60 réponses à ce sujet

[Rehwyn]

So, I've barely started my rogue and was looking ahead at the talents to get an idea what I'll want to build. I'm aware that I can respec, but I'd like to minimize the amount of money I need to spend on this (or is it not something that costs money? Haven't really looked).

Anyways, I was wondering if anyone that has tried a build like what I'm planning has input on it's effectiveness. I'm not entirely sure how many points one can have at end-game, but remember seeing someone mention ~24-28.

DW Line: Backstab, Perforate, Unforgiving Chain, Explosive Strike, Merciless Strike, Twin Fang, Reversed Grip
Assassin: Bloodlust, Mark of Death, Pinpoint Strikes, Devious Harm, Assassinate, Annihilate, Overkill
Subterfuge: Stealth, Silent Running/Evade (not sure which would be more useful), Lingering Shroud
Shadow: Pinpoint Precisioun, Inconspicuous, Decoy, Shadow Veil, Disorienting Criticals, Predator
Scoundrel: Blindside,  Back-to-Back, Invisible Friend

That's 26 points. The general idea of the build is to use Backstab, Twin Fang, and Assassinate as your main damage dealers, with Explosive Strike there for sustained DPS and taking advantage of Stagger. You'll be critting a lot and and for high amounts due to Predator, Pinpoint Strike, Blindside. You also have 4 ways of entering Stealth (Stealth, Decoy, Back-to-Back, Shadow 3% passive chance), all of which also Obscure you. And you Disorient with your crits while you're Obscured, which last for a while after breaking stealth. I doubt Threat is a problem with all the Stealth, but for bosses, Inconspicuous should help for Threat, while Mark of Death helps damage. Pinpoint Strikes helps if you can't flank or are attacked after breaking Stealth because the crits from it will Disorient (if obscured).

If you do get 28 points, I'm not sure exactly where the other 2 would go, but have some ideas. I'm pretty sure Predator works with Backstab, so Murder (100% crit on backstab) isn't needed. Twist the Knife (100% crit against stunned) might be nice, except you'd have to rely entirely on other people to stun. Ambush seems worthless since you'll most likely be breaking stealth from behind anyways and Predator will make it a crit.

Most likely any extra points are best spent upgrading Precision Strikes, Inconspicuous, or Mark of Death.

Thoughts?

Modifié par Rehwyn, 11 mars 2011 - 10:52 .

[StilRH]

Repecs are fairy cheap (about 1-2g) and as far as know, unlimited.

I like the look of your build. I like the shadow tree talents too, my version was a little different - I used sabotage tree for fog to set up more CCC's and as a way of entering obscure mode (wasn't really after stealth). Next rogue I play I shall try your bo out

[Rehwyn]

So, after some testing, I think going into Sabotage for Overpowering Fog is a better way to set up Disorient for cross-class combos. It's a lot easier to carry out, is AoE, and you get some nice CC/utility from the tree as well. The extra points can come from Subterfuge, which I'll likely leave empty.

Perforate (the backstab CD reduction) isn't really that useful either. Backstab doesn't really do much damage compared to other abilities, so I find myself mainly using it to get behind targets quickly instead of for the damage.

[Tomark]

Any reason for not taking Ambush?

i am myself doing a DW shadow rogue, and was thinking of only taking backstab + what i need for merciless strike in the DW tree (basically, i want the stagger CCC).

[ScroguBlitzen]

In Subterfuge: You can't just get Stealth,Silent Running, Lingering Shroud. Silent Running requires 2 points in the tree first, so you you're stuck with Stealth, Evade, Lingering Shroud.

[Seloun]

This was pretty similar to the build I used, though I didn't find the stealth tree to be all that helpful. The main issue with the build is that you will probably eat stamina extremely fast if you try to remain stealthed/obscured constantly. Even with speed and the stamina talent after Back To Back I was only able to really sustain my primary attacks, with a little left over for utility, on most of boss fights.

