352 réponses à ce sujet

[Uszi]

Uszi wrote...
http://www.gamedwell...ks-steam-sales/
http://www.ripten.co...fect”-assuaged/

It's the most popular game on all platforms at Game Rankings:
http://www.gameranki...e-ii/index.html
http://www.gameranki...e-ii/index.html
http://www.gameranki...e-ii/index.html

So earlier I asked all the people claiming that it is selling poorly to give me a reliable, objective source that says it is selling poorly.  As an exercise in good faith, I found some articles which seemed to indicate that it is actually selling fairly well, especially considering what competition it has right now as far as new game releases.

And since my post, and before my post really, I have not seen a single source for the claim, "DA2 is selling poorly."

I am beginning to suspect that is because the game is in fact selling well, no one reputable is claiming that it is under performing, and people are making this claim up when they are saying that it is selling poorly.  Of course, as far as I have been able to find so far, there are no official sale figures as far as units sold, etc.

If the people who claim that DA2 is selling poorly aren't making it up, they can show me where they got their information.



More evidence that it will sell quite well:
http://www.huliq.com...ceed-45-million
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
http://www.computera...n-age-2-is-no1/

Scroll down and click on top sellers:
http://store.steampowered.com/

Vena_86 wrote...

DA2 is doing poorly and gets universal criticims, not just on these forums.

Source please.

DashRunner92 wrote...

Though it's still a bit early, it's pretty clear DA2 sales were much lower than expected (THOUGH I expect DA2 sales to start increasing from word of mouth).

Source please.

Modifié par Uszi, 14 mars 2011 - 03:24 .

[marshalleck]

Uszi wrote...

Source please.

Watch the source be some obscure interview with a Bioware employee saying something like "we'd love to see our game sell 10 million copies!" 

And since DA2 didn't sell 10 million copies in a week, it's "under-performing."

Troll logic. 
 

Modifié par marshalleck, 14 mars 2011 - 03:28 .

[Whatever42]

Uszi wrote...

Uszi wrote...
http://www.gamedwell...ks-steam-sales/
http://www.ripten.co...fect”-assuaged/

It's the most popular game on all platforms at Game Rankings:
http://www.gameranki...e-ii/index.html
http://www.gameranki...e-ii/index.html
http://www.gameranki...e-ii/index.html

So earlier I asked all the people claiming that it is selling poorly to give me a reliable, objective source that says it is selling poorly.  As an exercise in good faith, I found some articles which seemed to indicate that it is actually selling fairly well, especially considering what competition it has right now as far as new game releases.

And since my post, and before my post really, I have not seen a single source for the claim, "DA2 is selling poorly."

I am beginning to suspect that is because the game is in fact selling well, no one reputable is claiming that it is under performing, and people are making **** up when they are saying that it is selling poorly.


http://www.huliq.com...ceed-45-million
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
http://www.computera...n-age-2-is-no1/

Scroll down and click on top sellers:
http://store.steampowered.com/

I have no idea whether DA2 sales will be judged a success but here's the pattern around here:

Hater: This game sucks, everyone hates it.
Fanboy: No, critics actually seem to like it. A lot.
Hater: Critics don't matter. Bioware pays them off. No one is buying the game.
Fanboy: No, actually, it's selling very well. Bioware  is plowing ahead on the sequel.
Hater: Sales figures don't matter. It just means the Bioware is marketing to the "lowest common denominator".

Certain fans think Bioware should make games only for them. If Bioware makes a game that they like then Bioware should only make that kind of game. Any deviation from that favorite formula is betrayal. It's litterally like being stabbed in face. They will never buy another Bioware product. And they will post on the forums for years telling us how Bioware betrayed them (and by extenion all of humanity). Fortunately, though, they can tell Bioware where they went wrong. If Bioware doesn't listen, its another stab in the face, and just proves that Bioware is arrogant and doesn't listen to its fans (aka the poster) and is doomed.

Frankly, gaming forums are the biggest entertainment on the Internet.

[armass]

I dont think Bioware is anywhere near of losing it's glory, even if Da2 was a bit disappointing. If you wanna look for a real disapointer and past glory company these days, i point you to the direction of Square-Enix. Great games in the past but now? Not so much and incredible franchise milking via remakes and stupid spinoff games.

