I didn't get Twist the Knife because by the time I had some extra points to throw around I was sitting at ~70% crit rate with party buffs and all my damage abilities were 100% crit. The only stuff where I figured that 30% extra crit on normal attacks (when stunned) would matter was bosses, which I could flank for 100% crit and generally are hard to stun anyways.
As for Lingering Shroud, I believe it only removes Obscure if you're both Stealth and Obscure. If you're in the Fog and Stealthed, I'd guess it would just reapply it (which might be interesting if it did, because you could theoretically stay perma-stealthed for the duration if it kept applying it and then removing it when you did something). I rarely found a situation where being able to take an action without breaking stealth was useful though, since I really only used Stealth to drop threat and gain Obscure for Disorient when Fog was on cooldown.
EDIT: Btw, just a fun screenshot to demonstrate the fun that can be had with this build late-game.
Killing enemy commanders in one hit is fun. My record is actually 33k, but sadly I didn't get that captured in a screenshot. XD
For those that are curious, I went ahead and recorded a video of me downing the final boss on hard mode on my rogue. It of course contains spoilers, but if you're interested how playing a DW assassin/shadow looks with a build like mine, it's a good example.
Enjoy! I might go back and record a Nightmare run (I originally intended to), but I kinda got tired of Fenris and Bethany owning me with their AoE because I was trying to avoid pausing. ><
Thanks for the video. My DW rogue had the same appearance, BTW.
A suggestion for future videos (yours or not): activate info messages on screen, to see more clearly what ability is used at each time.
Glad you liked it and thanks for the tip!
One thing I don't like about the video is the fact it caps at 480p. The source video was actually 960x600 (I recorded half-size 1920x1200 because I didn't have the HD space to record it at 1080p ><), which I guess only gets downsized on youtube. I have a bit more HD space now though, so I might re-record it on Nightmare or do a different boss sometime.
Very interesting stuff, I might have to respec when I get home from work and try your build. I've mostly gone all-out DW, all-out Assassin, and now investing in Shadow, the only things I have not taken in DW as the sustained bleed mode, and the 100% crit upgrade to backstab, and the only thing I have not taken in Assassin are the 10s duration bonus to Pinpoint Strikes (I think that's the one, the one that makes all my attacks crit, which I always pop at the same time as Haste) and the damage bonus to Assassinate (yet, I have the upgrade for more Brittle damage however).
The only other tree I've really invested in is the one with Blindside, Back to Back and Follow-Through and I have all those abilities.
I don't really have a lot of utility though, just massive damage which often gets me in trouble (though I can use Decoy or the other Shadow ability to hopefully save me) I am at the end of Act 2 and wish I'd bought that ring at the start of the act, since interrupts and knockbacks sometimes drive me crazy.
I don't even use my own abilities to gain Obscure, I always have Varric in the party and I have upgraded his Bursting Arrow to put down an Obscuring fog, so I use that for the crit bonus and to disorient.
I went Duelist and Assassin and was quite happy with it. The Duelist backstab substitute is much better than normal backstab, it one-shot kills everything that isn't a boss. The Duelist defense bonuses are great too and really allow my rogue to stay in the thick of things longer.
That said my favorite rogue abilities are Rush, which is awesome for crowd control, and anything that boosts crits. 100% crits when an enemy is stunned works great with any stun power like the flask or Fenris' upgraded lyrium explosion thing.
I liked Assassin/Duelist better than Assassin/Shadow. The bonuses to attack/defense, Throw the Gauntlet and Vendetta (perfect backstab which works across the whole battlefield) were so useful. And after a while, noone can hit you anyway.
for nightmare i would advise against Assassin / Duelist: Defense does not work vs abilities and special attacks; something that is exceedingly common on nightmare, damage reduction/fortitude is your only defense against those.
You will need the defensive abilities from shadow to survive nightmare, not getting hit at all trumps getting hit. Damage wise they are equivalent, +50% crit dmg from shadow vs more attack and critical chances from Duelist.
One thing I don't like about the video is the fact it caps at 480p. The source video was actually 960x600 (I recorded half-size 1920x1200 because I didn't have the HD space to record it at 1080p ><), which I guess only gets downsized on youtube. I have a bit more HD space now though, so I might re-record it on Nightmare or do a different boss sometime.
You can just re-encode your video to 1188x720 and re-upload to youtube to cheat it into believing that it's a 720p video.
TG-Nalfen wrote... You can just re-encode your video to 1188x720 and re-upload to youtube to cheat it into believing that it's a 720p video.
True, I might do that in a bit. After you pointed out that +7 attribute rune to me and the fact I was missing attributes due to using the respec potions, I went back redid my build some (and fixed my attributes with a save game editor). Predator is no longer useful... because I have 108% crit chance already, heh. I really did like some of the stuff you did in your build as well.
I've also been debating between Chameleon's Breath and Fatiguing Fog (+ upgrade) for AoE Obscure.
