903 réponses à ce sujet

[Theagg]

JaegerBane wrote...

It's not exact, but it's really a stretch to assume that Origins and Awakening took place over a single year. I mean, for one thing Wynne even outright states to a mage Warden that it has been 'over a year' since he left the tower, and that's about the middle of the game. Add to the fact that Awakeing takes place roughly six months after the end of Origins, and you end up with the absurd scenario of the bulk of Origins taking place within a few months.

No, I didn't suggest both Origins and Awakenings took place within
one year, Origins alone did that, add 6 months for Awakening. So around
18 months for both.

Lothering falls after you seal the first treaty, so I seriously doubt that it's more than a month if the the entirety of the Warden's saga is supposed to take place during a single year.

This, of course, is pure supposition. With no exact time scales for specific events given, we can't say exactly at what point in Origins 'year' these events happen. Therefore we cannot know at what point exactly in that year Hawke and co fled Lothering. Granted it won't be towards the end of that year...

......And Hawke spends a few weeks getting to Kirkwall, I believe Varric mentions it.

But then again, a lot of DA2's content is very sloppy, so I shouldn't really be surprised.

Varric mentions it takes two weeks to just cross the sea. (they spend two weeks on board the ship) He makes no mention of how long it took Hawke and family to get from Lothering to the coastal port in Ferelden (the obviously difficult and lengthy part of the trip given they required Flemeths help) and catch that ship, with the aid of Flemeth.  (anything you or I might suggest as to how long it took them for that part of the trip north is pure supposition )

All we know for certain know is that Flemeth made clear, the journey from Lothering to Kirkwall in its entirety was "quite the trip" and obviously a very long journey.

[JaegerBane]

Theagg wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

It's not exact, but it's really a stretch to assume that Origins and Awakening took place over a single year. I mean, for one thing Wynne even outright states to a mage Warden that it has been 'over a year' since he left the tower, and that's about the middle of the game. Add to the fact that Awakeing takes place roughly six months after the end of Origins, and you end up with the absurd scenario of the bulk of Origins taking place within a few months.

No, I didn't suggest both Origins and Awakenings took place within
one year, Origins alone did that, add 6 months for Awakening. So around
18 months for both.

Awakening takes place about six months after DA:O. In order for both to fit into an 18 month time frame, Awakening must have lasted around a week. You can't honestly expect that to be taken seriously.

Taken into account travel time, Origins alone can't realistically take place over anything less than about 18 months. So you have this, six months just for Awakening to start, however long it takes for Awakening to end (a few months, give or take?) then however long it takes for Anders to intergrate into the Grey Wardens, carry out some expeditions into the deep roads, become an abomination, get cast out, make the trip to Kirkwall.... all within 18 months? No way.

The fact that he's treating refugess from the blight when you first meet him kinda puts a cork in the idea that the blight has been over and done with for a long time.

This, of course, is pure supposition. With no exact time scales for specific events given, we can't say exactly at what point in Origins 'year' these events happen. Therefore we cannot know at what point exactly in that year Hawke and co fled Lothering. Granted it won't be towards the end of that year...

It isn't pure supposition. It physically happens in game. I would suggest that you brush up on this stuff before debating about it, as going around in circles accomplishes nothing. We know that Hawke left Lothering at about the point where the Darkspawn first hit it, as evidenced by the dialogue. Therefore he'll be long gone by the time Lothering is considered destroyed, even if it didn't last long.

I guess you could argue that the first treaty somehow takes up more time than the other three put together, along with all the drama in Denerim, but barring such absurd conjecture, it's a fair assumption to make that, since Lothering falls after the first treaty is acquired, it happens relatively early on in the time frame.

Varric mentions it takes two weeks to just cross the sea. (they spend two weeks on board the ship) He makes no mention of how long it took Hawke and family to get from Lothering to the coastal port in Ferelden (the obviously difficult and lengthy part of the trip given they required Flemeths help) and catch that ship, with the aid of Flemeth.  (anything you or I might suggest as to how long it took them for that part of the trip north is pure supposition )

All we know for certain know is that Flemeth made clear, the journey from Lothering to Kirkwall in its entirety was "quite the trip" and obviously a very long journey.

