[/quote]
Not really.
The Maker is a god and you can't "rise" much further than that.[/quote]
The maker is the god of the chantry, which is made up by andraste, who could possibly be flemeth. meaning that he may not be a "god" but also a powerful being, or something else entirely. might even be possible this maker "made" the darkspawn to "kill" the old gods/forgotten ones.
Sandal's PROPHECY!
Débuté par
Brockololly
, mars 12 2011 03:22
Retour en haut
#102
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 12:26
gombie
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another thing "Elven legend attributes the failure of their gods to intervene in the fall of Elvhenan to Fen'Harel, who, it is claimed, deceived both the elven pantheon and the Forgotten Ones, trapping the former away in heaven and the latter in the abyss, where they could no longer influence events in the mortal world"
the old god/forgotten ones's minds are trapped in the fade. the fade is the heaven? the maker's golden city is depicted as a heaven by the chantry religion?
theres so many possiblities....
the old god/forgotten ones's minds are trapped in the fade. the fade is the heaven? the maker's golden city is depicted as a heaven by the chantry religion?
theres so many possiblities....
#103
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 12:42
WhiteKnyght
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You know, what if the "Maker" isn't really a god and is in fact some terrible evil.
The possibility reminds me of the game Luminous Arc where the god Zahaal that the church worshiped was actually an evil diety who wanted to destroy the world, not save it.
The possibility reminds me of the game Luminous Arc where the god Zahaal that the church worshiped was actually an evil diety who wanted to destroy the world, not save it.
#104
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 01:19
KenKenpachi
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The Grey Nayr wrote...
You know, what if the "Maker" isn't really a god and is in fact some terrible evil.
The possibility reminds me of the game Luminous Arc where the god Zahaal that the church worshiped was actually an evil diety who wanted to destroy the world, not save it.
Oh that would be a good plot twist. But I doubt it in a manner, still the Maker would have cause to be pissed if you go off what the Chantry says. Maybe Sadal is Telling us he's coming back to kick ass and chew bubblegum, but he's all out of Gum.
Or Sandal is some sort of powerful being himself. And may be refering to himself in part of this. Two mountains of dead seem to say yes to this.
#105
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 01:21
android654
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Blacklash93 wrote...
Not really.Haristo wrote...
MerchantGOL wrote...
He = The Maker?
THAT'S make sense.
The Maker is a god and you can't "rise" much further than that.
From Da:O
Your Warden to Laliana: "The Chantry says The Maker has left us."
Looks like he might come back. Also, the Chantry has proven not to be so... trustworthy, so perhaps "The Maker" isn't the only god to be revered.
#106
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 01:25
WhiteKnyght
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One thing that is kinda odd to me about Bodhan in DAII is that Bodhan is supposed to have a wife in Denerim but he and Sandal stay in Kirkwall for years to be Hawke's servants.
#107
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 01:39
KenKenpachi
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Hmm maybe its Bodhan that is the servent. And he's covering for Sandal..
#108
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 01:42
Darian Tylmare
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Maybe it's reffering to whatever lurks in the idoll from the deep roads. Risenagain from the dark making all people violently insane, paranoid or whatever.
Maybe it's like the Soul Reaver now and tends to wait for a fitting host.
Or, as I speculated elsewhere, this was Flemeth's real objective. Recovering the idol to increase her power further.
Maybe it's like the Soul Reaver now and tends to wait for a fitting host.
Or, as I speculated elsewhere, this was Flemeth's real objective. Recovering the idol to increase her power further.
#109
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 01:53
Xaeon
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Interesting theories! But if I could shed some light on the Architect:
According to the Novel, the Architect has been trying to find peace between darkspawns and everyone else since even before King Maric retook Fereldan. And the Architect's ultimate goal is to have everyone drink the taint and transform into a darkspawn hybrid...which is what becomes of all Grey Wardens if they don't kill themselves by going into the Deep Roads when they hear the Calling. His plan to do so with the Orlesians was foiled by Maric though.
