402 réponses à ce sujet

[Arvn]

The unstated assumption is Bioware made the changes to push more units, to be more popular, to make more money. Yet somehow the result of that is most players now hate it? Or is it that the classic PC gamer pool is small but fanatic, and the real anger is that one of the few properties that appeared to cater to them has now started to abandon them? In other words, good or bad makes no difference at all - he actual game is irrelevant -a niche minority was "betrayed" and that is unforgivable. And kinda hilarious.

[Justin2k]

Not all the complainers are PC gamers. I play on xbox, and I think its horrible compared to the first.

Dragon Age Origins deserved a sequel (and still does).
Dragon Age 2 doesn't deserve a sequel.

So really unless they're going to go back to Origins, and start all over again with a better group of designers, they should just ditch this IP now.

Modifié par Justin2k, 12 mars 2011 - 12:56 .

[Exzander1]

Actually, "most" of us don't agree. First, this forum is fairly split on the subject, as mentioned before. Second, the vast, vast, VAST majority of people that have the game don't even post on these forums. There is a very vocal minority, no doubt, but guess what? There was and still is one for ME2, there was and is one for Fallout 3/New Vegas, there's always a very vocal minority that takes over a few message boards when a second/third game comes out that state these very things.

Personally, I don't prefer Origins or DA2 or DA2 over Origins. Both do what they do very well, both are fun, enjoyable, and entertaining.

This game is far from a "disaster", it's actually a really good game.

[Korusus]

ObjectivelySubjective wrote...

 What does this mean? Well, I assume that they will go back to the drawing boards for DA3.

Perhaps a new lead designer for the Dragon Age team (just a suggestion)?  From reading the interview with him it sounds to me like he has run dry creatively.  I didn't follow Dragon Age II's development as closely as I did with DA:O, but was David Gaider's role reduced dramatically for this game by comparison?  Because it seems like it. 

I just feel like creativity was stifled on this project in a way that's kind of unprecendented on a BioWare title...and that's not necessarily all EA's fault.

[viverravid]

ObjectivelySubjective wrote...

If nothing else it will teach EA (and Bioware) that we're not just consumer drones that will eat up any trash they throw at us. 

Says piles of people who already paid their money for the game. SLight problem with that argument, methinks.

[Lajkos]

ObjectivelySubjective wrote...

... I, for one, am quite gald that this DA2 fiasco happened. If nothing else it will teach EA (and Bioware) that we're not just consumer drones that will eat up any trash they throw at us.

EA will never learn that lesson.

To me DA2 rank pretty low on the Bioware scale, but farily high if you look across all non-bioware games out today.
But I rather see them go back to origins kind of game, hopefully with our warden, and that they take their time making it and do not rush it just becaus EA want money fast.

[electroban]

If you are split on whether or not DA2 is a good game, you need to figure out what a good game is, cos DA2 is NOT a good game dude. Maybe the trash you play on the Xbox/PS3 is so frequent that when a subpar game comes your way you think its good...

But trust me, the game isn't good, why do you think the Lead Designer of DA1 said "i didn't like where DA2 was going" ??

You know why? Cos it was going straight to the bargain bin in your local walmart

[VanDraegon]

ObjectivelySubjective wrote...

...that DA2 was a rushed disaster, lets get on talking about DA3.

Do not presume to speak for the majority of DA2 players. There is a vocal contingent on the forums that dislikes the game. That in no way means, nor do you have any proof, that the majority of DA2 players think the game is a disaster. Even if you only count forum members.

[mouseUp]

ObjectivelySubjective wrote...

Well, I assume that they will go back to the drawing boards for DA3.

The wont do any thing like that, is my guess.
I bet DA:2 will sell good and if they want to, they can go on the same route for DA:3

Build it in 2 years, throw some good marketing on top of it and it will sell good again.

[Senzen Sumnor]

They need to scrub DA2 from their minds and pretend it never happened. Bring back tactical cam, player character creation, more classes, more races, more spells, abilities, feats, expand the lore. Take what DA:O accomplished and build upon it, not tear it all down.

[tishyw]

Hopefully they won't decide that the solution is to do even more 'stream-lining'.

[Quole]

Drogo45 wrote...

Most do not agree. Most see that DA2 is better and more advanced than DA. You are in the minority by a long shot.

lol?

[Deadmac]

Duncan Anderson wrote...

Hate to break it to you sweethart, but there has been no 'fiasco' and ther certainly is no consensus that it is a disaster. This fourm is prety evenly split for/aginst DA2 and forums represent the hardest part of the fanbase to please, not to mention only being a tiny sliver of the total consumers.