I find it rather amusing that you accuse me of pure supposition when I mention stuff that is known to happen in-game, but you see fit to interepret Flemeth's vague mention of 'quite the trip' to be long enough to add years onto Hawke's original arrival date in Kirkwall. There's nothing 'obvious' about it, but it couldn't have been *that* long as she needs to be back in Ferelden for Morrigan's personal quest to take place. Which, like Wynne's very non-suppositional mention of it being more than a year since the origin, takes place somewhere in the middle of the story.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 10 juillet 2011 - 03:23 .

[xkg]

JaegerBane wrote...

I find it rather amusing that you accuse me of pure supposition when I mention stuff that is known to happen in-game, but you see fit to interepret Flemeth's vague mention of 'quite the trip' to be long enough to add years onto Hawke's original arrival date in Kirkwall. There's nothing 'obvious' about it, but it couldn't have been *that* long as she needs to be back in Ferelden for Morrigan's personal quest to take place. Which, like Wynne's very non-suppositional mention of it being more than a year since the origin, takes place somewhere in the middle of the story.

There is no way for the trip from Lothering to Gwaren to be such long.
Why?
Seeing how much longer the trip from Orzammar and Redclif to Denerim is, and how many times did i travel from one to another - wow my DAO playthrough must heve been years, years long.

Modifié par xkg, 10 juillet 2011 - 03:35 .

[Kail Ashton]

lol i do have to agree with the others that the ONLY way Ander's timeline can make sense is if the calender years in thedas are longer than our own, it's a fantasy world, not earth, it's the reasonible way bioware can explain this disaster

Why in fact they have not yet is beyond me, it's the simplest solution to a very stupid problem that bioware created

[TEWR]

JaegerBane wrote...


I think this is a question of theory versus practice. While it's all very well saying that focusing on one part makes the universe dull, the fact of the matter is they did just as you advocate, and it produced a game with a very poor and uninteresting story. Common sense would say that trying to expand on other groups may be 'different' but it certainly isn't something inherently positive.

The Mage-Templar conflict and Hawke's Rise to Power had enormous potential, but was executed very poorly for various reasons:

1) Short dev time
2) Making a black and white situation grey with the reasoning that a boss fight at the end with a certain mage would make it grey
3) Insane mages everywhere, killing off the only good Templar we got to know, etc.
4) Not enough development of Orsino and Meredith
5) The idol wasn't shown enough to truly cause us to think Meredith was in a downward spiral
6) Hawke can't become a Mage-Underground leader.

and more than that.


I, and many others, have thought up various ways DA2 could've been many times better and many times more interesting. It's not a problem with the story itself. But rather, it's a problem with how Bioware went about making it.

I fully agree the whole Darkspawn/Grey Warden thing can only carry so many stories, but the simple fact is we didn't get much on them in the first game. We gained some tantalising glimpses into the formation of the Darkspawn, as well as what could turn out to be their evolution through the whole Architect saga, not to mention hints on the nature of the Grey Wardens through Avernus - but we still don't actually know what the Darkspawn are or where they came from. There's plenty of material left to go over. I for one would be far more interested in learning about this as oppose to 50 hours of boring spiel concerning side issues that were already done to death in the first game. Yay, the Qunari want to conquer. Yay, the mages are oppressed and the Chantry is the opressor. Yay. We've heard all that already. I want to see something *new*. I mean, the finale to Act 1 was great. You saw stuff that has never been seen before, and uncovered an element to Dwarven history which indicates it goes further back than anyone is aware of... but instead of continuing with that, we get forced into listening to more spiel about how terrible the chantry is blah blah blah.

As I said, it's a question of theory versus practice. The devs have shown that they can make a cracking story based on the conflict between the Wardens and the Spawn, so I'd rather they focus on something they do well, rather than aimless navel gazing about all these boring side issues purely for the sake of making it 'different'.

I'm not against learning more about the Darkspawn, but to focus entirely on them for every game shouldn't be done. Maybe a few quests in each game and some DLC, but the main games should be different. They should have their own plots.

[TEWR]

It's my belief that Origins takes a whole year, and Awakening begins immediately after (possiby 3 weeks after) and it took 3-4 months to defeat the Darkspawn in Amaranthine.


