221 réponses à ce sujet

[Anoneemouse]

This is sooooooo not traditional RPG, and any rude ppl who think it is are ignorant. RPG includes text based games. Not click-hack-and-slash. This is action/adventure.

[Kabraxal]

[quote]ginger76 wrote...

[quote]Kabraxal wrote...

[/quote]

You are still wrong... the only real difference from Origins into this game is that you can't equip party members with armour and choose a different race.  O no... that is all that made DAO a traditional RPG... not choosing a class, not having customisation for the PC, not having customisation options for party abilities, not having the branching choices.... yep, those other two things are the only things that matter. 

Sorry, but DA2 is a traditional RPG for the most part. And this coming from someone that prefers Origins. [/quote]

Just curious: what other "RPG's" have you played? At least google a bit before trying to sound like you know what you're talking about.[/quote]

Every Bethesda game from the beginning, Diablo, Deus Ex, Origins, Mass Effect, Planescape Torment, pen and paper RPGs from varying companies, Vampire the Masquerade (pen and paper and the PC game), JRPGs, the Witcher, Two Worlds, Risen... I can go on.  But I sense you would rather your childish argument be believed so maybe I'll stop showing that I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Really, hurts when someone who is well versed in RPGs doesn't agree with your childish tantrums about this game, doesn't it?

[ginger76]

Reva-C wrote...

ginger76 wrote...

 I have a conspiracy theory. Maybe DA2 is sacrificial lamb in order to achieve the greater good?  Because Bioware is so big and they CAN make a crapy game just to show EA: see, this happens when you push us too far - I just don't see how this could sell better than DAO. Or even close. **** I don't see how this could sell at all.

 Everything in this game feels like devs gathered, got high and had some fun time in making this inconsistent, confused and SUPER dumbed-down delirium of a game. C'mon, it's Bioware -they just don't make bad games. It's either that or everything has a  price, even them. 
 
 Anyway, I hope for ultra cRPG DA3. And hope dies last.

LOL I like the way you think! Sneaky......if you were a character, you'd be a rogue!

Mages, but sneaky ones

[Anoneemouse]

This thread is titled perfectly and Bioware can wear it.

They act illegally.

Unadvertised DRM is included, and they have shutdown someones fair use of a product, legally purchased, because they dont like the message.

Try doing that on a mass scale and see what happens. These guys are shutting down threads and users everywhere in an effort to stamp out spot fires caused by their actions.

Boycott their products everywhere.

[topster88]

ginger76 wrote...

Reva-C wrote...

ginger76 wrote...

 I have a conspiracy theory. Maybe DA2 is sacrificial lamb in order to achieve the greater good?  Because Bioware is so big and they CAN make a crapy game just to show EA: see, this happens when you push us too far - I just don't see how this could sell better than DAO. Or even close. **** I don't see how this could sell at all.

 Everything in this game feels like devs gathered, got high and had some fun time in making this inconsistent, confused and SUPER dumbed-down delirium of a game. C'mon, it's Bioware -they just don't make bad games. It's either that or everything has a  price, even them. 
 
 Anyway, I hope for ultra cRPG DA3. And hope dies last.

LOL I like the way you think! Sneaky......if you were a character, you'd be a rogue!

Mages, but sneaky ones

I must admit, your explanation for EA's actions is the most logical I've yet to see.

[ItsToofy]

Kabraxal wrote...

ItsToofy wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

You are still wrong... the only real difference from Origins into this game is that you can't equip party members with armour and choose a different race.  O no... that is all that made DAO a traditional RPG... not choosing a class, not having customisation for the PC, not having customisation options for party abilities, not having the branching choices.... . 

Sorry, but DA2 is a traditional RPG for the most part. And this coming from someone that prefers Origins.

Traditional RPG = action adventure now I guess.

The fact that you are even arguing that DA2 is more action adventure than an RPG makes it very easy to dismiss your opinion as irrelivant ranting.  Thank you.

