251 réponses à ce sujet

[SHOVA]

One of my favorite ways to make sure they cant come back to a PW, is to put their cdkeys, and IP in the on enter script. If the offending CDkey, or IP logs in, it autoboots them. If any need the code, let me know, I am happy to share.

[Thayan]

As Bosgald can explain to us all in detail, he and the others with him eventually get around the dual CD Key/IP Address bans too.

Modifié par Thayan, 15 mars 2011 - 07:16 .

[TSMDude]

It is not too hard to do to be honest and why we are trying to do it the way we are by sharing details and such like.

[Jenna WSI]

Thayan wrote...

Quilver wrote...
I've been killed by griefers numerous times. They often come in a team of maxed-out barbarians, and they can be quite effective against low-level characters.

I can confirm this has happened as recently as several weeks ago in Thay for example. While we are learning and adapting to try and counter these trolls before they get this chance, it also pays to educate your playerbase to *not* accept party invites from players they do not know and *not* respond to Tells from said players asking where they are at. Simple stuff, but it can be somewhat effective in saving a newbie from a griefer.

I have to respectfully dissagree. I love seeing a community that is welcoming and helpfull to new people. I think it's better to reemburse a player that suffered a loss from a griefer, than turn to a method of prevention that includes a negative impact on someone who is usually not a griefer.. but just a new player. Of course, it all depends on if the old players are willing to deal with the reprecussions.

[Thayan]

So on your way to school get in the car when a stranger stops and offers to give you a ride?

Gotcha.

[FireWraith]

From what I understand, he's using key generation hacks (illegal) to bypass Key bans, and using his ISP's dynamic address allocation to bypass IP bans. Banning Bosgald's entire IP range (i.e., banning all of the address blocks allocated to his ISP (telenet.be) may prove more effective. Depending on the actions they take, it may be worth considering referring the matter to the abuse departments of his (or others') ISPs, or even to Law Enforcement authorities if they violate the laws in your location. The best advice I would have for those routes is to keep as many logs as you can.

[FireWraith]

Further information of interest for those hosting in the USA:

The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act is a law passed by the United States Congress in 1986, intended to reduce cracking of computer systems and to address federal computer-related offenses. The Act (codified as 18 U.S.C. § 1030) governs cases with a compelling federal interest, where computers of the federal government or certain financial institutions are involved, where the crime itself is interstate in nature, or where computers are used in interstate and foreign commerce.

It was amended in 1988, 1994, 1996, in 2001 by the USA PATRIOT Act, 2002, and in 2008 by the Identity Theft Enforcement and Restitution Act. Subsection ( of the act punishes anyone who not just commits or attempts to commit an offense under the Act, but also those who conspire to do so.

The CFAA defines “protected computers” under 18 U.S.C. § 1030(e)(2) to mean a computer:

    * exclusively for the use of a financial institution or the United States Government, or, in the case of a computer not exclusively for such use, used by or for a financial institution or the United States Government and the conduct constituting the offense affects that use by or for the financial institution or the Government; or
    * which is used in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce or communication, including a computer located outside the United States that is used in a manner that affects interstate or foreign commerce or communication of the United States;

Criminal offenses under the Act include:

   2. Intentionally accessing a computer without authorization to obtain:
          * Information from any protected computer if the conduct involves an interstate or foreign communication
   6. Knowingly and with the intent to defraud, trafficking in a password or similar information through which a computer may be accessed without authorization.

Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer, nor am I an authority on what does or does not constitute an offense under this or other laws.  Full text of the applicable sections of US Code can be found at http://www.law.corne...de/18/1030.html

[Jenna WSI]

Thayan wrote...

So on your way to school get in the car when a stranger stops and offers to give you a ride?

Gotcha.

Hookay... Going to ignore the false analogy logic there. I wasn't trying to take a jab at you or anything. I just didn't agree. *Shrug*

[Zanzibarr]

Seems there is a lot of jerkishness going on in the community at the moment. These griefers are a scourge on honest players, just like deceitful server admins are.

[PurpleDragonKnight]

Jenna WSI...

I have to respectfully dissagree. I love seeing a community that is welcoming and helpfull to new people. I think it's better to reemburse a player that suffered a loss from a griefer, than turn to a method of prevention that includes a negative impact on someone who is usually not a griefer.. but just a new player. Of course, it all depends on if the old players are willing to deal with the reprecussions.

Well said. It's important to not let them harm the playerbase. If we become more tentative and anti-social, they are in effect succeeding in their original aim (to spoil our enjoyment).

[FireWraith]

Agreed - better to fight griefers as what they are, than to let the friendly atmosphere of a server become poisoned.

