402 réponses à ce sujet

[Dnii]

hehe, i picture the da o fanbois sitting around with monocles twiddling their moustachios saying things like "herm, lelliana to quadrant 4." "commence casting of firebolt" and then i picture them installing da2 booting it up and being startled into spilling hot tea all over themselves. Slow and tedious does not equal tactical. They're probably about equal tactics-wise neither game was that difficult though da o was easier to lame your way through with an overpowered character build. As for the animations, it's all just personal preference imo, personally i like that my character doesn't take 10 sec to slowly meander over to the enemy, and slowly swing it's immensely heavy sword in it's general direction. Or launch a spell at where the enemy was 10 sec ago.

[Seekirus]

This'll get locked soon, or deleted. Tends to happen to pretty much most of the posts that point out flaws in the game.

[ErebUs890]

Oh, and DA2 is a strategy game, if you just stop playing on normal.

[Altasi]

DA2 Honestly does have repulsive combat.
The story is boring and the whole game has been cut down from what origins was..
Very dissapointed

[SorrowAndJoy7]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Scratch that. There is nearly no tactical idea even in hard.
First, as it was widely said, no Friendly Fire before nightmare. It makes just a shower of flame and ice land right in the middle of the your character without any consequences. You can guess how it helps with the beat-them-all factor above.

Soo... play on nightmare?

[Icy Magebane]

Well, all I'm going to say is that I enjoyed the combat. I miss the old decapitations and deathblows, which I felt had a lot more impact than pretty much everyone exploding into bloody chunks when you hit them. That is, however, a minor detail. As a whole, the speed of combat gave the fights more intensity, especially when you knew that at any moment, that rogue who just disappeared was going to backstab somebody. I don't see how people can claim that the tactical elements are gone. You can just press buttons randomly and survive on Hard or Nightmare, with no pausing and without setting up deliberate tactics for each character? Yeah, I doubt that. If that's really the case, then the people claiming it much be far superior players. And if not, now you know where to find the real challenges.

Now, I can't just sit here and endlessly praise this game. The combat was my favorite aspect, but there were still some noticeable flaws. For one thing, Bioware pretty much lied about us being able to do what we wanted in terms of stats. Being a mage and not investing in magic and willpower to wear powerful robes simply isn't practical. That said, you probably won't be taking advantage of the +1 Crit Chance from DEX, or the +1 Crit Damage from CUN... The stats system is still way too strict, and it's very difficult to customize your characters without feeling like you're doing something wrong. I've only played the game once, though, so maybe there are some options I didn't see. And it's not like I wasn't a powerhouse by the end... but sometimes I like going against the grain, and the class system doesn't give you much room to do that.

[Alzari]

hmmm...between the magic system is good, but dumbed down since DAO, the fighting yes is better in some regards, its faster and more realistic in its speed delivery. the move function is a nice touch. You can't switch to a second weapon to access more talents/skills, set bonuses are gone, well except for Spiral eye mage's set, so far. Haven't found any spell combos yet, though AoE are easier to manage with Move. You've lost, things like storm of the century spell fury, tempest, blizzard. Arcane warrior is gone, battle mage, keeper, although they've gone to specific character which makes things a bit more interesting...

[Lafiniel]

i dont mind the combat in da2 i think it was ok. could been better but not bad

although i made a mage and its sooo weak compared to aveline who tanks everything and kills it solo handed O.o take 0 dmg ftw ?

[Shockwave Pulsar]

I love the sped up combat and the flashy animations, being a mage is finally badass. I also don't understand how Origins was more tactical, I basically solo'd the game on nightmare as an arcane warrior. I didn't do any side quests in DAO because the fights were so boring - slow paced and repetitive - just spam AOE spells and shatter frozen enemies and you win. The fights are still repetitive, they rarely need a change is strategy and the battle system has hardly changed, but the little changes they made make the battles much more engaging, they are nicer to look at and I love that there are so many ways to knock your enemies off their feet and send them flying through the air, in summary fighting is finally fun for me.

[th3warr1or]

Agreed. The exploding bodies is dumb. I cleave an enemy in half and he ends up in 25pieces?

[Neversleeping]

The combat animations are godly, so I truly diagree with OP there. The hack'n slash arcade-concole feeling isn't so great. But if they wanted to make it psaudo-realstic, they should also include some animated parries, blocks, dodges and whatnot. And make more interesting and immersive combats through the game (drop the waves).

[Wynne]

I'm gonna go with the "DAO's combat, only with talents and animations that don't suck" crowd. The system may have flaws, but it's not that different and it *is* better. I had to push myself on Hard much more than I did on DAO's hard difficulty, even without FF.

The waves are there so that you can't just predictably cast Tempest, then Firestorm and have everything die--I agree they're annoying and sometimes there can be too many of them, but they're a protection against combat being too simple. Same with archers that stand out of range.

[MaglorArcanist]

Too much nosense explosion and "flash movements".
But the main problem is the enemy spawn problem and the assence of the option to scout and prepare the battlefild with traps snare effects and others, and we have lose like mage some old options like grease and fireball and so on.... they was funny...

[Gryphon7]

IMO, the overtly grandiose combat fits perfectly with the style of narrative.

It's a story being told by a Dwarf with a particular habit of embellishing things and flat out making up others. (See Bethany's bust size in the intro/tutorial sequence.) So, honestly, there's lore-based reasoning behind the style of combat we've been given.

Take that view point however you want.

