221 réponses à ce sujet

[Gorescream]

Arontala22 wrote...
Secondly, the guy getting perma banned and being unable to play was a mistake on EA's part, which has been rectified.

Sauce plz!

[Panicomatic]

I was really on the fence about purchasing this game. Some of the changes scared me. I think it's safe to assume I've made up my mind now. On one hand I've played amazing bioware games, including Baldur's gate, KOTOR, ME1 & 2, and DA:O. And then I made the mistake of buying DLC for Dragon Age and also purchased DA awakening. I can't help buy feel like any recent bioware releases have been anything more then a mere money grab. It pains me to think it. I have such great hopes for ME3 and TOR. If the ball is dropped with these games in the similar fashion it was with DA2, I will lose any love I had for Bioware and its parent EA.

[lx_theo]

Wow, so many thongs wrong with this thread, mainly the first post and title. EA has brought down the quality some. Unfortunately DA2 was rushed to meet the release, and simple stuff like that have hurt it.

But guess what? The game is still great!

[Arontala22]

Gorescream wrote...

Arontala22 wrote...
Secondly, the guy getting perma banned and being unable to play was a mistake on EA's part, which has been rectified.

Sauce plz!

I am unfamiliar with this meme. PlOx enlighten meh, mah home brah mudkipz loverzzz.

Seriously, though, I don't know what this means. Do you mean source? If so, you merely have to look at the bioware posts on the "You cannot in good faith limit a persons ability to play a game because of a forum post" thread.

Modifié par Arontala22, 12 mars 2011 - 02:30 .

[Kabraxal]

topster88 wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Let's see... the console versions of DA2 play better than Origins while the PC version plays almost the same.  And combat has little to do with making an RPG an RPG... it is the underlying build of stats and abilities which DA2 still maintains close ties to Origins.  So, that feature really wasn't removed.

Not really. The inability to customize stats much with equipment in DA2 is a serious detriment to combat. Fenris for example is doomed to have relatively low armor for a warrior. Also refer to my post of how combat encounters are handled; having waves of enemies that attack the closest enemy (read: mages and archers) is a huge problem on hard mode and it's almost impossible to have the tank get threat on them before enemies can do serious damage to your allies.

They removed the ability to choose race, but you can still make the character any of the same classes from the first game with a hefty amount of customisation of abilities and weapons.  Given that the lack of race choice is more story driven, again you lost something merely illusory at the moment with everything else still remaining.

I didn't bring up race in the OP but yes that's a detriment to people who like variety. Having you human seemed like a lazy way to not have to write more than one script for some scenes.

They removed the ability to customise Companion armour.  True, a sacrifice of customisation.  But it hardly lessens the RPGness of DA2.

As far as traditional RPG's go, yes, it does.

Lack of the Origins dialogue tree and being able to talk everywhere.  Another sacrifice, and one that even I will admit I prefer Origins over DA2 in this respect.  However, you still have a lot of dialogue, dialogue options, and character interaction.  Different method of delivery, but you still have the choices available to you that affect the story.

Being able to talk to your companions only when the plot deems it necessary makes it very restrictive. It's not a very fluid communication when you have to wait for a quest to arbitrarily pop up in your journal just to be able to chat with your friend.

Really, most of the supposed "dumbed down" arguments I have seen on this forum and elsewhere is nothing more than frivolous ranting.  There are a few points to be made, but the lengths people have gone have taken the legitimate criticism and drowned it out with petulant and ridiculous whining. 

if you think this is a frivelous rant, you haven't been paying attention. Yes, this game is an RPG in that you do, in fact, role play, however much of the charm of Origins was how it was a throwback to a traditional RPG. It wasn't necessarily like KotOR where they used a d20 system, but it was relatively traditional and people liked that about it.

Funny... being able to customise companions in any ways is now traditional.  Huh, my friends didn't tell me that when I started pen and paper RPGs...... and I really could have customised them well too.