I do agree that Backstab ends up being mostly a waste, since the white damage you lose from using it basically nullifies any real gain. The primary bonus really is the extra positioning, though the reduced CD talent isn't terrible since Backstab can also be used sometimes as a 'dodge'.

[Rehwyn]

ScroguBlitzen wrote...

In Subterfuge: You can't just get Stealth,Silent Running, Lingering Shroud. Silent Running requires 2 points in the tree first, so you you're stuck with Stealth, Evade, Lingering Shroud.

Yeah, I noticed this the other day, but since I dropped that tree entirely it ended up not mattering.

Right now I've fully upgraded Fatiguing Fog in Sabotage and have Aveline set with Scatter+Disperse with a tactic to use it on Disoriented people. It works amazingly well at cutting through groups, as I simply let them cluster on Aveline, drop the Fog, and then she combos on pretty much everything around her. If stuff doesn't die outright, she did so much damage that there's pretty much no chance of losing aggro. Not to mention I have Merrill set to Stonefist things that are Disoriented

As far as Stamina goes, due to Bloodlust I rarely have problems in skirmishes, but I have found that I sometimes get low during boss fights where there aren't lots of adds. Since I'm getting Blindside in Scoundrel anyways, I might go ahead and grab Back-to-Back for mobility and Follow-Through to help with this. Or just buy/make lots of potions.

[SlamminHams]

I'm not exactly sure on this, but I didn't invest into upgrading Backstab past a point (middle of Act 2 or so). It honestly felt the 3-5 auto attacks I lose for the duration of the animation + the travel time if the mob gets shoved was a net loss in overall damage.

I rarely touch Backstab anymore to be honest. It's mostly for positioning purposes now.

Rehwyn wrote...

As far as Stamina goes, due to Bloodlust I rarely have problems in skirmishes, but I have found that I sometimes get low during boss fights where there aren't lots of adds. Since I'm getting Blindside in Scoundrel anyways, I might go ahead and grab Back-to-Back for mobility and Follow-Through to help with this. Or just buy/make lots of potions.

Stamina regen, for me, has felt only slightly bad on bosses.  It is okay enough for me not to warrant the Back to Back investment, which I feel at that point would be overkill.  I do admittedly have upgraded Haste and I use a fully upgraded Speed.

Modifié par SlamminHams, 14 mars 2011 - 11:30 .

[naughty99]

I would consider putting at least a couple points into Archery to get Disorienting shot.

I started as exclusively a DW rogue, but I found Swarm, a pretty powerful bow and began alternating between ranged and close fighting, even Assassinate is just as powerful using ranged weapons.

[Arkalezth]

So, how would the build look like now? I'm playing a DW Rogue (currently level 10), but didn't use much stealth and bombs, I mostly used talents from the DW tree (so I'll have to change my playstyle), but I might respec. What's the best building order (also, which specialization should be taken first)?

[Zabaniya]

How many points do you get total throughout the game anyways?

[SlamminHams]

Zabaniya wrote...

How many points do you get total throughout the game anyways?

It depends.

I'm currently level 21 with 26 points.  I imagine I'll end the game around 23-25 but I've made sure to do nearly everything.

On average, I'd venture 25 to be a good, generic number to work with.

[MadDjinn]

I'm working with a similar build, but I definitely prefer having evade. Between that and miasmic flask, mobs stand still while Merrill kicks out a tempest. + Fenris coming in.

back-to-back is a good addition if you have to go around a mob to protect a mage. alley fights on staircases have these issues sometimes, so it's quite nice.

In the end, the question is: Do you want a crowd control Assassin/Shadow build, or a boss killer build? You can get most of both, but tend to lose out a bit on both. upgraded Assassinate is generally just fine for most elites/mages, so I went slightly more on CC.

[Rehwyn]

I've settled into a rather nice build now at level 20 and figured I'd share it, since someone asked.

