352 réponses à ce sujet

[Gatt9]

Uszi wrote...

Uszi wrote...


Interestingly, it is currently ranked #1 best seller for role playing games on Xbox 360 according to Amazon.

Interestingly, it is currently ranked #1 best seller for role playing games on PS3 according to Amazon.

Interestingly, it is currently ranked #2 best seller for role playing games on the PC according to Amazon.

Can I elaborate on a point I meant to make, but forgot to in the above post?

If DA:2 is selling poorly, which has yet to be demonstrated(!), then that still does not prove the claim that it is because of BW's development philosophy, or any changes made to the Dragon Age formula from DA:O.

I would argue that even if DA:2 sells poorly, the fact that it is the top selling game in it's genre indicates that it is a success among RPG enthusiasts. 

That DA:2 fails to outsell games like Homefront or Total War: Shogun 2 could just as easily say something about how RPGs in general sell in comparison to shooter or strategy games, then it could say something about DA:2 specifically.

If you want to claim that DA:2 would sell better if it were more like DA:O, then you need to demonstrate that it is not selling well as an RPG.

And so, I feel even more confident that those complaining about the changes to DA:2 from DA:O are indeed a part of a vocal minority, as the game seems to be selling to the RPG crowd rather nicely.

In so far as people are buying RPGs, they are buying DA:2.

Um...Carefull there,  your data isn't necessarily telling you what you think it is.

Amazon's a good example.  There aren't any other current new RPGs,  SO DA2's sales are being ranked against games who are into their tails,  while it is in it's peak.  The majority of games sell most of their units in the first 4-8 weeks.  So if every other game sold 28 copies,  and DA2 sold 30,  it would be ranked #1. 

Steam provides a bit better of a picture,  but still has the same problem.  No new major releases,  so it's just holding it's own against games in their tail,  except one competitor who is beating it.

So in truth,  the only conclusion that you can draw is that someone is buying copies.  It could be 12 copies.  It could be 12,000.  There's no way to tell.  Asheron's Call 2 fans fell prey to this very path you're walking,  they used Amazon charts to claim AC2 was selling well,  then server populations were discovered,  and it turned out AC2 didn't even sell 100,000 copies.

I would also respectfully suggest that you might want to reflect on that vocal minority bit,  DAO outsold ME and ME2,  and nearly outsold them both combined going from wikipedia's numbers.  I understand alot of people want to believe the vocal minority bit,  but really,  the sales tell a different story.

Hard numbers will be out in ~3 weeks,  I'd imagine there's going to be some unhappy campers.  I don't see the indicators of a healthy environment here.

Modifié par Gatt9, 15 mars 2011 - 08:24 .

[Milkweed]

The mass effect game cocept itself is pretty hard to f up unless the story line is completley stupid or to far out there,as far as I know its the only tactical shooter with a rich and multidirectional stry line outhere, I just dont see how M.E.3 could fail, as for Bioware if they applied the same cocept to more of thier game and put the time and maticules attention to detail into it they will be just fine.you just cant rush these types of games or you get a mess.

[Valmarn]

Phaedon wrote...

Valmarn wrote...
You must have pretty low standards to consider 50% or 60% to be "average." Even that 74% is borderline, IMNSHO, especially considering BioWare's track record.

No, based solely on those numbers, they're not exactly negative, but when you consider the verbal content of those reviews, it's pretty clear that the reviewers weren't really in love with the game.

As though it would matter, I also seem to recall them giving it a 3 out of 5 (60%) on X-Play, as well.

The problem is that these are not my standards, that's Metacritic's standards, and I'd say that they know a bit more about statistics than me and you. Check the scores of other games, 84 is pretty good.

I was referring to the 3 "average" reviews that you mentioned. "Average" was the terminology that you used, not metacritic; they refer to them as "mixed" reviews, which is far more accurate, IMNSHO.

Would I play Dragon Age 2? Absolutely, but unless someone gave me their game, it won't be until it gets down to $20 that it'll see the inside of my DVD-ROM. Even then, my money's not exactly going to be burning a hole in my wallet. Afterall, I'm still having far too much fun playing Dragon Age: Origins...lol[

Your personal opinion is irrelevant.

As is your mention that my personal opinion is irrelevant.