Oh boy, here we go....ok, what I was referring to was everything you had claimed to be removed is gearing a game towards the action adventure genre and away from the RPG genre. You seem to be ok with defending about 5 features removed from the game, I don't really think they added anything to compensate for this loss, so you may call it irellelvent ranting, I call it a quality observation...this game is a step backwards and towards a differant genre altogether, is it still an RPG? barely, but even action adventure games have introduced a leveling system somewhere along the line, and this game pretty much has loot, dialogue options and a leveling system. Just about the basics in terms of RPGs go.

[Anoneemouse]

Its a big bucket of slop served with gravy

[Anoneemouse]

This thread is titled perfectly and Bioware can wear it.

They act illegally.

Unadvertised DRM is included, and they have shutdown someones fair use of a product, legally purchased, because they dont like the message.

Try doing that on a mass scale and see what happens. These guys are shutting down threads and users everywhere in an effort to stamp out spot fires caused by their actions.

Boycott their products everywhere.

[topster88]

Anoneemouse wrote...

This thread is titled perfectly and Bioware can wear it.

They act illegally.

Unadvertised DRM is included, and they have shutdown someones fair use of a product, legally purchased, because they dont like the message.

Try doing that on a mass scale and see what happens. These guys are shutting down threads and users everywhere in an effort to stamp out spot fires caused by their actions.

Boycott their products everywhere.

Dude you've already posted this like 4 times

[Shifty Assassin]

i couldnt agree with OP more....

[Ben_c1987]

topster88 wrote...

BioWare once said that merging with EA would not affect the quality of their games. Well it has, unquestionably. This game had the potential to be great. It has great writing, great voice acting, a great engine, and a great mythos.

That's why it's such a horrible shame that this game wound up only being decent. The levels are painfully overused and copy-pasted. The combat is less methodical and more hack-and-slash. We only have one city to explore. The story is disjointed. Hawke has 'Shepard syndrome" where he often wouldn't say anything similar to the dialogue choice you select. The moral choices are the focal point of the game, but aren't the least bit ambiguous. You are limited to what you can equip allies with so the majority of the equipment you get is useless for the class you selected. There are numerous bugs that should never have made it past playtesting.

In EA's wish to make Dragon Age more approachable, much of what made Origins great was taken away and replaced with shallow game mechanics. They rushed this game to capitalize on Origin's success, success that is thanks to people who very much enjoyed the traditional RPG elements that were removed in favor of a more casual flavor. Origins was not perfect, but this is a prime example of a company completely misreading why a game was successful in the first place and simply marketing it to the lowest common denominator in hopes that lightning would strike again.

Let the casual players have Mass Effect. Please bring Dragon Age back to the traditional side.

Completely agree and confirms what I keep saying about EA in general they spend so much time trying to make things look nice, polished and flashy they forget to actually make a game people want to play.   

[Gatt9]

Kabraxal wrote...

ginger76 wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

You are still wrong... the only real difference from Origins into this game is that you can't equip party members with armour and choose a different race.  O no... that is all that made DAO a traditional RPG... not choosing a class, not having customisation for the PC, not having customisation options for party abilities, not having the branching choices.... yep, those other two things are the only things that matter. 

Sorry, but DA2 is a traditional RPG for the most part. And this coming from someone that prefers Origins.

Just curious: what other "RPG's" have you played? At least google a bit before trying to sound like you know what you're talking about.

Every Bethesda game from the beginning, Diablo, Deus Ex, Origins, Mass Effect, Planescape Torment, pen and paper RPGs from varying companies, Vampire the Masquerade (pen and paper and the PC game), JRPGs, the Witcher, Two Worlds, Risen... I can go on.  But I sense you would rather your childish argument be believed so maybe I'll stop showing that I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Really, hurts when someone who is well versed in RPGs doesn't agree with your childish tantrums about this game, doesn't it?

 I just have to point out,  Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect,  and Deus Ex are routinely debated as not being RPGs.  Diablo is routinely pegged into the Hack & Slash "Barely an RPG" role that JRPG's sit in.

So I'd really have to question how "Well versed" you are when you picked the titles least likely to be called RPGs by people who play PnP RPGs.