In the book, one of the Grey Wardens accompanying King Maric, a dwarven silent sister, took up the Architect's offer to accelerate the Calling and turn herself into a hybrid. She also appears in Awakening along with the Architect.
Whether or not the Architect is killed, it wouldn't make any difference as he has quite a number of "converts" who know of his plans even before Origins. And Duncan's body was never recovered at Ostagar, he could have been whisked away by the hybrids for all we know.
According to the Novel, the Architect has been trying to find peace between darkspawns and everyone else since even before King Maric retook Fereldan. And the Architect's ultimate goal is to have everyone drink the taint and transform into a darkspawn hybrid...which is what becomes of all Grey Wardens if they don't kill themselves by going into the Deep Roads when they hear the Calling. His plan to do so with the Orlesians was foiled by Maric though.
In the book, one of the Grey Wardens accompanying King Maric, a dwarven silent sister, took up the Architect's offer to accelerate the Calling and turn herself into a hybrid. She also appears in Awakening along with the Architect.
Whether or not the Architect is killed, it wouldn't make any difference as he has quite a number of "converts" who know of his plans even before Origins. And Duncan's body was never recovered at Ostagar, he could have been whisked away by the hybrids for all we know.
Modifié par Xaeon, 14 mars 2011 - 01:56 .
#110
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 01:58
KenKenpachi
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Hmm...so could Sandal be one of these hybrids?
#111
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 02:00
Alanosborn1991
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A Duncan/ Darkspawn hybrid who talks to you in DA3 about all the events and wants you to support darkspawn? That would be awesome!
#112
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 02:06
Valdorick
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As I recall, didn't Anders cause Karl to reconnect to the fade, even after being made Tranquil. What if a powerful enough abomination comes along that all of the Tranquil get their magic back? Better yet, what if the Maker is just a Fade spirit, and the “taint” was just like what happened with Anders and Justice; a Tevinter Mage, possibly pure in intent but fettered in spirit, joined with “the maker”, the most powerful of fade spirits and tainted him.
This abomination, who’s been dormant all this time, awakens, and suddenly, the line between the fade and Thedas vanishes, a rift appears, and everything gets magic, for better or for worse.
... But eh, too far fetched.
This abomination, who’s been dormant all this time, awakens, and suddenly, the line between the fade and Thedas vanishes, a rift appears, and everything gets magic, for better or for worse.
... But eh, too far fetched.
#113
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 02:07
Hawkamania
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This is an awesome discussion. So many great directions for this story to go, hopefully most of us we'll be satisfied once the full story is told in later game(s).
#114
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 02:16
Alneverus
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I suspect it Sandal's prophecy has to do with the OGB. The main reason is if you start a new game without importing your save the DEFAULT history has the Warden surviving the battle with the Archdemon, if I recall correctly.
Chances are that thing gives them the most ability to play around with. However, if you import without taking the deal I imagine they'll use something else.
Chances are that thing gives them the most ability to play around with. However, if you import without taking the deal I imagine they'll use something else.
#115
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 05:10
gombie
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well the maker's city was in the fade, so yea hes probably a spirit or has a spirit form.
also its worth mentioning that in the deep roads there are elven god statues, which is odd. http://dragonage.wik..._think_this_is?
all these gods seem to be interlinked, but who is what?
also its worth mentioning that in the deep roads there are elven god statues, which is odd. http://dragonage.wik..._think_this_is?
all these gods seem to be interlinked, but who is what?
#116
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 05:36
dwinning
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My theory is that the Maker is Dread Wolf. While both are said to have locked away "Old Gods" for different reasons - the Dread Wolf's seeming more nefarious - if you take into accout that the Chant of Light is told from the perspective of the Maker's followers while the elves' version is not, it starts to seem like the chant is the Maker covering his tracks for having betrayed and imprisoned the Old Gods.
The basics. The Tevinter worship the Old Gods. According to the Chantry, the Old Gods beckoned the Tevinters to usurp the Maker's throne by invading and defiling the Golden City of the Maker. The Maker had created the Golden City as a heaven for his followers, and warned against coming to the aid of the old gods:
The Old Gods will call to you,
From their ancient prisons they will sing.