And this is coming from an ex-fan. Square used to be something great.

Modifié par armass, 14 mars 2011 - 03:57 .

[Kanten]

armass wrote...

I dont think Bioware is anywhere near of losing it's glory, even if Da2 was a bit disappointing. If you wanna look for a real disapointer and past glory company these days, i point you to the direction of Square-Enix. Great games in the past but now? Not so much and incredible franchise milking via remakes and stupid spinoff games.

And this is coming from an ex-fan. Square used to be something great.

Square's problem is that they have a metric ton of great IPs lying around that they are just leaving to rot. Meanwhile their supposed trademark series has become something of a household joke among the gaming community.

It used to be the release of a new Final Fantasy was like a gaming holiday. Now the general response is "oh look, another one" and even the main series has taken a steep drop in quality. The last one with a generally positive reception was FFX and it's been a steady downhill since.

Ever since the merger (anyone noticing a pattern?) it's just been one piece of shovelware after another.

[Uszi]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Hater: This game sucks, everyone hates it.
Fanboy: No, critics actually seem to like it. A lot.
Hater: Critics don't matter. Bioware pays them off. No one is buying the game.
Fanboy: No, actually, it's selling very well. Bioware  is plowing ahead on the sequel.
Hater: Sales figures don't matter. It just means the Bioware is marketing to the "lowest common denominator".

Right, that's because people can have opinions, and no one really has a right to try and deny someone's subjective opinion.  You might like chocolate ice cream, I might like vanilla.  That's fine, but then the discussion would be very short.

These discussions get kicking, though, because often times people try validate their subjective opinion by making objective claims about it.  "I dislike chocolate ice cream, and seeing as how most people dislike chocolate ice cream I think I am right."  And objective claims can be right or wrong.  The statement that most people dislike chocolate ice cream can be shown to be true or false.  And if you disagree with the statement, you now have a means of arguing it.

To be fair, I don't know that very many DA2 critics shift the goal posts like the example you gave.  Rather, DA2 critics have a variety of different arguments, and in responding to the many critics one mistakenly assume they espouse all of the critical arguments.

I don't think I've seen someone say all of the above:  that critics hate it, that it's selling poorly, etc.  If they have then they're being silly, since all of the listed claims are weak at best and inaccurate at worst. 

But anyway.

Certain fans think Bioware should make games only for them. If Bioware makes a game that they like then Bioware should only make that kind of game. Any deviation from that favorite formula is betrayal. It's litterally like being stabbed in face. They will never buy another Bioware product. And they will post on the forums for years telling us how Bioware betrayed them (and by extenion all of humanity). Fortunately, though, they can tell Bioware where they went wrong. If Bioware doesn't listen, its another stab in the face, and just proves that Bioware is arrogant and doesn't listen to its fans (aka the poster) and is doomed.

Frankly, gaming forums are the biggest entertainment on the Internet.

I happen to agree with you here.  I don't think Bioware owes me anything, and if they make a game I do not like, then it doesn't represent some betrayal on behalf of the company.  And if Bioware makes games that I dislike on a regular basis, then my choice to no longer purchase Bioware products is not the result of indignation.

But these are all completely subjective claims.  You say Bioware doesn't owe the fans anything, someone else says that they do.  You say you like chocolate ice icream, someone else says that they like vanilla.

Modifié par Uszi, 14 mars 2011 - 04:15 .

[Haeretiker]

I don't really understand why most people see DA2 and ME2 as BioWare's downfall.
They are both very good games, with great storytelling and gameplay.

So no, ME3 is NOT BioWare's last hope, it's just their upcoming sequel to ME2.

[Dougy Fresh]

Vyse_Fina wrote...

Been discussed in like 3 other topcis. Nobody can really tell. Need more info. Enemies everywhere.

thanks mordin solus haha

[UKStory135]

I thought that Obi Wan Kenobi was our last hope.

