402 réponses à ce sujet

[Xena_Shepard]

TricksterPuppet wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...

TricksterPuppet wrote...

After reading the posts in this topic, it does seem that opinions are evenly split but the people who hate it are more vocal. =/

Is there really a need for people to go bash those who like the game? Just agree to disagree. Everyone has their own opinions.

People who 'agree to disagree' don't get anything changed. 'Agreeing to disagree' is the same as sitting back and taking it. I'm tired of hearing that neutralist line.

I didn't really mean it that way. People can complain as much as they want, but they shouldn't insult others for liking it.

Ah, fair enough.

[Firky]

I'm honestly not sure how you'd prove that "most people" do or don't like any game. Like, statistically. But I'd love to find out.

"Most people" in the "old school RPG crowd?" I used to feel proud to count myself amounst those ranks, but I'm certainly not willing to delight in DAII's "perceived" failure or ridicule designers, for any cause. I'm totally supportive of people expressing their opinions, but pointless meanness and radical generalisations about "the old school RPG crowd" actually make me a lot sadder than recycled level design.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm happy to report that I'm a very old school RPG fan, from the first Ultimas, and I'm having a blast playing DAII. I was actually really shocked/disappointed etc at the original announcements of "action-RPG", "button=awesome" etc. Now, I'm happy to see where the series goes. Enjoying it.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

spam image removed.

DA2 > DA:O

Modifié par Seb Hanlon, 12 mars 2011 - 03:52 .

[Giantdeathrobot]

But that's not how the Internet works Trickster. If a person or persons ever so slightly disagrees with you they are, of course, ''console kiddies'', ''no-life keyboard warriors'', ''crybaby PC master race elitists'', and I am certain I am missing the most colorful catch-phrases. No such thing as being critical towards the game while appreciating it, and surely debate that does not end up with mods having to hand out warnings is madness itself. I mean, how can we have a civil discussion if we are not flinging meaningless insults at each other?.

[Nyuneko]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

TricksterPuppet wrote...

After reading the posts in this topic, it does seem that opinions are evenly split but the people who hate it are more vocal. =/

Is there really a need for people to go bash those who like the game? Just agree to disagree. Everyone has their own opinions.

People who 'agree to disagree' don't get anything changed. 'Agreeing to disagree' is the same as sitting back and taking it. I'm tired of hearing that neutralist line.

But the ...forgive my poor English, non-neutralist line don't get anything changed either when the non-neutralists are all too happy to give Bioware their money for a full-price day-one purchase. Fine if you believe you have to try it before you berate it, but you could least wait til the price is dropped or get them 2nd hand or something. You are voting with your wallet afterall.

Do you honestly think the people up top, the one who hand out money and crap, cared about us? They have to put up an image of customer caring, but they don't give a flying damn about our opinion if we are paying them full price for whatever crap they put out. Hence why despite constant whining of pre-order DLC in DAO and ME2, we still got the same bull**** in DA2.

Not to mention that many of the high ups don't even read our opinion, at all(they have specific department for that most of the time), they just see sales number and go "Oh, so cutting content won't hurt sales, but save on budget! Let's cut more and see if we could make a bigger profit!"

[Tactical Sneeze]

Well this is the internet guys. Winning an argument on the internet is like winning in the special Olympics. Congratulations you won! You're still retarded though.

[Xena_Shepard]

I do believe that hardcore RPG fans, like myself, are upset because this signifies that the days of intelligent gaming are over. Games are being dumbed down for today's stupid generation. It's working, apparently...

That's not to say that simplification is a bad thing in some cases, I absolutely loved ME2, and I am a diehard RPG fan. It's just that DA2 was less simplified and more stupified. If they had made it simpler whilst keeping the core-RPG elements of a good storyline, intriguing characters, etc. It would've been masterful.

Whenever I see someone who likes this game, all I think is: "Wow...they like this game? Huh, I guess the world really IS getting dumber."

Modifié par Xena_Shepard, 12 mars 2011 - 03:58 .

[17thknight]

Voice your disgust and contempt for this rushed, weak, subpar game with your wallets. Don't buy the DLC

Don't buy the game. (ESPECIALLY if you don't want them stealth-installing a borderline rootkit like SecuROM on your PC without informing you of it first)

When sales plummet they'll fix themselves. Or they won't, and the series is dead.