Considering that you also chose those names over widely regarded incredible RPGs such as: Baldur's Gate series,  Icewind Dale,  Fallout, and Ultima, leads me to believe that you just threw together a list of games you've heard of.  As to be able to play TES: Arena,  you could not have missed those classics.

Modifié par Gatt9, 12 mars 2011 - 01:48 .

[topster88]

Gatt9 wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

ginger76 wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

You are still wrong... the only real difference from Origins into this game is that you can't equip party members with armour and choose a different race.  O no... that is all that made DAO a traditional RPG... not choosing a class, not having customisation for the PC, not having customisation options for party abilities, not having the branching choices.... yep, those other two things are the only things that matter. 

Sorry, but DA2 is a traditional RPG for the most part. And this coming from someone that prefers Origins.

Just curious: what other "RPG's" have you played? At least google a bit before trying to sound like you know what you're talking about.

Every Bethesda game from the beginning, Diablo, Deus Ex, Origins, Mass Effect, Planescape Torment, pen and paper RPGs from varying companies, Vampire the Masquerade (pen and paper and the PC game), JRPGs, the Witcher, Two Worlds, Risen... I can go on.  But I sense you would rather your childish argument be believed so maybe I'll stop showing that I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Really, hurts when someone who is well versed in RPGs doesn't agree with your childish tantrums about this game, doesn't it?

 I just have to point out,  Oblivion, Fallout 3, Mass Effect,  and Deus Ex are routinely debated as not being RPGs.  Diablo is routinely pegged into the Hack & Slash "Barely an RPG" role that JRPG's sit in.

So I'd really have to question how "Well versed" you are when you picked the titles least likely to be called RPGs by people who play PnP RPGs.

Considering that you also chose those names over widely regarded incredible RPGs such as: Baldur's Gate series,  Icewind Dale,  Fallout, and Ultima, leads me to believe that you just threw together a list of games you've heard of.  As to be able to play TES: Arena,  you could not have missed those classics.

Also no KotOR? The hell?

[dbfandillyjam]

I like RPG's a lot but since I own DA2 on console I prefer the new battle system. It gives me more control and it's not like it takes away from the story which in my opinion is one of the most important elements in an RPG. I also find you choice in thread title offensive and overly cruel and trollish.

[topster88]

Kabraxal wrote...

Every Bethesda game from the beginning, Diablo, Deus Ex, Origins, Mass Effect, Planescape Torment, pen and paper RPGs from varying companies, Vampire the Masquerade (pen and paper and the PC game), JRPGs, the Witcher, Two Worlds, Risen... I can go on.  But I sense you would rather your childish argument be believed so maybe I'll stop showing that I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Really, hurts when someone who is well versed in RPGs doesn't agree with your childish tantrums about this game, doesn't it?

It's so ironic how you're accusing everyone else of being childish while you are the one with the most inflammatory posts.

[ginger76]

[quote]Kabraxal wrote...

[quote]ginger76 wrote...

[quote]Kabraxal wrote...

[/quote]

You are still wrong... the only real difference from Origins into this game is that you can't equip party members with armour and choose a different race.  O no... that is all that made DAO a traditional RPG... not choosing a class, not having customisation for the PC, not having customisation options for party abilities, not having the branching choices.... yep, those other two things are the only things that matter. 

Sorry, but DA2 is a traditional RPG for the most part. And this coming from someone that prefers Origins. [/quote]

Just curious: what other "RPG's" have you played? At least google a bit before trying to sound like you know what you're talking about.[/quote]

Every Bethesda game from the beginning, Diablo, Deus Ex, Origins, Mass Effect, Planescape Torment, pen and paper RPGs from varying companies, Vampire the Masquerade (pen and paper and the PC game), JRPGs, the Witcher, Two Worlds, Risen... I can go on.  But I sense you would rather your childish argument be believed so maybe I'll stop showing that I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Really, hurts when someone who is well versed in RPGs doesn't agree with your childish tantrums about this game, doesn't it?[/quote]
[/quote]

Don't put Planescape Torment and DA2 in the same context, please.

