61 réponses à ce sujet

[LittleDoggie]

Hey,

   So I'm a fairly older fellow, been playing comp games since well ... the beginning. Played everything youve ever done and have always enjoyed the experience.

   All I have to say is that you need to seriously consider your story writing ... Up to now its been great. But I dont know whats happend ... You seem to have hired some pretty sadistic folks for this last game. And I dont say this lightly.

  There are story arcs where your entire family gets killed, ok fine. But then when you add that your mom gets killed by a serial killer who cuts her head off and sews it to some frankensteinlike creation. Of what redeeming value was that.

My mage friend kills a innocent little girl ... seriously?

After a fair amount of shock I continue playing cause well I like your games. I figure Ill make Merrill my girlfriend to bring back some family kind of feel. This works out ok for a bit .... but now she wants to get the mirror working and so I go figuring either she will or she will get possesed .... sad ... but it was her choice. Also maybe she really will help the mages and her people. Something to fight for.

But wait .... that nice older lady (the keeper) tries to save her so she gets killed (by the one she tried to save). To top that off ... all the dalish are pissed and attack us so they all die. A complete village of innocent nobel people? Dead. So now who is Merrill trying to help? The biggest reason for being somewhat ok with her obsession ... All dead.

What has happend with you guys ... some really morbid and sadistic stuff.

Whats left to be a champion of? Its like every time I find some reason of value to fight. You find some way of killing it off. Did anyone with any sence at all read the full script.

In every other game you guys have made there was some valuable reason to fight, yes tradgedy could happen but there was always some reason to push on. It seems like in this game ... whoever was in charge of the story  ... made it their purpose to "remove all hope".

I'm really very amazed /// quite astonished actually.

This has to be the most depressing story I've ever seen in a game.

LD

Modifié par LittleDoggie, 11 mars 2011 - 10:58 .

[log1x_dr4g0n]

Nothing is ever a Disney-themed story...

[maselphie]

It's the 2nd of what will probably be a trilogy. They'll use the "second is always the darkest" excuse.

But I don't think it's an excuse that's needed. It was a REAL story that hit home. Thedas was never about unicorns or fairies. It was about elven slavery and corrupt kings.

I really don't think I would have liked this game (as much) if it was just a light hearted fantasy romp.

[Gerudan]

It's supposed to be DARK Fantasy.  

[Steel Hurtin]

If you kill everything/one in the game, you get to gallop into the sunset on a rainbow unicorn.

[igot99problems]

If that pissed you off, wait until the end of the game where everyone dies (both sides) and Loveable sarcastic Anders becomes a psychopathic terrorist and kills hundreds.

I'm with you though, few games have ever tested my morals as much as this game. I've always found it really hard to play a douche, and always go out of my way to be nice to everyone. Thats just how I rollplay... but this game, it seemed like no matter what I did, the ending was horribly morbid. Which on one level works, sure not everything has a happy ending, but man... this was the darkest game i've ever played.

[The Minority]

You can save the girl...

[LittleDoggie]

log1x_dr4g0n wrote...

Nothing is ever a Disney-themed story...

Were not talking the other side of disney here.

[StowyMcStowstow]

LittleDoggie wrote...

Hey,

   So I'm a fairly older fellow, been playing comp games since well ... the beginning. Played everything youve ever done and have always enjoyed the experience.

   All I have to say is that you need to seriously consider your story writing ... Up to now its been great. But I dont know whats happend ... You seem to have hired some pretty sadistic folks for this last game. And I dont say this lightly.

  There are story arcs where your entire family gets killed, ok fine. But then when you add that your mom gets killed by a serial killer who cuts her head off and sews it to some frankensteinlike creation. Of what redeeming value was that.

My mage friend kills a innocent little girl ... seriously?

After a fair amount of shock I continue playing cause well I like your games. I figure Ill make Merrill my girlfriend to bring back some family kind of feel. This works out ok for a bit .... but now she wants to get the mirror working and so I go figuring either she will or she will get possesed .... sad ... but it was her choice. Also maybe she really will help the mages and her people. Something to fight for.

But wait .... that nice older lady (the keeper) tries to save her so she gets killed (by the one she tried to save). To top that off ... all the dalish are pissed and attack us so they all die. A complete village of innocent nobel people? Dead. So now who is Merrill trying to help? The biggest reason for being somewhat ok with her obsession ... All dead.

What has happend with you guys ... some really morbid and sadistic stuff.

Whats left to be a champion of? Its like every time I find some reason of value to fight. You find some way of killing it off. Did anyone with any sence at all read the full script.

In every other game you guys have made there was some valuable reason to fight, yes tradgedy could happen but there was always some reason to push on. It seems like in this game ... whoever was in charge of the story  ... made it their purpose to "remove all hope".