Fatiguing Fog is overall better when upgraded (shorter cooldown, applies the buff whenever you enter it instead of just on use, slows enemies, AoE Disorient), but it requires a 5-6 point investment to gain. Rush and Miasmic Flask *are* nice, but on Nightmare can hit friendly party members, so can be difficult to use properly. Also, Scatter/Disperse friendly party members as well, so using it in combo with the AoE Disorient requires good positioning to pull off without killing party members.
Meanwhile Chameleon's Breath is just a 2 point investment because I'm already getting Evade, Tactical Withdrawl, and Subtelty. Those saved points open up some other options in Specialist for DPS (as you did).
Cameleon Breath hands downs for nightmare; no risk and a lot cheaper to get.
If you're going for massive crits 100 cunning 50 dex is the way to go, if you grab all stat bonuses in the game(means you might loose some companions in the process) you can get that at around lvl 24-25
As for Lingering Shroud, I believe it only removes Obscure if you're both Stealth and Obscure. If you're in the Fog and Stealthed, I'd guess it would just reapply it (which might be interesting if it did, because you could theoretically stay perma-stealthed for the duration if it kept applying it and then removing it when you did something). I rarely found a situation where being able to take an action without breaking stealth was useful though, since I really only used Stealth to drop threat and gain Obscure for Disorient when Fog was on cooldown.
The advantage would be for Ambush - if you got that instead of Predator (especially since you can get Ambush much earlier). Stealth could be used offensively then in order to get a 100% crit chance without messing with positioning. It sounds like your positioning-based system worked at least as well or better, though.
It'd be nice if the fog did keep reapplying obscure, because then you'd have a 100% crit chance from Ambush when you're in the fog (with Lingering Shadows). It may be too much effort to be worth it, however.
I am wondering how your Stamina holds up with this build, I am planning a similar build, the difference being that it de-emphasises obscuring and disorienting (I don't particularly think it's ccc potential is worth it on Nightmare) but I am not sure if I will need Follow-Through or whether the points can be better spent elsewhere.
I was also curious about peoples thoughts on Speed in the Specialist tree and whether a 10%-15% attack speed increase is worth the stamina and skill points.
I am wondering how your Stamina holds up with this build, I am planning a similar build, the difference being that it de-emphasises obscuring and disorienting (I don't particularly think it's ccc potential is worth it on Nightmare) but I am not sure if I will need Follow-Through or whether the points can be better spent elsewhere.
I was also curious about peoples thoughts on Speed in the Specialist tree and whether a 10%-15% attack speed increase is worth the stamina and skill points.
This build is at level 26 with 6 additional ability points from tomes/quest/puzzles.
Final character stats with this build (click to enlarge):
The 100% crit chance is achieved because I have 28% crit chance from gear, 5% from Speed (with Harmony), 10% from Heroic Aura, and 57% from dex. This is also why I stopped at this dexterity value and pumped Cunning solely.
An example of this build in action:
That's a fairly typical example of how an encounter goes with this build. Notice that I didn't even use a Brittle/Assassinate combo on the Pride Demon (and I accidentally cancelled Mark of Death) and it still does rediculously fast.
As you can see, I'm using an upgraded Speed with Harmony bonuses now, but it's just the finishing touches on the build. At lower levels, I'd suggest Precision instead. With the stats and gear I have now, more attack would be overkill, but early on a single point in Precision will help a lot versus bosses. Technically, I have only 91% versus bosses, but +15% attack speed more than compensates for this in terms of damage and faster attacks also means faster stamina regen (and Fell Poison procs). I rarely encounter Stamina problems, but I also have been using Follow-Through. I'll have to do some testing to see if I encounter problems without it.
As for Obscure and Disorient, I did drop the AoE Disorient from Fatiguing Fog to save points and grabbed Chameleon's Breath instead. Obscure is a 50% miss chance, so it can help save you party a significant amount of damage. Disorienting Criticals is nice for CCCs, but the +25% additional crit damage is not something to scoff at (it puts me at +300% crit damage).
EDIT: I'd suggest getting Predator early on, because you won't have 100% crit until really, really late in the game and it is a pretty big damage increase on bosses. Once you have 100% crit, you can just respec out of it.
Regarding my party, give me a bit to grab lunch and I'll post a reply.
I am wondering how your Stamina holds up with this build, I am planning a similar build, the difference being that it de-emphasises obscuring and disorienting (I don't particularly think it's ccc potential is worth it on Nightmare) but I am not sure if I will need Follow-Through or whether the points can be better spent elsewhere.
I was also curious about peoples thoughts on Speed in the Specialist tree and whether a 10%-15% attack speed increase is worth the stamina and skill points.
This build is at level 26 with 6 additional ability points from tomes/quest/puzzles.
Final character stats with this build (click to enlarge):
The 100% crit chance is achieved because I have 28% crit chance from gear, 5% from Speed (with Harmony), 10% from Heroic Aura, and 57% from dex. This is also why I stopped at this dexterity value and pumped Cunning solely.
