402 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadowcrazy4]

Chancer15 wrote...

OK lets Face it DAO combat was fun while it lasted now it is boring. But chance its Tacticl combat shut up you Baby so is DA2 stop your ****ingg your still going to play it

this is what Bioware is supporting with a game like this....does Bioware REALLY want more people like this? people that just say "OMFG shut up and enjoy the game because I like it...stop disliking things i like"

I think they can find common ground with the battle system...a way to make it button pressed but not button MASH...kind of like GOW...now before anybody get torches let me explain..

in GOW yes it is pretty mashy at times...but when you had different weapons you KNEW you were using different weapons...in GOW3 when you get those lion gauntlets you actually feel the weight put into the strike and see kratos putting strenght into his attacks. in DA2 it's all anime-ish in that you just press the button and instantly as soon as you hit that button you hit the badguy with a giant sword with no weight put into the attack.

in the end DA3 could be the best of both worlds in the combat...make it MATTER with weapons that have ACTUAL WEIGHT and swung REALISTICLY while also adding MORE skills and ways to speed up combat as well. 

but tbh there are more things wrong with this game then JUST the combat...*cough*copy/paste buildings*cough* but as far as combat is I think its the EASIEST thing about both Dragon Age games that could be fixed....just mix the both of them...

make the fighting more button-pressy while still giving weight to weapons so certain weapons have to be slower while also making it that you can have skills to speed up combat and such.

but yeah I hate the current battle system....too fast and anime and it often looks like a dance game rather then an RPG.

[Marionettetc]

I think DA2 is infinitely better than Origins. It's shorter, has less codex entries and no weapon descriptions but all the technical aspects have been improved. I suspect the people complaining about the "pace" of combat simply cannot handle any amount of twitch involved in video games, however - you can still pause and issue commands every round just like in Origins.

I love turn based strategy games, and have played them my whole life. However, since KOTOR I have been able to handle real time aspects in my RPGS and have learned to appreciate what they can bring to the table that static combat cannot. I was never once "excited" during any of the battles in Origins. I may have appreciated them, but none of them ever got my heart pumping. 2 is much more dramatic, invokes more emotions between story and combat and makes me feel like I'm on edge during the battles. I play on hard first for a game while I'm learning the mechanics, I'm switching to nightmare for my next play through.

But really, the schism between gamers concerning Origins and DA2 comes down to the SCA larpers who love to tout realism as a driving factor in FANTASY GAMES, and the sensation gamers - the type who probably love action movies and anime for it's dramatic flair and theatrical license.

I'm not going to impose my opinion on the matter, but I think 2 obviously caters less to the Tolkien crowd (low magic) than the high fantasy crowd. (Conan)

[-Zorph-]

What's repulsive is having to wait to do the fighting.


Yea...

[Eurypterid]

Chancer15 wrote...

OK lets Face it DAO combat was fun while it lasted now it is boring. But chance its Tacticl combat shut up you Baby so is DA2 stop your ****ingg your still going to play it

Posts like this can get you a vacation from the boards. Please review the rules of conduct and refrain from slinging insults. Savvy?

[CubbieBlue66]

I'm at a loss as to how people can actually think the combat in DA2 is worse.

DAO was a game that was played in spite of its combat, not because of it. If you argue, you obviously haven't played a dual wielding cunning rogue.

I can understand having a little problem with the way the waves of enemies come in. I'd probably prefer fewer, but stronger enemies... and not constantly having my mages in back getting flanked by adds in every fight.

I can even see a minor quip with the over the top animations. That's simply going to be a personal preference thing though.

But to me, this whole argument just registers a bit too much like when Mass Effect 2 dropped and the haters came out of the woodwork to contest what was an obviously much improved system.

[oblivionenss]

The first thing that made me go Uh, over the battle was that ridicolus backstab ability, especially if you remembered this: http://dragonage.wik..._Rules_of_Magic.

And then the animation where the mages whirled around and the fighters jumped the last metres in fullplate!!!!

And the neverending stream of random spawning enemys felt like I took out whole kirkwall in one encounter.

[Shadowcrazy4]

CubbieBlue66 wrote... the haters

smart of you to put that near the end of your post...as i would have quickly stopped reading after seeing this word if it was in the beginning like i just did near the end.

seriously annoys me when a different opinion automatically makes someone a "hater" or a "troll" just because they don't like something you think is "OMFG FLAWLZZZ"....we use a name for people like this...fanboys...nobody likes a fanboy sir

[SamilTane]

I think the problem is more that Bioware decided to change the combat style to something completely and utterly different, and not so much that combat is worse. It's generally a bad idea to totally change a product when the product already has a faithful following.

