251 réponses à ce sujet

[Metaldwarf]

Quilver wrote...

GLoRToR wrote...

Apparently telenet.be is the isp that this guy uses.
We had him, we reported him to his isp for ddos attempts.
He logged in from another city, likely divorced parents or somesuch.
I urge all admins to keep sending logs of him ddosing and screenshots of him harrassing to his isp. If it becomes a daily issue that they receive such emails, they are likely to take action simply because of the amount of feedback.

They're attacking the module, not the server. There are a few exploits that allow players to crash modules, but they exist within NWN. That is entirely different to DDoS.

You shouldn't really be making accusations of criminal activity on a public forum, either.

Edited to add: If you have proof that he has hacked the server rather than exploited the game, then you aren't necessarily in the wrong. But if you don't have proof, you're actually breaking the law by accusing another of criminal activity.

Unless you think Glortor is defaming or slandering the hacker/potential criminal, then he certainly has not broken a law. However, if what TSMDude says is true and since he's a good man it probably is true, then this POS is more than just your neighborhood griefer.Whether the hacker is over 18 remains to be seen, and  if so then he certainly has broken laws and it would be fantastic to see action taken against him.

[TSMDude]

Metaldwarf wrote...

Quilver wrote...

GLoRToR wrote...

Apparently telenet.be is the isp that this guy uses.
We had him, we reported him to his isp for ddos attempts.
He logged in from another city, likely divorced parents or somesuch.
I urge all admins to keep sending logs of him ddosing and screenshots of him harrassing to his isp. If it becomes a daily issue that they receive such emails, they are likely to take action simply because of the amount of feedback.

They're attacking the module, not the server. There are a few exploits that allow players to crash modules, but they exist within NWN. That is entirely different to DDoS.

You shouldn't really be making accusations of criminal activity on a public forum, either.

Edited to add: If you have proof that he has hacked the server rather than exploited the game, then you aren't necessarily in the wrong. But if you don't have proof, you're actually breaking the law by accusing another of criminal activity.

Unless you think Glortor is defaming or slandering the hacker/potential criminal, then he certainly has not broken a law. However, if what TSMDude says is true and since he's a good man it probably is true, then this POS is more than just your neighborhood griefer.Whether the hacker is over 18 remains to be seen, and  if so then he certainly has broken laws and it would be fantastic to see action taken against him.

Actually we have talked several times to the authoritys and sent logs of him harrassing of a sexual nature to underage players as well. The man, and I hesitate to say man, is in a country that seriously frowns upon sexual predation as he seems to think he can do.

Between his griefing and such like, his extremely bizarre fetishes he tries to force upon any player he thinks is female, and his contuined attacks on not only servers but trollish behaviour on forums and out right attacks of said forums which have been documented by several PWs and thier admins I would say this (as Metal says) POS (a very ample description btw) fits the classic impotent male who has neither social skills to function as human being in the real world...but hey, that is just my view.

The reason so many of us have banned together is to share documents and send in daily complaints on the man until he is removed or finds an easier target.

Oh and Quilver, I know you have stuck up for this man many a time. Using the name you are using is decieving as I know that you are not the old Quilver who shared the view that Griefers were indeed the stains found on underwear after a trip South of the Border. It is a shame you took his name and do not realize this.

[Fellanor]

Hate to say it, but Quilver is 100% right. Making accusations of criminal activity, if unfounded, is against the law. If they are founded, and this guy is really orchestrating DDoS attacks against your server, Glortor, then you are fine. But I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess this griefer kid isn't doing anything more than using an NWN plug-in to crash your mod. That wouldn't DDoS, because he wouldn't be breaking into your system. Just doing a very, very annoying exploit.

Also, I'm seeing this as a lash-out more than anything. I understand that the griefer(s) hit The Silver Marches pretty hard. The irony here is that if you keep publically slandering him, he will probably want to hurt you more. You may well coax him into doing something illegal, but what would that achieve? For now, the NWN Greifers have just been an annoyance. But, as far as I'm aware, they have not done anything illegal. Heck, Gamespy and Forumer haven't even shut them out.

