37 réponses à ce sujet

[StabbingHobo]

While I like dark story telling, the point of a roleplaying game is that the players decide what thier actions are, and tell their own story, not to shoehorn whatever decision the player makes into your idea of what makes a good story.  

This is a point that I feel that most people have overlooked the entire time they played the game through.

You are NOT telling your OWN story.  Varric is telling the story OF you.  It's a small difference, but it's a clear one.  It's a story about overcoming adversity and tragedy, plainly put.

When I lost Carver, I didn't care.  He had no impact on me as he was introduced so early in the story that I couldn't gain an emotional attachment.  This is key because through Varric's eyes, Varric would have no backstory to accomodate this.

When I lost Bethany, I was emotionally tied -- again -- because Varric could tell her story as it pertains to her time in Kirkwall.

Finally; losing your mother is pre-destined.  Not having a choice in that loss is quite realistic as you don't get to choose when you lose someone in your life.  The fact that it upsets you is actually, quite good.  It means the writers have appealed to you and you feel the loss.  Not having a huge impact in your time in game, it's important that you empathize in the loss.  Wishing you had an option is what we'd all wish for, we always look back on losses and wish we could have done something different, approached it from a different angle.

Like everyone, I was upset at the loss and I'm glad I was - as it means I was engrossed in the story enough to care.

[svendigo]

Yea I started cursing at my computer screen when I saw what happened to Mother... Damn, that was the first real moment I had playing DA2

[yoshibb]

StabbingHobo wrote...

While I like dark story telling, the point of a roleplaying game is that the players decide what thier actions are, and tell their own story, not to shoehorn whatever decision the player makes into your idea of what makes a good story.  

This is a point that I feel that most people have overlooked the entire time they played the game through.

You are NOT telling your OWN story.  Varric is telling the story OF you.  It's a small difference, but it's a clear one.  It's a story about overcoming adversity and tragedy, plainly put.

When I lost Carver, I didn't care.  He had no impact on me as he was introduced so early in the story that I couldn't gain an emotional attachment.  This is key because through Varric's eyes, Varric would have no backstory to accomodate this.

When I lost Bethany, I was emotionally tied -- again -- because Varric could tell her story as it pertains to her time in Kirkwall.

Finally; losing your mother is pre-destined.  Not having a choice in that loss is quite realistic as you don't get to choose when you lose someone in your life.  The fact that it upsets you is actually, quite good.  It means the writers have appealed to you and you feel the loss.  Not having a huge impact in your time in game, it's important that you empathize in the loss.  Wishing you had an option is what we'd all wish for, we always look back on losses and wish we could have done something different, approached it from a different angle.

Like everyone, I was upset at the loss and I'm glad I was - as it means I was engrossed in the story enough to care.

But I don't want real life I want a video game. I don't want to be reminded of the horrible reality of being helpless, that's not dramatic and it doesn't draw me into the story because all I can think about is how I want to stop it from happening. I don't want reality, I want fantasy. 

That doesn't mean people can't die, but like others have said, it's a roleplaying game. Make it a choice. You killed the only person in the first act that could've helped you. You have to choose your mother or another close companion. I find it incredibly lame to kill someone off in a game and then just say "well that's how life goes sometimes." I'm sorry but it's a cop out to create drama.  

No, I hate reality, I play games to get away from reality. It doesn't need to be rainbows and butterflies, but you don't need to kill off Hawke's whole family just to make him more tragic and deep. I liked this game a lot but there were many times I was upset with the lack of choice I had.

[BaronIveagh]

StabbingHobo wrote...

This is a point that I feel that most people have overlooked the entire time they played the game through.

You are NOT telling your OWN story.  Varric is telling the story OF you.  It's a small difference, but it's a clear one.  It's a story about overcoming adversity and tragedy, plainly put.

When I lost Carver, I didn't care.  He had no impact on me as he was introduced so early in the story that I couldn't gain an emotional attachment.  This is key because through Varric's eyes, Varric would have no backstory to accomodate this.

When I lost Bethany, I was emotionally tied -- again -- because Varric could tell her story as it pertains to her time in Kirkwall.

Finally; losing your mother is pre-destined.  Not having a choice in that loss is quite realistic as you don't get to choose when you lose someone in your life.  The fact that it upsets you is actually, quite good.  It means the writers have appealed to you and you feel the loss.  Not having a huge impact in your time in game, it's important that you empathize in the loss.  Wishing you had an option is what we'd all wish for, we always look back on losses and wish we could have done something different, approached it from a different angle.