[icefire65]

Have fun getting banned by Woo.

[DariusKalera]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

I'm at a loss as to how people can actually think the combat in DA2 is worse.

DAO was a game that was played in spite of its combat, not because of it. If you argue, you obviously haven't played a dual wielding cunning rogue.

I can understand having a little problem with the way the waves of enemies come in. I'd probably prefer fewer, but stronger enemies... and not constantly having my mages in back getting flanked by adds in every fight.

I can even see a minor quip with the over the top animations. That's simply going to be a personal preference thing though.

But to me, this whole argument just registers a bit too much like when Mass Effect 2 dropped and the haters came out of the woodwork to contest what was an obviously much improved system.

What I am seeing in regards to combat is that in DA:O and ME1 the combat existed to advance the story.  It did not have to be extremely flashy with exploding mobs or need to have a near endless supply of them with a few exceptions.

In ME2 and DA2, it seems that the story is there to advance the flashy combat. 

Now, I am not saying that the combat system of DA:O did not need to be improved, it did, but I think they took it too far away from being a story driven title to a combat driven title.

[Mossa_missa]

I like the combat in DA2 way better then Origins. Its aliltle ower the top fast when it comes to two-handers shure but I still think its way funnier then Origins.

[CubbieBlue66]

DariusKalera wrote...

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

I'm at a loss as to how people can actually think the combat in DA2 is worse.

DAO was a game that was played in spite of its combat, not because of it. If you argue, you obviously haven't played a dual wielding cunning rogue.

I can understand having a little problem with the way the waves of enemies come in. I'd probably prefer fewer, but stronger enemies... and not constantly having my mages in back getting flanked by adds in every fight.

I can even see a minor quip with the over the top animations. That's simply going to be a personal preference thing though.

But to me, this whole argument just registers a bit too much like when Mass Effect 2 dropped and the haters came out of the woodwork to contest what was an obviously much improved system.

What I am seeing in regards to combat is that in DA:O and ME1 the combat existed to advance the story.  It did not have to be extremely flashy with exploding mobs or need to have a near endless supply of them with a few exceptions.

In ME2 and DA2, it seems that the story is there to advance the flashy combat. 

Now, I am not saying that the combat system of DA:O did not need to be improved, it did, but I think they took it too far away from being a story driven title to a combat driven title.

I would absolutely agree with this post.

I might give ME2 a pass on the story due to the issues from being the middle title in a planned trilogy, but that's about it.

[Reacher Gilt]

The problem with the combat in DA2 is that it's so ****ing insulting. I'm following the characters, and i'm interested in what's happening, and they just keep throwing tons and tons of crap on the screen. Didn't Laidlaw say "Less is more."?

The player doesn't need to kill dozens and dozens of enemies in order to feel like a badass, and the characters don't need to jump twelve feet in the air, or do a dozen backflips, or shoot fireballs from between their legs in order to look awesome. Exaggerating the art and violence as part of the framed narrative structure was a good idea, but the implementation was rushed and sloppy.

In the end it just comes off as someone jangling their keys in front of a child. And don't get me wrong, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. I for one, thoroughly enjoy playing the latest COD game. But i'd come to expect more from Bioware, and to find their most mature IP infested with this adolescant pandering at every level just makes me want to puke.

[wicked_being]

I go around several places in Kirkwall at night hoping to find someone to fight. Yep I love DA2's combat

[Chromie]

Origins combat was so unbalanced it mage Nightmare difficulty a joke. My Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer mage was so OP I didn't need a
competent group let alone pause and play. Origins was really to easy and
talents really sucked. Combat in DA 2 is superior in every way stop
lying to yourself and saying it was more tactical in Origins. I could
play Nightmare in Origins with out paying attention DA2 I have to use
CC, be cautious of my Aoe's manage my healing because 1 minute for a heal
really makes it difficult to stay alive and much more enjoyable.


Mages
clearly the most OP class. Able to heal, CC everything and add really
powerful debuffs and snare to your hearts content. It really was too
simple before.

Rogue Archers were really just way too powerful
sure it took time for it to be OP. But after getting a couple of +speed
gear and good attack all I did was have Shale and a bunch of sustained
abilities and every auto attack was basically a crit hitting for 300
damage and in Awakening it was even more powerful with Accuracy!

Warriors
were the weakest imo unless if you went Rogue with Spirit Warrior.
Everything would die simple as that 700+ damage 100% crits.

To say Origins was difficult and balanced is a joke.

Don't believe watch these youtube videos.


