352 réponses à ce sujet

[Thompson family]

Walker White wrote...

As someone who has played RPGs since the 70s, I just want to say:

I hope BioWare continues to ignore these posts.

Like everyone, I was skeptical with the ME2 changes at first. But in the end I liked it much more than ME1. The non-combat side quests were a bit clunky, but otherwise the mechanics were extremely well designed. The "complexity" of ME1 was faux complexity and I often found myself wanting to write Bots to automate the process.

Likewise, I have been playing DA2 now and I like it much more than DA:O. The gameplay is much better; I find myself being far, far more tactical with my party than I ever was in DA:O. The side missions are infinitely superior to those in DA:O. And the character writing is very solid. The only problem I have with DA2 is the recycling of locations. It is extensive and immersion-breaking. But both DA:O and ME1 both had this problem as well.

Face it. The people posting on these forums are in the minority. The reason why the DA2 forums are overrun with haters is because the rest of us are playing the d*mn game. In fact, I am on this forum and not the DA2 forums to avoid spoilers, as I am not done yet.

Agree on all points

[mereck7980]

Thompson family wrote...

Walker White wrote...

As someone who has played RPGs since the 70s, I just want to say:

I hope BioWare continues to ignore these posts.

Like everyone, I was skeptical with the ME2 changes at first. But in the end I liked it much more than ME1. The non-combat side quests were a bit clunky, but otherwise the mechanics were extremely well designed. The "complexity" of ME1 was faux complexity and I often found myself wanting to write Bots to automate the process.

Likewise, I have been playing DA2 now and I like it much more than DA:O. The gameplay is much better; I find myself being far, far more tactical with my party than I ever was in DA:O. The side missions are infinitely superior to those in DA:O. And the character writing is very solid. The only problem I have with DA2 is the recycling of locations. It is extensive and immersion-breaking. But both DA:O and ME1 both had this problem as well.

Face it. The people posting on these forums are in the minority. The reason why the DA2 forums are overrun with haters is because the rest of us are playing the d*mn game. In fact, I am on this forum and not the DA2 forums to avoid spoilers, as I am not done yet.

Agree on all points

Same here.  There is a nest of trolls over in the DA forum page (i.e. all the EA CANCER threads) and I would sincerely hope that they find something better to do than profess the end of the best game studio on Earth.  Long Live Bioware!

[Vena_86]

mereck7980 wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Walker White wrote...

As someone who has played RPGs since the 70s, I just want to say:

I hope BioWare continues to ignore these posts.

Like everyone, I was skeptical with the ME2 changes at first. But in the end I liked it much more than ME1. The non-combat side quests were a bit clunky, but otherwise the mechanics were extremely well designed. The "complexity" of ME1 was faux complexity and I often found myself wanting to write Bots to automate the process.

Likewise, I have been playing DA2 now and I like it much more than DA:O. The gameplay is much better; I find myself being far, far more tactical with my party than I ever was in DA:O. The side missions are infinitely superior to those in DA:O. And the character writing is very solid. The only problem I have with DA2 is the recycling of locations. It is extensive and immersion-breaking. But both DA:O and ME1 both had this problem as well.

Face it. The people posting on these forums are in the minority. The reason why the DA2 forums are overrun with haters is because the rest of us are playing the d*mn game. In fact, I am on this forum and not the DA2 forums to avoid spoilers, as I am not done yet.

Agree on all points

Same here.  There is a nest of trolls over in the DA forum page (i.e. all the EA CANCER threads) and I would sincerely hope that they find something better to do than profess the end of the best game studio on Earth.  Long Live Bioware!

DA2 is doing poorly and gets universal criticims, not just on these forums.
Face it, your "you are in the minority" posts don't work anymore.

A good RPG these days should have more to offer than fluent combat.
I'd rather explore the (seamingly) barren surface of Mars than shooting my 1000000000th bullet from the same gun again. Why? Because it has more meaning, more value more adventure and it's something different for a change.
Keep calling everyone with negative feedback trolls and those "trolls" will keep calling everyone with positive feedback "CoD kiddies". Generalization is fun isn't it? <_<

[Gatt9]

Vena_86 wrote...

mereck7980 wrote...

