51 réponses à ce sujet

[Tempest]

Okay, this is just my opinion and in no way am I a representative of the forum populace or of the paying customers.  If you disagree (and most likely it will happen) than I would appreciate a detailed information on why you believe it works.  I just dont want this thread to end up as, "Learn 2 play" or "Bioware must bend to our will" kind of posts.  They are pointless and help no one.  (Other than self gratification.)

Now, the 1st thing I noticed while playing the DA2 demo was the CD on heal.  It was twice the CD time compared to DA:O.  I did not understand why it was implemented or even why it stayed in the vanilla release.  At the moment, I can't depend on Heal or Potion because of the CD.  The reason this hurts me personally is because I LOVE to play the Sword&Board (tank) build.  I love being able to hold down multiple enemies, get healed, and keep them focused while my group members do their magic in the background.  It is a thankless job, but I love doing it.  I can't do this in DA2 because the Heal CD is too high to make Tanking effective.  So now I kite...but anyone can kite.  I could have built a mage or rogue to kite, but I don't like kiting unless it is effective or extremely necessary on end game bosses.  I would just like the Heal to be back at the DA:O CD if possible.  I know it is asking alot and I may be the only one, but I really don't want to mod my first playthrough of this game.  (Unless it is buggy like FA, but it isn't)

[Clonedzero]

at first i didn't like it either, but it forced me to play smarter, to time my attacks better, to control the battles better.

makes you play smarter and more tactically rather than just being sloppy and healing through it like you could often do in DA:O.

[Lawlita]

I appreciate that it doesn't allow me to let the AI be lazy and stand in pools of poison. And encourages me to use stuns/etc. But I tend to enjoy weird group compositions in the first place anyways.

[Wintermist]

I'd prefer it to be shorter too. Not a full minute. Though as soon as I got the Spirit Healer things became easier. I play on hard in case that's interesting. I think a timer of 40 seconds or perhaps 30 would be better. Hopefully a working mod will appear soon, the current mod is apparantly buggy.

[masterofphate]

Clonedzero wrote...

at first i didn't like it either, but it forced me to play smarter, to time my attacks better, to control the battles better.

makes you play smarter and more tactically rather than just being sloppy and healing through it like you could often do in DA:O.

This^^^ It is so much more fun to think through battles instead of just hacking away and spamming heals.

[cainx10a]

It was a real pain on harder difficulties when your entire party HP drop instantly after using a mass heal spell, and you can only afford to heal one of your characters while the others rely on pots, then what happen next is either the enemy dps either goes down, or the entire party get whooped because the rogue wants to stand in an aoe, along with the tank, and someone a ranged dps followed them in.

Definitely would love to see the heal spells CD go down. My mana bar is almost always filled since I barely have any spell to cast in between heals, which don't happen often.

That's only applicable to harder battle on the hard (and nightmare, which I don't want to touch at all for a lot of reasons).

[Adeph]

The CD is 40 seconds, at least it is on the Mage I'm playing at the moment. Is the tooltip for the spell wrong?

[Wintermist]

Adeph wrote...

The CD is 40 seconds, at least it is on the Mage I'm playing at the moment. Is the tooltip for the spell wrong?

You're right, it's 40 seconds. I was remembering wrongly. 20 or 30 seconds would be nice. Perhaps 25 even. Hard to say without testing it in actual battle. On hard I always feel you should be just about be able to maintain your heals, so I guess it'll require some testing before stating a definitive number.

[tactius]

If you want to use a mod to reduce it, that's up to you. But personally I think the current cooldown is fine because it forces you to make use of attributes/abilities that increase your survivability that you otherwise would not bother with.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Keep the cooldown on HPots, lessen the time for Heal specifically (to maybe 20-25 seconds), keep group heal a once per fight CD/ Revive once per fight.

With 100% FF and DPS on nightmare health is basically like 1 extra Hpot, which isnt that much at all

[tactius]

You can still have tank builds that survive without kiting, just spend your ability points where needed. My Aveline tanks on nightmare really well and the CD on heal is good enough for her. Just keep an eye on how your abilities effect enemy threat level, and turn on the tanking abilities when needed.

[Ahglock]

Clonedzero wrote...

at first i didn't like it either, but it forced me to play smarter, to time my attacks better, to control the battles better.

makes you play smarter and more tactically rather than just being sloppy and healing through it like you could often do in DA:O.

It is just a different set of tactics, not a smarter set. 

[tactius]

Ahglock wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

at first i didn't like it either, but it forced me to play smarter, to time my attacks better, to control the battles better.

makes you play smarter and more tactically rather than just being sloppy and healing through it like you could often do in DA:O.

It is just a different set of tactics, not a smarter set. 

True, but I've found you can't rely as much on the automatic tactics system to keep your party alive.

[Cyocide]

It is just a different set of tactics, not a smarter set.

So we can agree that its not necessarily dumber? =P It really makes you use every spell wisely though. A misfired heal is pretty much a wipe waiting to happen.

[darkrose]

Wintermist wrote...

Adeph wrote...

The CD is 40 seconds, at least it is on the Mage I'm playing at the moment. Is the tooltip for the spell wrong?