900+ crit Spirit Warrior/Archer
Nightmare Rogur Archer SOLOS everything <--- really? tactical no
Mage?Arcane Warrior solos High Dragon

How
is combat in Origins difficult? IF you found it hard you just suck. You
can solo a lot of the content with a group of four it's just boring and
easy.

[Fiery Specter]

JimmyG wrote...

I love the fighting. So who is wrong?

Umm... It's pretty broken.  I played the game on hard, and I only lost a couple of fights once I was able to revive downed teammates.  90% of the time I revived a teammates they would instantly regain all health and stamina.  And would continue to do so after they have taken damage and or taken a hit.  It was so broken that after reviving a downed teammate I could literally do anything that required only one hand, because I could just spam the "awesome" button without having to pay attention.  The only time this strategy would fail is when a powerful enemy, or group of enemies could drain Aveline's health in the about a sec it took for her to regen.  And that was a rare encounter indeed.

Modifié par Fiery Specter, 15 mars 2011 - 05:29 .

[Marta Rio]

I don't know if any one has mentioned this yet, but the new combat makes me feel like I'm watching one of Michael Bay's Transformers movies.  That is, there is a bunch of computer-generated fanciness on the screen - and it would be pretty to look at but it's moving too fast for you to see what's going on.

I actually don't feel like the combat system is all that different from DA:O (except for the constant mashing of the A button instead of pressing it once), and I don't mind it all that much, but I just can't tell what's happening, darn it.

Maybe I am getting old, and need glasses, and am not perceptive enough to understand the asthetics that appeal to the younger generation...

[CubbieBlue66]

Shadowcrazy4 wrote...

CubbieBlue66 wrote... the haters

smart of you to put that near the end of your post...as i would have quickly stopped reading after seeing this word if it was in the beginning like i just did near the end.

seriously annoys me when a different opinion automatically makes someone a "hater" or a "troll" just because they don't like something you think is "OMFG FLAWLZZZ"....we use a name for people like this...fanboys...nobody likes a fanboy sir

I wasn't referring to those who have legitimate and well thought out opinions. I was referring to the haters. They will be gone from the forums in a few weeks and those of us left around can have lovely conversations debating the merits of different things... much as it happened in the Mass Effect 2 forums shortly after launch.

[Marionettetc]

Fiery Specter wrote...

JimmyG wrote...

I love the fighting. So who is wrong?

Umm... It's pretty broken.  I played the game on hard, and I only lost a couple of fights once I was able to revive downed teammates.  90% of the time I revived a teammates they would instantly regain all health and stamina.  And would continue to do so after they have taken damage and or taken a hit.

That didn't happen.

You're exaggerating.

[Valtauran]

I love the combat, it is totally engrossing, it pulls me in completely, especially Merrill, i mean she makes me laugh.

[Fredericol]

oblivionenss wrote...

The first thing that made me go Uh, over the battle was that ridicolus backstab ability, especially if you remembered this: http://dragonage.wik..._Rules_of_Magic.

And then the animation where the mages whirled around and the fighters jumped the last metres in fullplate!!!!

And the neverending stream of random spawning enemys felt like I took out whole kirkwall in one encounter.

That... yeah that "explains" the endless waves of appearing mobs... they bend the rules of magic and automagically appear.

And why mobs split into like 15 parts if you hit them ONCE with a sword (really really hard) is beyond me. (along with several more gallons of blood than any human actually has in them)

I tired of the combat / repetetive areas after becoming the champion of kirkwall... might finish the game later but not sure.

[Amioran]

Akka le Vil wrote...
Animations are utterly ridiculous, the mages and rogues in particular, they are some kind of idiotic dances filled with stupid moves that make me just /facepalm - jumping around, waving weapons uselessly. Dragon Age was supposed to be the "pseudo-realistic and gritty" franchise, this circus is the total opposite. Any immersion and any "seriousness" is killed outright with the party of clowns that look like a children's parody of kung-fu movies.

Again with this idiocy? Spare us please. If you want to have a point don't cover behind the mask of the "realistic setting in an RPG's gameplay" because it just shows the lack of intelligence of that mask.

RPGs gameplay is not usually done to be realistic, but enjoyable, tactical and fun. You don't like the "animations"? Fine, but what this have to do with the rest? Really, all the complaints I have seen till now just try to raise "objective" points with a masquerade of out of context remarks on something that has nothing to do with what they are trying to prove.

If you want to criticize something at last you must do so intelligently, or just don't do it

Akka le Vil wrote...
So, the rendering is trash, the immersion is zero, the idiotic quotient is OVER NINE THOUSANDS. Maybe the tactical side will save the day ?

