24 réponses à ce sujet

[We Tigers]

I'm playing a DPS mage, and I'm curious as to thoughts on the Elemental Weapons talent so far.  According to the wiki, it provides a 10% damage boost to all party weapon damage.  This also applies to special attacks that use a weapon.  At a cost of only 10% of the mana reserve, this seems like a pretty good ability for a mage rolling with several rogues and warriors in the party.  Anything I'm missing here that would suggest avoiding it instead--for example, does the elemental damage get cancelled out quickly by enemy resistances, since it's a small quantity?  I was a big fan of the elemental buffs in DA:O, and this seems like a pretty good, simple investment in a build.

I'm playing on normal the first time through, but the question could be applicable to all difficulty levels.

[Wintermist]

I didn't find it especially useful. If you do 100 damage it adds 10. It's only worth it as a bonus if your caster doesn't actively have many other spells to cast and as thus doesn't use his mana pool fully in battle.

[Stetzer13]

I was thinking the same thing. I'm only level 10, but elemental weapons only seemed to add like +5-11 (based on weapon dmg maybe?) fire damage to my attacks. My rogue without elemental weapons hits for 200-300 damage each hit without using abilities. Adding a measly +5-11 dmg seemed like it wasn't worth it. I think I'm going to be investing my point elsewhere.

[corksacker]

I think its good as a filler skill to get crushing prison.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

Total mana available isn't incredibly important all by itself anyways. There are only so many buttons you can press, depending on your level. Taking into consideration all the cooldowns those buttons have, and the cooldown on your mana and restoration pot (ie: you can restore your mana twice in one mana pot cooldown), you need to then make an educated decision if a sustained spell is worth it.

For me, at least, when you take all that into consideration, they are always worth it as I never use all my mana inbetween my two potion cooldowns to begin with.

[Vodrath]

Will the bonuses you get from being a force mage, or any other talents that bestow + elemental damage, increase the damage elemental weapons add to your party's weapon damage? If so, it may be a sweet sustainable that is not to be missed.

[MadDjinn]

Given that it's a 'per strike' addition, that's not bad if you've got a DW rogue with high attack speed. (So haste helps even more)

There are limits of course, but at lower levels, it's a very nice thing to have. Also consider that it buffs the mages staff as well. There are staffs that give % increases to the same type of staff damage, so a 30 goes to 33 +% (on top of other %s).

Maybe at higher levels it's less needed; but I haven't gotten there yet.

[reddragon567]

Main reason to have it is for enemies that are resistant to physical damage. Boosting your elemental damage can make fights a bit easier.

[Zoe Dedweth]

Also good in a party with LOTS of attack boosting abilties - I ran Fenris, myself 2 Handed warrior, Anders fully creation specced and Varrick. Everyone except anders had atleast 2 attack speed boosting skills - Elemental weapons normally does a coupla thousand damage per fight (that's what happens when you hit 4-5 times per second, that' 10 damage per hit x 4 = 40x4=160 and haste lasts 30 secs with upgrade, so plenty of time to lay the pain. You could actually see the difference in time without elemental weapons on and with.

[Lord Shitzu]

Every enemy in the game is weak to at least one element, all you have to do is swap your mage's staff out for the appropriate element and you can get quite a bit of extra dps, especially on characters that attack quickly, like rogues of any kind (Varric can be spec'd to get massive attack speed boosts, and melee rogues attack very quickly as well).

[gtox11]

The bonus is a flat 10%, guys. Attack speed has no bearing on it's damage.

Good points above though. The +dmg can offset some of your enemy's resistances to physical damage. I would use, or at least carry, a spirit damage staff around with you at all times regardless of your main staff. Obviously using a physical damage staff is highly discouraged with elem weps sustain (which sucks because it seems like all the best statted staffs are physical).

My personal opinion is it depends on the character. Mage Hawke? Are you a blood mage or a healer? If blood, then there is absolutely no reason not to have 100% of your mana being used for sustains (I run elemental wep, arcane shield, and heroism at all times). If your Hawke is a healer, then I would use my sustains sparingly. Perhaps keep elem wep activated, then alternate heroism and arc shield depending on the situation, or drop elem wep all together. Fact of the matter is that this game was intended to have "blazing fast" action-style combat, so healing seems to fall to the wayside.

With Anders, you are in the same boat as a Hawke healer, unless you use him as dps. Either way, you are using your mana, so you can't afford to lose a ton of mana to sustains (Luckily Anders' mana transfer ability uses 5% of your total mana, even if all you have left is 20% after sustains).