As for Hawke being human... given the narrative structure of the story, it makes sense why you can't make Hawke any race you please.  Can't discuss the spoilers, but it becomes quite clear just by playing the game.  I'd rather them worry about narrative cohesion than the silly desire to let you play as any race you want.  It would not have worked for this game... it would have been forced at best.

And I already agreed that the option to interact with companions left me a bit dissapointed.  I will not agree that having many instances being plot bound makes it less traditional.  Especially since many Bioware RPGs have been less free than DAO in that respect.  Let's not forget that many WRPGS have few to no companions in the Bioware mold period.  So traditional here is basically a take your pic. 

[Arontala22]

The hell is wrong with quoting/editing on this site?

Modifié par Arontala22, 12 mars 2011 - 02:21 .

[Covi]

It appears that the big publishers buy famous developers only to exploit their brand names for a few rushed games and until their reputation is ruined. Only the immediate profit seems important, not the long-term health of a company.

[Ben_c1987]

topster88 wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Yeah, cause called EA a cancer is just so totally mature. 

Would you prefer the title be "EA has a long history of taking the proverbial heads of good developers and holding them in a bathtup full of water until the bubbles stop"?

Anything said about EA is fair. They are the absolute worst game production company ever. They made their initial capital churning out sports titles in the early years, titles they knew people would buy regardless of how utterly rubbish there were just because they had all the official licensing (FIFA, NFL, NBA etc etc 1990 - present day). Then once they had big capital behind them they started taking over other smaller productions who actually knew how to make good games and imposed their incompetent mentality upon them. There only experiences of making games from that background is copy and paste the same title, re-badge and make it look nice. Come the turn of 2000 when questions started been asked about their game play they started to attempt to 'simplify' all their games to make them 'more accessible' to the wider market. Now by wider market what were actually taking about here are the brain-dead and moronic children of the residuum. So now there tact is to strip down anything tactical, original and generally good from original titles and turn them into a EA clone product by the second installment.  Oh and with their sports titles tact has been to copy gameplay aspects from rivals such as Konami who have been beating them consistantly on soccer/football gameplay for a number of years.

[topster88]

Kabraxal wrote...

Funny... being able to customise companions in any ways is now traditional.  Huh, my friends didn't tell me that when I started pen and paper RPGs...... and I really could have customised them well too.

Maybe it's your grammar, but are you suggesting that p&prpgs don;t have a lot of customization? if so, what the hell kind of games are you playing?

As for Hawke being human... given the narrative structure of the story, it makes sense why you can't make Hawke any race you please.  Can't discuss the spoilers, but it becomes quite clear just by playing the game.  I'd rather them worry about narrative cohesion than the silly desire to let you play as any race you want.  It would not have worked for this game... it would have been forced at best.

Why, because an elf wouldn't be able to live in Hightown? that didn't seem to stop Fenris. How would the game be any different if Hawke and his family were dwarves instead? Anyway, Origins managed to pull this off and all the races' stories wound up in the same plot anyway, so I dont see how it could have caused too many problems. It seems much mroe likely that BW wanted a DA equivalent of Shepard.

And I already agreed that the option to interact with companions left me a bit dissapointed.  I will not agree that having many instances being plot bound makes it less traditional.  Especially since many Bioware RPGs have been less free than DAO in that respect.  Let's not forget that many WRPGS have few to no companions in the Bioware mold period.  So traditional here is basically a take your pic.

I never said it made it less traditional, I said it made it restrictive.

[Nyuneko]

Personally, I agree. I never quite understood the need to have a publisher who do nothing but reap the reward from those who rightly deserve it(pretty sure I read somewhere that developers don't get as much a cut as the publishers), then suppresses their creativity and ruining the party for everyone.

But in reality, I don't know, I'm not an expert on how the industry works, as I have said, I don't even know what a publisher does exactly(other than stealing from the dev and suppressing them), but... they fund dev like Bioware on their projects, no? So without them, we might not even have Bioware now, even though right now, Bioware may or may not be the Bioware that you wanted(opinion, it's an amazing thing).