[Xena_Shepard]

17thknight wrote...

Voice your disgust and contempt for this rushed, weak, subpar game with your wallets. Don't buy the DLC

Don't buy the game. (ESPECIALLY if you don't want them stealth-installing a borderline rootkit like SecuROM on your PC without informing you of it first)

When sales plummet they'll fix themselves. Or they won't, and the series is dead.

^ QFT

I am very, very upset that I bought this game at all. Honestly, I didn't follow the development of the game as closely as I would for Mass Effect 3, I just trusted BioWare. That is now my biggest regret. But I certainly won't even think of touching the DLC for this game...unlike ME2, where I bought every single DLC that ever came out.

[Tactical Sneeze]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

17thknight wrote...

Voice your disgust and contempt for this rushed, weak, subpar game with your wallets. Don't buy the DLC

Don't buy the game. (ESPECIALLY if you don't want them stealth-installing a borderline rootkit like SecuROM on your PC without informing you of it first)

When sales plummet they'll fix themselves. Or they won't, and the series is dead.

^ QFT

I am very, very upset that I bought this game at all. Honestly, I didn't follow the development of the game as closely as I would for Mass Effect 3, I just trusted BioWare. That is now my biggest regret. But I certainly won't even think of touching the DLC for this game...unlike ME2, where I bought every single DLC that ever came out.

Thats almost word for word on whats on the Fable 3 forums. Just replace BioWare with Lionhead...

[tbsking]

Look, from my experience (on the PS3, so thanks for all the PC jingoism) DA2 is as thus:

Less character customization: 3 classes with slightly different story dynamics compared to Origins six origins, human only compared to Origins three different races.

Less story: the fact that the game is shorter than Origins should be proof alone, but consider that the entire first act is all about getting money as a driving goal, in order to force the player into going through the main quests. Simply put, the premise, though ambitious and imaginative, was poorly executed and the story as a whole suffered for it. The companions are also very weak, and oftentimes not engaging.

Fewer features: fewer talents, no skill trees, fewer dialogue options, no ability to change companions' armor, fewer dialogues as a whole.

Fewer resources: animations were copy-pasta from Origins, and dungeons were used again and again with little to no variation in all instances, no ability to change companions' armor allows them to save on rendering other models, dialogues restricted to a Good, Neutral, Mean dichotomy.

Overall, there was a lot less. The combat changes I could care less about; I didn't mind it in either Origins or DA2, but there is a lot here (or rather not) that suggests *heavily* that the game was a victim of rushed or even - dare I say - careless development.

The fact that there was DLC available for purchase from day one indicates that the entire process was simply a cash in. I personally blame EA for this, not Bioware, and hope that a future title in the Dragon Age franchise receives a lot more care in development.

As an aside I was really hoping that decisions made in DAO would have more significance, seeing as the developers claimed as much. I saw no references to past events that couldn't have been chalked up to a good estimate of what happened. I was really hoping that certain events from DAO implied or stated to have greater repercussions would indeed have repercussions.

Case in point, Anders stayed in the Wardens in my playthrough of DAO, something that was considered insignificant by DA2. After all, didn't the writers promise they would not impose their own "canon" on players?

[Xena_Shepard]

Tactical Sneeze wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...

17thknight wrote...

Voice your disgust and contempt for this rushed, weak, subpar game with your wallets. Don't buy the DLC

Don't buy the game. (ESPECIALLY if you don't want them stealth-installing a borderline rootkit like SecuROM on your PC without informing you of it first)

When sales plummet they'll fix themselves. Or they won't, and the series is dead.

^ QFT

I am very, very upset that I bought this game at all. Honestly, I didn't follow the development of the game as closely as I would for Mass Effect 3, I just trusted BioWare. That is now my biggest regret. But I certainly won't even think of touching the DLC for this game...unlike ME2, where I bought every single DLC that ever came out.

Thats almost word for word on whats on the Fable 3 forums. Just replace BioWare with Lionhead...

