903 réponses à ce sujet

[xkg]

Raice wrote...
Frankly, the only things I have seen people throw up (besides the recycled rooms) as to why DA2 is such a bad game are what I like to call "Non-Issues".  Essentially, theses are tiny things that people blow way out of proportion to complain about, not because their complaints are necessarily valid, but because they just like to complain about anything.

Ahhh, so people complains are not valid because these are non-issues FOR YOU ?
What a great reasoning. I applaud you.

Raice wrote...
DA2 is the suprior game in just about all aspects.

May i continue? DA2 has superior critics scores all around, has superior user scores everywhere, has superior sales ... wait, there is something wrong here.

[csfteeeer]

^^^^

LOL

[erynnar]

Playing DAO again. And it is the better game. There is no way that DA2, as it stands, is even in the same league. All the wishing and supposition in the world--what if it weren't called DA2, what if it had more dev time, what if., what if, what if.... sadly there are no more what ifs for this sequel.

I don't even mind the slower combat, which surprised me (mage animations I do miss). DA2 felt like a chore (sorry, I know that sounds mean, but it did). *cringes* DAO is like a favorite book that I can re-read over and over until the binding falls off.

[erynnar]

xkg wrote...

Raice wrote...
Frankly, the only things I have seen people throw up (besides the recycled rooms) as to why DA2 is such a bad game are what I like to call "Non-Issues".  Essentially, theses are tiny things that people blow way out of proportion to complain about, not because their complaints are necessarily valid, but because they just like to complain about anything.

Ahhh, so people complains are not valid because these are non-issues FOR YOU ?
What a great reasoning. I applaud you.

Raice wrote...
DA2 is the suprior game in just about all aspects.

May i continue? DA2 has superior critics scores all around, has superior user scores everywhere, has superior sales ... wait, there is something wrong here.

Okay I know I shouldn't...but I had to giggle at this^.

[Jane Shepard]

I think both games are good. But Origins I love more than DA2 for some reasons. It is bigger and there are more locations than it DA2. Two main things are the story and the game atmosphere. When I play Origins, Awakening and three other DLC I have a feeling that something should happen very soon.
In DA2 the same feeling I had only three times (at the beginning and before two main battles). Most of the time I spent just running around, doing errands and fighting in the same locations.
So in my oppinion DA Origins is more interesting.

Modifié par Jane Shepard, 28 juin 2011 - 06:34 .

[Raice]

xkg wrote...

Raice wrote...
Frankly, the only things I have seen people throw up (besides the recycled rooms) as to why DA2 is such a bad game are what I like to call "Non-Issues".  Essentially, theses are tiny things that people blow way out of proportion to complain about, not because their complaints are necessarily valid, but because they just like to complain about anything.

Ahhh, so people complains are not valid because these are non-issues FOR YOU ?
What a great reasoning. I applaud you.

Raice wrote...
DA2 is the suprior game in just about all aspects.

May i continue? DA2 has superior critics scores all around, has superior user scores everywhere, has superior sales ... wait, there is something wrong here.

Now wait a minute - you're putting words in my mouth.  I didn't say the complaints weren't valid - I said that the complaints weren't necessarily valid, just as they aren't unnecessarily valid.  The fact that they are valid or invalid is irrelevant to the fact that the complaints are non-issues.

Characters can't change armor?  Why is this even important on a gameplay scale?  Does the fact that Varric wears the same clothes (that periodically have minor cosmetic upgrades) throughout the entire game, change the fact that DAO played like a cement truck on ice?  No - it doesn't.  Non-issue.  I must have played a million RPG's growing up where this sort of thing was never an issue.  The main character (MY character) can look anyway I want him too.  That's good enough.

No tactical camera?  Seriously?  Suddenly the game is "not tactical" simply because the camera doesn't pan up far enough?  Tactical gameplay is defined by implementing steps one must take to victory - not by having a bird's eye view.  I'm not saying it's not nice to have - but it certainly isn't gamebreaking.  Did not having a bird's eye view in DA2 change the fact that DAO only had one class that was actually useful?  No - it doesn't.  Non-issue.  This isn't D&D; Warhammer - you don't have to limit yourself to that sort of "minature mindset".