But I guess you'll have to excuse me for making my opinion known, as though I'm the first person on the forums to do such a thing. ; ^)

I was merely taking a step back from my expressed dislike of the game.

Lesson learned. I'll stick to my guns, as opposed to expressing the slightest interest in playing the game, at all.

[DashRunner92]

Uszi wrote...

DashRunner92 wrote...

@Uszi Remember this is a triple A games, "ok" sales are still bad for a triple A games. 
NOTE: I'm taking about US sales, DA2 did very well in the UK. 

Barely made the top 5 list on Steam, which is sad as that DA:O, ME2, DA: Ultimate (Still on the top 10) hit #1 on the list at first release. In fact the only lists I've seen DA2 within the top 10 has been in DD stores. (No source needed, just simple type in the name of a DD store like Steampowered.com) Also Steam and other digital stores do not release sales figures, so being a top seller on a DD store doesn't really say anything.


http://www.gamezone....to_amazon_3_11/
http://www.gamestop.com/  (Fails to be top selling, just an example of a second store, not going to go posting every site that shows the same sales again) 

Btw also your "Sources" up there are useless. Gamerankings.com has NOTHING to do with sales and the huliq article is a PROJECTION, nothing to do with how much it actually sold.

TY for sourcing your claims about sales data.

1.  Regarding Gamerankings and Huliq

I just went around trying to find examples of things that indicate that claims that the game is bombing might be incorrect.  I have had no idea what game rankings is or does, but whatever, please reject that link.  I fail to see why I should reject good sales projections.  If the game were selling poorly there should be poor sales projections.

Please explain why one cannot use projections made by reputable sources.

2.  Regarding Steam: 

What the hell are you talking about?

http://store.steampowered.com/

Go to "Top Sellers"

#1:  Total War:  Shogun II
#2:  DRAGON AGE II
#3:   Homefront
#4:  Portal 2
#5:  Rift
#6:  Crysis 2
#7:  Assassin's Creed Brotherhood
#8:  Warhammer 40,000:  Dawn of War II:  Retribution
#9:  Magicka
#10:  Napolean Total War:  Imperial Edition

How is the #2 Top Selling game not in the top 5 list on steam?  What top 5 list are you talking about?

3.  Regarding your link about amazon.com

 I dislike that article because it has a fairly well stated bias.

I also dislike that article because it doesn't give me a source link that verifies their paraphrasing of the data.  Where is that top 5 list for the 2nd week of march?  Couldn't really find it in google.  It would be nice to see this list first hand, instead of reading it through the filter of a website that explains rather smugly that it confirms their thoughts on the game.

Regardless, it would admittedly make it hard to claim that the game is selling well given that the article's claims are true.  However, I am not arguing that it is selling well, merely that it is  not selling poorly.

What I did find is that Amazon.com keeps track of it's current "best sellers" for things like video games or movies, and that the list for video games contains all manner of game peripherals as well as games, and the top 5 contains things like a 12-month XBL gold membership, I wouldn't say opening in the top 20 is a bad sign at all.  Currently, it is ranked 39 when you compare it will all of the garbage like XBL subscriptions and controllers and the Xth special editions of the same game. If you remove all of that garbage and only look at games, Dragon Age is the 22nd best selling game on Amazon currently. 

Which again doesn't sound too hot, but then we'd have to start splitting hairs over exactly when a game becomes poorly selling, and regardless this is exactly 1 source of data we're already splitting hairs over.

Interestingly, it is currently ranked #1 best seller for role playing games on Xbox 360 according to Amazon.

Interestingly, it is currently ranked #1 best seller for role playing games on PS3 according to Amazon.

Interestingly, it is currently ranked #2 best seller for role playing games on the PC according to Amazon.

Huh.

4.  Regarding gamestop.com

DA2 is the 3rd best selling PC game.  It is not in the top 5 for other platforms.  It's currently 15 for Xbox and 11 for PS3.

Again, I wouldn't say its selling like hot cakes on the Xbox or PS3, but it sounds like its selling well on the PC, and it doesn't sound like it's bombing on the Xbox or PS3 either.  I'm not trying to argue that it's selling well.  I'm trying to argue that it isn't bombing.

5.  Regarding not providing additional sources

As far as "not going to go posting every site that shows the same sales again," I've just demonstrated that your sales data from the two websites is hardly "the same." 

The data widely depends on how you're choosing to filter your information. 