I'm really very amazed /// quite astonished actually.

This has to be the most depressing story I've ever seen in a game.

LD

You don't have to fight the entire village of Dalish. I did twice, and the first time I died, the second time I killed everyone, bu the game froze. The third time I chose the bottom option about taking responsibility for it, and I got out with nary a scratch. 

[MR445]

I agree with you, there's no feel to the title of champion by the end of the game. You just kill a bunch of people for no reason.

I could buy some of the weaker story elements, but what Anders did made no sense whatsoever, from any angle. Bombing the Chantry and killing possibly the only person in power who is somewhat sympathetic to the plight of mages... Seriously? What did that accomplish? Every cutscene she was in showed that she was a just individual and truly cared for all the people of Kirkwall.

But it sets up a story arc for the next game that we will end up buying so all is well.

[LittleDoggie]

maselphie wrote...

It's the 2nd of what will probably be a trilogy. They'll use the "second is always the darkest" excuse.

But I don't think it's an excuse that's needed. It was a REAL story that hit home. Thedas was never about unicorns or fairies. It was about elven slavery and corrupt kings.

I really don't think I would have liked this game (as much) if it was just a light hearted fantasy romp.

I'm not talking about light hearted vs tragic. I'm saying at the very least morbid and for no reason.

Little children being killed? Mom the vic. of a dismembering serial killer? An entire village of people being killed "by your team?" After a series of events that would leave Merrill on the verge of suicide? And nothing you can do to stop it.

The fact that the little girl can be killed by one of your team at all was just plain stupid.

[Merci357]

While I agree, it's a dark story, two of your examples aren't right, OP. Neither the girl nor the dalish have to die.
Doesn't change that Anders is a terrorist killing the only person in power with a reasonable mind or that all introduced factions are dead at the end of the game, though. And no resolution, no answers, not even clues about many open questions regarding the greater picture are in sight.

[LittleDoggie]

Merci357 wrote...

While I agree, it's a dark story, two of your examples aren't right, OP. Neither the girl nor the dalish have to die.
Doesn't change that Anders is a terrorist killing the only person in power with a reasonable mind or that all introduced factions are dead at the end of the game, though. And no resolution, no answers, not even clues about many open questions regarding the greater picture are in sight.

Indeed ... yes you can save the girl ... but do you even know in advance or would have any reason to suspect that could happen? So you reload a save. That she can be killed at all by one of your team was unnecessary.

To save the dailish you have to lie and have a reason to expect that you should ....  It wasn't your responsibility that the keeper did what she did. The only reasonable answer was to tell them she was possessed. So even in those two cases .... it makes no sence.

Mindless slaughter ... all from the mind of bioware new story writers. A concerted push towards the depressing.

Modifié par LittleDoggie, 11 mars 2011 - 11:33 .

[schalafi]

Well the devs did say it would be *dark*, but they didn't say it would be completely *black*. I found nothing to be happy about at the end of this game, and I've been a Bioware game fan since BG1.Out of all their games, this was the most depressing one I've ever played. I was really sad, when in Jade Empire they killed Zu, but I never thought that they would do that to Anders, who was the best npc in Awakening, and was really getting everyone who liked him excited about him being in DA2.

I've always thought the Bioware writers were superior to any other game writers, but something is happening in their games lately. It seems that darker, more violent, and less humor and heroism is the way they are trending. I hope this trend doesn't continue into the third of the trilogy, or I won't be looking forward to any more Bioware games.

[MrStorm2K]

Dark is not bad. The world they're depicting in Kirkwall is a desolate, depressing, gloomy place. The muddled state of being they're all in is a continuous theme. If you don't like dark stories, yeah, I could understand why you personally don't like the game. But saying the game is "too depressing" is not a valid criticism.

Modifié par MrStorm2K, 12 mars 2011 - 12:08 .

[Der Kirk]

LittleDoggie wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

While I agree, it's a dark story, two of your examples aren't right, OP. Neither the girl nor the dalish have to die.
Doesn't change that Anders is a terrorist killing the only person in power with a reasonable mind or that all introduced factions are dead at the end of the game, though. And no resolution, no answers, not even clues about many open questions regarding the greater picture are in sight.

Indeed ... yes you can save the girl ... but do you even know in advance or would have any reason to suspect that could happen? So you reload a save. That she can be killed at all by one of your team was unnecessary.

To save the dailish you have to lie and have a reason to expect that you should ....  It wasn't your responsibility that the keeper did what she did. The only reasonable answer was to tell them she was possessed. So even in those two cases .... it makes no sence.

Mindless slaughter ... all from the mind of bioware new story writers. A concerted push towards the depressing.