Like everyone, I was upset at the loss and I'm glad I was - as it means I was engrossed in the story enough to care.

*sigh* Ok, here we go: One, I didn't empathize so much as be irritated by this.  I was actually more upset about Bethany being hauled off to the Circle.  What has me upset is the ham handedness of it breaking my immersion. 

And, yes, your choices are what kill your mother.  Instead of making a point to investigate the murders early on when it becomes clear something is going on, you just stop abruptly and do not follow it any further.  'Oh, gee, someone used my name to set up and murder a templar.  Not that they are concerend in the least by this, or investigating me for my involvment.  I think I'll just wait around when my best freind is the captain of the city watch and I have not one but two other blood mages to help me..."

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

BaronIveagh wrote...

StabbingHobo wrote...

This is a point that I feel that most people have overlooked the entire time they played the game through.

You are NOT telling your OWN story.  Varric is telling the story OF you.  It's a small difference, but it's a clear one.  It's a story about overcoming adversity and tragedy, plainly put.

When I lost Carver, I didn't care.  He had no impact on me as he was introduced so early in the story that I couldn't gain an emotional attachment.  This is key because through Varric's eyes, Varric would have no backstory to accomodate this.

When I lost Bethany, I was emotionally tied -- again -- because Varric could tell her story as it pertains to her time in Kirkwall.

Finally; losing your mother is pre-destined.  Not having a choice in that loss is quite realistic as you don't get to choose when you lose someone in your life.  The fact that it upsets you is actually, quite good.  It means the writers have appealed to you and you feel the loss.  Not having a huge impact in your time in game, it's important that you empathize in the loss.  Wishing you had an option is what we'd all wish for, we always look back on losses and wish we could have done something different, approached it from a different angle.

Like everyone, I was upset at the loss and I'm glad I was - as it means I was engrossed in the story enough to care.

*sigh* Ok, here we go: One, I didn't empathize so much as be irritated by this.  I was actually more upset about Bethany being hauled off to the Circle.  What has me upset is the ham handedness of it breaking my immersion. 

And, yes, your choices are what kill your mother.  Instead of making a point to investigate the murders early on when it becomes clear something is going on, you just stop abruptly and do not follow it any further.  'Oh, gee, someone used my name to set up and murder a templar.  Not that they are concerend in the least by this, or investigating me for my involvment.  I think I'll just wait around when my best freind is the captain of the city watch and I have not one but two other blood mages to help me..."

Ok, yeah i do see a point here, you do kinda ignore the murders after you find out it's not DuPuis.

[ragnaven]

This moment for me was made rather bleh by the aftermath, Hawke rebounded to quickly. Their needed to be more party member conversation options after to show he actually was torn up about it. All I got was Isabella coming to hawkes room, and her asking if he was okay. I had the it's okay you don't have to cheer me up, your not good with emotional stuff, or the be anger with the world choice. There wasn't enough reaction in Hawke for me to care.

Also I am with the lack of follow up the quest people, sorry but I knew from the way the game was set up when the story was about to mess Hawke over. Act 1 we need money so I bethany can hide from the circle, I ended act 1 with about a hundred and twenty gold. I was going okay I'll go on the expidition but wheres my "Mother heres some money for you and Bethany to get out of town for a bit while I am away" option? Same with the murders, I got no choice to follow them up. Sorry but Hawke at this point is basically a knight of the realm, and someone used his name to murder someone, there would be blood for that in my book.

I would have went back to that foundry with Merril, Anders and Isabella and tore that place appart. Why those three, ones a dalish, got to have good spot checks, one hid from templars all the time good at thinking where to hide things, ones a pirate good for finding smugglers hidden cargo in the ships she boards. Those three and me, I think I'd of found his hidden lair.

Modifié par ragnaven, 12 mars 2011 - 05:16 .

[BaronIveagh]

ragnaven wrote...
I would have went back to that foundry with Merril, Anders and Isabella and tore that place appart. Why those three, ones a dalish, got to have good spot checks, one hid from templars all the time good at thinking where to hide things, ones a pirate good for finding smugglers hidden cargo in the ships she boards. Those three and me, I think I'd of found his hidden lair.

The simple thing to do would actually have been to take the templars back there and tear that place apart stone by stone until they find the enterance.  After all, it's what Templars are trained to do, find apostate mages, after all. 