I don't buy the whole "6 months after Origins" thing we were told.


Bioware needs to give us an official timeline of all the events

[xkg]

Kail Ashton wrote...

lol i do have to agree with the others that the ONLY way Ander's timeline can make sense is if the calender years in thedas are longer than our own, it's a fantasy world, not earth, it's the reasonible way bioware can explain this disaster

Why in fact they have not yet is beyond me, it's the simplest solution to a very stupid problem that bioware created

Year in Theads is actually about 5 days shorter than in rl .

"The calendar in Thedas consists of twelve thirty-day months."
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Calendar

[Theagg]

JaegerBane wrote...

Awakening takes place about six months after DA:O. In order for both to fit into an 18 month time frame, Awakening must have lasted around a week. You can't honestly expect that to be taken seriously.

Taken into account travel time, Origins alone can't realistically take place over anything less than about 18 months. So you have this, six months just for Awakening to start, however long it takes for Awakening to end (a few months, give or take?) then however long it takes for Anders to intergrate into the Grey Wardens, carry out some expeditions into the deep roads, become an abomination, get cast out, make the trip to Kirkwall.... all within 18 months? No way.

Now you want me to take travel time into account when regarding your take on events ? Fine but then we need someone in authority to give us mileage totals for the distance between places in Thedas. With that we can come to some sort of idea about how long it takes all these characters to go about their business. Depending on the transport they use of course (foot or cart) and the state of play at the time (Warden travelling through free territory, Hawke and family travelling up north in difficult circumstances and so on)

The fact that he's treating refugess from the blight when you first meet him kinda puts a cork in the idea that the blight has been over and done with for a long time.

Ahh right, so that's how it happens in the real world too then ? The refugees from a disaster simply up sticks and move back home immediately the disaster is over. Aid workers immediately leave them to their own devices. Not so.

I think if you watch real world events you will note refugees are often left in camps in other countries, being attended to by aid workers for a long time after the crisis that brought them to that point has passed. Sometimes they spend years in such camps.

It isn't pure supposition. It physically happens in game. I would suggest that you brush up on this stuff before debating about it, as going around in circles accomplishes nothing. We know that Hawke left Lothering at about the point where the Darkspawn first hit it, as evidenced by the dialogue. Therefore he'll be long gone by the time Lothering is considered destroyed, even if it didn't last long.

I guess you could argue that the first treaty somehow takes up more time than the other three put together, along with all the drama in Denerim, but barring such absurd conjecture, it's a fair assumption to make that, since Lothering falls after the first treaty is acquired, it happens relatively early on in the time frame.

It 'physically happens' in the game. What exactly do you mean by that since there is no ticking clock in Origins by which to make any kind of actual specific statements about individual event time. Even the Wiki chronology is rather broad, ie how long is the period 9.31 after all ? And Lothering is actually destroyed pretty much fully by the time Hawke and co flee. The landscape at game start attests to that. They don't flee whilst the grass is green and the windmill is still turning thats for sure.

I find it rather amusing that you accuse me of pure supposition when I mention stuff that is known to happen in-game, but you see fit to interepret Flemeth's vague mention of 'quite the trip' to be long enough to add years onto Hawke's original arrival date in Kirkwall. There's nothing 'obvious' about it, but it couldn't have been *that* long as she needs to be back in Ferelden for Morrigan's personal quest to take place. Which, like Wynne's very non-suppositional mention of it being more than a year since the origin, takes place somewhere in the middle of the story.

Years ? See now thats a strawman pure and simple. Who mentioned years ?

I don't need to 'brush up'. There is no clear timescale of individual events happening within Origins on a week by week or month by month basis. Tell me at what point in 9.30 or 9.31 did Flemeth get slain by the Warden for example. You can't. This is in fact one of the problems with Origins mentioned elsewhere, nothing happens in such a strictly chronological progression that gives any sense of urgency foor example. As such its very difficult to try to overlap events within those broader time frames (9.30, 9.31 etc) and say that they clash or contradict.