Your argument is only as strong as the amount of data that you choose to back it up with.  If you only want to use two potential sources, then feel free---though you of course open yourself up to a confirmation bias here if you just hunt around for the one or two sources which seem to support your claims.



IN ANY EVENT

I don't think the links you provided allow you to confidently argue that the game is selling poorly.  

You might argue that the game is not selling amazingly well.  Sure, fine.

But there is hardly a dichotomy in which a game can only sell very well or very poorly.  

In reality there is a continuum of success, and based on the information you gave me, I don't feel DA2 has tanked.

You might still dislike DA2, or feel a part of a minority of fans who felt disenfranchised by BW changing up the formula of the game.  But I don't think you can be claim that no one is buying the game because they're pissed at the changes BW has made. 

Well, you can't claim it in good faith at least.


EDIT
I figured this was going to happen:

As of the ORIGINAL writing of this post, DA2 was #2 on Steam.

As of now, DA2 is now #3 on Steam.  Bah.

I figured I'd use a screen cap to prove my point since all of the data points I've indicated thus far are fluid and changing in case things get changed up any more

Projections are not actual game sales. There have been numerous times were game projection sales were way off. I did say that DA2 was on the top 5 on Steam, it was 4 when I had checked. What I said is DA2 was within the top 10 list in other DD stores as well, for example Direct2Drive. Again, Steam does not take into account of actual number of sales. That's why it's constantly changing, as you have noticed.I also predicted that DA2 will begin to do better later on through word of mouth, which I was correct as that DA2 sales are beginning to rise. The fact that you want mulitple resources is usless as that game sales rankings are usually identical everywhere. The whole reason those two resources were hardly the same was the whole purpose of putting those two. If they were the same, it wouldn't make much sense posting them. 

Also DA2 is selling worse on PC than on Xbox 360 and PS3. In fact Xbox 360 is the console with the majority of DA2 sales.

http://www.eurogamer...ales-double-ps3
Note: does numbers represent the UK. The thing is that DA2 is toping all the charts in the UK, meanwhile it fails to do so in US.

Of course I'm not saying and at not point did I say that DA2 did horrible, what I'm trying to say is sales were lower than the predicted amount on launch day which is unusual for a Bioware game. Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for DA2 and Bioware, I preordered that signature edition early, happily have been playing it for hours and loving every bit of it. Of course I have my little compliants, but no game is prefect and who doesn't, but I love Bioware games and once again they made a genius game. I personally could careless about the changing style of Bioware games, but what love is the story, interesting quests, and each franchises universe, and Bioware has outdone it's self as always. 

Modifié par DashRunner92, 15 mars 2011 - 04:17 .

[Franzius]

Sales data count nothing!!!

THE FACT:
DA:Origin on consoles is a terrible port of a gorgeous PC game (the last true Bioware game!);
Awakening is a nightmare;
DA2 is a rushed mediocre game.
ME2 is a mediocre game in itself (with a good grapich!) but a really terrible sequel!!!
SW:TOR is a big "?"
ME3 developed in less then 2 year (for 3 different system at the same time!!!)

Bioware lost its touch long time ago...

Remember Westwood? Bulfrog? Origin?

[Zaknaberrnon]

RainyDayLover wrote...

I honestly don't get all the hate for DA2 but then I don't play Bioware games for anything other than the storytelling and characters at which DA2 excels at -- even more so than both of the Mass Effect games.

QFT

[Il Divo]

Franzius wrote...

Sales data count nothing!!!

THE FACT:
DA:Origin on consoles is a terrible port of a gorgeous PC game (the last true Bioware game!);
Awakening is a nightmare;
DA2 is a rushed mediocre game.
ME2 is a mediocre game in itself (with a good grapich!) but a really terrible sequel!!!
SW:TOR is a big "?"
ME3 developed in less then 2 year (for 3 different system at the same time!!!)

Bioware lost its touch long time ago...

Remember Westwood? Bulfrog? Origin?

You might want to provide either arguments or sources for most of these 'facts'.

[Fallingblack]

For me, ME3 will be my last BioWare game until they either get out from under the EA shadow (if there is a shadow, if EA can be blamed at least in part for the failures) or switch ownership and management.

I'm certainly not going to invest any time or money in an MMO ran by people who ban those from their games for getting a tad snippy.