Modifié par ginger76, 12 mars 2011 - 01:55 .

[Kabraxal]

ItsToofy wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

ItsToofy wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

You are still wrong... the only real difference from Origins into this game is that you can't equip party members with armour and choose a different race.  O no... that is all that made DAO a traditional RPG... not choosing a class, not having customisation for the PC, not having customisation options for party abilities, not having the branching choices.... . 

Sorry, but DA2 is a traditional RPG for the most part. And this coming from someone that prefers Origins.

Traditional RPG = action adventure now I guess.

The fact that you are even arguing that DA2 is more action adventure than an RPG makes it very easy to dismiss your opinion as irrelivant ranting.  Thank you.

Oh boy, here we go....ok, what I was referring to was everything you had claimed to be removed is gearing a game towards the action adventure genre and away from the RPG genre. You seem to be ok with defending about 5 features removed from the game, I don't really think they added anything to compensate for this loss, so you may call it irellelvent ranting, I call it a quality observation...this game is a step backwards and towards a differant genre altogether, is it still an RPG? barely, but even action adventure games have introduced a leveling system somewhere along the line, and this game pretty much has loot, dialogue options and a leveling system. Just about the basics in terms of RPGs go.

Let's see... the console versions of DA2 play better than Origins while the PC version plays almost the same.  And combat has little to do with making an RPG an RPG... it is the underlying build of stats and abilities which DA2 still maintains close ties to Origins.  So, that feature really wasn't removed.

They removed the ability to choose race, but you can still make the character any of the same classes from the first game with a hefty amount of customisation of abilities and weapons.  Given that the lack of race choice is more story driven, again you lost something merely illusory at the moment with everything else still remaining.

They removed the ability to customise Companion armour.  True, a sacrifice of customisation.  But it hardly lessens the RPGness of DA2.

Lack of the Origins dialogue tree and being able to talk everywhere.  Another sacrifice, and one that even I will admit I prefer Origins over DA2 in this respect.  However, you still have a lot of dialogue, dialogue options, and character interaction.  Different method of delivery, but you still have the choices available to you that affect the story.

Really, most of the supposed "dumbed down" arguments I have seen on this forum and elsewhere is nothing more than frivolous ranting.  There are a few points to be made, but the lengths people have gone have taken the legitimate criticism and drowned it out with petulant and ridiculous whining. 

[Ben_c1987]

dbfandillyjam wrote...

I like RPG's a lot but since I own DA2 on console I prefer the new battle system. It gives me more control and it's not like it takes away from the story which in my opinion is one of the most important elements in an RPG. I also find you choice in thread title offensive and overly cruel and trollish.

Well I own DAO2 on console and I think its battle system sucks.

[Kabraxal]

topster88 wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Every Bethesda game from the beginning, Diablo, Deus Ex, Origins, Mass Effect, Planescape Torment, pen and paper RPGs from varying companies, Vampire the Masquerade (pen and paper and the PC game), JRPGs, the Witcher, Two Worlds, Risen... I can go on.  But I sense you would rather your childish argument be believed so maybe I'll stop showing that I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Really, hurts when someone who is well versed in RPGs doesn't agree with your childish tantrums about this game, doesn't it?

It's so ironic how you're accusing everyone else of being childish while you are the one with the most inflammatory posts.

Yeah, cause called EA a cancer is just so totally mature. 

As for Planescape and DA2 in the same conversation... I can and I will.  I never said which was better as a game or RPG, but both are RPGs.  Get over it.

[_genetix_]

honestly, this argument of OP is very good.

Although, considering our history it took great team to build some of the finest quality RPGs for computer systems and only 1 mind to create the legend. Something like blaming publisher is one thing which I understand, but only to the point of pushing product to multiple platforms saying to developer it is all the same while PC is still light years ahead of time and always will be from consoles (even, if today would be release date of next generation console it would still be behind).