[Sona_]

Greifing people on NWN isn't a DDOS attack. If they are indeed making true DDOS attacks then that's a different story. Generally if they're just on to go kill people, it's just a minor annoyance.

However, harassing and sexual comments towards underage players is illegal.

[TSMDude]

Unture Fellanor as they have indeed done things illegally to several servers and actually have not been as hard hit as some. Way back in this thread I stated this and will again,

This is not just one server. This is 25 PWs who have stepped up and started combatting these people. It is only slander if is untrue and then if it was even a crimminal offense then half the blogosphere would be in jail would it not?

It never ceases to amaze me how folks hide behind this wall of the Internet. It is sad really. It takes us ten minutes to block someone and we just laugh it off and move on as we are not young guys and gals who get all Second Life angry at some griefer. We feel total pity tbh for such folks who cannot find any enjoyment in life but to ruin someone elses. The sad fact is when they do crash our server or someone elses we just shrug send the reports of thier IPS to thier home town and watch the case contuine to build.

Anyhow...happy gaming folks!

Modifié par TSMDude, 28 mai 2011 - 10:50 .

[Quilver]

Couple of things:

a) There seems to be a tendency to assume that it is one guy doing all the griefing. Why assume this? The NWN Greifers clearly have at least several people in their ranks. FRC, for example, was hit by 3 very active griefers in the period before it got closed down.

This sexual harassment does sound serious, but again, is there any actual evidence of it? Or is it more hearsay? Did the female player he harassed complain, or are you complaining on their behalf? From what I understand, the female player who was harassed was also banned from TSM, so maybe they are partners in crime? Sexual talk online is, of course, perfectly legal. Sexual harassment is a different matter, but the line between the two is often hazey. For example, if the female is continuing the conversation but slightly weirded out, then is that harassment or a mutual discussion?

My main point is this: Be careful. It is important to know the full details of the matter, and to have complete evidence. If you are not careful, then you are potentially also breaking the law by slandering.

[Fellanor]

Online sexual harassment cases are generally only pursued if the harasser is/was actively trying to meet up in reality. Otherwise, the argument is: "Just ignore the text you're seeing on the screen?" Harsh, but... You enter any online chat room and you are going to get sexually harassed. That's just the Internet. The authorities are only really interested if the harasser is actually pushing to meet up, or 'grooming' an underage girl for sex, etc. But, for all we know, it's some 15 year-old boy hitting on a 15 year-old girl on the web.

[TSMDude]

Quilver wrote...

Couple of things:

a) There seems to be a tendency to assume that it is one guy doing all the griefing. Why assume this? The NWN Greifers clearly have at least several people in their ranks. FRC, for example, was hit by 3 very active griefers in the period before it got closed down.

This sexual harassment does sound serious, but again, is there any actual evidence of it? Or is it more hearsay? Did the female player he harassed complain, or are you complaining on their behalf? From what I understand, the female player who was harassed was also banned from TSM, so maybe they are partners in crime? Sexual talk online is, of course, perfectly legal. Sexual harassment is a different matter, but the line between the two is often hazey. For example, if the female is continuing the conversation but slightly weirded out, then is that harassment or a mutual discussion?

My main point is this: Be careful. It is important to know the full details of the matter, and to have complete evidence. If you are not careful, then you are potentially also breaking the law by slandering.

I see your couple of things and raise you a few of my own.

1/ If it was one person then I would agree. 2 people saying he is harrassing them maybe even a cowinkydink. 3 is a pattern and honestly, would we have sent it to the proper authorties if we did not have proof, logs, and even in 2 spots that have 2 different players stating they were 15 and him saying if they would have cybersex with him he would leave the server alone? I mean cmon...that smacks of such desperation it is quite laughable if it was not so pitiful.

2/ You seem to know a lot about the griefers and even take pains to spell thier name right....