But here we go as an example, Hawke and family finally arrive in Kirkwall about 6 months into the events of Origins. Quite feasible. Its 9.30. They then spend a 'year' (how long is a piece of string ?) in Kirkwall before Act 1 commences. Its now early 9.31 at a guess. Both Origins and Awakenings are resolved at some point in 9.31 but which points ? At some other point between 9.31 and the beginning of 9.32, Hawke finally heads off into the Deep Roads.

How long elapses between the point in 9.31 at which Awakenings is resolved and the point in 9.31 at which Anders surfaces in Kirkwall is not known. We don't have an exact calendar for that.

[TEWR]

xkg wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

lol i do have to agree with the others that the ONLY way Ander's timeline can make sense is if the calender years in thedas are longer than our own, it's a fantasy world, not earth, it's the reasonible way bioware can explain this disaster

Why in fact they have not yet is beyond me, it's the simplest solution to a very stupid problem that bioware created

Year in Theads is actually about 5 days shorter than in rl .

"The calendar in Thedas consists of twelve thirty-day months."
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Calendar

I wish they hadn't done that. 


seriously, that was the only valid explanation I could think of  weeks ago without requiring proof from the devs to support it, and then that information just shot it to hell and shot Bioware in the foot.


I'd appreciate a change in lore on that one.

[Ronin2006]

Theagg wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Awakening takes place about six months after DA:O. In order for both to fit into an 18 month time frame, Awakening must have lasted around a week. You can't honestly expect that to be taken seriously.

Taken into account travel time, Origins alone can't realistically take place over anything less than about 18 months. So you have this, six months just for Awakening to start, however long it takes for Awakening to end (a few months, give or take?) then however long it takes for Anders to intergrate into the Grey Wardens, carry out some expeditions into the deep roads, become an abomination, get cast out, make the trip to Kirkwall.... all within 18 months? No way.

Now you want me to take travel time into account when regarding your take on events ? Fine but then we need someone in authority to give us mileage totals for the distance between places in Thedas. With that we can come to some sort of idea about how long it takes all these characters to go about their business. Depending on the transport they use of course (foot or cart) and the state of play at the time (Warden travelling through free territory, Hawke and family travelling up north in difficult circumstances and so on)

The fact that he's treating refugess from the blight when you first meet him kinda puts a cork in the idea that the blight has been over and done with for a long time.

Ahh right, so that's how it happens in the real world too then ? The refugees from a disaster simply up sticks and move back home immediately the disaster is over. Aid workers immediately leave them to their own devices. Not so.

I think if you watch real world events you will note refugees are often left in camps in other countries, being attended to by aid workers for a long time after the crisis that brought them to that point has passed. Sometimes they spend years in such camps.

It isn't pure supposition. It physically happens in game. I would suggest that you brush up on this stuff before debating about it, as going around in circles accomplishes nothing. We know that Hawke left Lothering at about the point where the Darkspawn first hit it, as evidenced by the dialogue. Therefore he'll be long gone by the time Lothering is considered destroyed, even if it didn't last long.

I guess you could argue that the first treaty somehow takes up more time than the other three put together, along with all the drama in Denerim, but barring such absurd conjecture, it's a fair assumption to make that, since Lothering falls after the first treaty is acquired, it happens relatively early on in the time frame.

It 'physically happens' in the game. What exactly do you mean by that since there is no ticking clock in Origins by which to make any kind of actual specific statements about individual event time. Even the Wiki chronology is rather broad, ie how long is the period 9.31 after all ? And Lothering is actually destroyed pretty much fully by the time Hawke and co flee. The landscape at game start attests to that. They don't flee whilst the grass is green and the windmill is still turning thats for sure.

I find it rather amusing that you accuse me of pure supposition when I mention stuff that is known to happen in-game, but you see fit to interepret Flemeth's vague mention of 'quite the trip' to be long enough to add years onto Hawke's original arrival date in Kirkwall. There's nothing 'obvious' about it, but it couldn't have been *that* long as she needs to be back in Ferelden for Morrigan's personal quest to take place. Which, like Wynne's very non-suppositional mention of it being more than a year since the origin, takes place somewhere in the middle of the story.

Years ? See now thats a strawman pure and simple. Who mentioned years ?