Dragons with wicked eyes and wicked hearts,
On blacken'd wings does deceit take flight,
The first of My children, lost to night.
-Silence 3:6, Dissonant Verse
Those Tevinters, attempting to free the old gods they worshipped, somehow became the first darkspawn when they encountered the Maker. The Maker fled the Golden City which became the infested black city. From time to time the darkspawn - or whatever descendant of the tevinter remain in the black city - are successful in reaching an old god, and create an archdemon.
In any event, if the Maker/Wolf's prime concern is to prevent the release of the old gods (and his own comeuppance), and if magic is the link between Thedas and the Fade world where the old gods still reside, it would explain the Chantry's enduring obsession with controlling mages and destroying cultures that refuse to control their mages (tevinter and the dalish). And now the mages are breaking free across the world.
So when Sandal says, "One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like
they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he
rises, everyone will see" , it sounds to me like the Maker/Wolf is going to have to face the old gods. A DA3 (or 5 or whenever) that sees a christ-figure son/embodiment of the Maker/Wolf grow up, realize who he is and fight recently freed - and pissed - old gods, seem like it would be suitably epic.
The basics. The Tevinter worship the Old Gods. According to the Chantry, the Old Gods beckoned the Tevinters to usurp the Maker's throne by invading and defiling the Golden City of the Maker. The Maker had created the Golden City as a heaven for his followers, and warned against coming to the aid of the old gods:
The Old Gods will call to you,
From their ancient prisons they will sing.
Dragons with wicked eyes and wicked hearts,
On blacken'd wings does deceit take flight,
The first of My children, lost to night.
-Silence 3:6, Dissonant Verse
Those Tevinters, attempting to free the old gods they worshipped, somehow became the first darkspawn when they encountered the Maker. The Maker fled the Golden City which became the infested black city. From time to time the darkspawn - or whatever descendant of the tevinter remain in the black city - are successful in reaching an old god, and create an archdemon.
In any event, if the Maker/Wolf's prime concern is to prevent the release of the old gods (and his own comeuppance), and if magic is the link between Thedas and the Fade world where the old gods still reside, it would explain the Chantry's enduring obsession with controlling mages and destroying cultures that refuse to control their mages (tevinter and the dalish). And now the mages are breaking free across the world.
So when Sandal says, "One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like
they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he
rises, everyone will see" , it sounds to me like the Maker/Wolf is going to have to face the old gods. A DA3 (or 5 or whenever) that sees a christ-figure son/embodiment of the Maker/Wolf grow up, realize who he is and fight recently freed - and pissed - old gods, seem like it would be suitably epic.
#117
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 05:51
gombie
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dwinning wrote...
My theory is that the Maker is Dread Wolf. While both are said to have locked away "Old Gods" for different reasons - the Dread Wolf's seeming more nefarious - if you take into accout that the Chant of Light is told from the perspective of the Maker's followers while the elves' version is not, it starts to seem like the chant is the Maker covering his tracks for having betrayed and imprisoned the Old Gods.
The basics. The Tevinter worship the Old Gods. According to the Chantry, the Old Gods beckoned the Tevinters to usurp the Maker's throne by invading and defiling the Golden City of the Maker. The Maker had created the Golden City as a heaven for his followers, and warned against coming to the aid of the old gods:
The Old Gods will call to you,
From their ancient prisons they will sing.
Dragons with wicked eyes and wicked hearts,
On blacken'd wings does deceit take flight,
The first of My children, lost to night.
-Silence 3:6, Dissonant Verse
Those Tevinters, attempting to free the old gods they worshipped, somehow became the first darkspawn when they encountered the Maker. The Maker fled the Golden City which became the infested black city. From time to time the darkspawn - or whatever descendant of the tevinter remain in the black city - are successful in reaching an old god, and create an archdemon.
In any event, if the Maker/Wolf's prime concern is to prevent the release of the old gods (and his own comeuppance), and if magic is the link between Thedas and the Fade world where the old gods still reside, it would explain the Chantry's enduring obsession with controlling mages and destroying cultures that refuse to control their mages (tevinter and the dalish). And now the mages are breaking free across the world.