[Phaedon]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
I have no idea whether DA2 sales will be judged a success but here's the pattern around here:

Hater: This game sucks, everyone hates it.
Fanboy: No, critics actually seem to like it. A lot.
Hater: Critics don't matter. Bioware pays them off. No one is buying the game.
Fanboy: No, actually, it's selling very well. Bioware  is plowing ahead on the sequel.
Hater: Sales figures don't matter. It just means the Bioware is marketing to the "lowest common denominator".

Certain fans think Bioware should make games only for them. If Bioware makes a game that they like then Bioware should only make that kind of game. Any deviation from that favorite formula is betrayal. It's litterally like being stabbed in face. They will never buy another Bioware product. And they will post on the forums for years telling us how Bioware betrayed them (and by extenion all of humanity). Fortunately, though, they can tell Bioware where they went wrong. If Bioware doesn't listen, its another stab in the face, and just proves that Bioware is arrogant and doesn't listen to its fans (aka the poster) and is doomed.

Frankly, gaming forums are the biggest entertainment on the Internet.

Seems like I am the fanboy then. 

[Daeion]

Häretiker wrote...

I don't really understand why most people see DA2 and ME2 as BioWare's downfall.
They are both very good games, with great storytelling and gameplay.

So no, ME3 is NOT BioWare's last hope, it's just their upcoming sequel to ME2.

I'd wager that most people who see these games as BW's downfall come from the traditional RPG background that used to make up BW's core gamer but now BW is shifting to increase it's fanbase and those who have been here since the begining feel betrayed and see the company going isomewhere that they don't want to follow.

I was dissapointed in ME2 and again dissapointed in DA2, but I don't think the company is failing, it's just moving in a direction that is different from my own.

Modifié par Daeion, 14 mars 2011 - 05:21 .

[Kasper Finknottle]

I'd be interested to see in the future how the DLC sales go in comparison to ME2 and DAO.

Personally, I've bought all of 'em for ME2 (even the 'ooo new clothes' ones), most of the DAO ones (except Witch Hunt - crap reviews, plus me dwarf couldn't give a monkeys about Morrigan)...

...but DA2? Bought the signature edition....but will save my cash for other things methinks.

[Thompson family]

marshalleck wrote...
 More like the critical thinking crowd. If you can't see some of the huge flaws ME2 had, you're either blind or willfully ignorant.

marshalleck, I would have some sympathy for those who are so upset at watching their favorite genre die in front of them if it weren't for the the dismissive arrogance of remarks such as this. This kind of open contempt undermines your other arguements.

People who might be persuaded by or  at least willing to consider some of your points (such as your argument that there's only one BioWare customer base instead of a fantasy/sci fi division) are much more prone to dismiss your thoughts as narrow-minded because of your undeserved assumption of superiority.

I won't give the laundry list again of all the games I've played that are much more detailed and demanding than ME1 ever was. Suffice it to say that I'm more impressed with the intellectual demands of needlepoint embroidery than of old-school RPG play.

Modifié par Thompson family, 14 mars 2011 - 09:48 .

[RedShft]

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

I mean, the cataclysmic response and aftermath of the DA2 launch has sent repercussive doubt and distaste for a company that has always been loved and respected by it's fans and the gaming community as a whole. Whether DA2 was rushed or not is a matter of debate, and I think the DA franchise can be saved from a stellar 3rd game. But if ME3 fails, or feels rushed, I think its proof Bioware has lost its touch.

I happen to like DA2. Is it their usual greatness? No, but it is something I enjoy playing and I love the characters. If ME3 succeeds, and lives up the hype gathered from ME2, it will put the ME series in to the histroy books of gaming. But if it fails, and we are left with a game thats even 95% done, Bioware will be responsible for containing a wave of flames greater than the world has ever known.

Holy god, stop being so damn emo. DA2 is a great game. 

[dkm945]

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

I mean, the cataclysmic response and aftermath of the DA2 launch has sent repercussive doubt and distaste for a company that has always been loved and respected by it's fans and the gaming community as a whole. Whether DA2 was rushed or not is a matter of debate, and I think the DA franchise can be saved from a stellar 3rd game. But if ME3 fails, or feels rushed, I think its proof Bioware has lost its touch.