I have lots of games and game companies to choose from. I don't need this.

[Drake_Hound]

I think problem is since EA take over , (remember DA:O was a project 7 years long)
They are pushing games to come out faster and faster , ME3 infact should not be released this year .
But 1 year later , even if ME3 was in creation same time as ME 2 .

Bioware usually don´t rush things , they like quality control . I have no doubt DA2 with time will get beter .
Especially with the DA2 DLC , but other hand I have a feeling DA2 is just a prequel to DA3 .
So is DA3 coming out next year ? or are they giving DA2 2 year run with DLC to improve it .

Since EA take over for good reason , cause buying up bioware didn´t come cheap .
They are forced to neglect quality and just push out volumes  .

Anyway ME3 is not Bioware last hope , SWTOR is , cause that game has been in development for 5+ years .
I really hope ME3 won´t come out this fall , but delayed sound stupid , cause yes I want to play it and know the outcome of the trilogy , but I rather have quality especially for the end of this wonderfull serie .

[Whatever42]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

The "D&D" crowd was the one that was pissed off about ME2 to begin with.

never played D&D, but i did play quite a bit of ME1 before i dissapointed myself with ME2.

ive noticed all the ME2 crowds can do is point out that ME1 fans are in the minority, when to me it seems it couldnt be anything greater then 50/50. always so overly defensive too. interesting.

We only point out that you are in a minority position because so many people post that Bioware should listen to the "fans".  It's like telling a police officer that you're their boss because you pay taxes. You are only one of millions of taxpayers and not anyone's boss.

And 50/50? Hardly. Polls just on these boards overwhelming think posters really like ME2. And ME2 sales were fine, even in the midst of a major slump in gaming sales, and the reviewers fell over themselves to praise the game.

As far as listening to fans, Bioware has a major measure that they're aiming to improve: the percentage of people who complete their game. They've spoken about it many times. Many of the changes we saw in ME2 were designed to try to improve that percentage. They plan changes to improve it more. They has 100% to do with pleasing their fans. However, it might not please you. That doesn't mean Bioware has cynically sold out, it just means that they can't please everyone.

[Whatever42]

Drake_Hound wrote...

I think problem is since EA take over , (remember DA:O was a project 7 years long)
They are pushing games to come out faster and faster , ME3 infact should not be released this year .
But 1 year later , even if ME3 was in creation same time as ME 2 .

Bioware usually don´t rush things , they like quality control . I have no doubt DA2 with time will get beter .
Especially with the DA2 DLC , but other hand I have a feeling DA2 is just a prequel to DA3 .
So is DA3 coming out next year ? or are they giving DA2 2 year run with DLC to improve it .

Since EA take over for good reason , cause buying up bioware didn´t come cheap .
They are forced to neglect quality and just push out volumes  .

Anyway ME3 is not Bioware last hope , SWTOR is , cause that game has been in development for 5+ years .
I really hope ME3 won´t come out this fall , but delayed sound stupid , cause yes I want to play it and know the outcome of the trilogy , but I rather have quality especially for the end of this wonderfull serie .

Quality was better pre-EA? ME1 was buggy and reused environments in a far more glaring fashion than DA2. In fact, Bioware games usually release with some bugs. They are even known for it. I read the reviews for games like DA2 and even the reviewers point out that Bioware bugs are typical.

I feel like I'm on a board discussing indy music: I knew so-and-so before they got famous and sold-out!

[Daeion]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Drake_Hound wrote...

I think problem is since EA take over , (remember DA:O was a project 7 years long)
They are pushing games to come out faster and faster , ME3 infact should not be released this year .
But 1 year later , even if ME3 was in creation same time as ME 2 .

Bioware usually don´t rush things , they like quality control . I have no doubt DA2 with time will get beter .
Especially with the DA2 DLC , but other hand I have a feeling DA2 is just a prequel to DA3 .
So is DA3 coming out next year ? or are they giving DA2 2 year run with DLC to improve it .

Since EA take over for good reason , cause buying up bioware didn´t come cheap .
They are forced to neglect quality and just push out volumes  .

Anyway ME3 is not Bioware last hope , SWTOR is , cause that game has been in development for 5+ years .
I really hope ME3 won´t come out this fall , but delayed sound stupid , cause yes I want to play it and know the outcome of the trilogy , but I rather have quality especially for the end of this wonderfull serie .