With Merril, no questions.. Use sustains just like you would with Hawke Blood Mage. The only disadvantage being that Merril has no access to Heroism (imo, the best mage sustainable).

[UsualSuspekt907]

gtox11 wrote...

The bonus is a flat 10%, guys. Attack speed has no bearing on it's damage.

Good points above though. The +dmg can offset some of your enemy's resistances to physical damage. I would use, or at least carry, a spirit damage staff around with you at all times regardless of your main staff. Obviously using a physical damage staff is highly discouraged with elem weps sustain (which sucks because it seems like all the best statted staffs are physical).

My personal opinion is it depends on the character. Mage Hawke? Are you a blood mage or a healer? If blood, then there is absolutely no reason not to have 100% of your mana being used for sustains (I run elemental wep, arcane shield, and heroism at all times). If your Hawke is a healer, then I would use my sustains sparingly. Perhaps keep elem wep activated, then alternate heroism and arc shield depending on the situation, or drop elem wep all together. Fact of the matter is that this game was intended to have "blazing fast" action-style combat, so healing seems to fall to the wayside.

With Anders, you are in the same boat as a Hawke healer, unless you use him as dps. Either way, you are using your mana, so you can't afford to lose a ton of mana to sustains (Luckily Anders' mana transfer ability uses 5% of your total mana, even if all you have left is 20% after sustains).

With Merril, no questions.. Use sustains just like you would with Hawke Blood Mage. The only disadvantage being that Merril has no access to Heroism (imo, the best mage sustainable).

@gtox11 

Your right in that its a flat 10% of the staff dmg that is added to your weapon. However, that is added to EACH hit. So the faster you hit the more dmg elemental weapons is going to do. For example you have a warrior that hits once per second and elemental weapons adds +2 dmg each hit. In 5 seconds elemental weapons has added 10dmg in that 5 second period(1 hit per second = 5 hits in 5 seconds + 2dmg each hit = 10extra dmg in 5 seconds). Now take a rogue that hits twice in that same 1 second period and elemental weapons has just added 20dmg in the same 5 second time frame(2 hits per second = 10 hits in 5 seconds + 2dmg per hit from ele weapons = 20extra dmg in the same 5 second period)
Now you can see how attack speed affects the damage elemental weapons ends up doing.
(however obvious this is I figured I would lay it out anyways)
(the numbers I use were picked from a hat and only used to make a point)

UsualSuspekt907 OUT

Modifié par UsualSuspekt907, 28 mars 2011 - 08:04 .

[muzluburz]

UsualSuspekt907 wrote...

gtox11 wrote...

The bonus is a flat 10%, guys. Attack speed has no bearing on it's damage.

Good points above though. The +dmg can offset some of your enemy's resistances to physical damage. I would use, or at least carry, a spirit damage staff around with you at all times regardless of your main staff. Obviously using a physical damage staff is highly discouraged with elem weps sustain (which sucks because it seems like all the best statted staffs are physical).

My personal opinion is it depends on the character. Mage Hawke? Are you a blood mage or a healer? If blood, then there is absolutely no reason not to have 100% of your mana being used for sustains (I run elemental wep, arcane shield, and heroism at all times). If your Hawke is a healer, then I would use my sustains sparingly. Perhaps keep elem wep activated, then alternate heroism and arc shield depending on the situation, or drop elem wep all together. Fact of the matter is that this game was intended to have "blazing fast" action-style combat, so healing seems to fall to the wayside.

With Anders, you are in the same boat as a Hawke healer, unless you use him as dps. Either way, you are using your mana, so you can't afford to lose a ton of mana to sustains (Luckily Anders' mana transfer ability uses 5% of your total mana, even if all you have left is 20% after sustains).

With Merril, no questions.. Use sustains just like you would with Hawke Blood Mage. The only disadvantage being that Merril has no access to Heroism (imo, the best mage sustainable).