I don't need to 'brush up'. There is no clear timescale of individual events happening within Origins on a week by week or month by month basis. Tell me at what point in 9.30 or 9.31 did Flemeth get slain by the Warden for example. You can't. This is in fact one of the problems with Origins mentioned elsewhere, nothing happens in such a strictly chronological progression that gives any sense of urgency foor example. As such its very difficult to try to overlap events within those broader time frames (9.30, 9.31 etc) and say that they clash or contradict.

But here we go as an example, Hawke and family finally arrive in Kirkwall about 6 months into the events of Origins. Quite feasible. Its 9.30. They then spend a 'year' (how long is a piece of string ?) in Kirkwall before Act 1 commences. Its now early 9.31 at a guess. Both Origins and Awakenings are resolved at some point in 9.31 but which points ? At some other point between 9.31 and the beginning of 9.32, Hawke finally heads off into the Deep Roads.

How long elapses between the point in 9.31 at which Awakenings is resolved and the point in 9.31 at which Anders surfaces in Kirkwall is not known. We don't have an exact calendar for that.

Wow, even though I'm on a gaming forum, the nerdiness of this exchange still astounds me.

[JaegerBane]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It's my belief that Origins takes a whole year, and Awakening begins immediately after (possiby 3 weeks after) and it took 3-4 months to defeat the Darkspawn in Amaranthine.


I don't buy the whole "6 months after Origins" thing we were told.


Bioware needs to give us an official timeline of all the events

Well, since it's a given that it takes place 'several months' according to Fernando Melo and six months after according to the wiki, there's no real sensible reason to assume it takes place immediately after.

I mean, you can believe whatever you like, but if you choose to manufacture your own time frame in direct contravention to what the developers themselves say, don't be surprised if no-one takes your seriously. Anyone can come up with whatever they like, that isn't the point behind what is being discussed here.

Given that a castle ends up being renovated in the course of Awakening, I think the 3-4 month figure makes sense, though.

[alex90c]

Ronin2006 wrote...

Wow, even though I'm on a gaming forum, the nerdiness of this exchange still astounds me.

Wait 'till they start quoting codex entries.

[Aaleel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It's my belief that Origins takes a whole year, and Awakening begins immediately after (possiby 3 weeks after) and it took 3-4 months to defeat the Darkspawn in Amaranthine.


I don't buy the whole "6 months after Origins" thing we were told.


Bioware needs to give us an official timeline of all the events

Well considering when you do Oghren's companion quest.  Felsi has a baby in-between the two game.  I don't know what Dwarf pregnancy lengths are but I'd think it's some months.

Also if you're a mage at some point in the story Wynne says it's been a year since you left the Circle Tower and that happens before you even get to the Landsmeet.

Modifié par Aaleel, 10 juillet 2011 - 04:25 .

[Theagg]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

xkg wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

lol i do have to agree with the others that the ONLY way Ander's timeline can make sense is if the calender years in thedas are longer than our own, it's a fantasy world, not earth, it's the reasonible way bioware can explain this disaster

Why in fact they have not yet is beyond me, it's the simplest solution to a very stupid problem that bioware created

Year in Theads is actually about 5 days shorter than in rl .

"The calendar in Thedas consists of twelve thirty-day months."
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Calendar

I wish they hadn't done that. 


seriously, that was the only valid explanation I could think of  weeks ago without requiring proof from the devs to support it, and then that information just shot it to hell and shot Bioware in the foot.


I'd appreciate a change in lore on that one.

I would like to know how long a Thedan year and month is. Same as a Earth year and month ? Is Thedas on a planet with a larger orbit than Earth's...

Oh hang on...nerd attack...

[JaegerBane]

Theagg wrote...
Now you want me to take travel time into account when regarding your take on events ? Fine but then we need someone in authority to give us mileage totals for the distance between places in Thedas. With that we can come to some sort of idea about how long it takes all these characters to go about their business. Depending on the transport they use of course (foot or cart) and the state of play at the time (Warden travelling through free territory, Hawke and family travelling up north in difficult circumstances and so on)

Of course you need to take into account travel time. What sense would there be in ignoring travel time when discussing how long the time periods last in a given campaign that has you travelling around an entire country on foot?

If you want to get down to the level of days and hours, yes, you may need specific mileage totals, but you don't need any of this when we're talking accuracy being around a few months.