So when Sandal says, "One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like
they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he
rises, everyone will see" , it sounds to me like the Maker/Wolf is going to have to face the old gods. A DA3 (or 5 or whenever) that sees a christ-figure son/embodiment of the Maker/Wolf grow up, realize who he is and fight recently freed - and pissed - old gods, seem like it would be suitably epic.
ohh for some reason this seems to have alot of sense.
#118
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 05:53
Arrtis
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Bioware I wish for something original.
#119
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 05:56
HolyJellyfish
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I do like the theory of the Dread Wolf = The Maker.
One character ruined an entire civilization (The Elves). I find it fascinating that the Dalish talk about how the Dread Wolf tricked the Gods into hiding, locked them away, and therefore they could not help the Elves against humans. Suggesting, perhaps, that the elves had been stripped of the magic they once had.
After Sandal's prophecy, I'm still under the impression that The Fade + Thedas once was one, but was split by the Dread Wolf / The Maker for reasons still not spelled out, and the Darkspawn is a disease to seek out the only beings capable of reconnecting these worlds (The Old Gods), maintaining that disconnection. It would certainly explain why demons and spirits are enamoured with the real world, as well as their connection to virtues / sins. They are the intangible reality of Thedas.
The Dread Wolf pretty much destroyed a high society of magic (Arlathan) and replaced it with a destructive, malvolent magical society (Tevinters). The Tevinters themselves were ruined by the Chantry, who opposes anything magical.
The Dread Wolf is also known as a trickster. How fitting if s/he was responsible for tricking the world into fighting against magic, and if he turns out to have tricked Thedas into worshipping him as the Maker.
As for Flemeth, I do believe she may have been Andraste / The Maker / The Dread Wolf. She does have an inclination for Tricking people, doesn't she? How fitting that the woman responsible for spreading the Chantry would actually "be" the maker himself, and the Dread Wolf.
As for Magic coming back,I think Sandal is refering to OGB and the reconnection of the Fade + Thedas.
Its a thought.
One character ruined an entire civilization (The Elves). I find it fascinating that the Dalish talk about how the Dread Wolf tricked the Gods into hiding, locked them away, and therefore they could not help the Elves against humans. Suggesting, perhaps, that the elves had been stripped of the magic they once had.
After Sandal's prophecy, I'm still under the impression that The Fade + Thedas once was one, but was split by the Dread Wolf / The Maker for reasons still not spelled out, and the Darkspawn is a disease to seek out the only beings capable of reconnecting these worlds (The Old Gods), maintaining that disconnection. It would certainly explain why demons and spirits are enamoured with the real world, as well as their connection to virtues / sins. They are the intangible reality of Thedas.
The Dread Wolf pretty much destroyed a high society of magic (Arlathan) and replaced it with a destructive, malvolent magical society (Tevinters). The Tevinters themselves were ruined by the Chantry, who opposes anything magical.
The Dread Wolf is also known as a trickster. How fitting if s/he was responsible for tricking the world into fighting against magic, and if he turns out to have tricked Thedas into worshipping him as the Maker.
As for Flemeth, I do believe she may have been Andraste / The Maker / The Dread Wolf. She does have an inclination for Tricking people, doesn't she? How fitting that the woman responsible for spreading the Chantry would actually "be" the maker himself, and the Dread Wolf.
As for Magic coming back,I think Sandal is refering to OGB and the reconnection of the Fade + Thedas.
Its a thought.
#120
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 06:03
monima
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Oh thanks for posting this, did not hear that myself. Have to go try now!
Sandel is a bit of a mystery I like that:)
Sandel is a bit of a mystery I like that:)
#121
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 06:06
LeaveMeAlone9009
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Mungolian_ wrote...
I don't think Sandal is an old god, but I do think he's the first(?) dwarven mage.
I don't think he is the FIRST dwarven mage, I think he is a returned paragon. I think dwarves used to be, or have mages. Like, deep down dwarves. Like, maybe the originals.