As for ****ing on DRM is pretty much none sense there's always some intelligent person to break DRM why it's put in the games in the first place is just stupidity maybe, but in good scenario it actually might give few days to sell the product in fate to believe that 'Since they can't pirate it they would want it inside those few days'. Which all in all sure as hell haven't apply since Starforce early days when this time was months just maybe on something like Ubi DRM recording server keys is another case currently, but this system yet again has so SO many issues on it's own that it's absolutely horrified (ex. HAWX 2).

Funny, all that DRM stuff in a sense that these people are willing to do light years of tech. support WORK for to support issues for protections which affects only few days which all this FORCE could be applied from publishers side to do tech. support and customer helping to release quality data instead of crap.

Modifié par _genetix_, 12 mars 2011 - 01:56 .

[Arontala22]

Anoneemouse wrote...

This thread is titled perfectly and Bioware can wear it.

They act illegally.

Unadvertised DRM is included, and they have shutdown someones fair use of a product, legally purchased, because they dont like the message.

Try doing that on a mass scale and see what happens. These guys are shutting down threads and users everywhere in an effort to stamp out spot fires caused by their actions.

Boycott their products everywhere.

First of all, shut up. No need to make that many repeats of the same post. ( Although it could have been a mistake, so if it was, i apologize. ) Secondly, the guy getting perma banned and being unable to play was a mistake on EA's part, which has been rectified.

[ginger76]

Kabraxal, you really need to take a deep breath/pill/nap and relax. My brother have also paid for the game but he's taking that fact much better than you.

[DownyTif]

Agree with OP.

[topster88]

Kabraxal wrote...

Let's see... the console versions of DA2 play better than Origins while the PC version plays almost the same.  And combat has little to do with making an RPG an RPG... it is the underlying build of stats and abilities which DA2 still maintains close ties to Origins.  So, that feature really wasn't removed.

Not really. The inability to customize stats much with equipment in DA2 is a serious detriment to combat. Fenris for example is doomed to have relatively low armor for a warrior. Also refer to my post of how combat encounters are handled; having waves of enemies that attack the closest enemy (read: mages and archers) is a huge problem on hard mode and it's almost impossible to have the tank get threat on them before enemies can do serious damage to your allies.

They removed the ability to choose race, but you can still make the character any of the same classes from the first game with a hefty amount of customisation of abilities and weapons.  Given that the lack of race choice is more story driven, again you lost something merely illusory at the moment with everything else still remaining.

I didn't bring up race in the OP but yes that's a detriment to people who like variety. Having you human seemed like a lazy way to not have to write more than one script for some scenes.

They removed the ability to customise Companion armour.  True, a sacrifice of customisation.  But it hardly lessens the RPGness of DA2.

As far as traditional RPG's go, yes, it does.

Lack of the Origins dialogue tree and being able to talk everywhere.  Another sacrifice, and one that even I will admit I prefer Origins over DA2 in this respect.  However, you still have a lot of dialogue, dialogue options, and character interaction.  Different method of delivery, but you still have the choices available to you that affect the story.

Being able to talk to your companions only when the plot deems it necessary makes simple communication seem very restrictive. It's not a very organic-feeling when you have to wait for a quest to arbitrarily pop up in your journal just to be able to chat with your friend.

Really, most of the supposed "dumbed down" arguments I have seen on this forum and elsewhere is nothing more than frivolous ranting.  There are a few points to be made, but the lengths people have gone have taken the legitimate criticism and drowned it out with petulant and ridiculous whining. 

if you think this is a frivelous rant, you haven't been paying attention. Yes, this game is an RPG in that you do, in fact, role play, however much of the charm of Origins was how it was a throwback to a traditional RPG. It wasn't necessarily like KotOR where they used a d20 system, but it was relatively traditional and people liked that about it.

Modifié par topster88, 12 mars 2011 - 02:08 .

[topster88]

Kabraxal wrote...

Yeah, cause called EA a cancer is just so totally mature. 

Would you prefer the title be "EA has a long history of taking the proverbial heads of good developers and holding them in a bathtup full of water until the bubbles stop"?