Which is? What I said or what she said? Because I am a PC gamer and Fable 3 hasn't even come out for PC yet, though I plan to get it when it does...

[17thknight]

Tactical Sneeze wrote...


Thats almost word for word on whats on the Fable 3 forums. Just replace BioWare with Lionhead...

Well, it's pretty inarguable that Fable 3 was a terrible entry in the series, which was pretty weak to start with, but began to look up with part 2. (Definitely worse than DA2, those fans have plenty to be pissed about) .

[Tactical Sneeze]

Seriously... I dont like the dumbing down of all this but thats the way its going. All we can do is sit back and watch as the world goes dumb.

Modifié par Tactical Sneeze, 12 mars 2011 - 04:02 .

[Tactical Sneeze]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Tactical Sneeze wrote...

Xena_Shepard wrote...

17thknight wrote...

Voice your disgust and contempt for this rushed, weak, subpar game with your wallets. Don't buy the DLC

Don't buy the game. (ESPECIALLY if you don't want them stealth-installing a borderline rootkit like SecuROM on your PC without informing you of it first)

When sales plummet they'll fix themselves. Or they won't, and the series is dead.

^ QFT

I am very, very upset that I bought this game at all. Honestly, I didn't follow the development of the game as closely as I would for Mass Effect 3, I just trusted BioWare. That is now my biggest regret. But I certainly won't even think of touching the DLC for this game...unlike ME2, where I bought every single DLC that ever came out.

Thats almost word for word on whats on the Fable 3 forums. Just replace BioWare with Lionhead...

Which is? What I said or what she said? Because I am a PC gamer and Fable 3 hasn't even come out for PC yet, though I plan to get it when it does...

what you said

[Shirachi]

The first two acts were very fun, just the right length, and had much improved combat. The family dynamic was well executed, as I became very attached to them.

My main gripe is with how the companions were handled, the third act (which was rushed), and the ending. Since Dragon Age is about, well, the Dragon Age, I think every game should stand alone -- which DA2 did not do, sadly. It's a flawed game that could have done with more development. I'd rate it below Origins, but above Awakenings.

[LordLucians]

I won't fight over that the game graphics looks amazing, but in customization, battle system, story telling in general, this is miles behind what DA:O was, I felt no attachment to any of my companions, didn't care what their story was, didn't care about all the lazy side quest, and gathering "rare" armor was nothing but a waste of time seeing as how once you found the armor you liked, everything else was trash for sale.
I liked how they used the term "dumb" down to make it easier for more players, and yet DA:O sold millions of copies just fine on all platforms, they "dumb" it down so much that the battles feel like a cheap hack n slash button mash-a-thon, no exploration at ALL, loading screens were just mind numbing.
IMO they only ONLY reason they slapped a "2" on this game was to push unites and make fast money for EA, this is nothing but a slap in the face to DA:O and is in no way shape or form a true sequel at All, if they had just called this a Dragon Age stand alone game that took place in the universe of DA then I could accept it as much, but to tag it with one of the greatest RPGs of all time, is nothing but a flat out insult to both the Brand Name, and the Customers that made it what it is.

[tbsking]

LordLucians wrote...

I won't fight over that the game graphics looks amazing, but in customization, battle system, story telling in general, this is miles behind what DA:O was, I felt no attachment to any of my companions, didn't care what their story was, didn't care about all the lazy side quest, and gathering "rare" armor was nothing but a waste of time seeing as how once you found the armor you liked, everything else was trash for sale.
I liked how they used the term "dumb" down to make it easier for more players, and yet DA:O sold millions of copies just fine on all platforms, they "dumb" it down so much that the battles feel like a cheap hack n slash button mash-a-thon, no exploration at ALL, loading screens were just mind numbing.
IMO they only ONLY reason they slapped a "2" on this game was to push unites and make fast money for EA, this is nothing but a slap in the face to DA:O and is in no way shape or form a true sequel at All, if they had just called this a Dragon Age stand alone game that took place in the universe of DA then I could accept it as much, but to tag it with one of the greatest RPGs of all time, is nothing but a flat out insult to both the Brand Name, and the Customers that made it what it is.

I truly wonder how much was "simplified" or otherwise limited from what DAO had in order to accomodate the demands of full voice acting and better graphics.

