77 réponses à ce sujet

[brazen_nl]

Lumikki wrote...

SuicidialBaby wrote...


There is an understanding here some people are not understanding.  If you select Nightmare, you're doing it to challenge yourself.  Why would you allow an NPC to cheese an encounter for you if the point of your initial difficulty selection is to challenge yourself.  There is an inheirant flaw in logic if you think running away is a valid option during this encounter on nightmare.

Because only idiot does it hard way when they don't have to, when there is easyer tactical sulution. It's would be same as if you want challenge, just gimp you characters, because that's how the real mens do. Every intelligent players allways tries to find easyer solutions to situations. You flaw is that wanting challenge means we turn our brains off to get it.

Sorry, if it was little hard way to sayed, but that's how it is.

Idiot? It's the idiot that doesn't apply correct tactics and strategy, making the fight uneccesarily hard.

Sorry, if it was little hard way to sayed, but that's how it is.

[brazen_nl]

mokponobi wrote...

brazen_nl wrote...

Hey Luc0s, us Dutchies have to stick together!

Here's a vid on how I did Tranquility on nightmare. It has voice comments and it's easy on the pace. I hope you get something out of it!

EDIT: Done as 2H warrior, since poasting vids of rogues doesn't help the OP at all ...

Watching your vids is always fun, for many reasons, the main ones being clarity and you have a very calm voice. So thanks.

I'm glad you appreciate the effort! Remember, if you have any requests, drop 'm in the forum, and I'm sure someone will pick it up. My only hope is that by watching the video you enjoy the game a little more and maybe even learn something from it.

[mokponobi]

@ lumikki
I think what SuicidalBaby is saying is just that this particular encounter can be completed without running away, and possibly trying to convey that there is a greater sense of satisfaction you get from completing it that way.

Re-positioning is very necessary sometimes, I can think of several fights where you have to or your entire team will be wiped out in seconds.

For this fight though, it's not necessary, you can do it but you don't really need to, as evidenced by several vids above.

Modifié par mokponobi, 10 mai 2011 - 04:21 .

[Lumikki]

brazen_nl wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

SuicidialBaby wrote...


There is an understanding here some people are not understanding.  If you select Nightmare, you're doing it to challenge yourself.  Why would you allow an NPC to cheese an encounter for you if the point of your initial difficulty selection is to challenge yourself.  There is an inheirant flaw in logic if you think running away is a valid option during this encounter on nightmare.

Because only idiot does it hard way when they don't have to, when there is easyer tactical sulution. It's would be same as if you want challenge, just gimp you characters, because that's how the real mens do. Every intelligent players allways tries to find easyer solutions to situations. You flaw is that wanting challenge means we turn our brains off to get it.

Sorry, if it was little hard way to sayed, but that's how it is.

Idiot? It's the idiot that doesn't apply correct tactics and strategy, making the fight uneccesarily hard.

Sorry, if it was little hard way to sayed, but that's how it is.

Yes, I agree. That is same what I sayed. Meaning if player refuse to use all strategy options, like running away when it has advances. Example You can do exactly same what you do in first location in second location. Only difference is that second wave doesn't drop in same locations. That is strategy.

[brazen_nl]

I can't think of any fight where I needed to reposition. It's all a question of strategy and using a correct setup for tactics.

Does this mean that you suck and I rule? Of course not! The way I have learned to play this game is by watching others tackle fights and trying to learn from it, instead of running away and not trying to learn alternative, probably better ways. Mind you, I don't think running away is bad, it's just not for me.

With regards to SuicidialBaby ... Why do you think the guy is severely anal about tactics? Because it's more than 50% of the fight. No correct tactics and not using a correct strategy means you get wiped. Unless you like to micro-manage, but that's also just not me.

For what's it's worth, I do get a greater satisfaction by not running away. If I die or need more than one or two health potions (on tactics for my party, I don't like to take even a single one), it means I did something wrong and there is probably a smarter way to handle the fight. That's just how the game is for me.

[Lumikki]

mokponobi wrote...

@ lumikki
I think what SuicidalBaby is saying is just that this particular encounter can be completed without running away, and possibly trying to convey that there is a greater sense of satisfaction you get from completing it that way.

Yes, but OP who asked help because he had problems with this combat. So he asked "better" strategy what would make it easyer.  Not someone to come say, You can do it, with better challenge by staying put. Player who can do the situation easy, could do it because better challenge, but that was not OP case here.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 mai 2011 - 04:37 .

[mr_afk]

Also health potions could be better dumped into storage so you can hoard up massive amounts and feel good about yourself.

Atm i have ~100 of each type. Which unfortunately is about the equivalent of 10g. Oh well.