DW: Backstab, Unforgiving Chain, Merciless Strike, Twin Fangs, Reversed Grip
Sab: Miasmic Flask, Improved Formula, Rush, Fatiguing Fog, Impenetrable Fog, Overpowering Fog
Shadow: Pinpoint Precision, Inconspicuous, Decoy, Disorienting Crits, Shadow Veil, Predator
Assassin: Bloodlust, Mark of Death, Pinpoint Strikes, Devious Harm, Assassinate, Annihilate, Overkill
Scoundrel: Blindside

So that's currently 25 points. I've considered dropping Shadow Veil since Decoy and the Shadow passive are now my only stealth, but it's nice having another way of getting it besides my Fog. Having the AoE Disorient is amazing with my Aveline build because I gave her Scatter+Disperse in the S&S tree. Since I set her tactics to use it on Disoriented people and it's a frontal cone, when I use my Fog on a group she's tanking, she cross-class combos *everyone* for quite a bit of damage. I generally run with Merrill too and she's pretty much filled Primal, so she can combo it too with Golem's Fist. Not to mention she can Petrify stuff to make it Brittle... and then my Assassinate hits for >17000 damage (one-shotting Ogres is fun).

I haven't had a problem with stamina in a while either, at least not one easily solved by some potions, so I won't me getting Follow-Through. I'll probably put some remaining points into upgrading Mark of Death to make it more effective on Bosses. Or get Stealth and Evade in Subterfuge for some more CC/Stealth/Escape. I'm actually thinking Lingering Shroud would be detrimental to the build now that I've had time to consider more, since losing Obscure loses the +25% crit damage and Disorient on crit from Shadow, and (assuming the description is right), I'd lose Obscure before losing stealth if I took it. Chameleon's Breath might be another thing to look at for yet another AoE Obscure, but that might be a bit overkill and too much of a Stamina drain on non-attack abilities.

Modifié par Rehwyn, 15 mars 2011 - 08:13 .

[fluorine7]

I'll print out your build and build my rouge with it! Thank you for sharing!

Could you also share your attribute final number? Thanks~~~

[Rehwyn]

Sure, my current attributes with gear are Dex to 41, Cun at 43, Will at 16, Con at 18. Str and Mag at base. I found I needed to put some points into Con occasionally to survive some boss AoE's and Rogues backstabbing me, at least on Hard/Nightmare (with no points in Con, I was instantly killed from full health by a rogue once or twice), and the few points in Will give me enough Stamina to use all my burst talents, some CC, and still be able to escape if needed. From here on out I'll be pumping Cun only and not Dex for the crit damage (since pretty much everything I do crits now and 41 Dex is all you need for the best daggers).

One suggestion - save up your money for this ring in Act 2: http://dragonage.wik...ng_of_the_Twins

It's expensive, but being immune to Knockback makes playing a DW rogue SOOOO much less annoying.

One note, I didn't list my abilities in the order I'd get them. In general, I'd suggest focusing on the DW line first and leave the base point in Stealth you start with, grabbing Miasmic Flask when you can for the stun.. When you hit 7, I'd consider grabbing Pinpoint Precision in Shadow, but not worry about any more Shadow abilities for then. Instead, work toward Fatiguing Fog and its upgrades (if you're using Disorient for combos). Once you have enough for that and 2 spare points in Shadow, I'd respec to drop Stealth for Decoy and fill out Shadow (at least until Predator. Then I'd work on Assassin. Assassin is great, but it's much better later on once you have guaranteed flanking crits and a high crit damage percentage.

On the other hand, if you have no problem with CC and staying alive, go ahead and get Assassin for some higher ability to kill priority targets.

Modifié par Rehwyn, 15 mars 2011 - 08:54 .

[StingingVelvet]

I went Duelist and Assassin and was quite happy with it. The Duelist backstab substitute is much better than normal backstab, it one-shot kills everything that isn't a boss. The Duelist defense bonuses are great too and really allow my rogue to stay in the thick of things longer.