DAO is so much better because DA2 is way too much like Mass Effect 2?  Oh - snap!  Guess what?  ME2 rated a higher score that either one of those games!  And since DA2 is a lot like ME2 (evidently), but somehow people don't like DA2.... then I guess that means maybe people are just blowing a bunch of stupid crap out of proportion - complaining about non-issues.


The only major complaints anyone has with DA2 in any of the official critic reviews, is the fact that the game recycles too many of the same areas and that the scope of the story seems to be somewhat lackluster.... since it's not "EPIC!" like every other RPG in existence.  I wholeheartedly agree witth he first issue, and I'm kind of thinking maybe the story element is another non-issue complaint too.  Did the story ever have really awesome villains?  Yes.  Were there any notable boss fights that were challenging?  Yes.  Did the MC go through your typical heroic changing arc?  Yes.  Was there an interesting supporting cast?  Yes - probably some of the best characters Bioware has ever produced.  What's the problem here?

The problem is that you did a lot of the really awesome stuff in places you had explored and been to a million times over.  That's it.  That's what made the story "meh".  Which leads me back to my point - the recycled areas is the only real complaint with any substance to it.  The other complaints are just non-issues spouted by purists and elitists who can't let go of Baldur's Gate long enough to realise there are newer, better ways to make a party based tactical RPG.  DA2 got really close... it's just a shame that the recycled areas nearly killed the whole thing.

[Cutlasskiwi]

erynnar wrote...

Playing DAO again. And it is the better game. There is no way that DA2, as it stands, is even in the same league. All the wishing and supposition in the world--what if it weren't called DA2, what if it had more dev time, what if., what if, what if.... sadly there are no more what ifs for this sequel.

I don't even mind the slower combat, which surprised me (mage animations I do miss). DA2 felt like a chore (sorry, I know that sounds mean, but it did). *cringes* DAO is like a favorite book that I can re-read over and over until the binding falls off.

That's how I describe DAO. It felt like a chore to get through. I wanted to like that game so much especially when they said it was the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. For me it just fell flat and was all to sugary sweet (all from characters to the story), so what it comes down to is if you buy the hook for the game. I liked it up to the point where the game assumes that you want to be a warden after that it all became a case of 'well, this is not what my character would say or do but the plot needs to more forward.    

There's just so many things that works for me in DA2 that didn't in DAO so for me the former is the better game.

[ref]

Just played through Origins again for the 4th time, still love it and still always immersed in the world. Never want to skip anything/text (besides the Fade, I'm sorry, but once is enough =P "Skip The Fade" best mod ever =). I wanted DA2 to end near the end of Act 3 on MY FIRST PLAYTHROUGH, I just wanted to finish it, I was getting so frustrated with all the problems (shocker!, the reused environments) and the story was just so unappealing, ugh. Talk about disappointment... The fact Dragon Age Origins is still entertaining to me and still immerses me as much as it did my first play-through is probably the most obvious reason why to me, Origins is a better game BY FAR. I of course have all sorts of issues with DA2 that everyone else has mentioned, but not gonna get into those...

[astreqwerty]

da 2 had the most promising stroyline in the history of games imho...but the abysmal development time given to it resulted in the monstrosity da2 is

origins all the way

[xkg]

Raice wrote...

xkg wrote...

Raice wrote...
Frankly, the only things I have seen people throw up (besides the recycled rooms) as to why DA2 is such a bad game are what I like to call "Non-Issues".  Essentially, theses are tiny things that people blow way out of proportion to complain about, not because their complaints are necessarily valid, but because they just like to complain about anything.

Ahhh, so people complains are not valid because these are non-issues FOR YOU ?
What a great reasoning. I applaud you.

Raice wrote...
DA2 is the suprior game in just about all aspects.

May i continue? DA2 has superior critics scores all around, has superior user scores everywhere, has superior sales ... wait, there is something wrong here.

Now wait a minute - you're putting words in my mouth.  I didn't say the complaints weren't valid - I said that the complaints weren't necessarily valid, just as they aren't unnecessarily valid.  The fact that they are valid or invalid is irrelevant to the fact that the complaints are non-issues.