But yes, running away somehow detracts from some of the satisfaction as it is almost abusing the game mechanics/playing the game different from what it was designed. For example, I killed the arishok simply by autoattacks by using a nifty gravitic ring glitch I found. While yes, i finished probably at the same speed or faster than I would have if I had played it properly (running up and down screaming like a little girl) but when I won it was no way near as satisfying.

p.s. @brazen - compared to you everybody sucks

[SuicidalBaby]

Lumikki, you must think I believe repositioning and running away(kiting) are the same thing. They are not. In this instance there is a unique situation of an immortal ally who can and will tank the hunter all day while a group that moved away can kill single targets at will. This is what defines what you suggest to do as kiting.  It is detracting from the entire purpose of setting the difficulty to nightmare.

I can give examples of how to defeat this encounter at any level from 4 to 12. It is not a difficult fight unless you make it one by ignoring the basic traits each enemy displays.

You can do it, with better challenge by staying put. Player who can do the situation easy, could do it because better challenge, but that was not OP case here.

What I said was, " you can do it, this is how."  Then I backed up my statements when critics and detractors started in on my reasoning by explaining why one should do it that way.  It is easier than running away.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 10 mai 2011 - 04:48 .

[brazen_nl]

mr_afk wrote...

p.s. @brazen - compared to you everybody sucks

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Someone should kill you. KILL YOU WITH FIRE!

I just get all riled up when people play the omnipresent kiting card. This game is so much fun to me because there is so much you can learn from other players. Eg. loved your use of Wounds of the Past on groups in your latest vid. You can bet your bee-hind I'm going to try that out and see how I can apply it and better myself.

Try and teach something specific, I dare say. Words are easy, post a vid with the same Hawke as the player and help him out. This will help with later fights and increase the enjoyment.

[Lumikki]

Running away for me means in this case, you run in other location so you don't get droped second wave top of you. Maybe we had some miss understanding here? Second location is less risky than stay put and you can use same tactics there too.

Sorry about the mixup..

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 mai 2011 - 04:52 .

[mr_afk]

brazen_nl wrote...

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Someone should kill you. KILL YOU WITH FIRE!

Hahaha 

I just get all riled up when people play the omnipresent kiting card. This game is so much fun to me because there is so much you can learn from other players. Eg. loved your use of Wounds of the Past on groups in your latest vid. You can bet your bee-hind I'm going to try that out and see how I can apply it and better myself.

Try and teach something specific, I dare say. Words are easy, post a vid with the same Hawke as the player and help him out. This will help with later fights and increase the enjoyment.

Yeah I suppose. The only kiting I allow myself is during the prologue. I am pretty sure that it is impossible to kill that ogre without kiting.. though it is quite amusing to watch it trample all it's friends while you run circles around it.

And I think we're a little different in a way. I like watching and learning from other players but the main thing I enjoy is coming up with new concepts/strategies. Coming up with a new setup that works really well to me is immeasurably more sastisfying than for example following one of Arelex's guides (even though they are well written and do work amazingly).

And as for the posting a vid with the same hawke.....that's going to be really tough unless I drag out loads of maker's sighs as all my builds are to experimental/strange to compare really haha
I'm somewhat regretting how glassy my hawke is atm. I'm using act 1 armour (so crap all armour-rating) and drawing heaps of threat as I keep dishing out heaps of damage...but it's all worth it because I've got the buzzing controller back again! I can honestly say my mage is a crit-mage now! 

[brazen_nl]

mr_afk wrote...

And as for the posting a vid with the same hawke.....that's going to be really tough unless I drag out loads of maker's sighs as all my builds are to experimental/strange to compare really haha
I'm somewhat regretting how glassy my hawke is atm. I'm using act 1 armour (so crap all armour-rating) and drawing heaps of threat as I keep dishing out heaps of damage...but it's all worth it because I've got the buzzing controller back again! I can honestly say my mage is a crit-mage now! 

Yeah, wasn't directed at you. You are already one of the most helpful people on this forum.

How's the crit mage going? You must love the new DLC staff, then! Sadly, it's a spirit staff. <_<

Glass Hawke ftw! Less CON, more POWAH! 

[tonnactus]

kcman5 wrote...

I don't even use the "Retreat ' tactic. Just focus fire the Templar Hunter and the rest is easy mode..

Unless he just decide to dissapear right when the stagger symbol above his head displays...

[mokponobi]

tonnactus wrote...

kcman5 wrote...

I don't even use the "Retreat ' tactic. Just focus fire the Templar Hunter and the rest is easy mode..

Unless he just decide to dissapear right when the stagger symbol above his head displays...

This is an easy one, if you watch vids from Arelex or Brazen_nl, you can take a couple of tips about this.

1. stagger or brittle assassin when thier stealth in on cool down, ie, they just came out of stealth or are interrupted or busy.

2. if you can't and they go into stealth, have something off cooldown that breaks thier stealth, cone of cold, whirlwind, pull of the abyss etc.


see, we learn stuff.

[mr_afk]

brazen_nl wrote...

Yeah, wasn't directed at you. You are already one of the most helpful people on this forum.