That said, though, I don't think it would hurt if a server wanted to remind their players to be careful about "suspicious" behavior. These folks follow a pretty standard pattern, and if one of your players thinks something may be odd/unusual/wrong with a new player on an unfamiliar login, it never hurts to suggest they refer it to a staff member. It could just be a lost/confused newbie in need of help, after all... or it could be one of these jerks looking to mess with people.

[Zanzibarr]

Do CD-key gens actually work online? I'm 95% sure they don't.. Or at least, none existed a year ago, when I needed one badly (lost my own keys). I tried all the different ones, and none of them generated a key that worked online - You get the message 'CD Key unauthorized', even though you can load up the game with that key.

[FireWraith]

I don't honestly know. In theory it's certainly possible. They might simply have a sufficiently long list of stolen/borrowed/etc keys to use. In practice though what I have observed is that there is a sufficient number of keys in his/their possession to allow them to switch beyond the patience of many servers to keep playing whack-a-mole.

[FireWraith]

Regardless, if anyone wants, I found it much easier and more effective to single out the IP blocks in order to block dynamic IP resets.  If you're dealing with an ISP that is also used by some of your players though, you might have to resort to different measures.

Modifié par FireWraith, 15 mars 2011 - 10:23 .

[SHOVA]

It is likely that they own multiple copies of the game, and expansions. They could enter key 1 from the base game, add key from copy 2 of SOU, and key 7 of Hotu. Generating a list of usable, and legal keys, and having multiple ones with wich to annoy.

[Fellanor]

Couple of things:

1) I'm not sure if it's a good idea to be publically posting your strategies and information with regard to banning him/them?

2) Let's remember that this is a game. What do you intend to say to their ISP when you phone them up?

"This kid who lives in his parents' basement is making maxed out barbarian half-orcs and killing us! Can you take away his internet connection?"

"Erm, are you talking about a computer game?"

"Yes. He's ruining the game! He's using cheats to get a greataxe which does 6d12 Acid damage!"

"I see... Can you just hold on for a few moments while I put you through to another line.." *generic music*

[FireWraith]

I sort of hope they are reading it. Can they be blocked? Absolutely. Are there ways for them to try and do more? Sure, there's lots of ways to cause trouble on the internet - though you tend to cross into violations of your contract with your ISP, not to mention illegal actions that, with sufficient evidence, can land people in serious legal trouble. It's entirely possible for people to find themselves disconnected from the internet entirely, or meeting up with the nice men in suits.

Can you get away with it against someone who's just hosting from their home computer with no real knowledge of how to deal with this stuff? Probably. Are some of these servers hosted elsewhere, at places that take hostile activity very seriously - and I don't just mean logging in to try and PVP players, we're talking denial of service, account or identity theft, unauthorized access to a system, et cetera - Yes, there are.  Even something like accessing someone else's Gmail account by guessing their password reset questions is a Federal Felony, and there are people in prison because of it.

Have I seen any of that? No, I haven't... though I've heard staff from other servers allege it. So I'm providing fair warning to other server admins that larger IP Range blocks may be needed to deal with persistent griefers, at the same time I point out that more serious activities have consequences.

Modifié par FireWraith, 16 mars 2011 - 01:53 .

[SHOVA]

you want a simple way to get rid of griefers in 2 words?

Player password.

end of problem.

[Jenna WSI]

On that subject... making a big deal out of it and giving someone fame for cheating, and a positive (attention) reaction to a negative action is going to encourage them to continue. Should just let the admins band together privately and be done with it.

[SHOVA]

The old HCR system had the addition to limit the number of PCs a person could bring in. I usualy went with 3 characters per log in. That in addition to using Enforce Legal Character, and then "breaking" and booting the offending player, can be a usuable way to get rid of them. Breaking a character only works with the ELC. Breaking is done by using the DMset Ability score in game to something not normally setable. My favorite was to set the Int to 1. then boot them. While this does take time, and effort from the DM staff, it does work well when the host is not on to auto boot them when they start logging in.

[Baaleos]

Question -
Totems and Teaparties - Was it your intention to say in your first post in this thread, how to hack server side characters?

On the idea of a shared ban list.
I worked on a similar project a while back.

Basically it was a Opt in website scheme, that had a central mySQL database, which was pooled every 20 minutes via php script, which then sent the updated ban list down to all the opted in servers via mysql/php.

The result was, that all the servers shared a central ban list, that was automated in that it would update the nwnx database with the banned cdkeys and user accounts etc


I abandonned the project as it involved alot of stuff that, while easy to set up for myself, was not so easy to setup for other people.

eg - You need to create a User Account which has insert/update/delete rights on a single table in your mysql database, that would be used by the external/central website, to download the list of bans into your own database and not everyone knows how to do that.