Quality was better pre-EA? ME1 was buggy and reused environments in a far more glaring fashion than DA2. In fact, Bioware games usually release with some bugs. They are even known for it. I read the reviews for games like DA2 and even the reviewers point out that Bioware bugs are typical.

I feel like I'm on a board discussing indy music: I knew so-and-so before they got famous and sold-out!

Are you serious?  ME reused enviroments more then DA2?  Ha, ha, what are you smoking and where can I get it?  The nature of any location based RPG is that you are going to do a lot of things in one area but you'll typically have multiple locations to pull from.  DA2 you have daytime and nightime kirkwall, that's the ultimate in enviroment reuse.

[Drake_Hound]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Drake_Hound wrote...

I think problem is since EA take over , (remember DA:O was a project 7 years long)
They are pushing games to come out faster and faster , ME3 infact should not be released this year .
But 1 year later , even if ME3 was in creation same time as ME 2 .

Bioware usually don´t rush things , they like quality control . I have no doubt DA2 with time will get beter .
Especially with the DA2 DLC , but other hand I have a feeling DA2 is just a prequel to DA3 .
So is DA3 coming out next year ? or are they giving DA2 2 year run with DLC to improve it .

Since EA take over for good reason , cause buying up bioware didn´t come cheap .
They are forced to neglect quality and just push out volumes  .

Anyway ME3 is not Bioware last hope , SWTOR is , cause that game has been in development for 5+ years .
I really hope ME3 won´t come out this fall , but delayed sound stupid , cause yes I want to play it and know the outcome of the trilogy , but I rather have quality especially for the end of this wonderfull serie .

Quality was better pre-EA? ME1 was buggy and reused environments in a far more glaring fashion than DA2. In fact, Bioware games usually release with some bugs. They are even known for it. I read the reviews for games like DA2 and even the reviewers point out that Bioware bugs are typical.

I feel like I'm on a board discussing indy music: I knew so-and-so before they got famous and sold-out!

ME1 buggy ? I cannot remember any bugs , sorry I opened up the disc after 2 years , since I only bought it cause its bioware , but didn´t want to play it cause it was a shootemup (shootemup overburn back then) , but  I didn´t find one bug aside from being humped onto a area in the citadel council room .
No crashes no issues nothing .

ME2 crashed on me 5 times , especially during loading ... infact it was easier to run trough citadel with storm movement and faster , then loading up the rapid transport .

You say reuse envoirement , honestly which game doesn´t reuse envoirement , as long reusing envoirement makes sense , thats what counts .... as long it fits into the story or feeling .
I land on iceplanet yes i expect the ice storms and landscape , I land on a red planet I expect the envoirement to be red , sure the green luster planets were not green but atleast those bugs made a difference .

So you are saying , about indy music ?
Just people like to rephrase new words like reused contents , honestly its just freaking crap .
Almost all games have reused contents in one way or another . its making people not notice thats the difference .

[Oilking72]

Bioware's last hope?  Are you serious?  Quite frankly they've yet to make a bad game and all the people whose lives Bioware has ruined for daring to make games that they want to make are just angry because the sequels to games they like changed.

It seems to me it speaks more about the people complaining that Bioware's the devil and they'll never support them ever again, than the games they're making.

The fact is that ME1 was great.  It had it's problems but it was a game that to date I've played through 13 times.

ME2 was also great and while I would have liked to see them improve some elements instead of scratching them and doing something different, I still thought ME2 was an improvement in almost every way.  You see, I can enjoy a game for what it is, not be miserable wishing the game was something else.

DA:O, for me was really good in a lot of ways.  Great story, really good voice work, but IMO, the difficulty levels were totally unbalanced.  Now if that makes me a terrible tactician then that's probably what I am, but when I'm getting my can owned on Normal when there's two or three higher difficulty levels then there's an issue.

DA II is also a really good game and IMO, improves on Origins in a lot of areas.  Better graphics, voicework and again, IMO, the gameplay is better and more fun to play.  Really, I don't consider having to grind it out and micromanage every single incounter a hundred different ways just to avoid getting crushed a good time.  It seems these types of people are the ones that are the most disturbed by the change to this franchise.