[Xena_Shepard]

Tactical Sneeze wrote...

what you said

Ok...and? What's that got to do with me? As I said, I don't even own Fable 3, never even seen it being played.

[tdawg7669]

Arvn wrote...

The unstated assumption is Bioware made the changes to push more units, to be more popular, to make more money. Yet somehow the result of that is most players now hate it? Or is it that the classic PC gamer pool is small but fanatic, and the real anger is that one of the few properties that appeared to cater to them has now started to abandon them? In other words, good or bad makes no difference at all - he actual game is irrelevant -a niche minority was "betrayed" and that is unforgivable. And kinda hilarious.

pretty much. People are afraid of the evolution of the genre. They were so used to elements of RPGS that existed only because of limited technology for the most part, that they cannot bear the advancement of the genre.

It kind of reminds me of Plato's allegory of the cave. The man escapes the cave and sees the greatness of the outside world, and when he tries to tell the others still trapped in the cave, he is met with harsh resistance.

[Night Prowler76]

Duncan Anderson wrote...

Hate to break it to you sweethart, but there has been no 'fiasco' and ther certainly is no consensus that it is a disaster. This fourm is prety evenly split for/aginst DA2 and forums represent the hardest part of the fanbase to please, not to mention only being a tiny sliver of the total consumers.

Its not just these forums, all the forums are trashing this game, and the sales arent all that good, they will be lucky to sell as many copies as Origins, and when you figure that they had a good fanbase already, they screwed it up pretty bad.

[Anathemic]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Duncan Anderson wrote...

Hate to break it to you sweethart, but there has been no 'fiasco' and ther certainly is no consensus that it is a disaster. This fourm is prety evenly split for/aginst DA2 and forums represent the hardest part of the fanbase to please, not to mention only being a tiny sliver of the total consumers.

Its not just these forums, all the forums are trashing this game, and the sales arent all that good, they will be lucky to sell as many copies as Origins, and when you figure that they had a good fanbase already, they screwed it up pretty bad.

Major scrweup, they downright lied to us

arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/03/dragon-age-ii-features-hated-securom-despite-previous-ea-claims.ars

[Night Prowler76]

tdawg7669 wrote...

Arvn wrote...

The unstated assumption is Bioware made the changes to push more units, to be more popular, to make more money. Yet somehow the result of that is most players now hate it? Or is it that the classic PC gamer pool is small but fanatic, and the real anger is that one of the few properties that appeared to cater to them has now started to abandon them? In other words, good or bad makes no difference at all - he actual game is irrelevant -a niche minority was "betrayed" and that is unforgivable. And kinda hilarious.

pretty much. People are afraid of the evolution of the genre. They were so used to elements of RPGS that existed only because of limited technology for the most part, that they cannot bear the advancement of the genre.

It kind of reminds me of Plato's allegory of the cave. The man escapes the cave and sees the greatness of the outside world, and when he tries to tell the others still trapped in the cave, he is met with harsh resistance.

This game has not evolved at all...critics and fans agree, it has lower scores on both, and lackluster sales, doesnt really sound like evolution to me.

[Tactical Sneeze]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

Tactical Sneeze wrote...

what you said

Ok...and? What's that got to do with me? As I said, I don't even own Fable 3, never even seen it being played.

Just want to point out that its also happening to the Fable series. Everyone ADORED Fable 1 and liked Fable 2 but when Fable 3 came out all everyone did was QQ and whine.

[17thknight]

tdawg7669 wrote...



pretty much. People are afraid of the evolution of the genre. They were so used to elements of RPGS that existed only because of limited technology for the most part, that they cannot bear the advancement of the genre.

This isn't "evolution" it's "devolution".

Sitting there, shoving your head in the sand, and pretending there are not systemic problems with this game is abhorrent. Games like Baldur's Gate did not exist because of "technology limitations".   90 man-years of development went into that game, with an engine that was built from the ground up by the team who made it (who had never made a game before) and that same engine spent the next DECADE redefning the RPG genre.

You have no concept of history, especially video game history, and it really really REALLY shows. What has happened with DA2 is 50 steps back for every step forward.