Thompson family wrote...

Walker White wrote...

As someone who has played RPGs since the 70s, I just want to say:

I hope BioWare continues to ignore these posts.

Like everyone, I was skeptical with the ME2 changes at first. But in the end I liked it much more than ME1. The non-combat side quests were a bit clunky, but otherwise the mechanics were extremely well designed. The "complexity" of ME1 was faux complexity and I often found myself wanting to write Bots to automate the process.

Likewise, I have been playing DA2 now and I like it much more than DA:O. The gameplay is much better; I find myself being far, far more tactical with my party than I ever was in DA:O. The side missions are infinitely superior to those in DA:O. And the character writing is very solid. The only problem I have with DA2 is the recycling of locations. It is extensive and immersion-breaking. But both DA:O and ME1 both had this problem as well.

Face it. The people posting on these forums are in the minority. The reason why the DA2 forums are overrun with haters is because the rest of us are playing the d*mn game. In fact, I am on this forum and not the DA2 forums to avoid spoilers, as I am not done yet.

Agree on all points

Same here.  There is a nest of trolls over in the DA forum page (i.e. all the EA CANCER threads) and I would sincerely hope that they find something better to do than profess the end of the best game studio on Earth.  Long Live Bioware!

DA2 is doing poorly and gets universal criticims, not just on these forums.
Face it, your "you are in the minority" posts don't work anymore.

A good RPG these days should have more to offer than fluent combat.
I'd rather explore the (seamingly) barren surface of Mars than shooting my 1000000000th bullet from the same gun again. Why? Because it has more meaning, more value more adventure and it's something different for a change.
Keep calling everyone with negative feedback trolls and those "trolls" will keep calling everyone with positive feedback "CoD kiddies". Generalization is fun isn't it? <_<

Agree!

RPGs should be evolving into RPGs,  they should be permiting greater customization and depth,  akin to Fallout a decade ago.  In Fallout,  if I rolled someone with a low intelligence,  the entire game factored that in.  In ME2 I have no stats,  Shephard has no intrinsic qualities,  the game does not recognize a stupid shephard.  Instead,  all customization is gone,  and it plays like Gears of War for some strange reason.

DA2 is even worse,  not only can my character not be a muscle bound idiot,  his dialogue is color coded just in case I didn't figure out "Up is good down is bad". 

20 years ago Might & Magic let me explore a whole world and find remote dungeons with rewards for doing it.  10 years ago M&M6-9 took that idea and even let me find random Artifacts.  Today,  ME2 and DA2 put me on rails and I have no exploration.

I can't do things I could do 10 or 20 years ago today,  my gameplay is more akin to a Shooter than anything else.  How can anyone call this progress?  I could do more on 2 megabytes of RAM and a 90mhz processor than I can do on 8 gigabytes of ram with a 3.2ghz processor.  I had at best 650 megabytes of space on a CD,  a 250 megabyte harddrive.  Today I have a DVD drive with 5 gigabytes of space,  I have 3 terrabytes in hard drive space and 128 gigabytes on an SSD.

And I can't do what I could do 10 or 20 years ago.

This is not progress.

[CoolioThane]

ME2 was great.

[Phaedon]

Valmarn wrote...
You must have pretty low standards to consider 50% or 60% to be "average." Even that 74% is borderline, IMNSHO, especially considering BioWare's track record.

No, based solely on those numbers, they're not exactly negative, but when you consider the verbal content of those reviews, it's pretty clear that the reviewers weren't really in love with the game.

As though it would matter, I also seem to recall them giving it a 3 out of 5 (60%) on X-Play, as well.

The problem is that these are not my standards, that's Metacritic's standards, and I'd say that they know a bit more about statistics than me and you. Check the scores of other games, 84 is pretty good.