So, while I agree that publishers, not just EA, is the cancer to the industry, but unless someone can reform the game industry so we could get rid of the middleman, they will always be there. Which is why I enjoy the recent rise of the indie industry, they seem to have a lot more freedom in what they do, they don't have to make games that appeal to the masses, they could have difficulty that only pro gamers can handle, they could have crazily niche story/art, etc... but, they also don't have the budget to produce big titles like DA or ME.

Again, you should just vote with your wallet, posting on Bioware forums then proceed to buy their game at full price won't help your cause, the publishers don't read the forums, they don't have to listen to their customer, when their games are selling like hotcakes, how can you blame them for doing the same again for more money? Afterall, this world isn't run on good will, honour and prayers, you need money to actually survive.

With that said, I am getting DA2 day one because I don't hate the game, I will miss the origins, and tbh, Bioware should have gone and try to make each origin stronger, playing a more major part in the story, so we get 6 vastly different experience instead of some subtle differences like being refered to as an elf or human... But that's another story for a different day.

[Massefeckt]

Aermas wrote...

Drogo45 wrote...

Aermas wrote...

Drogo45 wrote...

You are wrong - and in the end, will be proven so.

I am sorry Khal, but that is an opinion.

So are you.

I am not an opinion. I am a person

I'm not an opinon, I'm a free man!!


Anyway my anger for the game and it's circumstances have faded into a general sadness and disappointment of yet another company being bought out and degraded to a shadow of it's former self. Though they'll still get my money for ME3 because I'm a ME ****. Damn my lack of principles!

It's just sad. We have ME that does this kind of gaming and does it far far better than DA2 does. I love ME 1&2 and will most likely love 3 and as soon as I finish it I will start to pray they make another series in the ME universe. BUT! Origins was enjoyable because it was different, call it more traditional, more intellectual whatever I don't really care but it was different. If DA is to become a bad ME clone with swords then I don't need that I have ME I dont need a lesser version.

Bioware had two markets here they could exploit now they only have one. I will as I said buy ME3 but unless theres some huge reversal of direction with Dragon Age I won't be bothering with 3 or any DLC theres no point I have the far superior ME games to concentrate on. My reasons for buying and enjoying DA got taken out.

[Kabraxal]

topster88 wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Funny... being able to customise companions in any ways is now traditional.  Huh, my friends didn't tell me that when I started pen and paper RPGs...... and I really could have customised them well too.

Maybe it's your grammar, but are you suggesting that p&prpgs don;t have a lot of customization? if so, what the hell kind of games are you playing?

As for Hawke being human... given the narrative structure of the story, it makes sense why you can't make Hawke any race you please.  Can't discuss the spoilers, but it becomes quite clear just by playing the game.  I'd rather them worry about narrative cohesion than the silly desire to let you play as any race you want.  It would not have worked for this game... it would have been forced at best.

Why, because an elf wouldn't be able to live in Hightown? that didn't seem to stop Fenris. How would the game be any different if Hawke and his family were dwarves instead? Anyway, Origins managed to pull this off and all the races' stories wound up in the same plot anyway, so I dont see how it could have caused too many problems. It seems much mroe likely that BW wanted a DA equivalent of Shepard.

And I already agreed that the option to interact with companions left me a bit dissapointed.  I will not agree that having many instances being plot bound makes it less traditional.  Especially since many Bioware RPGs have been less free than DAO in that respect.  Let's not forget that many WRPGS have few to no companions in the Bioware mold period.  So traditional here is basically a take your pic.

I never said it made it less traditional, I said it made it restrictive.

My companions in pen and paper games were all friend controlled and created, or an NPC designed by the DM.  Really, aside from a sibling or a pet/familiar, most customisation in the traditional first RPG was primarily done for one character that you controlled unless you were the DM.

And given the rise to Hightown and the circumstances of Hawke's life and backhistory, yeah... elf would make no sense given the nature of the racial divide. 

[djackson75]

Ben_c1987 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Yeah, cause called EA a cancer is just so totally mature. 

Would you prefer the title be "EA has a long history of taking the proverbial heads of good developers and holding them in a bathtup full of water until the bubbles stop"?