All of the above were rated fairly high and all the yelling and crying by the vocal minority isn't going to change the fact that they're all really good games.  As for all of those Metecritic user review averages that some people like to throw out there, were talking 200+ people.  That's hardly enough to get a sweat over.

Now if some people don't want to support Bioware anymore then I say good riddance.  I'll continue to do so because they continue to make great games.

Finally, despite what some people say, Bioware is the one company in this industry that actually DOES listen to their fans.

[Whatever42]

Drake_Hound wrote...
ME1 buggy ? I cannot remember any bugs , sorry I opened up the disc after 2 years , since I only bought it cause its bioware , but didn´t want to play it cause it was a shootemup (shootemup overburn back then) , but  I didn´t find one bug aside from being humped onto a area in the citadel council room .
No crashes no issues nothing .

ME2 crashed on me 5 times , especially during loading ... infact it was easier to run trough citadel with storm movement and faster , then loading up the rapid transport .

You say reuse envoirement , honestly which game doesn´t reuse envoirement , as long reusing envoirement makes sense , thats what counts .... as long it fits into the story or feeling .
I land on iceplanet yes i expect the ice storms and landscape , I land on a red planet I expect the envoirement to be red , sure the green luster planets were not green but atleast those bugs made a difference .

So you are saying , about indy music ?
Just people like to rephrase new words like reused contents , honestly its just freaking crap .
Almost all games have reused contents in one way or another . its making people not notice thats the difference .

Actually, neither ME1 or ME2 ever crashed for me. I'm guessing your problem is related to drivers. As far as bugs... the shadows were freaking awful. And in both ME1 and ME2, I get caught on the terrain. Just out of curiousity, what DA2 bugs are you complaining about? I haven't noticed anything really.

ME1 planets were cookie cutter. Every mission outside of the main missions when to identical complexes or mines with identical layouts. I'm shocked you never noticed. And the planets had nice skies and different weather but basically, the terrain was largely identical.

And, yes, most game reuse environments. Oblivion did, Fallout 3 did, Morrowind did. I think ME1 did to a ridiculous degree. ME2 really didn't but it was an exception. So why is everyone blasting DA2 for it? Probably they did it to the same ridiculous degree as ME1.

Forget the commend about indy music, it was just a crack about posers and elitism.

[Drake_Hound]

I have not installed DA2 cause am fantasy overburn and after DA:O DLC fiasco .
I will wait a bit till they fix the DLC to work properly .
So am not in a rush to play DA2 at all , so no complaints from me about it

ME2 DLC am having aside from Kasumi (memory leak file , but still able to be installed but corrupted the EA manager help file)

My drivers are fine my settings are fine , why cause I play more games then Bioware games .
None of them have caused me problems , yes my rig needs to be replaced .but sloppy coding stays sloppy coding .

Now don´t get me wrong I love ME2 just wish it had more RPG elements from ME1 .
If ME3 was out today , I probaly go out and buy a new rig just to play it .
I will refrain from comments about DA2 till i play it and finish it , but since am fantasy overburn .
It wouldn´t be fair to play DA2 at this moment , would only get WTF stupid same kill X and gather X crap , where is my equiping my party members , this is a RPG game not some action gods of war.

So one of the reason I don´t want to install it .

[shep82]

Oilking72 wrote...

Bioware's last hope?  Are you serious?  Quite frankly they've yet to make a bad game and all the people whose lives Bioware has ruined for daring to make games that they want to make are just angry because the sequels to games they like changed.

It seems to me it speaks more about the people complaining that Bioware's the devil and they'll never support them ever again, than the games they're making.

The fact is that ME1 was great.  It had it's problems but it was a game that to date I've played through 13 times.

ME2 was also great and while I would have liked to see them improve some elements instead of scratching them and doing something different, I still thought ME2 was an improvement in almost every way.  You see, I can enjoy a game for what it is, not be miserable wishing the game was something else.

DA:O, for me was really good in a lot of ways.  Great story, really good voice work, but IMO, the difficulty levels were totally unbalanced.  Now if that makes me a terrible tactician then that's probably what I am, but when I'm getting my can owned on Normal when there's two or three higher difficulty levels then there's an issue.

DA II is also a really good game and IMO, improves on Origins in a lot of areas.  Better graphics, voicework and again, IMO, the gameplay is better and more fun to play.  Really, I don't consider having to grind it out and micromanage every single incounter a hundred different ways just to avoid getting crushed a good time.  It seems these types of people are the ones that are the most disturbed by the change to this franchise.