@gtox11 

Your right in that its a flat 10% of the staff dmg that is added to your weapon. However, that is added to EACH hit. So the faster you hit the more dmg elemental weapons is going to do. For example you have a warrior that hits once per second and elemental weapons adds +2 dmg each hit. In 5 seconds elemental weapons has added 10dmg in that 5 second period(1 hit per second = 5 hits in 5 seconds + 2dmg each hit = 10extra dmg in 5 seconds). Now take a rogue that hits twice in that same 1 second period and elemental weapons has just added 20dmg in the same 5 second time frame(2 hits per second = 10 hits in 5 seconds + 2dmg per hit from ele weapons = 20extra dmg in the same 5 second period)
Now you can see how attack speed affects the damage elemental weapons ends up doing.
(however obvious this is I figured I would lay it out anyways)
(the numbers I use were picked from a hat and only used to make a point)

UsualSuspekt907 OUT

Attack speed does not affect the damage elemental weapons end up doing. if you manage x dps unbuffed and then 1.3x dps with an attack speed buff using elemental weapons will bring unbuffed to 1.1dps(depending on mob) or 1.4xdps with the attack speed buff.

Modifié par muzluburz, 28 mars 2011 - 08:22 .

[Meathooks333]

I never picked it up, but it would seem to me that elemental weapons used in conjunction with an enemy's elemental weakness would provide for a much easier fight, especially against lieutenants and bosses.

[UsualSuspekt907]

muzluburz wrote...

UsualSuspekt907 wrote...

gtox11 wrote...

The bonus is a flat 10%, guys. Attack speed has no bearing on it's damage.

Good points above though. The +dmg can offset some of your enemy's resistances to physical damage. I would use, or at least carry, a spirit damage staff around with you at all times regardless of your main staff. Obviously using a physical damage staff is highly discouraged with elem weps sustain (which sucks because it seems like all the best statted staffs are physical).

My personal opinion is it depends on the character. Mage Hawke? Are you a blood mage or a healer? If blood, then there is absolutely no reason not to have 100% of your mana being used for sustains (I run elemental wep, arcane shield, and heroism at all times). If your Hawke is a healer, then I would use my sustains sparingly. Perhaps keep elem wep activated, then alternate heroism and arc shield depending on the situation, or drop elem wep all together. Fact of the matter is that this game was intended to have "blazing fast" action-style combat, so healing seems to fall to the wayside.

With Anders, you are in the same boat as a Hawke healer, unless you use him as dps. Either way, you are using your mana, so you can't afford to lose a ton of mana to sustains (Luckily Anders' mana transfer ability uses 5% of your total mana, even if all you have left is 20% after sustains).

With Merril, no questions.. Use sustains just like you would with Hawke Blood Mage. The only disadvantage being that Merril has no access to Heroism (imo, the best mage sustainable).

@gtox11 

Your right in that its a flat 10% of the staff dmg that is added to your weapon. However, that is added to EACH hit. So the faster you hit the more dmg elemental weapons is going to do. For example you have a warrior that hits once per second and elemental weapons adds +2 dmg each hit. In 5 seconds elemental weapons has added 10dmg in that 5 second period(1 hit per second = 5 hits in 5 seconds + 2dmg each hit = 10extra dmg in 5 seconds). Now take a rogue that hits twice in that same 1 second period and elemental weapons has just added 20dmg in the same 5 second time frame(2 hits per second = 10 hits in 5 seconds + 2dmg per hit from ele weapons = 20extra dmg in the same 5 second period)
Now you can see how attack speed affects the damage elemental weapons ends up doing.
(however obvious this is I figured I would lay it out anyways)
(the numbers I use were picked from a hat and only used to make a point)

UsualSuspekt907 OUT

Attack speed does not affect the damage elemental weapons end up doing. if you manage x dps unbuffed and then 1.3x dps with an attack speed buff using elemental weapons will bring unbuffed to 1.1dps(depending on mob) or 1.4xdps with the attack speed buff.

Nvm you didnt get it and I dont got time to explain further.

UsualSuspekt OUT

[x-president]

I've never tried it, but it seems like a quick and easy way to exploit elemental weaknesses without arming runes.  Even if you are doing small amounts like 7 dmg, as a group that is 28 extra per hit.

And like mentioned above if you can attack faster that dmg will be even better.  I may have to try this out in my current game.

[Eudaemonium]

I find that the mian bonus of elemental weapons (in NIghtmare) beyond the small bonus in damage are the additional effects the different elements can bestow. For example, a frost staff will often let your characters freeze the enemy with their physicals, which is always nice.