Would I play Dragon Age 2? Absolutely, but unless someone gave me their game, it won't be until it gets down to $20 that it'll see the inside of my DVD-ROM. Even then, my money's not exactly going to be burning a hole in my wallet. Afterall, I'm still having far too much fun playing Dragon Age: Origins...lol[

Your personal opinion is irrelevant.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
That's right. With the ME2 characters fanbases put off, ME3 risks to get the same treatment DA2 is getting ATM, even if it is objectively a bettter game than ME2.


To show or not to show,* that is the question!
________
* Tali's face.

if it is objectively a bettter game than ME2.

objectively

Zulu post.

Modifié par Phaedon, 14 mars 2011 - 12:28 .

[yesikareyes]

It irks me that sometimes some of the people here love to hate and criticize. I don't have anything against voicing out opinions but most of the time it's just pure bashing over trivial things. I didn't join this forum for arguments, I just wanted to have casual conversations and discussions with fellow fans and gamers.

[blacqout]

I avoided this place for a few weeks leading up to the European release, to avoid spoilers, and then only looked again this morning after finishing it.

Was the response to DA2 here really that bad? I thought it was a great game and love the direction BioWare seem to be taking the series.

[spacehamsterZH]

Korusus wrote...
the recycled areas just reeks of amateurism.  I can't even imagine the Mass Effect team doing something similar.

So... you've never played the first Mass Effect. Okay.

Seriously though, I haven't played DA2 yet (and I doubt I will anytime soon), but hearing about that was disappointing. Not because BW has never done it before, but because they went to such clearly felt lengths to avoid it with ME2 that it's really weird DA2 would suddenly have it now. Supposedly the Dragon Age team took a good look at ME2, you have to wonder how they, uh, missed this part. But to say it's unimaginable for the ME team to do copy/paste areas is just silly.

As for the doom and gloom here... yawn. Bioware ComplainBoard in da hizzouse, eh? The backlash against DA2 does seem more believable than with ME2 (mostly because it's not just happening here), but let's wait and see how the game is assessed once the dust has settled and more people have actually finished it. And I guess the yakkin' about what a horrible game ME2 was is never going to stop, but it's an objectively observable fact that it's a landslide success for Bioware. So that's... one potentially somewhat bombed game (i.e. DA2), and you guys are already calling this the end of Bioware? Ho-kay...

[yesikareyes]

blacqout wrote...

I avoided this place for a few weeks leading up to the European release, to avoid spoilers, and then only looked again this morning after finishing it.

Was the response to DA2 here really that bad? I thought it was a great game and love the direction BioWare seem to be taking the series.

I made a topic yesterday asking fellow gamers why DA2 had such a negative response and I noticed that most of the people who were upset were pure RPG fans that liked a different type of gameplay. It was also mentioned that Bioware streamlined the Dragon Age series to attract different type of gamers. Well, I think it was a smart move to heighten consumer awareness and market flexibility.

I can't believe people are putting to much weight on the repetitive environments and the companion gear customization. Yeah, I'll be honest I noticed those details and I agree that Bioware could have polished on that a bit more but it's not something to be running around in outrage for. I really enjoyed the game in terms of content, action and its innate potential to expand as a series.

[GnusmasTHX]

To be honest the giant pile of **** that was pre-release bonus content and their (non-existent) delivery was more irksome than any complaint I could have about the game itself.

[maxut85]

Walker White wrote...

As someone who has played RPGs since the 70s, I just want to say:

I hope BioWare continues to ignore these posts.

Like everyone, I was skeptical with the ME2 changes at first. But in the end I liked it much more than ME1. The non-combat side quests were a bit clunky, but otherwise the mechanics were extremely well designed. The "complexity" of ME1 was faux complexity and I often found myself wanting to write Bots to automate the process.

Likewise, I have been playing DA2 now and I like it much more than DA:O. The gameplay is much better; I find myself being far, far more tactical with my party than I ever was in DA:O. The side missions are infinitely superior to those in DA:O. And the character writing is very solid. The only problem I have with DA2 is the recycling of locations. It is extensive and immersion-breaking. But both DA:O and ME1 both had this problem as well.