Again your post is full of OPINIONS and that ^^^^ isn't any FACT it is again your opinion because these things are MAJOR ISSUES for me and for others (many many others).

So please, please stop telling me if they are issues or they are not.

But if you want to talk about the facts i gave you a few already so you may comment on them if you want:
1. Had much worse critical reception.
2. Much worse user scores everywhere.
3. Sales - well not even in the same league.

If all you want is to give your opinion then no problem - do so but stop using "The Fact" word bacuse you're not giving any.

Modifié par xkg, 28 juin 2011 - 11:25 .

[deatharmonic]

^^ Agreed, DA:O is critically acclaimed that's a fact that can't be taken away. It also has over 50 awards too. Who needs to argue when there are facts like these?

[AloraKast]

For me, DA:O is a waaay better experience than DA2, which left a great deal to be desired.

In addition to all those elements that have been mentioned gazillion of times (i.e. reused maps, fedex quests with GPS, lack of any real choice and don't even get me started on the limited companion interaction and low quality of relationship development between my character and my companions... pretty much a great deal of lack of immersion), I will say that the combat was NOT an improvement in DA2 for me.

Just because it was faster doesn't mean it was better. What it ended up as was too fast and just there to be flashy, other than that, it was a bit pointless... not to mention the fact that my character simply refused to carry out the actions I wanted (like, oh, I don't know, drink a health potion or whatnot), because he just so happened to be right smack in the middle of his flashy and rather useless twirling routine, so guess what. No health potion for me, gotta wait until the same ole repetative and useless twirling dance is over before I can carry out an action that actually makes sense.

Because of all of these elements combined (plus I think the lack of any real variation is the main driving force behind this - no matter what class you played and no matter what kind of character you played, lawfully good or chaotic evil and everything in between - there really wasn't a great deal of variation, aside from a line here or there), I find the replayability of DA2 for me is rather low. I mean, I couldn't even force myself to finish my second playthrough because I very quickly discovered that no matter what my "choices" might be, the game experience was almost identical to my first playthrough. That lack of any real choice and the game forcing me as a player along this same ole narrow path is what really put me off DA2. Who knows, maybe in a year or two I'll have forgotten the specifics of my first playthrough and will be able to try another playthrough. But until such time, the many possibilities of DA:O and wonderful immersion that that game offers (including rich companion relationships that I can discover and pace when I want, not when my companions dictate, in a rather limited way, might I add) will definitely be my very first choice when wanting to plunge into the world of Thedas.

[Hatchetman77]

Raice wrote...

xkg wrote...

Raice wrote...
Frankly, the only things I have seen people throw up (besides the recycled rooms) as to why DA2 is such a bad game are what I like to call "Non-Issues".  Essentially, theses are tiny things that people blow way out of proportion to complain about, not because their complaints are necessarily valid, but because they just like to complain about anything.

Ahhh, so people complains are not valid because these are non-issues FOR YOU ?
What a great reasoning. I applaud you.

Raice wrote...
DA2 is the suprior game in just about all aspects.

May i continue? DA2 has superior critics scores all around, has superior user scores everywhere, has superior sales ... wait, there is something wrong here.

Now wait a minute - you're putting words in my mouth.  I didn't say the complaints weren't valid - I said that the complaints weren't necessarily valid, just as they aren't unnecessarily valid.  The fact that they are valid or invalid is irrelevant to the fact that the complaints are non-issues.

Characters can't change armor?  Why is this even important on a gameplay scale?  Does the fact that Varric wears the same clothes (that periodically have minor cosmetic upgrades) throughout the entire game, change the fact that DAO played like a cement truck on ice?  No - it doesn't.  Non-issue.  I must have played a million RPG's growing up where this sort of thing was never an issue.  The main character (MY character) can look anyway I want him too.  That's good enough.

No tactical camera?  Seriously?  Suddenly the game is "not tactical" simply because the camera doesn't pan up far enough?  Tactical gameplay is defined by implementing steps one must take to victory - not by having a bird's eye view.  I'm not saying it's not nice to have - but it certainly isn't gamebreaking.  Did not having a bird's eye view in DA2 change the fact that DAO only had one class that was actually useful?  No - it doesn't.  Non-issue.  This isn't D&D; Warhammer - you don't have to limit yourself to that sort of "minature mindset".