[Nukenin]

Since I actually have a mage in play with Elemental Weapons being sustained I can tell you that the +damage uses the element of the mage's staff, but the 10% damage bonus is based on the base damage of a given character's weapon. Which is why Varric (with Bianca's base damage at 53) gets +5 fire damage, Aveline (with Fadeshear currently at 13 base damage) gets +1 fire damage, Fenris (with 18 physical damage from Hayder's Razor) gets +2 fire damage (the bonus damage seems to be properly rounded, at least for display purposes), as does Hawke (with 22 fire damage from the Staff of Parthalan).

[skan5]

UsualSuspekt907 wrote...

muzluburz wrote...

Attack speed does not affect the damage elemental weapons end up doing. if you manage x dps unbuffed and then 1.3x dps with an attack speed buff using elemental weapons will bring unbuffed to 1.1dps(depending on mob) or 1.4xdps with the attack speed buff.

Nvm you didnt get it and I dont got time to explain further.

UsualSuspekt OUT

Usual, in your example, if the Elemental Weapons is adding 2 damage, then the base damage is 20 (since EW is +10%).

So at 1 attack per second @ 5 seconds, you do base 100 damage with +10 from EW. This is a 10% increase.
At 2 attacks per second @ 5 seconds, you do base 200 damage with +20 from EW. This is a 10% increase.

From your wording, you're saying that a higher attack speed = more damage from EW. This is actually not entirely true.

Say you only do 5 damage a hit, but attack 4 times in a second. This is an attack speed that is 4 times larger than the first scenario. You'll end up doing 100 base damage (5x4 = 20 in 1 second, x5 seconds), and 110 with EW. This is a 10% increase: 5 x 1.1 = 5.5, which x4 is 22 in 1 second, then times 5 seconds will come to 110.

EW deals more damage with a higher DPS, not a higher attack speed. Additionally, a higher attack speed doesn't necessarily mean higher DPS (1 attack every 5 seconds dealing 250 damage is higher DPS than 2 attacks per second dealing 20 each).

Hope you understand what those two posters are trying to say now.

Modifié par skan5, 28 mars 2011 - 10:00 .

[Amioran]

skan5 wrote...

UsualSuspekt907 wrote...

muzluburz wrote...

Attack speed does not affect the damage elemental weapons end up doing. if you manage x dps unbuffed and then 1.3x dps with an attack speed buff using elemental weapons will bring unbuffed to 1.1dps(depending on mob) or 1.4xdps with the attack speed buff.

Nvm you didnt get it and I dont got time to explain further.

UsualSuspekt OUT

Usual, in your example, if the Elemental Weapons is adding 2 damage, then the base damage is 20 (since EW is +10%).

So at 1 attack per second @ 5 seconds, you do base 100 damage with +10 from EW. This is a 10% increase.
At 2 attacks per second @ 5 seconds, you do base 200 damage with +20 from EW. This is a 10% increase.

From your wording, you're saying that a higher attack speed = more damage from EW. This is actually not entirely true.

Say you only do 5 damage a hit, but attack 4 times in a second. This is an attack speed that is 4 times larger than the first scenario. You'll end up doing 100 base damage (5x4 = 20 in 1 second, x5 seconds), and 110 with EW. This is a 10% increase: 5 x 1.1 = 5.5, which x4 is 22 in 1 second, then times 5 seconds will come to 110.

EW deals more damage with a higher DPS, not a higher attack speed. Additionally, a higher attack speed doesn't necessarily mean higher DPS (1 attack every 5 seconds dealing 250 damage is higher DPS than 2 attacks per second dealing 20 each).

Hope you understand what those two posters are trying to say now.

What you say makes no sense. It doesn't matter if the percentual between the two cases is invaried, the result of the damage is varied, and btw this is why a percentual and not a constant is used, to have a linear increase in damage. The higher the base number, the higher the increase the percentual brings, while in a case of a constant this last remains invaried.

Considering two hits, one of 1000 dmg and the other of 10. 10% of 1000 is 100, 10% of 10 is 1. While both are still 10% of the base damage on the former case the added damage is much higher, in its constant value. DPS is a constant value, not a percentual one. It doesn't matter if the percentual is varied or not, what matters is the actual value of the damage. So, in your first example, for a DPS calculation, what matters is that 20 (in the second) and not 10 (in the first) is added, it doesn't matter if the percentual is the same between the two, what matters is the amount that in the "spike" is added.

So, the DPS, IS increased. Being it a percentual of the base damage, the higher the base damage is, the higher the added value as a result of the percentual becomes, and the higher the DPS becomes.

[skan5]

Amioran wrote...

skan5 wrote...