All of the above were rated fairly high and all the yelling and crying by the vocal minority isn't going to change the fact that they're all really good games.  As for all of those Metecritic user review averages that some people like to throw out there, were talking 200+ people.  That's hardly enough to get a sweat over.

Now if some people don't want to support Bioware anymore then I say good riddance.  I'll continue to do so because they continue to make great games.

Finally, despite what some people say, Bioware is the one company in this industry that actually DOES listen to their fans.

Thank you! Very well put.

[Whatever42]

Drake_Hound wrote...

I have not installed DA2 cause am fantasy overburn and after DA:O DLC fiasco .
I will wait a bit till they fix the DLC to work properly .
So am not in a rush to play DA2 at all , so no complaints from me about it

ME2 DLC am having aside from Kasumi (memory leak file , but still able to be installed but corrupted the EA manager help file)

My drivers are fine my settings are fine , why cause I play more games then Bioware games .
None of them have caused me problems , yes my rig needs to be replaced .but sloppy coding stays sloppy coding .

Now don´t get me wrong I love ME2 just wish it had more RPG elements from ME1 .
If ME3 was out today , I probaly go out and buy a new rig just to play it .
I will refrain from comments about DA2 till i play it and finish it , but since am fantasy overburn .
It wouldn´t be fair to play DA2 at this moment , would only get WTF stupid same kill X and gather X crap , where is my equiping my party members , this is a RPG game not some action gods of war.

So one of the reason I don´t want to install it .

Yeah, I heard the DLC from DA was pretty horrible. And I know what you mean about fantasy overload. I bought it and then I barely touched it for days - it didn't help that the start of the game is just so freaking boring. What is it with Bioware and boring beginnings?

There's no real kill X number of this crap in the game - the quests are all really well done and often very dramatic. However, the main story is no where to be found during all of ACT I, which is really odd. As someone who loved Morrowind, I can deal with that, its just odd for a Bioware game. And you can equip your party with weapons and trinkets, just not armor. But hey, at least their outfits make sense!

I agree that I would like to see more RPG elements in ME3: more personalization, more exploration, etc. The reason I argue so much is that I would like them to spend their time on story and character more than tinkering with mechanics. Sure, give us more outfits but don't rip out the inventory system again; that will just result in less time on MY priorities.

[AlanC9]

Drake_Hound wrote...
ME1 buggy ? I cannot remember any bugs , sorry I opened up the disc after 2 years , since I only bought it cause its bioware , but didn´t want to play it cause it was a shootemup (shootemup overburn back then) , but  I didn´t find one bug aside from being humped onto a area in the citadel council room .
No crashes no issues nothing .

ME2 crashed on me 5 times , especially during loading ... infact it was easier to run trough citadel with storm movement and faster , then loading up the rapid transport .

That's you. On my rig ME1 was extremely crash-prone. ME2 was not.

[Il Divo]

Daeion wrote...

Are you serious?  ME reused enviroments more then DA2?  Ha, ha, what are you smoking and where can I get it?  The nature of any location based RPG is that you are going to do a lot of things in one area but you'll typically have multiple locations to pull from.  DA2 you have daytime and nightime kirkwall, that's the ultimate in enviroment reuse.

It's also important to consider if environmental re-use makes sense. In DA2, I don't expect Kirkwall to change from day to night; it's still the same damn city. In Mass Effect, I didn't expect every mercenary group across the galaxy to make use of the exact same three room merc base, which is a huge problem with attempting to create a large world.

[Naltair]

Il Divo wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Are you serious?  ME reused enviroments more then DA2?  Ha, ha, what are you smoking and where can I get it?  The nature of any location based RPG is that you are going to do a lot of things in one area but you'll typically have multiple locations to pull from.  DA2 you have daytime and nightime kirkwall, that's the ultimate in enviroment reuse.

It's also important to consider if environmental re-use makes sense. In DA2, I don't expect Kirkwall to change from day to night; it's still the same damn city. In Mass Effect, I didn't expect every mercenary group across the galaxy to make use of the exact same three room merc base, which is a huge problem with attempting to create a large world.

Exactly, it's not a great thing that DAII went that route but ME1 was very bad and very blatant about the side quests were just filler with reused art resources.