DAO is so much better because DA2 is way too much like Mass Effect 2?  Oh - snap!  Guess what?  ME2 rated a higher score that either one of those games!  And since DA2 is a lot like ME2 (evidently), but somehow people don't like DA2.... then I guess that means maybe people are just blowing a bunch of stupid crap out of proportion - complaining about non-issues.


The only major complaints anyone has with DA2 in any of the official critic reviews, is the fact that the game recycles too many of the same areas and that the scope of the story seems to be somewhat lackluster.... since it's not "EPIC!" like every other RPG in existence.  I wholeheartedly agree witth he first issue, and I'm kind of thinking maybe the story element is another non-issue complaint too.  Did the story ever have really awesome villains?  Yes.  Were there any notable boss fights that were challenging?  Yes.  Did the MC go through your typical heroic changing arc?  Yes.  Was there an interesting supporting cast?  Yes - probably some of the best characters Bioware has ever produced.  What's the problem here?

The problem is that you did a lot of the really awesome stuff in places you had explored and been to a million times over.  That's it.  That's what made the story "meh".  Which leads me back to my point - the recycled areas is the only real complaint with any substance to it.  The other complaints are just non-issues spouted by purists and elitists who can't let go of Baldur's Gate long enough to realise there are newer, better ways to make a party based tactical RPG.  DA2 got really close... it's just a shame that the recycled areas nearly killed the whole thing.

So what I'm getting is that you regard any issue not related to bashing your finger on a button to be a non issue?

[Lookupatme]

 Dragon age Origins is by far the better game on pratically every conceivable measure.

• DAO has a better and more involved storyline and the sidequests are more enjoyable.
•  The game has a greater replay value due to all the different story strands and initial character origin quests, there is also a ton of DLC which DA2 doesn't have.
• The characters are better developed in  DAO and they interact with each other more effectively. The only truely memmorable characters in DA2 for me are Isabela and Varric; whereas in DAO I especially liked :Morrigan, Leliana, Sten, Alistair and Oghren.
• Romances in DA2 are not a patch on DAO.
• Conversation options have been dumbed down.
• DAO has multiple locations,maps and cities to explore in DA2 everything is confined to the one city KIrkwall and the maps are continually spammed.
• Combat has junked out on amphetamaine sulphate. Too much leaping and jumping about,very hack and slash. The more strategic combat which I prefered has been chucked out of the window.
• Enemies appearing out of thin air is a stupid notion.
• Enemies constantly exploding into buckets of gore is too mangaesque.In DAO you would sometimes get some neat decapitations, which were at least more realistic looking.
• DAO has the better and more varied abilities,talents and spells. The spell effects look better and more realistic in combat  aswell I don't like the ability tree format.
• Herbs,poisons and grenades have been simplified to their detriment.
• The lack of customisation of characters armour and equipment is a big miss. Once again simplified for the casual gamer.
• Some of the monster appearance changes have taken a step back the Darkspawn just look less menacing and pure ugly to look at, with no differentiation between Hurlocks and Genlocks. The Qunari looked better without horns.
• The Codex,Journal and Character info has been once again simplified. In DAO interesting info like most powerful foe slain by each character was available to view.
• Trash - I don't want to be collecting and selling it.
• Restrictions on healing spells meaning you can't cast straight after offensive spells without activating a sustained mode.This is a pain in the arse to put it bluntly.
• I think I've pretty much summed it up  despite just slagging DA2 big time I actually enjoyed the game to a certain extent, but to me it doesn't hold a candle to DAO and the way in which core fans have been abandoned in order to attract the casual gamer that lacks the patience to deal with the intricacies and customisation of rpgs is a really poor show.

[westiex9]

I wanted to like dragon age 2 but it is just not a patch on origins. the combat plays like dynasty warriors on steroids and the areas are rehashed to the point where i am begining to wonder if the dungeon walls are made of spam!

The game just doesn't feel like a worthy sequel to a game as deep and varied as Origins, the storyline in the first game was so complex and non-linear that you really felt like you were deciding how things went. with Dragon age you are basically given a much more condensed plot which boils down to 2 possible endings.