That said my favorite rogue abilities are Rush, which is awesome for crowd control, and anything that boosts crits. 100% crits when an enemy is stunned works great with any stun power like the flask or Fenris' upgraded lyrium explosion thing.

[Arkalezth]

Thanks, I'll experiment with your suggestions. Just a note, you start with Miasmic Flask, not Stealth.

I was using Duelist too, the passives and sustained talents are good, but I'm not sure how much impact they have in survivability. I'll see about it if I respec.

[Rehwyn]

Hmm, I just found another item that has Immunity to Knockback. If you don't mid waiting until Act 3, you get a dagger called Carta's Left-Hand from clearing out the bandit dudes in Lowtown at night. So, if you aren't getting owned too hard by knockback chains, feel free to wait for that (since it's free, and I have yet to find a better dagger to replace it).

EDIT: Also, apparently you need 42 dex for the highest tier daggers it would seem.

Modifié par Rehwyn, 15 mars 2011 - 11:54 .

[LotusPower]

Can you pls say your attributes with out gear

[Tach Prime]

Yes Carta's left hand is very useful to be immune to knock back. There is also a ring in the Emporium that will gives you immune to critical's, and immune to stun. So I would also recommend that to top of the immunities list.

Modifié par Tach Prime, 15 mars 2011 - 10:03 .

[Arkalezth]

I'm nearing the end of Act 2 with my Rogue. I've recently purchased the aforementioned ring, and it makes a big difference indeed. I was going to wait for the dagger, but I figured it would come in useful for the remaining fights of this Act. I recommend buying it ASAP, it will make your life easier for an entire Act, and most of the best items are found anyway.

I'm not using flasks a lot, and I have only put 1 or 2 points into Shadow, but I'm loving the Assassin specialization. I'd maybe take it as my first, both Pinpoint Strike and Assassinate are amazing.

My only concern right now is the tiny health bar. I'm thinking about investing in CON to be a little more though, or even changing Shadow for Duelist. Yes, I'd lose some damage, but with the 40% defense increase I could be very hard to hit in melee. The 100% crit chance when obscured would hurt if you use flasks a lot (not my case, for the moment), but Pinpoint Strike sort of solves that. I'm not a big fan of Stealth in parties, but it might have some use for me, I'll have to take a look.

Note that I'm playing in Hard, maybe flasks are more useful in Nightmare.

[Arkalezth]

Also, what about Speed? Stamina could be a problem (specially if Duelist), but 20% attack speed for 1 talent point seems like a fair trade. Does someone know if it stacks with Haste?

[Arkalezth]

Just noticed there's a cap for defense (80%). I guess that nerfs Duelist somewhat, then.

[evilbob65535]

Rehwyn wrote...

I've settled into a rather nice build now at level 20 and figured I'd share it, since someone asked.

DW: Backstab, Unforgiving Chain, Merciless Strike, Twin Fangs, Reversed Grip
Sab: Miasmic Flask, Improved Formula, Rush, Fatiguing Fog, Impenetrable Fog, Overpowering Fog
Shadow: Pinpoint Precision, Inconspicuous, Decoy, Disorienting Crits, Shadow Veil, Predator
Assassin: Bloodlust, Mark of Death, Pinpoint Strikes, Devious Harm, Assassinate, Annihilate, Overkill
Scoundrel: Blindside

Awesome suggestions and awesome cross-class combo suggestions!  I had a question for you:  since you have Improved Miasmic Flask and Blindside, would you want to go ahead and get Twist the Knife (to capitalize on the stuns)?  Or does Predator + Pinpoint Strikes pretty much handle all of your 100% crit needs?

Also, another general question:  you avoided Lingering Shroud because you worried it would kill your obscured status, but if you're obscured in a fog, wouldn't the obscured status instantly get reapplied as long as you're still in the fog?  Or does Lingering Shroud somehow kill the effect even when you're still in the fog?

Thanks!