Anything said about EA is fair. They are the absolute worst game production company ever. They made their initial capital churning out sports titles in the early years, titles they knew people would buy regardless of how utterly rubbish there were just because they had all the official licensing (FIFA, NFL, NBA etc etc 1990 - present day). Then once they had big capital behind them they started taking over other smaller productions who actually knew how to make good games and imposed their incompetent mentality upon them. There only experiences of making games from that background is copy and paste the same title, re-badge and make it look nice. Come the turn of 2000 when questions started been asked about their game play they started to attempt to 'simplify' all their games to make them 'more accessible' to the wider market. Now by wider market what were actually taking about here are the brain-dead and moronic children of the residuum. So now there tact is to strip down anything tactical, original and generally good from original titles and turn them into a EA clone product by the second installment.  Oh and with their sports titles tact has been to copy gameplay aspects from rivals such as Konami who have been beating them consistantly on soccer/football gameplay for a number of years.

I like:

Mirror's Edge
Dead Space
Dead Space 2
The new Need for Speed
Brutal Legend
Battlefield Bad Company 2
Battlefield 3 looks amazing so far
Deathspank is cool
Bulletstorm is good for what it is
The Command and Conquer Series
Lord of the Rings BFME games
--------

That's a pretty good list, I'm just saying.... That's discounting Origins and the ME games... as well as the fact that they have published Orange Box and Left 4 Dead on the consoles..

[ginger76]

Kabraxal wrote...

Funny... being able to customise companions in any ways is now traditional.  Huh, my friends didn't tell me that when I started pen and paper RPGs...... and I really could have customised them well too.

So you have been playing pen and paper RPGs...only with yourself? I have been GM since my husband was my boyfriend and I'm speechless... wow...how can you compare...wow...nevermind.

[NapalmNed_]

OP and ItsToofy keep putting up the good fight guys. I really do think people that call it "Action Adventure" really are exagerating too much though. That's more like Final Fantasy. No doubt in my mind it's an RPG. I enjoy it I really do. It's not as good as DA:O but it's entertaining to a good degree. I am really sad that they did a "Mass Age" on this (Turned Dragon Age into something allot like Mass Effect) But the repetative level designs and simpler conversations deffinately make it allot more annoying to play through.
I also want to point out Dragon Age 2 is deffinately a better game than Baulders Gate 2. At the TIME Baulders Gate 2 was mind blowing. But really to todays standards it can't be compared. If were going all time favorites I'm going Neverwinter Nights. God, I loved that game. Minus the mind numbing DnD combat system. (It was fun at first but after a few days of playing I wanted to shoot myself)

[topster88]

Kabraxal wrote...

My companions in pen and paper games were all friend controlled and created, or an NPC designed by the DM.  Really, aside from a sibling or a pet/familiar, most customisation in the traditional first RPG was primarily done for one character that you controlled unless you were the DM.

Lol, what? Just because the DM controls them doesn't mean that he/she won't be able to use a piece of armor you find in a dungeon. I seriously doubt a DM will say "No, my fighter will not put on that +3 masterwork plate armor because he can only recieve armor UPGRADES that you have to purchase yourself and will wind up not being anywhere near as good as the armor we found"

And given the rise to Hightown and the circumstances of Hawke's life and backhistory, yeah... elf would make no sense given the nature of the racial divide. 

Fenris is a runaway slave and he lives in Hightown for years without issue. How wouldn't being an elf work again?

[Ben_c1987]

djackson75 wrote...

Ben_c1987 wrote...

topster88 wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Yeah, cause called EA a cancer is just so totally mature. 

Would you prefer the title be "EA has a long history of taking the proverbial heads of good developers and holding them in a bathtup full of water until the bubbles stop"?