In regards to the technical side of combat: The constantly/randomly spawning enemies are tedious and annoying. The animations run the gamut from admittedly over the top to pleasingly much less boring than DA:O. The tactics are fairly minimal in depth, but all right in breadth, considering you've got to maintain the entire party...mostly in an effort to save them from their lack of decent AI. The exploding enemies made me go "Wow," and not in a good way, the first time I witnessed them.

It's genuinely not that bad. A bit on the meh side, but far from terrible.

Modifié par Gryphon7, 15 mars 2011 - 11:06 .

[Zaagazug]

Lafiniel wrote...

i dont mind the combat in da2 i think it was ok. could been better but not bad

although i made a mage and its sooo weak compared to aveline who tanks everything and kills it solo handed O.o take 0 dmg ftw ?

I found mage to be weak roughly 30/40% into the game. In the final acts my mage is a walking nuclear bomb (hard). Cannot compare to rogue/warrior yet though (for the final acts).

[Atardecer]

Gryphon7 wrote...

IMO, the overtly grandiose combat fits perfectly with the style of narrative.

It's a story being told by a Dwarf with a particular habit of embellishing things and flat out making up others. (See Bethany's bust size in the intro/tutorial sequence.) So, honestly, there's lore-based reasoning behind the style of combat we've been given.

Sorry, but thats a stretch. The combat seems a "creative" choice by Bioware to pull in a wider audience with shorter attention spans, nothing more. They have already effectively admitted that this game was supposed to reach to a more general audience, hence the scaling in of RPG elements and dumbing down.

Modifié par Atardecer, 15 mars 2011 - 11:14 .

[X-Frame]

You want slow tactical combat?

Play chess.

[xenn]

I made the mistake of buying the pc version of a console designed game.

I want a PC patch with 360 controller support then maybe the button bashing would be more bearable.

[The Gaming Fiend]

X-Frame wrote...

You want slow tactical combat?

Play chess.

You want fast pased hacking and slashing with over the top spell effects and gore, play Devil may Cry.

[Gryphon7]

Atardecer wrote...

Sorry, but thats a stretch. The combat seems a "creative" choice by Bioware to pull in a wider audience with shorter attention spans, nothing more. They have already effectively admitted that this game was supposed to reach to a more general audience, hence the scaling in of RPG elements and dumbing down.

It might be a bit of a stretch, but it still makes sense within the framework of the game/story.

Modifié par Gryphon7, 15 mars 2011 - 11:32 .

[upsettingshorts]

You want specious, only superficially accurate comparisons to other games that don't address anything other than aesthetics - come to the BSN.

[Nokterne]

Both games fail in a number of aspects combat-wise, though i have to say I find DA2 to be vastly superior. DAO combat almost killed the entire game for me, the story was the only thing keeping me going at the end.

[Stejo]

Welcome to the internet. The place where you can find people who actually enjoy having sexual contact with animals, pissing on each other, eating their stool or thinking that DA2 is a good game.

[Tokalla]

Atardecer wrote...

Gryphon7 wrote...

IMO, the overtly grandiose combat fits perfectly with the style of narrative.

It's a story being told by a Dwarf with a particular habit of embellishing things and flat out making up others. (See Bethany's bust size in the intro/tutorial sequence.) So, honestly, there's lore-based reasoning behind the style of combat we've been given.

Sorry, but thats a stretch. The combat seems a "creative" choice by Bioware to pull in a wider audience with shorter attention spans, nothing more. They have already effectively admitted that this game was supposed to reach to a more general audience, hence the scaling in of RPG elements and dumbing down.

I see no reason that Bioware seeking to broaden the audience makes the character chosen as narrator to be a "stretch".  No one proposed that the narrator choice entirely drove the design direction, merely that the design is at least more justified within the game than many seem to believe.  Personally, I have suspected that since playing the demo.  I get the impression that some people tend to forget the game is a frame narrative, and as such is not truly the objective reality of the game world.  The anime and comic style that so many find unrealistic and pervasive is likely little more than an effort to make the game seem like a legend or myth (with the tamer version being more similar to the mythic tales about the American west, which still tend to be very inflated from reality).  Was the choice likely influenced by a desire to broaden the audience?  Certainly.  Was it the sole reason?  Probably not.  I might be wrong, but I feel that going through so much trouble to try and justify such stylistic changes is odd if there is no real desire to retain those who already love the franchise.

[Apechild]

Personally I hate the combat animations. I love the grittier, more realistic animations of DA:O than the anime-want-to-be animations of DA2. The horribly jerky movements, the warriors sliding across the ground, rogues doing silly acrobatics, mages jerkily waving their staves around... some of the magic animations I do like when you cast spells, the small hand gestures and so on are great, I really do like them, but the auto-attack? Bleugh.

My dislike of that sort of thing is not restricted to DA2, I dislike it in general - if I had watched the Sacred Ashes trailer before I purchased DA:O I would not have brought it.

I want the grittier, more realistic animations, the brutal finishers of DA:O, but the newer mage animations for spell casting, a lower pace & none of this constant waves of enemies rubbish that completely ruins any attempts to set up your companions by making their placements almost invalid - can't keep your mage at the back in the area you've just cleared because enemies magically appear right behind you, even if you've cleared out the area completely.

I ended up bumping the difficulty down to casual just to burn through it and get the combat out of the way asap - repetitive, uninspiring, over the top in a poor way in my eyes, and poorly thought out - when every fight is the same then there is something majorly up there.

Modifié par Apechild, 15 mars 2011 - 12:42 .