An example of this build in action:
That's a fairly typical example of how an encounter goes with this build. Notice that I didn't even use a Brittle/Assassinate combo on the Pride Demon (and I accidentally cancelled Mark of Death) and it still does rediculously fast.
As you can see, I'm using an upgraded Speed with Harmony bonuses now, but it's just the finishing touches on the build. At lower levels, I'd suggest Precision instead. With the stats and gear I have now, more attack would be overkill, but early on a single point in Precision will help a lot versus bosses. Technically, I have only 91% versus bosses, but +15% attack speed more than compensates for this in terms of damage and faster attacks also means faster stamina regen (and Fell Poison procs). I rarely encounter Stamina problems, but I also have been using Follow-Through. I'll have to do some testing to see if I encounter problems without it.
As for Obscure and Disorient, I did drop the AoE Disorient from Fatiguing Fog to save points and grabbed Chameleon's Breath instead. Obscure is a 50% miss chance, so it can help save you party a significant amount of damage. Disorienting Criticals is nice for CCCs, but the +25% additional crit damage is not something to scoff at (it puts me at +300% crit damage).
EDIT: I'd suggest getting Predator early on, because you won't have 100% crit until really, really late in the game and it is a pretty big damage increase on bosses. Once you have 100% crit, you can just respec out of it.
Regarding my party, give me a bit to grab lunch and I'll post a reply.
Looks fun! I'll definitely try it out:lol:
Out of curiousity, what items were you using at the end of the game? I know for one you're using the champion armor but the rest I'm not quite sure.
Total cost of that gear is around 435g. I'm not sure how much money I earned over the course of the game, but it was enough for that and all the tomes/elixirs for myself I needed. Using Runes of Prosperity helps, as does buying nothing you don't intent to use at the end of the game (my companions use dropped gear).
Finesse is technically higher DPS for an off-hand because you can add a +6% damage rune, but I prefer knockback immunity. I do, however, swap it with The Low Blade whenever I encounter something immune to nature damage.
I used Armor runes because my Defense is already maxed. The Rune of Valiance (+7 all attributes) is in the gloves because it gives +7 attributes anywhere, but Gloves give the least armor.
And the belt is the best rogue belt in the game. Whether it's worth it or not depends on how much money you have and which other items you are missing.
I don't own the English version, are Runes of Prosperity the ones that make enemies drop more money?
I'm doing a mage run on Nightmare and I'm investing a lot of money in potions, so I don't know how much I'll have for gear. I don't know if this is true for rogue or warrior.
I don't own the English version, are Runes of Prosperity the ones that make enemies drop more money?
I'm doing a mage run on Nightmare and I'm investing a lot of money in potions, so I don't know how much I'll have for gear. I don't know if this is true for rogue or warrior.
Yes, the rune pattern is bought from The Black Emporium, and various tests have shown they stack. The "enemies drop better equipment" stat is harder to test, so I don't know if that's been shown to stack or not.
I did buy potions, but really only had to use them for Act bosses or those few other difficult encounters.
I actually have a lot more potions/poisons than normal in that screenshot because I wanted to stock up to test builds and record videos after beating the game.
Uploaded a new video, went back and killed the final boss on Nightmare as I intended to do in my original video.
I'd highly recommend that anyone playing a DW Rogue on Nightmare gets Bodyguard (and the upgrade) on Aveline. There are at least 3 points during the fight where I'd have died if not for it.
Hey Rehwyn, how did you make enough gold to buy those rings, amulet, and belt? I'm so jealous lol
I'm pretty sure I did every single quest or puzzle in the game. I only bought armor upgrades for the companions I intended to use at the end of the game, tomes/elixirs for myself, and some potions/quest items as needed. I also didn't buy a single weapon or armor I didn't intend to use for the rest of the game.
All of The Black Emporium items stay available in later Acts, so you can wait to get them until Act 3. Puzzle Ring of the Black Fox was the only item I got in Act 2, if I remember right. Originally I had purchased Etched Ring of the Twins instead, but then Carta's Left Hand dropped soon after I started Act 3, so I went back to an older save from before I bought it and got the Puzzle Ring instead (which I believe is gone in Act 3, but might be mistaken).
Using multiple Runes of Fortune helps some too to increase the money enemies drop. They stack (at least up to 4) so having multiple can increase what you get. The "enemies drop better equipment" stat also helps, but it doesn't stack.
A few of those items I didn't get until right before the end either, when I took all the gear I wasn't using (or using as a backup for elemental immunes) and sold it all.
In some of those screenshots/videos, I have more potions and money than I did when I actually finished the game, because after beating it the first time I loaded an older save before I sold all that stuff. I wanted to test a lot of items and builds I didn't get the first time (such as The Maker's Kiss, Absolution, etc), but there's not enough legit money in the game to do that without constantly saving. reloading, and replaying. So, for the purposes of experimentation and knowing what to get on future playthroughs, I used the console to get enough money to test pretty much every item.
Though as I said, I didn't do that until after beating the first time, with the gear shown. It was very, very close but is possible. I forget how much cash I had left over, but it wasn't much, heh.
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