Anything said about EA is fair. They are the absolute worst game production company ever. They made their initial capital churning out sports titles in the early years, titles they knew people would buy regardless of how utterly rubbish there were just because they had all the official licensing (FIFA, NFL, NBA etc etc 1990 - present day). Then once they had big capital behind them they started taking over other smaller productions who actually knew how to make good games and imposed their incompetent mentality upon them. There only experiences of making games from that background is copy and paste the same title, re-badge and make it look nice. Come the turn of 2000 when questions started been asked about their game play they started to attempt to 'simplify' all their games to make them 'more accessible' to the wider market. Now by wider market what were actually taking about here are the brain-dead and moronic children of the residuum. So now there tact is to strip down anything tactical, original and generally good from original titles and turn them into a EA clone product by the second installment.  Oh and with their sports titles tact has been to copy gameplay aspects from rivals such as Konami who have been beating them consistantly on soccer/football gameplay for a number of years.

I like:

Mirror's Edge
Dead Space
Dead Space 2
The new Need for Speed
Brutal Legend
Battlefield Bad Company 2
Battlefield 3 looks amazing so far
Deathspank is cool
Bulletstorm is good for what it is
The Command and Conquer Series
Lord of the Rings BFME games
--------

That's a pretty good list, I'm just saying.... That's discounting Origins and the ME games... as well as the fact that they have published Orange Box and Left 4 Dead on the consoles..

The majority of those titles were not originally EA's.  Espescially the command & conquer series which EA has brought way down hill since they came into it.  The last C&C Red Altert 3 was aweful compared with previous titles where EA were not involved.

Modifié par Ben_c1987, 12 mars 2011 - 02:43 .

[topster88]

djackson75 wrote...

I like:

Mirror's Edge
Dead Space
Dead Space 2
The new Need for Speed
Brutal Legend
Battlefield Bad Company 2
Battlefield 3 looks amazing so far
Deathspank is cool
Bulletstorm is good for what it is
The Command and Conquer Series
Lord of the Rings BFME games
--------

That's a pretty good list, I'm just saying.... That's discounting Origins and the ME games... as well as the fact that they have published Orange Box and Left 4 Dead on the consoles..

Do you understand just how much EA demolished the C&C series after tey aquired (edit) WESTwood?

Modifié par topster88, 12 mars 2011 - 02:45 .

[Forsakerr]

topster88 wrote...

Do you understand just how much EA demolished the C&C series after tey aquired Whitewood?

it's Westwood ,and yup they completely killed one of my favorite series

Modifié par Forsakerr, 12 mars 2011 - 02:45 .

[arb608]

it is still a good game but nowhere near as good as I was expecting and neither was it as good DAO. it does feel like they just rushed it, so far I havn't seen any impact of the choices I made in dao, except when they mention stuff when you are walking around, If they are bringing out a DA 3, they need to do alot of work to make up for this game if I am even going to consider buying it.

[ItsToofy]

NapalmNed wrote...

OP and ItsToofy keep putting up the good fight guys. I really do think people that call it "Action Adventure" really are exagerating too much though. That's more like Final Fantasy. No doubt in my mind it's an RPG. I enjoy it I really do. It's not as good as DA:O but it's entertaining to a good degree. I am really sad that they did a "Mass Age" on this (Turned Dragon Age into something allot like Mass Effect) But the repetative level designs and simpler conversations deffinately make it allot more annoying to play through.
I also want to point out Dragon Age 2 is deffinately a better game than Baulders Gate 2. At the TIME Baulders Gate 2 was mind blowing. But really to todays standards it can't be compared. If were going all time favorites I'm going Neverwinter Nights. God, I loved that game. Minus the mind numbing DnD combat system. (It was fun at first but after a few days of playing I wanted to shoot myself)

Here's the thing though, you know what Baldur's Gate 2 do that Dragon Age 2 didn't? It improved the game without sacrificing what made the game what it was to begin with.

How can anyone say "They removed X, Y and Z features but its still a good game" actually LIVE with a sequel that has been STRIPPED of the original quality?

It's like wearing a pair of Oakleys and then buying a fake pair off the street for the same price and saying "ohh these are much better", when in fact you were just ripped off hard

[Wishpig]

cosgamer wrote...

ManiacalEvil wrote...

topster88 wrote...

RedEyesOfWarning wrote...