Although I do not find the game to be attractive, I agree with your perceptions about "Dragon Age II's" success and failure. "Dragon Age II" can be a hardsell on day one, but on day 400 it can turn into a complete success. Some people will buy the game once it hits $20 to $30, so they don't feel as though they lost a complete $60.

Second, you are correct again. Even though the arguments are within these walls, the exact measurement cannot actually be counted by outsiders. The world is bigger than one forum.

[tRaGiQuE_]

Drogo45 wrote...

Most do not agree. Most see that DA2 is better and more advanced than DA. You are in the minority by a long shot.

If you really think that DA2 is more advanced then DAO, then you must be truly delusional and need some help. The entire game is dumbed/watered down to death. Wow all I need to make a million Fire Bombs is two lousy mushrooms used over and over as long as they're in my inventory. Skill trees a simplified joke, I could go on for 20 minutes about DA2. But I am not going to sit here and argue with fanboys who act like they are public relation reps for the companies. By the way are all you little fanboys getting paid or something....lol

[ObjectivelySubjective]

Exzander1 wrote...

Actually, "most" of us don't agree. First, this forum is fairly split on the subject, as mentioned before. Second, the vast, vast, VAST majority of people that have the game don't even post on these forums. There is a very vocal minority, no doubt, but guess what? There was and still is one for ME2, there was and is one for Fallout 3/New Vegas, there's always a very vocal minority that takes over a few message boards when a second/third game comes out that state these very things.

Personally, I don't prefer Origins or DA2 or DA2 over Origins. Both do what they do very well, both are fun, enjoyable, and entertaining.

This game is far from a "disaster", it's actually a really good game.

It's hard to see something as being  "good" when it's a stripped down version of a much superior product.

Lets see now:
- The menu screens are boring and simple. Out goes the old scroll type menu for a bland black background.
- Locations are EXTREMELY limited. So limited, that the creators felt like throwing in crap like Day/Night to trick people into thinking that there are more locations.
- Customization is extremely limited. So much for having your entire team wearing the same style armor.

I simply cannot see how someone can like the game if they've played Origins. Hell, even people who've worked on the game have come out and admitted that it was rushed.

This game was a HUGE backlash for Bioware. I mean it even forced me to make a new account out of fear that they will ban me from playing.

[ErebUs890]

It's more than likely that an expansion will be released before a sequel. A sequel probably won't be announced for another 3 years. With an expansion, they can make a lot of needed improvements to DA2.

Also, DA2 is not a disaster, it was obviously rushed, but that doesn't mean much. It's a good game, with a good story, and great characters, and has a great improvement to the combat that was in DA:O. DA2 is a GOOD game. Not everything BioWare makes can be a masterpiece.

[elevul]

Donkeycow wrote...
Hopfully they will unlearn everything they learned from DA2 and pick up were Origins left off from a design perspective. Also hopefully we will be seeing an Origins 2 instead of a Dragon Age 3.

I hope they won't. While poorly executed, I really loved the fact that the story wasn't the same old "big enemy to defeat", but a collection of various stories that connected in the end to make us understand what's happening.
I hope they will keep developing it, because it has a lot to give.
Also, I really loved how they dwelt deeply in human psychology, to make characters more human.

Modifié par elevul, 12 mars 2011 - 01:05 .

[Ravenmyste]

most the ones that are saying its a disaster are the ones that dont even have the game registered and just sprout off things they read in a review

i love the game  and its   breath fresh air to say this but they did a good job on it

[Jacopo Belbo]

Drogo45 wrote...

Most do not agree. Most see that DA2 is better and more advanced than DA. You are in the minority by a long shot.

wow. you are just a complete moron.  hey, here is a clue.  when you simplify everything that is the exact opposite of making it more "advanced".  this game is for 17 year old button mashing x-boxers.  it was supposed to be for mature adult RPGers if it wanted to be a true heir to BG, NWN and DA:O.  but EA and Bioware went for the ****** crowd like you.  oh nooooz there are too many choices for character classes and races and traits and skills and equipment!  how will i ever make it thru this game if i have to think and plan at every turn!  the point of a really good RPG is to make you think, in detail, about everything you are doing and every choice you are making. from a charcter development point, from a party/companion development point, from a plot/story point.  there are a world of crappy action/adventure hack and slash trash out there if you don't want to think and mash buttons and do combos and spew blood everywhere.  now RPGs don't have to be as complicated and open ended as Morrowind (that was too "open ended") but the same cave over and over?  one city (with a few "outskirts"?  every cave or dungeon being one long corridor essentially?  DA:O was too limited in my opinion compared to NWN but the dumbing down was minor (mostly a lack of variety in equipment) and any such failings were compensated for by a very big world with multiple different areas to go to in any order and a pretty vast and sprawling story.  this game dumbed down the already dumbed down DA:O to the point that calling it an RPG is a farce.  if game sites and stores weren't so in the pocket and up the arse of EA they should rightly put this game in the action/adventure category next to prince of persia.