Ahh right, so that's how it happens in the real world too then ?

No, but given that Ferelden has benign leadership and is two weeks away by ship, the idea that refugees are spending years in a city that is virtually hostile to them 'just because refugees in real life sometimes do it' is ludicrous.

It 'physically happens' in the game. What exactly do you mean by that since there is no ticking clock in Origins by which to make any kind of actual specific statements about individual event time. Even the Wiki chronology is rather broad, ie how long is the period 9.31 after all ? And Lothering is actually destroyed pretty much fully by the time Hawke and co flee. The landscape at game start attests to that. They don't flee whilst the grass is green and the windmill is still turning thats for sure.

I don't really understand why you need a ticking clock to figure this out. No matter which treaty you go for, Lothering always is considered destroyed afterwards. After this, the Warden has three more treaties, a civil war to avert and a battle to win. The idea that all of this somehow takes less time than simply getting the first treaty isn't realistic, therefore logically Lothering must have fallen earlier in.

*How* earlier is up for debate, if all of Origins takes place over less than two years, and it takes place after merely the first step in the main quest, I don't really understand why you'd assume this was later rather than earlier. Beyond arguing for argument's sake, that is.

Years ? See now thats a strawman pure and simple. Who mentioned years ?

It isn't a strawman. It's the minimum amount of time needed for Hawke's meeting with Anders to make sense.

Think about it. Let's say it took 6 months to get to Gwaren (an incredibly long time given that the Warden made such a jouney several times over the main game). This would still put Hawke first meeting Anders about year and a half after the fall of Lothering.

When you factor in that all of Awakening had to have passed (a time period of at least 8 months, unless you're going to argue that all of Awakening took place in a few weeks, castle-building and all), Ander's brief career with the Wardens and then add the rest of Origins, this basically means that Origins would need to have taken place over less than a year. Which doesn't make any sense with what the characters actually say in game. Nor does it make any sense with your own idea of how long it took for them to get to Gwaren, as the Warden did far more travelling in that time).

This is, of course, a lot of error built into this. But the sheer amount of content that needs to have taken place in such a short space of time just doesn't make sense with what we see in DA2.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 10 juillet 2011 - 04:39 .

[TEWR]

JaegerBane wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It's my belief that Origins takes a whole year, and Awakening begins immediately after (possiby 3 weeks after) and it took 3-4 months to defeat the Darkspawn in Amaranthine.


I don't buy the whole "6 months after Origins" thing we were told.


Bioware needs to give us an official timeline of all the events

Well, since it's a given that it takes place 'several months' according to Fernando Melo and six months after according to the wiki, there's no real sensible reason to assume it takes place immediately after.

I mean, you can believe whatever you like, but if you choose to manufacture your own time frame in direct contravention to what the developers themselves say, don't be surprised if no-one takes your seriously. Anyone can come up with whatever they like, that isn't the point behind what is being discussed here.

Given that a castle ends up being renovated in the course of Awakening, I think the 3-4 month figure makes sense, though.

Ah, I didn't realize that Fernando Melo gave a comment on it taking place several months after. Dammit now my fanfic with some canon thrown in won't make much sense


I just don't take the wiki seriously since they have nothing to prove it takes place 6 months after Origins. Fernando said several. He didn't say 6. Several could mean anywhere from 2-4 months after (though if it was two it would be best to use couple instead of several)

[Theagg]

Aaleel wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It's my belief that Origins takes a whole year, and Awakening begins immediately after (possiby 3 weeks after) and it took 3-4 months to defeat the Darkspawn in Amaranthine.


I don't buy the whole "6 months after Origins" thing we were told.


Bioware needs to give us an official timeline of all the events

Well considering when you do Oghren's companion quest.  Felsi has a baby in-between the two game.  I don't know what Dwarf pregnancy lengths are but I'd think it's some months.

Also if you're a mage at some point in the story Wynne says it's been a year since you left the Circle Tower and that happens before you even get to the Landsmeet.

Well again, on the broader scale at what point in Origins did Oghren do the deed ? Some time in 9.30, or 9.31 ? Again, the timing of specific individual events in the game ends up being very fluid, such that its quite feasible that Felsi gave birth towards the end of, or just after the end of Origins.