And as a added bonus one more thought;

I welcome "them" to press any slandering charges against me. Please by all means put your name down on a complaint form in my home town. I live here in Orlando, FL. I can give you the name and number of the police department closest if you wish. I have left my name, number and address without hesitant with the proper authorties when I sent the info and check back almost daily and post more info for them. Please do the same if you will.
 

[Svneati]

Just as a public service announcement:

Law Enforcement doesn't give a **** about internet D&D. Otherwise, Social would've been raided hundreds of times by the FBI for all sorts of disgusting depravity and abuse of minors.

That is all.

Modifié par Svneati, 29 mai 2011 - 01:00 .

[Sona_]

There is a big difference between someone playing on a server that requires you to be 18 when they are underage, and someone sending sexual messages to someone who they know is underage in an environment that is supposed to be friendly to ages under 18. There are acts in the USA which protect minors on the internet, but they are not easy to enforce and require a lot of evidence. Who knows if this actually exsists, but in the end it doesn't matter. Either this will blow over or action will be taken.

All that said, I had a dummy account on the NWgreifer's boards, along with 3 other friends. All four of us would get desperate e-mails from Merselpath begging us to support him on these boards or join him in targeting a server he hates when his other buddy got bored. I'm sure people can guess what account he wanted us to post in agreement with.

Modifié par Sona_, 29 mai 2011 - 07:19 .

[PurpleDragonKnight]

My two cents:

These griefers are basically playing the game in a different way to us. We are roleplaying, while they are chasing us round with a great axe. Is that annoying? Yes. Is that lame? Yes. Is that illegal? No. It is never illegal to break the rules of a gaming server, and the authorities are likely to laugh off your claims. DDoS has been mentioned - That is Distributed Denial of Service attack. That requires a multitude of people and computers flooding the server with pings or what not. So, your firewall would show hundreds of different IPs attacking you, and your best bet is to report as many of them as you can. But did that happen? I find it unlikely. From what I've seen so far, NWN players tend to exaggerate bad things which happen to them. These griefers are an annoyance, but nothing more than that. They are playing the game in a way which suits them - a selfish, combative way, but that is allowed (whether we like it or not).

[Baragg]

I wish someone would harass me, in a sexual manner that is.

[TSMDude]

PurpleDragonKnight wrote...
 DDoS has been mentioned - That is Distributed Denial of Service attack. That requires a multitude of people and computers flooding the server with pings or what not. So, your firewall would show hundreds of different IPs attacking you, and your best bet is to report as many of them as you can.

You can do a DDoS with just one peson. It is not hard to do tbh.

Modifié par TSMDude, 29 mai 2011 - 01:59 .

[Quilver]

DDoS does indeed require many, many attackers. To bring down a standard game server would take a minimum of 50 different network connections sending pings. You certainly can't do it with one person, or even 10. If it's one person, then it's not DDoS. Then again, TSMDude tells us that it is not hard to do. Got something to confess?

[TSMDude]

Quilver wrote...

DDoS does indeed require many, many attackers. To bring down a standard game server would take a minimum of 50 different network connections sending pings. You certainly can't do it with one person, or even 10. If it's one person, then it's not DDoS. Then again, TSMDude tells us that it is not hard to do. Got something to confess?

Unture again Quill...man you must get tired of being wrong. With one computer you can easily do it.

[TSMDude]

All it take sis one computer to intiate a protocol that releases several handler computers/nonoperated fellows and viola. You have a DDoS. i know because I worked for fightthesmears.com during Obama's Presidental run and we constantly dealt whith trolls, thugs and desperate scriptkiddy fanboys constantly and I am not even a pc guy and know this.

[Quilver]

In that case you are suggesting he has compromised about 50 other computers, which is an even more serious allegation.

[TSMDude]

Quilver wrote...

In that case you are suggesting he has compromised about 50 other computers, which is an even more serious allegation.

Well you better report me to the proper authorties for slandering again...is that your next move? The Orlando Police Departments phone number is (321)235-5000 if you wish to make a complaint on behalf of whoever.