Her death isn't Mindless, and neither is murder of Hawke's mother. Both events are included to balance out the evil things you see the templas do. It is done to make picking between the mages and the templars harder. Nobody wants to wipe out the entire circle of mages, innocent and all, but any one of theose mages could go crazy. (like anders or the serial killer) Most of the events you are unhappy with strengthen the intensity of later decisions, making them much tougher for the players to make. That is a good thing, not a bad one.

[cainx10a]

I commend BioWare for this type of story telling, I will let JRPGs keep the happy, cute and fluffy characters. BioWare games are proof of the value that game can be a more powerful medium than books and movies to tell a story ... as the camera panned on the neck of Hawke's mother, I already felt my stomach churn, and the maelstrom of emotion from sadness to rage was the turning point in how I viewed mages (which my Hawke was proud to be).

That's story telling, not some, "oh look at the generic bad guy beating on the weak farmer, help him, or join in the fun".

However, I agree that the Dalish slaughter should have been stopped somehow, and I truly believe the quest is bugged, and that the Keeper can either be saved or doomed.

[cainx10a]

// Sorry for le double post 

Modifié par cainx10a, 12 mars 2011 - 01:16 .

[schalafi]

I play games for enjoyment, not to be dragged into depression, and no, Im not looking for skipping fairies, and fuzzy bunnies in a game, just some balance. When everyone dies, there's no balance, and no sense to the game, imo. Also, there was really no lesson to be taken from the game, to me it was just depressing chaos, with npc's that I had been friends with dying. I take games seriously, even though I know it's just another kind of fiction, but this one really disappointed me. I have a very protective attitude towards my npcs.

Modifié par schalafi, 12 mars 2011 - 12:24 .

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Well, first of all... you obviously made the wrong choice if you had to kill the Dalish. In my playthrough I convinced them that the Keeper made her own choice, and dying wth her would not serve the Dalish people.

Second, Anders isn't Anders... He's a mage possessed by a spirit of Vengence, warped by Anders hatred of the Circle and Templars into a DEMON of Vengeance.  Normally, "Vengeance" wouldn't be a demon type ,but if you played Awakening and listened to Justice and Nathaniel's party banter, It's obvious that Justice could turn into a demon.

As for the mother thing, it's the legacy of the Harvester research.  The Dragon Age world is suffering an apocalyse, basically.

[maxbarton]

Many of the "dark" themes in DA2 seem forced. DAO had a much darker story to me. The betrayal of the king at the beginning and Duncan dying were amazing moments in storytelling. The "dark" elements seemed redundant in DA2. After I lost Carver in the Deep Roads I just stopped caring about my party members or NPCs because I knew the game was going toward the "everything sucks and your choices mean nothing" ending. Which considering how the game plays out... I don't think I was far off.

Basically there's making a game with dark themes and making a game where everything sucks(not gameplay but plot-wise). It's like watching a movie where everyone dies by the end. It leaves you either irritated that you sat through it or angry that all the people you got attached to die no matter what they did. If Bioware was going for the latter, then congrats, that's how I felt.

The happiest moment for me after playing the game was the thought that my Hawke sailed off with Isabella to some place far away from crappy Kirkwall.

Modifié par maxbarton, 12 mars 2011 - 12:48 .

[LittleDoggie]

After much thought ... I deleted DA2.

Thx for the thoughtful responses ... hopefully ME3 will be a better experience.

One last thought, in Halo Reach (just as a passing example) everyone dies, but at all times you were fighting for something of value. Sad yes, morbid and depressing no.

Peace Out,

LD

Modifié par LittleDoggie, 12 mars 2011 - 01:04 .

[maxbarton]

Nope Jun makes it. Bloody jerk runs away with Hasley.


Admittedly there are some stories out there that can carry the torch in that respect, but DA2 didn't do that for me.

[Kithrus]

Part of what makes this a great game is that it presents a story like the innocent murderer.

I'll explain:

Back in the 1800s there was a ship hand who when unfairly prevoked. He struck the man on the head with the intent to send him packing. The blow landed to well and to make matter worse the man he struck was an officer and died.

The captain belived that the ship hand didn't intend to kill anyone and understood he was provoked quite nastily however the captain knew he had to maintain order and the law at the time was kill an officer you die.

Sound the same as a number of parts in the game?

Sometimes man makes laws that force our hand not in evil ways but make it so the only way they change is war. Anders knew that, he was wrong but there was no other way to stop an unstopable force then to respond in kind.

Otherwise people would have pissed around for years and just as many people died and nothing would have been gained.

[syn010110]

I tried for so long to avoid deciding between crazy mages and crazy templars, but Anders forced my choice. I sided with the mages out of respect for Bethany and because my Hawke was in love with Merrill...

... and I needed Anders as a healer. THAT pissed me off more than anything else in this game. I wanted to kill Anders dead after he blew up the Chantry, but I couldn't because I would have had no healer!

(My Hawke was a rogue.)