Face it. The people posting on these forums are in the minority. The reason why the DA2 forums are overrun with haters is because the rest of us are playing the d*mn game. In fact, I am on this forum and not the DA2 forums to avoid spoilers, as I am not done yet.

That can't be completely true. If it is true then why does this game have one of the lowest review averages from bioware ever ? 

[f1r3storm]

Did anyone expect that the internet hate train, which started months before DA2's release, wouldn't reach it's climax when the game releases?

Of course, not anyone likes DA2, that's okay. But DA2 is far away from being a "bad" game.

[Thompson family]

DA2 is doing poorly and gets universal criticims, not just on these forums.
Face it, your "you are in the minority" posts don't work anymore.

Exactly when did DA2 become ME2?

I can hear the reply already: "But DA2 is an indication that Bioware is going to pot." That's pretty much the whole point of this thread, insomuch as it approaches having any point whatsoever.

The fact remains that ME2 is already what you claim DA2 has become -- and it didn't flop. It sold more copies than ME1 and was vastly more profitable thanks to DLC sales.

If your point had any validity whatsoever, ME2 would have suffered the supposed dire consequences and lackluster sales last year that you now claim for DA2.

If there is any relationship between these games whatsoever, it's this: The success of ME2 convinced BioWare to try the same thing with DA2. In the worst case, what worked and worked well with ME2 hasn't worked in -- a different market.

Does anybody here really believe the science fiction and the fantasy audiences are 100 percent congruent?

Pardon the stereotype, but I would not be surprised that the "D&D" crowd was much more upset about the loss of clunkly characterization than we, as a whole, are.

If there's a lesson to be drawn here at all, it is that what works for us doesn't work for the swinging swords and sorcery crowd, and vice versa. Or perhaps that the Science Fiction/RPG elitist market is a much smaller niche than the Swords & Sorcery/RPG elitist one.

Modifié par Thompson family, 14 mars 2011 - 01:30 .

[Phaedon]

The "D&D" crowd was the one that was pissed off about ME2 to begin with.

[dolphin1329]

CoolioThane wrote...

ME2 was great.

Yep, honestly I can't even go back to playing ME1, ME2 was better in every way to me.

[marshalleck]

Thompson family wrote...

If there is any relationship between these games whatsoever, it's this: The success of ME2 convinced BioWare to try the same thing with DA2. In the worst case, what worked and worked well with ME2 hasn't worked in -- a different market.

Does anybody here really believe the science fiction and the fantasy audiences are 100 percent congruent?

I think it's not so much sci-fi vs. fantasy markets...I think it's mostly a single Bioware market. I very much doubt that a majority of players stick to only one series...most gamers who recognize the Bioware brand have probably played several of their games including both DA and ME. 

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

The "D&D" crowd was the one that was pissed off about ME2 to begin with.

More like the critical thinking crowd. If you can't see some of the huge flaws ME2 had, you're either blind or willfully ignorant.

Modifié par marshalleck, 14 mars 2011 - 01:43 .

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
More like the critical thinking crowd. 

Yes, I forgot about how everyone who doesn't want the same mechanics being used for 40 consecutive years in games, is just sheep who can't think for themselves.

[CroGamer002]

marshalleck wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

The "D&D" crowd was the one that was pissed off about ME2 to begin with.

More like the critical thinking crowd. If you can't see some of the huge flaws ME2 had, you're either blind or willfully ignorant.

Since when did you become mister Everything-I-say-is-correct-and-your-opinions-are-stupid-if-not-agreed-with-mine-opinion-which-is-actually-a-fact?

[marshalleck]

Mesina2 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

The "D&D" crowd was the one that was pissed off about ME2 to begin with.

More like the critical thinking crowd. If you can't see some of the huge flaws ME2 had, you're either blind or willfully ignorant.

Since when did you become mister Everything-I-say-is-correct-and-your-opinions-are-stupid-if-not-agreed-with-mine-opinion-which-is-actually-a-fact?