How's the crit mage going? You must love the new DLC staff, then! Sadly, it's a spirit staff. <_<

Glass Hawke ftw! Less CON, more POWAH! 

Anything to procrastinate doing anything actually productive..haha
Crit-mage is going pretty good I guess. I can't remember what damage-values are the normal at level 21 so I can't tell how good this build is relatively but it's killing things pretty fast which is what counts right? 
I might go check some videos but I can't recall many late-game mage videos out there..so i might have to do some calcs instead. Blehh how un-fun.

Anyway, I think I might do a quick compliation of some fights with my new build. Well, same build with less armour and more crits. Who needs armour when you can get more damage instead 


And yep, that staff is the only reason why my build works! and spirit is great- it either does pretty decent damage or hits an immunity. Also, the lack of +% spirit and physical gear is the whole reason for my build. 

 

[Att3r0]

S&S tanking Tranquility no dog ;]
I belive the hunter spawns after certain of mobs is dead i used that fact and killed LT first - his slow is really annoying. Didnt use CCC

[tonnactus]

mokponobi wrote...


1. stagger or brittle assassin when thier stealth in on cool down,

If they have cooldowns at all for that.Arelex showed a vid where a carta assasin dissapear like 2-3 seconds after he went out of stealth and backstab aveline...

And they have already two moves that made them invisible.The backflip evade jump(retarded,this doesnt make your own rogues invisible) and the "regular" stealth.On nightmare,they do one of this mooves like every 3 seconds.

[SuicidalBaby]

Waaaambulance to page 3 please.

[mokponobi]

tonnactus wrote...

mokponobi wrote...


1. stagger or brittle assassin when thier stealth in on cool down,

If they have cooldowns at all for that.Arelex showed a vid where a carta assasin dissapear like 2-3 seconds after he went out of stealth and backstab aveline...

And they have already two moves that made them invisible.The backflip evade jump(retarded,this doesnt make your own rogues invisible) and the "regular" stealth.On nightmare,they do one of this mooves like every 3 seconds.

Yea, there are 2 ways that they stealth, in addition to the stealth-to-stabintheback move. So, if you know that and if you see them, then don't give them 2 to 3 seconds to do anything. Stagger, brittle, grenade, stun lock them down and CCC or bash them to death.

If they do manage to do one of the first 2, use one of the methods to unstealth then, then refer to tactic above. Nothing you can do about the backstab move, just take it and refer to the above tactic if you survive.

[Darqion]

This fight was only really hard for me the first time i came across it just because it was the first nasty rogue i met. Dealing with the rogue is off course high priority. cleaning up the trash before it spawns is easy enough and when he spawns you can just focus fire, use CC if you have too, even a knockback will be enough to do some serious damage.

If he does stealth before he dies, you can try AOE to decloack or just move your tank to the exact spot he disappeared and make sure the tank has full hp. Having some form of CCC makes this fight quite easy too. But eh... rogues tend to stealth quite often, but i wouldnt go as far as saying they do it every 3 seconds

[turian councilor Knockout]

This fight is easy enough without spells like firestorm, tempest and running away, just taunt and hold aggro with Aveline and there are endless ways to win this fight.

[SuicidalBaby]

The problem with just taunting is that the 3 sword & shield normal templars have this tactic:

enemy: nearest visable mage: attack

if you do not have damage on them from a secondary source, i.e. a scythe from Carver; Fireball from a mage; Bursting Arrow from Varric, they will ignore a simple taunt. The taunt must come after they take damage from a source while they are not targeting Aveline. This can be instantly after the damage, it doesnt require the actual visual of them attacking, just targeting.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 11 mai 2011 - 12:34 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

The problem with just taunting is that the 3 sword & shield normal templars have this tactic:

enemy: nearest visable mage: attack

if you do not have damage on them from a secondary source, i.e. a scythe from Carver; Fireball from a mage; Bursting Arrow from Varric, they will ignore a simple taunt. The taunt must come after they take damage from a source while they are not targeting Aveline. This can be instantly after the damage, it doesnt require the actual visual of them attacking, just targeting.

Yep, i agree but casting powerful AoE spells pulls you massive threat and your mage gets slaughtered anyway so it's a race to kill them before they attacks your mage and besides 3 normal enemies isn't much of a threat.

[SuicidalBaby]

they are when their deaths trigger a templar hunter. this paticular situation calls for control of them while the LT is killed first or at the latest 3rd out of the first 5 enemies. the abilities i mentioned wont do more than simply damage them for <20% which gives the taunt a level of threat to jump off of. The only true mass damage ability that is called for would be Cone of Cold.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 11 mai 2011 - 01:57 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

they are when their deaths trigger a templar hunter. this paticular situation calls for control of them while the LT is killed first or at the latest 3rd out of the first 5 enemies.

Well, thats why have spells like petrify and horror to lock up the hunter with.