I always end up feeling like an unhappy parent when it comes to DA2 im not mad...im dissapointed

Heres to hoping DA3 gets a development cycle longer then 19 months...im thinking Dragon Age:Apologies....where we find out Hawke and the entire plot of number 2 was just the hero of Ferelden and Oghren's drunken fantasy after sampling a fine can of Orzammar paint thinner....a Warden can but dream.....

Modifié par westiex9, 28 juin 2011 - 03:56 .

[In Exile]

[quote]Lookupatme wrote... [/quote]

I apologize for picking on you, but your post does a great job of showing why praise for DA:O gave us the failed game that is DA2.

[quote]DAO has a better and more involved storyline and the sidequests are more enjoyable.[/quote]

DA2 and DA:O have the same involvement for the protagonist in the story. At the start of the game, there is a "But Thou Must!" (Become a Grey Warden/Go to Kirkwall); your actual plan of attack is set for you (Collect These Armies Using These Treaties; Finish These Quests for Bartrand to Leave); the story is set in motion by everyone but you (Bhelen, Uldred, Loghain, Duncan, Flemeth; Anders, Aveline, Varric, Bartrand, Meredith, Orisono) and in the end you get a lot of praise dispite doing nothing more than killing things (Hero of Ferelden/Champion of Kirkwall).

Even worse, the disjointed story design in DA:O is the same as the disjointed Acts in DA2. For reference, see my posts on previous pages.

[quote]The game has a greater replay value due to all the different story strands and initial character origin quests, there is also a ton of DLC which DA2 doesn't have.[/quote]

So all it takes for a game to be replayable is character content that provides largely identical outcomes except for cosmetic differences? If only DA2 didn't have largely cosmetic differences to their choices...

The praise the origins got for their recycled content and narrow and superificial design (it's the way it changes the mindset of my character that matters!) is exactly what let do the no-difference outcomes of choice in DA2.

[quote]Romances in DA2 are not a patch on DAO.[/quote]

I have no idea what you're talking about here, but romances are handled the same way in DA2, with SS options for everyone (which fans asked for after DA:O).

[quote]Conversation options have been dumbed down.[/quote]

Actually, if you look at the transcripts, Hawke speaks more and more elaborately than the Warden. The paraphrase is just Bioware's Good/Neutral/Evil jig they've done is BG.

[quote]Combat has junked out on amphetamaine sulphate. Too much leaping and jumping about,very hack and slash. The more strategic combat which I prefered has been chucked out of the window.[/quote]

Fireball + Fireball + Fireball + Mass Paralyze (alternate w rune combo) + Chain Lightning + Cone of Cold + Winter's Grasp + Nightmare + rinse, lather, repeat = 100% win for every encounter. Substitute Mana Clash if there are mages (or abominations or demons). DA:O over.  

Also, 2H are not used like baseball bats, a shield is not swung around to leave the torso open, daggers are not short swords. DA:O's combat was just as unrealistic, except wrongly subdued.

[quote]Enemies constantly exploding into buckets of gore is too mangaesque.In DAO you would sometimes get some neat decapitations, which were at least more realistic looking. [/quote]

Decapitations don't work that way, unless you've got weapons that saw clean through bone (or DA:O humans,elves,dwarves and darkspawn don't have bones).

[quote]DAO has the better and more varied abilities,talents and spells. The spell effects look better and more realistic in combat  aswell I don't like the ability tree format. [/quote]

If by better you mean "more useless traps" yes, DA:O had better spells. DA:O also had less spells and talents than DA2 - but then DA2 decided to be stupid a different way and restrict weapons by class.

[quote]Herbs,poisons and grenades have been simplified to their detriment.[/quote]

I see you've never used them in DA2.

This one is an aside:

[quote]The lack of customisation of characters armour and equipment is a big miss. Once again simplified for the casual gamer.[/quote]

Casual gamers can wear pants and can tell if number 23 > 20. Please leave the self-aggradizing approach alone.