Since I actually spent some time thinking about some of the more questionable aspects of ME2. Most of the flaws I would point out are really not very subjective at all--anyone who pays attention to the game and thinks about it for more than 5 seconds would at least admit the logic of it, even if it does not personally detract from their experience very much. 

[Killa2k]

tbh im not gunna flame them Bioware are a great producer of good quality RPG's of which in my opinion and it is only my opinion, DA2 fails to be but i imagine they will listen to the large majority of complaints and screwing over DA2 and remedy it at least im hoping they do...Good luck Bioware only time will tell "fingers crossed for ME3"

Modifié par Killa2k, 14 mars 2011 - 01:56 .

[Whatever42]

marshalleck wrote...
Since I actually spent some time thinking about some of the more questionable aspects of ME2. Most of the flaws I would point out are really not very subjective at all--anyone who pays attention to the game and thinks about it for more than 5 seconds would at least admit the logic of it, even if it does not personally detract from their experience very much. 

I'm not sure what you're referring to as flaws but if its the usual suspects then its usually not flaws per se, its that the game could have been better. But you can say that about every single game ever made. Game not only have budgets and limited development time, designers have to balance many elements. Any choice they make will disappoint someone.

Ultimately, what is subjective whether the game delivers an experience that people enjoy. Thats why a point-by-point comparison of fames is absolutely futile. I can point out the reused environments in ME1, the technical flaws, the weak side missions, some of the weak dialogue, etc. And not one bit of it matters at all because if you enjoyed the game then those things are largely unimportant.

ME2 certainly had a lacklustre main story line. It lacked personalization we've come to expect in RPGs. However, if I enjoyed ME2 (even more than ME1) then while I'll acknowledge the criticism, nothing you say will convince me that ME2 is anything short of brilliant.

[Whatever42]

Killa2k wrote...

tbh im not gunna flame them Bioware are a great producer of good quality RPG's of which in my opinion and it is only my opinion, DA2 fails to be but i imagine they will listen to the large majority of complaints and screwing over DA2 and remedy it at least im hoping they do...Good luck Bioware only time will tell "fingers crossed for ME3"

I played a lot more of DA2 this weekend and I personally think the writing is brilliant in DA2. Yes, they reused some environments, but as an old-time RPGer, that bothered me less than I thought. I thought I'd get bored of the limited vistas but I enjoy the depth of the story, even if does lack breadth.

I can see why people would prefer DAO. DAO was a more traditional RPG, with a lost prince and broad vistas. You got to interact more with the characters, the talent trees allowed more customizability, you could dress up your companions.

But the writing in DA2 is better than DAO and the story is deeper and more personal. The combat is certainly more fun and challenging. Other than the reusable environments, I see no drop in quality here. DA2 is an excellent game, even if some of their innovations aren't popular.

[Uszi]

Phaedon wrote...

Uszi wrote...

It seems to me, the game should be judged on its own mertis, not how it failed to conform to one's expectations. 

You are giving the user scores too much credit.

The general consensus on gaming forums that I visit is that it was a raid by /v/

I meant to imply that the user scores on meta critic were vote bombing activism, as evidenced by the fact that the line of reasoning as to why many users were giving DA2 a 0 score is almost always a total non sequitor of the form:  "DA2 isn't as good as DA1, therefore DA2 is objectively bad."

I think that isn't initially clear in my post because I was trying to be diplomatic.

DTKT wrote...

It's going to be a clown show if ME3 has the same production values.

Recycle the same areas? common.

Yeah it's not like that isn't totally explained.  You stay in 1 place for 10 years, so are you expecting the dungeons to change around?  Why would they?

You know whats a game that recycled environments?  

One that didn't have a good explanation for why it was done?

ME1

You fought inside the same goddam bunker a hundred times.  For no reason.

Anyway, the argument is bogus because ME1 remains a great game even if it did recycle environments.  Recycling assets is a pretty important corner cutting strategy in game making, and if a game is good to the extent that it does not recycle assets then you're list of good games is going to be extremely short.

Modifié par Uszi, 14 mars 2011 - 02:46 .