Generally I've found that being a cop killer is a powerful motivator for other cops...

[Wildfire172]

Dear Bioware:

Normally I do not hate on your games.  I have found many of them to be enjoyable. 

This is not one of them.  It was a big step backward for both RPGs and Bioware writing.

To wit: Your first sibling dies no matter what you do.  Your second sibling dies or is taken away in chains no matter what you do.  Your mother is slaughtered no matter what you do. 

While I like dark story telling, the point of a roleplaying game is that the players decide what thier actions are, and tell their own story, not to shoehorn whatever decision the player makes into your idea of what makes a good story.  

If you want a game that is about melee and is a story on rails, why not just call it 'God of Dragon Age'?  I had bought this game with the mistaken idea that it was supposed to be a role playing game.  There is no RPG in this 'action rpg', as the only real decisions that player actually gets is 'What is my character class', 'who do I sleep with' and 'Do I fight the very thinly disguised ****s and thier 'Tranquil Solution' or fight the mages that might, might, turn into abominations or take up blood magic, like the two people I may or may not have been sleeping with the entire game'?  

I'm sorry why don't you go back to the "classic" RPG's before making this argument. Yeah those are the biggest choices that you have to make in DA2 yet there is still many more choices in this game than a majority of modern "RPG's" today, most RPG's the biggest decisions are "where do I go next? Do I buy this weapon/armor or look for a better one off a monster corpse? Do I level before fighting that boss?" There are not that many games that allow multiple plot choices for the simple fact that it takes longer to develop and most likely more development staff. None of the Final Fantasy's that made Square Soft/Enix famous in the first place had no plot choices (1-10)(the newer ones just suck), and the entire LoZ series you play a mute, yet it is still one of the best selling RPG's.  If you want to rant and rave about a dev team and the company they work for, that has managed to make a game even near this calibur, with A. Multiple projects happening at the same time B. A pushy publisher and the time restraints associated with it C. A shortage of funding hence needing the backing of a publisher such as EA and the problems associated with them why dont you foot the bill or write a story that
your paycheck relied upon that follows what you feel this game should have been, don't forget the animation. Next time you want to whine about this game not being more like Fable or DA:O remember that the whole concept of a multiple scenario plot is still a fairly new field and not all developers can pull a rabbit out of a hat, and even if they did don't think that means they can do it every time.

Modifié par Wildfire172, 12 mars 2011 - 08:52 .

[Nordic Warlord]

David Gaider wrote...

No, her death occurs no matter what. We actually tried putting in a "save your mother" version in that quest-- the problem we found, however, was that people treated that version as the *only* possible outcome. Everything else was a fail condition, even if it was a more dramatic ending that added to the main plot. Tying that version to things you did earlier also didn't work, as anyone who didn't then do that felt like they either had to start all over again or just didn't know about it, period.

It was something we went around on for a while, but in the end decided to stick with the dramatic version. It's not about saving your mother, it's about showing what the dark side of magic can mean to someone when it's personal and not some abstract concept.

The most sad thing about this quest is not that Hawke's mother is killed in an absolutely sick and disgusting manner. The most sad thing about this quest is that we have not been given any choice at all. And a good RPG is always about choice.
I disagree with David Gaider that most people in any case would treat the "save-your-mother" version as the only possible outcome should it be available in the game. Whether it's true or not depends on what else the writers throw into the scales besides Hawke's mother life. After all, in my opinion, a dramatic choice is always a better option for an RPG than "the dramatic version" Mr.Gaider spoke of.

Modifié par Nordic Warlord, 12 mars 2011 - 04:31 .

[Yasnay]

Ah well I cried... My Hawke was a mage and neutral towards the mage vs templar conflict and even considered siding with the mages so when Mother was turned into a Frankenstein bride I realized freedom for every mage was not such a good idea...

[Sonris89]

I used the blood mage to track down Mother... Turned out he was the necromancers apprentice and tries to swear allegence to the necromancer to become his apprentice again... Varric put a bolt through his neck. Aside from that its the same as tracking her down the old fashioned way.

[Sonris89]

Modifié par Sonris89, 12 mars 2011 - 05:12 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

First I was like , then I was like and finally like when I realized what had happened to "my" mom!

It was surely the most morbid scene in all of my gaming experience. I think for a while I was expecting to find my dog nailed to a tree and his eye-balls in my soup, while finding out that my elven servant had been cooking me meat stolen from recently burried corpses in the graveyard.