if you like your games dumb and bloody then i am sure this is a hit for you.  i liked god of war, it was a neat story and it didn't make me think too hard.  this is an RPG it was supposed to make me think and it was supposed to be engaging and instead it was a steaming pile of feces and if you like it and think it is "advanced" shows you have ****e for taste (and like the taste of ****e).

[tRaGiQuE_]

tishyw wrote...

Hopefully they won't decide that the solution is to do even more 'stream-lining'.

I have said it before when Oblivion was released. Someday they will just hand us a game disc for $100 bucks or more and the dev tools and tell us to make it ourselves.....

[Deadmac]

If BioWare releases an expansion pack that extends the game and fixes issue in the first portion, the game can be easily salvaged without being too much of a bother.

[tez19]

I do not agree with you OP. Speak for yourself and no-one else.

[Melness]

Considering that when playing Origins I wouldn't min-max my companions armor but rather make them look like they would (I would never change Morrigan's Robes), the new inventory won't ever be my concern. There's still inventory management and there's still min-maxing, just not the looks.

Besides, most of the changes were actually better to me. The personality system is nice; The new cross-class combos are interesting; The new art style reject the old orcs and goblins err darkspawn;

But bugs, recycled dungeons, counter productive camera and a somewhat untuned difficulty system? That can certainly change.

[Quole]

Jacopo Belbo wrote...

Drogo45 wrote...

Most do not agree. Most see that DA2 is better and more advanced than DA. You are in the minority by a long shot.

wow. you are just a complete moron.  hey, here is a clue.  when you simplify everything that is the exact opposite of making it more "advanced".  this game is for 17 year old button mashing x-boxers.  it was supposed to be for mature adult RPGers if it wanted to be a true heir to BG, NWN and DA:O.  but EA and Bioware went for the ****** crowd like you.  oh nooooz there are too many choices for character classes and races and traits and skills and equipment!  how will i ever make it thru this game if i have to think and plan at every turn!  the point of a really good RPG is to make you think, in detail, about everything you are doing and every choice you are making. from a charcter development point, from a party/companion development point, from a plot/story point.  there are a world of crappy action/adventure hack and slash trash out there if you don't want to think and mash buttons and do combos and spew blood everywhere.  now RPGs don't have to be as complicated and open ended as Morrowind (that was too "open ended") but the same cave over and over?  one city (with a few "outskirts"?  every cave or dungeon being one long corridor essentially?  DA:O was too limited in my opinion compared to NWN but the dumbing down was minor (mostly a lack of variety in equipment) and any such failings were compensated for by a very big world with multiple different areas to go to in any order and a pretty vast and sprawling story.  this game dumbed down the already dumbed down DA:O to the point that calling it an RPG is a farce.  if game sites and stores weren't so in the pocket and up the arse of EA they should rightly put this game in the action/adventure category next to prince of persia.

if you like your games dumb and bloody then i am sure this is a hit for you.  i liked god of war, it was a neat story and it didn't make me think too hard.  this is an RPG it was supposed to make me think and it was supposed to be engaging and instead it was a steaming pile of feces and if you like it and think it is "advanced" shows you have ****e for taste (and like the taste of ****e).

You know, I agreed with most of what you said. However was the insult to console players really necessary?

[Ricericebaby]

Arvn wrote...

The unstated assumption is Bioware made the changes to push more units, to be more popular, to make more money. Yet somehow the result of that is most players now hate it? Or is it that the classic PC gamer pool is small but fanatic, and the real anger is that one of the few properties that appeared to cater to them has now started to abandon them? In other words, good or bad makes no difference at all - a niche minority was "betrayed" and that is unforgiv

^^^ this in spades. I watched a review of the demo on Youtube, and the reviewer spent a good 1/3 of the review crying about the "consolefacation" of the game and how its sucks now because of this. yes the game was designed around a console style hud, but i dont think that makes it a disaster. will it win any GoTY awards? More than likely not. Just stop whining becuase "its popular now so it must now be terrible." Enjoy the game for what it is, a solid game that will make bioware tons of cash.