[Gatt9]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

The "D&D" crowd was the one that was pissed off about ME2 to begin with.

never played D&D, but i did play quite a bit of ME1 before i dissapointed myself with ME2.

ive noticed all the ME2 crowds can do is point out that ME1 fans are in the minority, when to me it seems it couldnt be anything greater then 50/50. always so overly defensive too. interesting.

We only point out that you are in a minority position because so many people post that Bioware should listen to the "fans".  It's like telling a police officer that you're their boss because you pay taxes. You are only one of millions of taxpayers and not anyone's boss.

And 50/50? Hardly. Polls just on these boards overwhelming think posters really like ME2. And ME2 sales were fine, even in the midst of a major slump in gaming sales, and the reviewers fell over themselves to praise the game.

As far as listening to fans, Bioware has a major measure that they're aiming to improve: the percentage of people who complete their game. They've spoken about it many times. Many of the changes we saw in ME2 were designed to try to improve that percentage. They plan changes to improve it more. They has 100% to do with pleasing their fans. However, it might not please you. That doesn't mean Bioware has cynically sold out, it just means that they can't please everyone.

I'm afraid that your analogy doesn't work,  the Police Officer isn't trying to get me to buy something.  Bioware OTOH is,  and if they'd like me to spend money on their games,  they should probably avoid labelling TPS's as RPGs.  Because I was *really* ticked off when I found out that all my waiting,  anticipation,  and money resulted in a completely different type of game.

I'd also be careful there on citing polls,  ME2's in no man's land.  It was a massive unadvertised shift in gameplay that clearly alienated more than a few judging from these very boards on release.  What people's real takeaway is a complete unknown at present.

The same caution should be used with sales figures,  for the same reason.

As far as the reviewers go,  it's really clear that the gaming press will label anything and everything as "Greatest game ever!!!" from a big publisher.  The best point of reference would be Bethseda.  Go read the Oblivion reviews and it is called the Greatest RPG Ever,  completely flawless.  Then go read the Fallout 3 previews,  a very common commentary was "Fallout 3 fixes Oblivion's flaws by...".  Wait,  the reviews said it was flawless,  so how could Fallout 3 fix something that didn't exist?

It did exist,  the reviewers just chose to ignore it because they simply lavish praise on every big-name release,  because they want the advertising dollars and the preview copies so they can get to market faster.  Which completely invalidates the whole theory of "Critically acclaimed",  studios in their greed have made the whole concept laughable.

Trying to improve the percentage of people completing their game is laudable,  but doing so by shifting it into a different genre is laughable.  Their whole theory is tanked by virtue of the fact that they have absolutely no idea why someone didn't finish a game,  perhaps they found a new one they liked better,  perhaps the disc was damaged,  perhaps it was recycled environments.  To just assume that it was because it was too much RPG-lite and too little Shooter is just insanity.  Metrics only make sense if they're self-descriptive,  in this case,  all it tells you is that X number of people didn't finish.  It gives you absolutely no insight into why.

I also have to point out,  there's no focus group.  No survey.  In 25 years of gaming I have never been surveyed,  never seen anyone surveyed,  except for Wizard's of the Coast who do it regularly.  This decision was made in vacuum.

[Darth Death]

Oh please, this whole DA2 thing needs to rest already. As for the ingrates dubbed "fans" should go into the darkest cave & cry some more there. No one will miss them.

[Whatever42]

Gatt9, the politicians who hire the police officers need your vote for them to keep their job. The investors who hire the programmers who make mass effect need your money to keep the value of their pension fund.

If Mass Effect loses too many consumers than its a concern.That they lose YOU is not a concern.

Bioware does have focus groups. They just haven't chosen YOU, They also have many metrics, such as how many people complete the game, how many explore conversation trees, how many play what class, and they use these metrics to guide their work. They do not use what YOU or I post on these forums. We're just a pair of loud mouths who's opinion counts for nothing.

[Whatever42]

And Gatt, I have seen reviewers pan plenty of games from big name reviewers in 2010, including many big EA titles. If reviewers really enjoy a game, they can get rather excited, I agree. However, they don't lavish that praise on every game, nor every RPG.

Obilivion was an immensely popular game. That I don't particularly like it doesn't invalidate that.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 15 mars 2011 - 10:08 .