Really boy, to judge if a thing has an high IQ you must have first that yourself.

Akka le Vil wrote...
Scratch that. There is nearly no tactical idea even in hard.
First, as it was widely said, no Friendly Fire before nightmare. It makes just a shower of flame and ice land right in the middle of the your character without any consequences. You can guess how it helps with the beat-them-all factor above.

A shame that the classes as mages are usually stunlocked all the time if you don't position them correctly in hard. So, here it goes your "proof".

Akka le Vil wrote...
Then, the very design of the fight is downright ugly. It can be summed up by 99 % of trash coming in waves, spawning everywhere and destroying any idea of actually trying to think tactical and positioning your characters.
You have swarms of foes everywhere.

I repeat to all of you: if you don't know of what the hell you insist on babbling about just don't do it. In a system with aggro abilties circling the party is MEANT to have a tactical approach, elsewhere there's not breaking of the lines and without it there's no challenge, EVER.

Instead of complaining learn how to position your weaker party members properly. If you are at fault it's not a problem of the game.

Breaking the lines is a FUNDAMENTAL component of party based RPGs. Without it the only thing you must care about is keeping the front line healty, no matter how difficult the encounter is, all resolved on it, without no other consideration.

Akka le Vil wrote...
Bosses are hard, but it's more "Street Fighter hard" than "tactically hard", and the trash is dumbingly easy.

"Street Fighter hard"? Did you come with that phrase on your own? Impressive!

OMG.

Akka le Vil wrote...
In the end, I just select everyone, clic on one mob until he dies, and repeat it until everything is dead on-screen. It keeps my party together, which avoid the "the fragile guy I left in the rear had been ganged upon by magically appearing wave" and the lack of FF and commonplace of AoE means I can just spam everything without thinking.

Please post a video of you doing it on hard on the mid-end encounters. I see a lot of people here saying they can do "this or that" to try to prove a point they neither have. Since I want to laugh please let me see how you spam all AOEs of mages without positioning them and how you just CTRL + A the first enemy alone on Hard and repeat. I'm waiting.

Till then, please, refrain from hyperboles, they are not your strong point, believe me.

Akka le Vil wrote...
In conclusion : fighting is a pain

No. In conclusion you have demonstrated that you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. More you have demonstrated that you just focus on what you want and discard all the rest just so you have a point.

In conclusion, as always, you have demonstrated that bias in judgement is the plague of humanity. It just let you see what YOU want, not what is REALLY there.

Modifié par Amioran, 15 mars 2011 - 08:22 .

[ErebUs890]

ptibog wrote...

JimmyG wrote...

I love the fighting. So who is wrong?

you are,
the fighting is broken, the rpg elements are broken.

this interactive movie doesn't deserve 60€.

It sounds like you're heartbroken. Did the big bad BioWare make you upset? It might just be a personal problem.

I love the combat in DA2, if you don't, than too bad for you.

Modifié par ErebUs890, 15 mars 2011 - 08:19 .

[Edli]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

I'm at a loss as to how people can actually think the combat in DA2 is worse.

DAO was a game that was played in spite of its combat, not because of it. If you argue, you obviously haven't played a dual wielding cunning rogue.

No I didn't play a dual wielding cunning rogue. I played a team of 4 made up of warrior, rogue, and 2 mages. Imo many played the game in a wrong way, it was not meant to stay attached to one character alone but I guess that was the limitation of consoles.

[ATTHWSM]

Chaseroy wrote...

Metroidbum wrote...

Merced652 wrote...

yea the fighting is awesome, i pop cleave then use scythe, and whirlwind then run around picking up coppers! Don't you dare diminish the depth and complexity of such a system.

In DAO, my chacters conflict consisted of cone of sold, stonefist, and tempest.

Yup, it changed soooooo much. They really dumbed down DAO's fascinating and sophisticated combat! Let's not forget all the incredibly useless talents that were in that game either!

Lol at having to quote you again but, seriously, you are right on.

I really don't get everyone complaining about the lack of strategic depth in the combat relative to DAO.  DAO combat was sooooo straightfoward to the point of being boring.  It was ruled by only a couple of skills, Cone of Cold being the top of the list, and some classes, like the rogue (my favorite, mind) were all but useless.

wtf?  I supose not running any type of healer in DAO or DAA made the combat more fun.  Also the Rogue was the proest **** there was !!!  Any kind of boss or epic got face rolled by rogue, so what are you talking about? 

The combat LOOKS better in DA2, with all your champs doing neat little animations, but its dumbed down.  ZERO tactical anything besides kiting Varric/Isa around.