There is no requirement that Felsi  has to become pregnant only right at the end of Origins.

[Kail Ashton]

xkg wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

lol i do have to agree with the others that the ONLY way Ander's timeline can make sense is if the calender years in thedas are longer than our own, it's a fantasy world, not earth, it's the reasonible way bioware can explain this disaster

Why in fact they have not yet is beyond me, it's the simplest solution to a very stupid problem that bioware created

Year in Theads is actually about 5 days shorter than in rl .

"The calendar in Thedas consists of twelve thirty-day months."
http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Calendar

*bangs head to desk* goddamnit bioware.....

[TEWR]

Do we even know when Felsi went topside? Maybe she was pregnant when she left, because Oghren did sleep with her when she was in Orzammar.


We also don't know how long dwarven pregnancies last. We know human pregnancies are 9 months tops. But humans and dwarves are two different races.

[JFarr74]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...


I think this is a question of theory versus practice. While it's all very well saying that focusing on one part makes the universe dull, the fact of the matter is they did just as you advocate, and it produced a game with a very poor and uninteresting story. Common sense would say that trying to expand on other groups may be 'different' but it certainly isn't something inherently positive.

The Mage-Templar conflict and Hawke's Rise to Power had enormous potential, but was executed very poorly for various reasons:

1) Short dev time
2) Making a black and white situation grey with the reasoning that a boss fight at the end with a certain mage would make it grey
3) Insane mages everywhere, killing off the only good Templar we got to know, etc.
4) Not enough development of Orsino and Meredith
5) The idol wasn't shown enough to truly cause us to think Meredith was in a downward spiral
6) Hawke can't become a Mage-Underground leader.

and more than that.


I, and many others, have thought up various ways DA2 could've been many times better and many times more interesting. It's not a problem with the story itself. But rather, it's a problem with how Bioware went about making it.

I fully agree the whole Darkspawn/Grey Warden thing can only carry so many stories, but the simple fact is we didn't get much on them in the first game. We gained some tantalising glimpses into the formation of the Darkspawn, as well as what could turn out to be their evolution through the whole Architect saga, not to mention hints on the nature of the Grey Wardens through Avernus - but we still don't actually know what the Darkspawn are or where they came from. There's plenty of material left to go over. I for one would be far more interested in learning about this as oppose to 50 hours of boring spiel concerning side issues that were already done to death in the first game. Yay, the Qunari want to conquer. Yay, the mages are oppressed and the Chantry is the opressor. Yay. We've heard all that already. I want to see something *new*. I mean, the finale to Act 1 was great. You saw stuff that has never been seen before, and uncovered an element to Dwarven history which indicates it goes further back than anyone is aware of... but instead of continuing with that, we get forced into listening to more spiel about how terrible the chantry is blah blah blah.

As I said, it's a question of theory versus practice. The devs have shown that they can make a cracking story based on the conflict between the Wardens and the Spawn, so I'd rather they focus on something they do well, rather than aimless navel gazing about all these boring side issues purely for the sake of making it 'different'.

I'm not against learning more about the Darkspawn, but to focus entirely on them for every game shouldn't be done. Maybe a few quests in each game and some DLC, but the main games should be different. They should have their own plots.

Instead of killing both Orsino and Meredith, the one you would kill would be determined by which side you choose, so Meredith will be the final boss if you choose to side with the Mages, and Orsino would be the final booss if you choose to side with the Templars.  Also, how does Varric not know where Hawke is at the end of Dragon Age 2 if he sides with the Templars?  He says they made him the new Vicount of Kirkwall, so wouldn't he be there?

[JaegerBane]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Ah, I didn't realize that Fernando Melo gave a comment on it taking place several months after. Dammit now my fanfic with some canon thrown in won't make much sense


I just don't take the wiki seriously since they have nothing to prove it takes place 6 months after Origins. Fernando said several. He didn't say 6. Several could mean anywhere from 2-4 months after (though if it was two it would be best to use couple instead of several)

*chuckles*

Well, I guess if you just want to twist whatever he says to be as close as possible to your ideal figure, then no-one's stopping you. All I'm saying is that if your start messing around with loopholes and trying to re-interpret what was said and done, both from the developers and in-game, the debate becomes largely incoherent.