EW deals more damage with a higher DPS, not a higher attack speed. Additionally, a higher attack speed doesn't necessarily mean higher DPS (1 attack every 5 seconds dealing 250 damage is higher DPS than 2 attacks per second dealing 20 each).

*snip*

So you tell me I make no sense, and then go on to say the same thing I did?

[EvilVonBek]

Ok, they're both right the way they've worded it.
Let's try and put it plainly and see if we all agree.

EW adds 10% to BASE damage of the type of staff equipped.
( So a dagger at say 47 will gain +5, this will also raise DPS by the fact that damage is now +5 per hit and therefore more damage is being done per second )
This is also before Elemental Weaknesses are figured in so you often get more than a +10% boost.

EW will stack with more than one caster sustaining if the casters are using different elemental types
( Fire + nature = + X fire and + X nature, however two fire staffs will only give + X once )

EW adds proc chance of elemental effect as if it was EW/rune from DA:O
( Cold = freeze, electricity = stun, fire = burn DoT, nature = poison DoT, spirit = no DoT/status however spirit damage is resisted at 50% of normal resistance )

TBH I think EW is well worth the sustain cost, if your willing to carry staves you can swap in for a known weakness ( cold makes those dragon fight so easy ), electric procs stun more than you think and that little extra touch of Damage becomes quite considerable and very welcome both endgame and Nightmare. Perfect example is probably the Elemental Archer concept for endgame where you are using Absolution/Jackal and between a rune and a caster throwing another 60 damage per hit onto each hit.

And to be honest, if you've got Black emporium, try it and if you don't like it or don't think it's effective either 1) you're down a point and know in future or 2) if you have BE just bite the 2g cost and makers sigh it.

Hope this helps everyone and also stop the two folk who are both right arguing.

[Graunt]

It depends on whether or not you're also using Anders or Merril.  On Anders specifically I take it just because it's a "filler" point used to get the 50% shield (you don't need the 100% for anything ever) for Nightmare.  It's a very nice bonus passive that does indeed add up, especially when you're using an element that is strong against specific enemies. You can beat the game fine without it, but it makes things much easier, especially while hasted.

[gtox11]

Just another interesting aspect of the elem wep sustain.. It adds a somewhat unusual amount of +damage to shields. On my low lvl Warrior, it is adding +2 to Aveline's 30-ish dps sword, and +5 to her 80-ish armor shield.

[KingGraveRobber1]

Ok I have noticed that elemental weapons seems to add damage equal to 10% of the individual weapons damage, not the staff damage. While elemental weapons is active you can open your inventory and check each weapon being used and the damage increase will show for you. For example the person using the spell has a staff with 40 damage and thus gets +4 elemental damage. But lets say you also have another character with a much stronger weapon like an archer, if the archer has a bow with 100 damage then he would get an additional +10 elemental damage, not +4. but the values round up at each 5 mark (14 rounds down and 15 rounds up, etc) so most end game weapons with an average of high 30's to low 40's in damage all seem to get +4 elemental damage.

I am near end game and bianca has 113 damage and is getting an additional +11 elemental damage from the spell.  I have tested this with other weapons as well, Fades Fury (25 base damage) only gets +3 damage whereas Blade of a Thousand Battles (35 base damage) gets +4, and so on, so it has nothing to do with bianca leveling up with verric.

Another note, and a bit of a strange one that others have noticed too, is that my S&S character gets +4 elemental damage on his sword (35 base damage) and +19 elemental damage on his shield (190 base armor). Not sure if that adds to my damage dealt being on my shield and all but I did notice it.  Another strange note is that if you remove your shield or equip another one while elemental weapons is still active the added damage on the first shield may stay even after it is removed and the spell is deactivated.  My Mage's Friend now seems to have a permanent +27 fire damage.  I have not tested this or toyed with it beyond simply noticing it but there may be a way to add elemental damage of each element to a shield permanently through this glitch.  Perhaps resulting in a Mage's Friend with +27 of each element at once?  But like I said I have not tried it.

So in short each weapon gets elemental damage added to it equal to 10% of its own base damage. And it would seem shields get it to but it is 10% of its base armor (go figure)

Try it yourself, open your inventory and inspect your equipped weapon with elemental weapons turned off then inspect your weapons again with it activated. The additional damage will show up in green just like damage added by runes.

Modifié par KingGraveRobber1, 01 avril 2011 - 09:18 .