[FelSeero]

So yea after reading this entire post...for the most part I'm just confused as to how a game has caused so much resentment between people. Since when was NWN so damn dangerous, serious and paranoid? I'm always willing to help and join in the conversation, and perhaps I simply don't understand alot of the terminology, but I don't think its worth it when it looks to me like the people posting here are all caring members of the community. Which I think that NWN is. I'd like to find out more if somone would like to translate this monster of a post into a simple broken down statement.

[Shadooow]

FireWraith wrote...

I sort of hope they are reading it. Can they be blocked? Absolutely. Are there ways for them to try and do more? Sure, there's lots of ways to cause trouble on the internet - though you tend to cross into violations of your contract with your ISP, not to mention illegal actions that, with sufficient evidence, can land people in serious legal trouble. It's entirely possible for people to find themselves disconnected from the internet entirely, or meeting up with the nice men in suits.

Can you get away with it against someone who's just hosting from their home computer with no real knowledge of how to deal with this stuff? Probably. Are some of these servers hosted elsewhere, at places that take hostile activity very seriously - and I don't just mean logging in to try and PVP players, we're talking denial of service, account or identity theft, unauthorized access to a system, et cetera - Yes, there are.  Even something like accessing someone else's Gmail account by guessing their password reset questions is a Federal Felony, and there are people in prison because of it.

Good luck with that.

You admins and player from these HCRP persistent worlds are take it too seriously when this is just a game. And because if it, they can gain a pleasure from pissing you off, saying BSs like this and giving them fame and attention which is what they got from it. I used to do it too, I liked the playing with server's staff and show them they can't fight with me and I enjoyed it because they took it too seriously, they believed they are something more than rest of us, though they weren't.

Now I don't do that anymore and I am working on my own PW and I can tell you, that they wouldn't be interested in griefing on my module at all since I have no rules, players can do what they want, if they willing to accept consequences. So you will PK low level characters? OK, so we delevel you, so your victims could do this to you too, etc.
+ since I know how to cheat I also know how to prevent it, so none of their voodoo would work.


I mean, tell peoples they mustn't do this, that and that and a whole list of restriction and there will be always someone who do this, because you just told him how he can ****** you off, tell the childerns to not to lick the frozen stair-rail and they will do it. Just to try it what happens, just for fun or because they got bored.

Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 16 mars 2011 - 03:27 .

[Baaleos]

ShaDoOoW wrote...

FireWraith wrote...

I sort of hope they are reading it. Can they be blocked? Absolutely. Are there ways for them to try and do more? Sure, there's lots of ways to cause trouble on the internet - though you tend to cross into violations of your contract with your ISP, not to mention illegal actions that, with sufficient evidence, can land people in serious legal trouble. It's entirely possible for people to find themselves disconnected from the internet entirely, or meeting up with the nice men in suits.

Can you get away with it against someone who's just hosting from their home computer with no real knowledge of how to deal with this stuff? Probably. Are some of these servers hosted elsewhere, at places that take hostile activity very seriously - and I don't just mean logging in to try and PVP players, we're talking denial of service, account or identity theft, unauthorized access to a system, et cetera - Yes, there are.  Even something like accessing someone else's Gmail account by guessing their password reset questions is a Federal Felony, and there are people in prison because of it.

Good luck with that.

You admins and player from these HCRP persistent worlds are take it too seriously when this is just a game. And because if it, they can gain a pleasure from pissing you off, saying BSs like this and giving them fame and attention which is what they got from it. I used to do it too, I liked the playing with server's staff and show them they can't fight with me and I enjoyed it because they took it too seriously, they believed they are something more than rest of us, though they weren't.

Now I don't do that anymore and I am working on my own PW and I can tell you, that they wouldn't be interested in griefing on my module at all since I have no rules, players can do what they want, if they willing to accept consequences. So you will PK low level characters? OK, so we delevel you, so your victims could do this to you too, etc.
+ since I know how to cheat I also know how to prevent it, so none of their voodoo would work.


I mean, tell peoples they mustn't do this, that and that and a whole list of restriction and there will be always someone who do this, because you just told him how he can ****** you off, tell the childerns to not to lick the frozen stair-rail and they will do it. Just to try it what happens, just for fun or because they got bored.

Hear Hear @ ShaDoOoW

I fully agree,
Everyone getting their knickers in a bunch over game servers etc, is very petty, and especially when the game is meant to be about coming together to play.
Not banding together to fight other servers.