I happen to like DA2. Is it their usual greatness? No, but it is something I enjoy playing and I love the characters. If ME3 succeeds, and lives up the hype gathered from ME2, it will put the ME series in to the histroy books of gaming. But if it fails, and we are left with a game thats even 95% done, Bioware will be responsible for containing a wave of flames greater than the world has ever known.

I chuckled. Thanks.
Anyway, I like DA2 so far. I haven't looked at much of the criticism on this forum after noticing the extreme sense of entitlement and "It's all about me!" attitude that some people have demonstrated after ME2's release.

[Killa2k]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Killa2k wrote...

tbh im not gunna flame them Bioware are a great producer of good quality RPG's of which in my opinion and it is only my opinion, DA2 fails to be but i imagine they will listen to the large majority of complaints and screwing over DA2 and remedy it at least im hoping they do...Good luck Bioware only time will tell "fingers crossed for ME3"

I played a lot more of DA2 this weekend and I personally think the writing is brilliant in DA2. Yes, they reused some environments, but as an old-time RPGer, that bothered me less than I thought. I thought I'd get bored of the limited vistas but I enjoy the depth of the story, even if does lack breadth.

I can see why people would prefer DAO. DAO was a more traditional RPG, with a lost prince and broad vistas. You got to interact more with the characters, the talent trees allowed more customizability, you could dress up your companions.

But the writing in DA2 is better than DAO and the story is deeper and more personal. The combat is certainly more fun and challenging. Other than the reusable environments, I see no drop in quality here. DA2 is an excellent game, even if some of their innovations aren't popular.

personally the story in both DA:O and DA2 had its ups and downs but hionestly the downplayed "they reused some environments" is a big understatement for me it made the game so repetative it bored me senseless and its the ONLY Bioware title where i havent been totally gripped from start to finish. i also wouldnt say the fighting in DA2 was more challenging, not in the slightest, more action based i would say so im guessing some would say more fun i enjoyed the combat in both but i think DAO was a much more solid game in comparison ( ofc this is all personal opinion)

Modifié par Killa2k, 14 mars 2011 - 06:08 .

[AlanC9]

Thompson family wrote...
I won't give the laundry list again of all the games I've played that are much more detailed and demanding than ME1 ever was. Suffice it to say that I'm more impressed with the intellectual demands of needlepoint embroidery than of old-school RPG play.

There's no need to insult needlepoint. 

[DashRunner92]

[quote]DashRunner92 wrote...

Though it's still a bit early, it's pretty clear DA2 sales were much lower than expected (THOUGH I expect DA2 sales to start increasing from word of mouth).[/quote]

Source please.

[/quote]
@Uszi Remember this is a triple A games, "ok" sales are still bad for a triple A games. 
NOTE: I'm taking about US sales, DA2 did very well in the UK. 

Barely made the top 5 list on Steam, which is sad as that DA:O, ME2, DA: Ultimate (Still on the top 10) hit #1 on the list at first release. In fact the only lists I've seen DA2 within the top 10 has been in DD stores. (No source needed, just simple type in the name of a DD store like Steampowered.com) Also Steam and other digital stores do not release sales figures, so being a top seller on a DD store doesn't really say anything.


http://www.gamezone....to_amazon_3_11/
http://www.gamestop.com/  (Fails to be top selling, just an example of a second store, not going to go posting every site that shows the same sales again) 

Btw also your "Sources" up there are useless. Gamerankings.com has NOTHING to do with sales and the huliq article is a PROJECTION, nothing to do with how much it actually sold.
[quote]marshalleck wrote...
[quote]Uszi wrote...
Source please.
[/quote]
Watch the source be some obscure interview with a Bioware employee saying something like "we'd love to see our game sell 10 million copies!" 
And since DA2 didn't sell 10 million copies in a week, it's "under-performing."
Troll logic.  [/quote]
At what point was my post trolling? I never said I was happy at the sales, and I said I believe the sales would increase later on, so maybe you want to read the WHOLE post before calling someone a troll, which I believe then makes you a troll.

Modifié par DashRunner92, 14 mars 2011 - 07:20 .

[DashRunner92]

-

Modifié par DashRunner92, 14 mars 2011 - 07:06 .

[DashRunner92]

-

Modifié par DashRunner92, 14 mars 2011 - 07:05 .