Personally I thought the "one click, one attack" thing was more traditional than the last one, reminded me of Diablo far more than say Devil May Cry. I didn't really remember any official word that Mass Effect was for casual players only either... I thought it was for FPS fans only.

As far as RPGs go, Mass Effect is very, very casual. Especially ME2.

And what exactly is wrong with that? WHy is casual taken as crappy nowadays?

Because casual is crappy: lazy, generic, uninteresting, unchallenging.

It is DA 2.

I disagree...

Casual is something that's both accessible, easy to jump into, and easy to jump out of.

A non-casual game can be just as crappy, lazy, generic, uniteresting, and unchallenging as a casual game... there's just FAR LESS non-casual games because there's less money in them so it seems like they suck more.

Take angry birds for example. The levels are extremely well thought out, the devs are constantly working their bums off and selling their stuff for real cheap, the art direction and goofiness of it all is very intresting, and it can be damn challenging. AND it's the definition of a casual game.

Obviously that's on the extreme end of the casual game spectrum, and Dragon Age 2 is clearly much closer to a non-casual game than angry birds (and don't insert some lame *no it isn't* jab).

No on the other extreme side of the spectrum lets look at Elven Legacy. Haven't heard of it... yeah there's a reason for that. It's a fairly complex hexigon based strat game. It's not easy to get into, designed for PC gamers, it's lazy looking, it's generic, it's unintresting, and it sucks.

Being casual and non-casual is not the problem... it's the devs that are the problem. Any game, casual or complex, can be amazing or suck. It's the people behind the making of it that determine how good it is.

Modifié par Wishpig, 12 mars 2011 - 02:55 .

[Kabraxal]

topster88 wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

My companions in pen and paper games were all friend controlled and created, or an NPC designed by the DM.  Really, aside from a sibling or a pet/familiar, most customisation in the traditional first RPG was primarily done for one character that you controlled unless you were the DM.

Lol, what? Just because the DM controls them doesn't mean that he/she won't be able to use a piece of armor you find in a dungeon. I seriously doubt a DM will say "No, my fighter will not put on that +3 masterwork plate armor because he can only recieve armor UPGRADES that you have to purchase yourself and will wind up not being anywhere near as good as the armor we found"

And given the rise to Hightown and the circumstances of Hawke's life and backhistory, yeah... elf would make no sense given the nature of the racial divide. 

Fenris is a runaway slave and he lives in Hightown for years without issue. How wouldn't being an elf work again?

Out of a group of ten friends, we had few DM controlled companions.  Sometimes we gave suggestions, but it wasn't an "essential" part of the experience.  We were are the character we controlled, not an entire band of characters, that is what a true RPG is about.  Given that, any Bioware RPG maintains that core aspect.  And again... remember Bethesda RPGs... no companion customisation for the most part and yet those are considered traditional. 

And it wouldn't work because OF THE HISTORY.  DId you not pay attention to Hawke's history and journey up to the game and then through it?  By being a different race, many of those instances would have had to change and some would have had to change drastically.

Also, you did notice where they used the term squatting for Fenris... right?  That sort of implies that his "ownership" of the home is actually not recognised by many of the people in Hightown.  Hawke's estate is an entirely different matter that would be something of a huge occurence in the human controlled areas of Thedas if Hawke were an elf.  Dwarf would have worked in that instance, but then Bethany would have made absolutely no sense.  The narrative determined the race... and since story/characters are the most important aspects to an RPG (or gaming in general in my opinion), then DA2 remained true to what an RPG actually is.  It didn't sacrifice the story to invoke certain gameplay elements such as racial customisation.

[Funkjoker]

OP, you are absolutely right. I'm getting DA2 once there's the Goty out.

However, I really do hope that DA2 is just a test. I do not want my precious warden in any mainstreamed game. Please _take the time_ (as for DAO) and make further sequals for us hardcoreRPGplayers, as we >do not< like mainstream.

[NRO TYN]

Anoneemouse wrote...

This is sooooooo not traditional RPG, and any rude ppl who think it is are ignorant. RPG includes text based games. Not click-hack-and-slash. This is action/adventure.

Slow Clap