I know a server that has poorly designed areas, laggy areas etc, that caused clients to crash and disconnect,
and the area designer/artist as she calls herself, used to tell people
"You need to tinker with settings on your graphics card to get rid of the lag"

When players didnt like this, she and the Server Admin came up with a story that their server was under attack from another rival server, and that it was suffering lag as result of DOS Attacks.

After a Month of this story, and telling her players that the FBI were involved and tracking the perps down, it was revealed that she had a dodgy router and the Server returned to a somewhat less laggy state, never the less, clients still crash when entering that badly designed area.

This is an example of
Server A tries to mitigate their own Short Comings by Blaming Scapegoat B.

Lets not forget that Servers Run Modules.
Modules by the very definition of the name, are independant, and modular components.

One server should not be suffering by consequence of another server, I would never try to blame my own population problems on another server.
Im too laid back for that,
Its only a game after all.

[TSMDude]

Baaleos wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...

FireWraith wrote...

I sort of hope they are reading it. Can they be blocked? Absolutely. Are there ways for them to try and do more? Sure, there's lots of ways to cause trouble on the internet - though you tend to cross into violations of your contract with your ISP, not to mention illegal actions that, with sufficient evidence, can land people in serious legal trouble. It's entirely possible for people to find themselves disconnected from the internet entirely, or meeting up with the nice men in suits.

Can you get away with it against someone who's just hosting from their home computer with no real knowledge of how to deal with this stuff? Probably. Are some of these servers hosted elsewhere, at places that take hostile activity very seriously - and I don't just mean logging in to try and PVP players, we're talking denial of service, account or identity theft, unauthorized access to a system, et cetera - Yes, there are.  Even something like accessing someone else's Gmail account by guessing their password reset questions is a Federal Felony, and there are people in prison because of it.

Good luck with that.

You admins and player from these HCRP persistent worlds are take it too seriously when this is just a game. And because if it, they can gain a pleasure from pissing you off, saying BSs like this and giving them fame and attention which is what they got from it. I used to do it too, I liked the playing with server's staff and show them they can't fight with me and I enjoyed it because they took it too seriously, they believed they are something more than rest of us, though they weren't.

Now I don't do that anymore and I am working on my own PW and I can tell you, that they wouldn't be interested in griefing on my module at all since I have no rules, players can do what they want, if they willing to accept consequences. So you will PK low level characters? OK, so we delevel you, so your victims could do this to you too, etc.
+ since I know how to cheat I also know how to prevent it, so none of their voodoo would work.


I mean, tell peoples they mustn't do this, that and that and a whole list of restriction and there will be always someone who do this, because you just told him how he can ****** you off, tell the childerns to not to lick the frozen stair-rail and they will do it. Just to try it what happens, just for fun or because they got bored.

Hear Hear @ ShaDoOoW

I fully agree,
Everyone getting their knickers in a bunch over game servers etc, is very petty, and especially when the game is meant to be about coming together to play.
Not banding together to fight other servers.

I know a server that has poorly designed areas, laggy areas etc, that caused clients to crash and disconnect,
and the area designer/artist as she calls herself, used to tell people
"You need to tinker with settings on your graphics card to get rid of the lag"

When players didnt like this, she and the Server Admin came up with a story that their server was under attack from another rival server, and that it was suffering lag as result of DOS Attacks.

After a Month of this story, and telling her players that the FBI were involved and tracking the perps down, it was revealed that she had a dodgy router and the Server returned to a somewhat less laggy state, never the less, clients still crash when entering that badly designed area.

This is an example of
Server A tries to mitigate their own Short Comings by Blaming Scapegoat B.

Lets not forget that Servers Run Modules.
Modules by the very definition of the name, are independant, and modular components.

One server should not be suffering by consequence of another server, I would never try to blame my own population problems on another server.
Im too laid back for that,
Its only a game after all.

Neither of your post has anything to do with what we are discussing. No one is blaming another server at all. All servers are actually welcome to join in this. We have now 12 servers involved because this a small group of people looking to knock other servers offline for the fun of it. Not to make thier servers better as they have no server. it is just about logging in and destroying other people's toons for the fun of it.

Please do not confuse the issue. None of the servers involved have ever claimed the FBI are involved (funny btw) or anything of the sorts. This is purely and simply stopping some cyber bullying from some very small minded individuals who like to quote Mein Kampf of all things.

Does it offend me that they do quote this? Not really as anyone who follows a warped crossdressing fool like Adolf deserves to be pitied rather than hated. Being of Jewish faith I am more inclinded to think wow...what a fool rather than ever get angry.