Look forward to hearing from you Quil/MS.

Modifié par TSMDude, 29 mai 2011 - 04:07 .

[Zanzibarr]

I might be able to offer some insight, because I am one of the aforementioned dummies who joined the 'NWN Greifers' forums along with 2 others (Which one are you, Sona?). I got a pretty good look into the minds of the griefers. There appear to be about 5 active griefers in their ranks. Btw, I didn't get those emails, Sona_? I was on the mailing list (and still am, I think). I do recall Merselpath saying something similar to GLoRToR, in that if you keep pressing the case, haranguing the forums/host/ISP, then you can get action taken. Their first forum on ProBoards got shut down. There were no mentions of these forums (social.bioware.com), though.

I did get a good look into the minds of these griefers. What surprised me is that they seemed to be friendly to each other. I expected it to be like the 4chan forums, but it was civil enough. There appeared to be two fairly smart guys at the top, and the other three were idiotic stooges. It wouldn't surprise me much if they did engage in illegal activities, because they seemed crazy enough to. Surprisingly, Forumer hasn't shut them down yet. I and another member contacted Forumer about it, but we didn't get a response. Maybe they just haven't checked them out yet, but it's also possibly because they are being more sneaky and careful to not sound like psychos.

What was strikingly clear to me was that they had too much time on their hands, especially Merselpath. I mean, they were dissing the players who spend their lives RPing in a fantasy world, but they probably put in almost as many hours targetting and griefing them. There was no talk of hacking, though. One stat-boosting 'technique' was posted, but there wasn't really any other juicy information. The forums were mainly focussed on the operational side of things, and they seemed to take pleasure in doing the same thing over and over again (raiding servers and posting the screenshots of people dying).

[Quilver]

TSMDude wrote...

Quilver wrote...

In that case you are suggesting he has compromised about 50 other computers, which is an even more serious allegation.

Well you better report me to the proper authorties for slandering again...is that your next move? The Orlando Police Departments phone number is (321)235-5000 if you wish to make a complaint on behalf of whoever.

Look forward to hearing from you Quil/MS.

Why would I report you? I am telling you to be careful.

If you do wish to make claims of illegal activity, then it is always necessary to post the evidence. That is what I am warning you of.

What's more, these forums are not a place to be airing dirty laundry. If you think someone has broken the law, you report them to the appropriate authorities. Naming and shaming on a public forum is not a good idea in any circumstance.

[Fellanor]

I'm reporting this thread. It is just going round and round in circles. By arguing with each other, we are not helping the fight against griefers. What we need to be focussing is how to root out griefing - Not bickering about law enforcement. Making sarcastic jibes and petty slander also reflects badly on those particular posters.

[Quilver]

No, I'm with you Fellanor. This thread has probably run its course. But, if someone is going to make an accusation, then they need to give the full evidence behind it. Vague accusations without substance reflects terribly on those individuals, and they don't seem to realise it.

Also, I am tempted to report one particular poster for his generally derisive attitude and for appearing to accuse me of being someone else ('MS'). However, I know that most people take what this particular poster says with a pinch of salt, and the best strategy is usually to ignore the blatant trolls..

[TSMDude]

The sheer irony of you two saying that is amazing to me. I literaly loled out loud here when Quilver a name associated with a Mob of Squirrels and Fellanor of all people (How is Strugart this time of the year btw?) are threatening to report me....oh...thank you fellows for a great laugh today.

I wish you well and will check in on Tuesday as tomorrow is Memorial Day and have to see some friends about a BBQ.

[Shadooow]

PurpleDragonKnight wrote...

These griefers are basically playing the game in a different way to us. We are roleplaying, while they are chasing us round with a great axe. Is that annoying? Yes. Is that lame? Yes. Is that illegal? No. It is never illegal to break the rules of a gaming server, and the authorities are likely to laugh off your claims.

this

[NWN DM]

Why is it when an man talks dirty to a woman, it's called sexual harassment, but when a woman talks dirty to a man it's $19.95/minute?