[quote]Trash - I don't want to be collecting and selling it.[/quote]

You just said that loot was important. Well, almost all items in DA:O were trash loot. Darkspawn daggers and shields galore. Not to mention all the garbage like Blank Vellum.

[quote]I think I've pretty much summed it up  despite just slagging DA2 big time I actually enjoyed the game to a certain extent, but to me it doesn't hold a candle to DAO and the way in which core fans have been abandoned in order to attract the casual gamer that lacks the patience to deal with the intricacies and customisation of rpgs is a really poor show[/quote]

DA2 was DA:O with a different coat of paint and some design-level changes. There were some areas (environments and # of quest paths) were DA2 was clearly inferior to DA:O. But there were areas that were identical, except DA:O somehow (confusingly) is praised for it.

Modifié par In Exile, 28 juin 2011 - 04:35 .

[Guitar-Hero]

DA 2 did alot of things right, but all of these things were to be expected as improvements, and it lost the soul and feel that made DA:O a good game, DA:O, none of them however were great.

[stoicsentry2]

DA:O is far superior to DA2. I wish there was an option to create a poll here, I figure DA:O would be winning about 80% to 20%.

[FieryDove]

Raice wrote...

Now wait a minute - you're putting words in my mouth.  I didn't say the complaints weren't valid - I said that the complaints weren't necessarily valid, just as they aren't unnecessarily valid.  The fact that they are valid or invalid is irrelevant to the fact that the complaints are non-issues.

You said with the exception of recycled maps people's complaints are  "Non-Issues". How is that not equal to not valid? You would make an excellent Gith, circles of meaning and *knowing* this or that.

I vote xkg wins discussion.

Just for the record, even if my laundry list of things I didn't like or thought were replaced/changed needlessly in DA2 is huge I LIKE both games.

Oh and to add to the pile, the recycled maps didn't bother me.

Modifié par FieryDove, 28 juin 2011 - 06:13 .

[cloudberserker]

With a proper development time, I think DAII could have won the fight. As it is, however, DAO is clearly the better game between the two.

[csfteeeer]

Steffen wrote...

DA 2 did alot of things right, but all of these things were to be expected as improvements, and it lost the soul and feel that made DA:O a good game, DA:O, none of them however were great.

Your Opinion.

yes DAO was great, my opinion.

[MorrigansLove]

Origins for life. Definitely one of the greatest games I have ever played just for the story, lore and characters alone.

Modifié par MorrigansLove, 28 juin 2011 - 06:33 .

[xkg]

stoicsentry2 wrote...

DA:O is far superior to DA2. I wish there was an option to create a poll here, I figure DA:O would be winning about 80% to 20%.

You can create a poll here on BSN without any problem. MENU "My Content" -> "Polls" -> "Create new poll"

But there are polls on that subject already here (Sharkey1337's polls for example).
You can vote and see the results here:

http://social.bioware.com/956165/polls/

[Realmzmaster]

xkg wrote...

stoicsentry2 wrote...

DA:O is far superior to DA2. I wish there was an option to create a poll here, I figure DA:O would be winning about 80% to 20%.

You can create a poll here on BSN without any problem. MENU "My Content" -> "Polls" -> "Create new poll"

But there are polls on that subject already here (Sharkey1337's polls for example).
You can vote and see the results here:

http://social.bioware.com/956165/polls/

Interesting poll especially the one abot liking or disliking DA2. The community seems about evenly split. So what can Bioware make of the poll in regards to DA3?

Edited for spelling

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 28 juin 2011 - 09:13 .

[xkg]

Realmzmaster wrote...

xkg wrote...

stoicsentry2 wrote...

DA:O is far superior to DA2. I wish there was an option to create a poll here, I figure DA:O would be winning about 80% to 20%.

You can create a poll here on BSN without any problem. MENU "My Content" -> "Polls" -> "Create new poll"

But there are polls on that subject already here (Sharkey1337's polls for example).
You can vote and see the results here:

http://social.bioware.com/956165/polls/

Interesting poll especially the one abot liking or didliking DA2. The community seems about evenly split. So what can Bioware make of the poll in regards to DA3?

I would say - go back to DAO style but the others are going to say "Dont do that" so there is no easy answer here.
No easy way out of this now for Bioware.