You're right, it's 40 seconds. I was remembering wrongly. 20 or 30 seconds would be nice. Perhaps 25 even. Hard to say without testing it in actual battle. On hard I always feel you should be just about be able to maintain your heals, so I guess it'll require some testing before stating a definitive number.

It was 60 in the demo, which may be why you thought it. And 30 seconds is the maximum, I'd think.

[Tempest]

Clonedzero wrote...

at first i didn't like it either, but it forced me to play smarter, to time my attacks better, to control the battles better.

makes you play smarter and more tactically rather than just being sloppy and healing through it like you could often do in DA:O.

See, I totally understand the "healing" problem of DA:O.  The fact was you had Heal at 20 seconds.  But you could pop potions like candy in DA:O.  Which made "healing" nearly pointless if you had the cash.  Now they removed potions from being eatin like candy, which is a good balance choice.   But they also increased "heal" for no reason at all whatsoever.  Also EVERYONE in the party shares the potion CD which is also another, but unecessary, balance tweak.  I would be more than happy to stay with potion being the way it is, but I do not like Kiting enemies around because tanking is highly unrecommended.  It is kinda hard to play a game that is promoting itself as "fast paced" when you have to slow down your tactics.  Also, Heal seems to be one of the only abilities thats CD is tweaked so heavily compared to every other magic attack, why?

[Morroian]

Adeph wrote...

The CD is 40 seconds, at least it is on the Mage I'm playing at the moment. Is the tooltip for the spell wrong?

If its 40 sec then it has been brought down from 60 sec in the demo. 40 sec seems reasonable to me since it was such an overpowering tactic in DAO.

[Tempest]

Cyocide wrote...

It is just a different set of tactics, not a smarter set.

So we can agree that its not necessarily dumber? =P It really makes you use every spell wisely though. A misfired heal is pretty much a wipe waiting to happen.

True, but a heal's 1st focus should always be the Tank.  Everyone else should get regeneration when possible.  But with Heal being so long, it is not recommended to have a tank..well, tanking.  Can it be done?  Sure, but you have to know what the fight is before you start so you know how many enemies there will be.  Good in theory, but kinda of had to of played that battle to know what is happening, and a player playing the game the 1st time will not know that.  He will not know that X amount of enemies will appear from X spot.  So you have to hold back a basic Heal, remember basic not group, as a "just in case"?  That is over planning already.  Such tactics should come in mind at mini boss to boss battles, not every other battle.  Damn it, got slightly off track.

[Morroian]

Ahglock wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

at first i didn't like it either, but it forced me to play smarter, to time my attacks better, to control the battles better.

makes you play smarter and more tactically rather than just being sloppy and healing through it like you could often do in DA:O.

It is just a different set of tactics, not a smarter set. 

Sorry any other tactics that force you not to rely on spamming heal are smarter,  being able to spam heal can hardly even be called a tactic.

[Wintermist]

I'm currently hoping someone manages to mod this properly, as the current mod for it bugs out the game.

[Wintermist]

Morroian wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

at first i didn't like it either, but it forced me to play smarter, to time my attacks better, to control the battles better.

makes you play smarter and more tactically rather than just being sloppy and healing through it like you could often do in DA:O.

It is just a different set of tactics, not a smarter set. 

Sorry any other tactics that force you not to rely on spamming heal are smarter,  being able to spam heal can hardly even be called a tactic.

But you might end up running around kiting waiting for the heal cooldown to reset. Exploting the AI just to survive instead of letting us heal as we would otherwise do, it's better to regulate it with mana cost rather than cooldown.

[Tempest]

Okay, at the moment, it is a 40% heal with a 40 sec CD. I'd gladly trade that for a 10% heal with a 10 sec CD, if there was such a skill added later in the game. I really hate putting everything in one basket. I've come in so many moments where I can either heal my tank, who is holding 3+ characters, or my Dps who is attacking 2 enemies now. This wouldn't be such a big deal if random crits/enemies didn't happen. Rule of thumb is to keep your squishies at a distance. But you don't know where that "distance" is if you don't know if your enemies will attack from behind. IF they attack from behind all the time, than your squishies get hurt and you have to send your dps to help them out. Sure "stuns" are available, but they can only go so far. They are a bandaid to put into a group that is dying very slowly.

[naughty99]

Clonedzero wrote...

at first i didn't like it either, but it forced me to play smarter, to time my attacks better, to control the battles better.

makes you play smarter and more tactically rather than just being sloppy and healing through it like you could often do in DA:O.

I completely agree and I think the current duration is perfect. IMHO, the long cooldowns for healing potions and spells is perhaps the single greatest improvement to DA2.

Nightmare mode in DAO was a joke because you could almost constantly spam potions and healing spells to get through anything.

In DA2 I really have to think and plan every character action very carefully and I'm dying frequently, even when I drop down to Hard mode.

The increased frequency of enemy knockdown attacks is another improvement to the gameplay balance that makes it harder to cast heal spells and use potions.

Modifié par naughty99, 11 mars 2011 - 11:41 .

[Meshuganah]

We've gone from healspamming to Benny-hill kiting. The former was far less annoying.

[Wintermist]

LOL, Benny Hill-kiting is just the perfect word for it.