[DashRunner92]

-sorry my computer like bugged out and it quadtruple posted- 

Modifié par DashRunner92, 14 mars 2011 - 07:06 .

[Whatever42]

Phaedon wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
I have no idea whether DA2 sales will be judged a success but here's the pattern around here:

Hater: This game sucks, everyone hates it.
Fanboy: No, critics actually seem to like it. A lot.
Hater: Critics don't matter. Bioware pays them off. No one is buying the game.
Fanboy: No, actually, it's selling very well. Bioware  is plowing ahead on the sequel.
Hater: Sales figures don't matter. It just means the Bioware is marketing to the "lowest common denominator".

Certain fans think Bioware should make games only for them. If Bioware makes a game that they like then Bioware should only make that kind of game. Any deviation from that favorite formula is betrayal. It's litterally like being stabbed in face. They will never buy another Bioware product. And they will post on the forums for years telling us how Bioware betrayed them (and by extenion all of humanity). Fortunately, though, they can tell Bioware where they went wrong. If Bioware doesn't listen, its another stab in the face, and just proves that Bioware is arrogant and doesn't listen to its fans (aka the poster) and is doomed.

Frankly, gaming forums are the biggest entertainment on the Internet.

Seems like I am the fanboy then. 

Oh, so am I. i just thought if I was going to label the other side hater, I should be fair and use their label for me.

[Whatever42]

DashRunner92 wrote...
Remember this is a triple A games, "ok" sales are still bad for a triple A games. 
NOTE: I'm taking about US sales, DA2 did very well in the UK. 

Barely made the top 5 list on Steam, which is sad as that DA:O, ME2, DA: Ultimate (Still on the top 10) hit #1 on the list at first release. In fact the only lists I've seen DA2 within the top 10 has been in DD stores. (No source needed, just simple type in the name of a DD store like Steampowered.com) Also Steam and other digital stores do not release sales figures, so being a top seller on a DD store doesn't really say anything.

Bioware games have never sold at COD levels. The Western RPG market just isn't that big. And even within that niche, you have those who prefer open-world games like Oblivion and those who prefer stronger narratives. Bioware has been exploring around within that niche with their gameplay but they haven't moved outside it.  You can only really compare Bioware games to Bioware games.

[DashRunner92]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

DashRunner92 wrote...
Remember this is a triple A games, "ok" sales are still bad for a triple A games. 
NOTE: I'm taking about US sales, DA2 did very well in the UK. 

Barely made the top 5 list on Steam, which is sad as that DA:O, ME2, DA: Ultimate (Still on the top 10) hit #1 on the list at first release. In fact the only lists I've seen DA2 within the top 10 has been in DD stores. (No source needed, just simple type in the name of a DD store like Steampowered.com) Also Steam and other digital stores do not release sales figures, so being a top seller on a DD store doesn't really say anything.

Bioware games have never sold at COD levels. The Western RPG market just isn't that big. And even within that niche, you have those who prefer open-world games like Oblivion and those who prefer stronger narratives. Bioware has been exploring around within that niche with their gameplay but they haven't moved outside it.  You can only really compare Bioware games to Bioware games.

I'm not talking about COD levels. Please read the posts before commenting. DA2 sales are lower than previous triple A Bioware games. In my original post I said that for example DA and ME are two complete different creatures in almost everyway like gameplay and graphics. 

[Demonhoopa]

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

I mean, the cataclysmic response and aftermath of the DA2 launch has sent repercussive doubt and distaste for a company that has always been loved and respected by it's fans and the gaming community as a whole. Whether DA2 was rushed or not is a matter of debate, and I think the DA franchise can be saved from a stellar 3rd game. But if ME3 fails, or feels rushed, I think its proof Bioware has lost its touch.

I happen to like DA2. Is it their usual greatness? No, but it is something I enjoy playing and I love the characters. If ME3 succeeds, and lives up the hype gathered from ME2, it will put the ME series in to the histroy books of gaming. But if it fails, and we are left with a game thats even 95% done, Bioware will be responsible for containing a wave of flames greater than the world has ever known.

Yeah I just don't see the problem. I think DA2 is a BAMF game.