I don't really understand why you'd disagree with the wiki, given how reliable it's been, but I guess that if you're dead set on believing that everything takes place at a ridiculous time frame that isn't backed up by anything mentioned so far, I can't stop you

[TEWR]

Cassandra says he left.



And no, I'd at least want Meredith to die somehow. Boss battle for pro-mage players or just a cutscene or something.


If I were to side with the Templars (which I never will) I wouldn't be on her side. I'd be on Cullen's. She's just an insane wackjob that is wearing Templar armor to me.

[JFarr74]

I wonder what the final fate linking Hawke and the Warden is.....? I mean, who are we gonna play as in Dragon Age 3?

[erynnar]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It's my belief that Origins takes a whole year, and Awakening begins immediately after (possiby 3 weeks after) and it took 3-4 months to defeat the Darkspawn in Amaranthine.


I don't buy the whole "6 months after Origins" thing we were told.


Bioware needs to give us an official timeline of all the events

Well, since it's a given that it takes place 'several months' according to Fernando Melo and six months after according to the wiki, there's no real sensible reason to assume it takes place immediately after.

I mean, you can believe whatever you like, but if you choose to manufacture your own time frame in direct contravention to what the developers themselves say, don't be surprised if no-one takes your seriously. Anyone can come up with whatever they like, that isn't the point behind what is being discussed here.

Given that a castle ends up being renovated in the course of Awakening, I think the 3-4 month figure makes sense, though.

Ah, I didn't realize that Fernando Melo gave a comment on it taking place several months after. Dammit now my fanfic with some canon thrown in won't make much sense


I just don't take the wiki seriously since they have nothing to prove it takes place 6 months after Origins. Fernando said several. He didn't say 6. Several could mean anywhere from 2-4 months after (though if it was two it would be best to use couple instead of several)

Several means at least three so it has to be three +.  How much +, *shrugs* At least by the definition of several anyways. ROFL!

[Theagg]

JaegerBane wrote...

No, but given that Ferelden has benign leadership and is two weeks away by ship, the idea that refugees are spending years in a city that is virtually hostile to them 'just because refugees in real life sometimes do it' is ludicrous.

No it isn't. Refugees in our real world spend years in countries where exactly this kind of hostility towards them exists...but thats besides the point since I'm not actually talking about years. You also fail to take into account the mindset of refugees. Return to a blighted landscape with no home whatsoever in many instances or stay where the going is arguably somewhat more pleasant than that prospect.

It isn't a strawman. It's the minimum amount of time needed for Hawke's meeting with Anders to make sense.

Well, that's your opinion, not a factual statment. I don't feel 'years' are required for Hawke's meeting with Anders to make sense.

Think about it. Let's say it took 6 months to get to Gwaren (an incredibly long time given that the Warden made such a jouney several times over the main game). This would still put Hawke first meeting Anders about year and a half after the fall of Lothering.

When you factor in that all of Awakening had to have passed (a time period of at least 8 months, unless you're going to argue that all of Awakening took place in a few weeks, castle-building and all), and then add the rest of Origins, this basically means that Origins would need to have taken place over less than a year. Which doesn't make any sense with what the characters actually say in game. Nor does it make any sense with your own idea of how long it took for them to get to Gwaren, as the Warden did far more travelling in that time).

This is, of course, a lot of error built into this. But the sheer amount of content that needs to have taken place in such a short space of time just doesn't make sense with what we see in DA2.

Sigh, again you are intent on implying I made arguments that in fact I never did. At no point did I suggest it took them upwards of 6 months to get from Lothering to Gwaren. Or anywhere near that amount of time.

All I can say is that chronologically all events in Origins and Awakenings were resolved within the time frame of some point in 9.30 and another point in 9.31. So both of those are resovled and done within two years. Simple as that.

Hawke heads off to the Deep Roads somewhere towards the end of those two years. That does leave a period in which Anders can cross the sea, having done other things post Awakenings and chronologically meet up with Hawke. (ostensibly if you play the game one way, literally he meets Hawke for the first time the day before Hawke and co head off to the Deep Roads.)