A dwarven mage?
Weilding crazy awesome lyrium weapons?
That they don't even use? They prefer their fists.
No one can stand before them.
#122
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 06:09
gombie
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also the elven statues you see and variations of it with four arms instead of wings, can also be seen throughout the fade.
It should also be noted that Darkspawn have been known to place makeshift 'horns', 'wings', and 'spikeys' on statues made by dwarves and humans, making them resemble the strange design of the elven gods
another thing...
the chantry religion is a new one, as elves history goes back way before. and their religion of gods, and same with the tevinters had no existence of this maker. which is why the elves reject the chantry religion and got wiped out.
this supports the maker being the wolf. somewhat. flemeth could have been the powerful mage that andraste is who was tricked by the dread wolf, now seeking to amend the ways? she doesnt seem pro chantry/maker atleast.
It should also be noted that Darkspawn have been known to place makeshift 'horns', 'wings', and 'spikeys' on statues made by dwarves and humans, making them resemble the strange design of the elven gods
another thing...
the chantry religion is a new one, as elves history goes back way before. and their religion of gods, and same with the tevinters had no existence of this maker. which is why the elves reject the chantry religion and got wiped out.
this supports the maker being the wolf. somewhat. flemeth could have been the powerful mage that andraste is who was tricked by the dread wolf, now seeking to amend the ways? she doesnt seem pro chantry/maker atleast.
Modifié par gombie, 14 mars 2011 - 06:14 .
#123
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 06:12
LeaveMeAlone9009
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HolyJellyfish wrote...
I do like the theory of the Dread Wolf = The Maker.
One character ruined an entire civilization (The Elves). I find it fascinating that the Dalish talk about how the Dread Wolf tricked the Gods into hiding, locked them away, and therefore they could not help the Elves against humans. Suggesting, perhaps, that the elves had been stripped of the magic they once had.
After Sandal's prophecy, I'm still under the impression that The Fade + Thedas once was one, but was split by the Dread Wolf / The Maker for reasons still not spelled out, and the Darkspawn is a disease to seek out the only beings capable of reconnecting these worlds (The Old Gods), maintaining that disconnection. It would certainly explain why demons and spirits are enamoured with the real world, as well as their connection to virtues / sins. They are the intangible reality of Thedas.
The Dread Wolf pretty much destroyed a high society of magic (Arlathan) and replaced it with a destructive, malvolent magical society (Tevinters). The Tevinters themselves were ruined by the Chantry, who opposes anything magical.
The Dread Wolf is also known as a trickster. How fitting if s/he was responsible for tricking the world into fighting against magic, and if he turns out to have tricked Thedas into worshipping him as the Maker.
As for Flemeth, I do believe she may have been Andraste / The Maker / The Dread Wolf. She does have an inclination for Tricking people, doesn't she? How fitting that the woman responsible for spreading the Chantry would actually "be" the maker himself, and the Dread Wolf.
As for Magic coming back,I think Sandal is refering to OGB and the reconnection of the Fade + Thedas.
Its a thought.
If thats true, I've seen Flemeth naked in the Black Emporium.
#124
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 06:21
robwell
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The part that worries me is "He will rise..." that to me does not add up to "The Maker" finally returning to his childern.... it makes me think that a possible old god or "the collector" that was introduced in the golems dlc in DAO as at the end it was clearly shown that many times many still remain and no thanks to us are able to successfully leave their prison! i guess my reasoning is that to me if the maker was the "he that Sandal eludes too i would see him as decending from the heavens to restore balance, peace and order to the broken world.
#125
Posté 14 mars 2011 - 06:49
MrKodak89
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I saw a lot of references to it being the OGB in this thread and I really don't understand it. I presume if Morrigan was to have mated with another Grey Warden somewhere, it'd be possible. But in my Dragon Age story, there was no baby making between myself and Morrigan. Thus, there can be no OGB. If that is the route that Bioware decides to take and they tell the story about the Warden who saved Ferelden having a child with Morrigan, I'm going to be extremely annoyed that they ignored my story.
