cycle.

[Simmur]

Bowmangr wrote...

Great post. It describes one of the problems of the game very nicely and in a true way. No trolling here.

I'm simply amazed by how many people find this atrocious combat system good and even more amazed by those that find it "tactical".

I'm pretty sure that they are all people that have played the game for just a few hours and are still enthousiastic about the "awesome" moves the characters make.

This combat system is so flawed that I believe that it is a matter of a few days until we see posts about how "combat was incredible at first but now I'm bored".
Seriously, BioWare fanboys aside, first impressions aside, the combat in DA2 is horrible, mindless and fun only for the first hours of gameplay.

Don't even get me started on the RIDICULOUS exploding bodies. Really now? Is this game for 14 years old kids?

yep, bored