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Sandal's PROPHECY!


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#176
AbsolutGrndZer0

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Supernerd82 wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

 He also said the OGB is not canon and never will be canon and if the DR is refused he is never born, honestly people learn to accept it.

 

Well that blows. If that's the case then it seems kind of ridiuclous they'd make it seem so important and keep yanking our chains about it, even having it's own DLC. I understand why they'd make it like that given how many different outcomes there are, for both games now, but making such a big deal out of it seems dishonest almost, especially considering how Morrigan made it sound like OGB was her solution to Flemeth and Flemeth was so important in DA2.


Well, that doesn't mean he can't play a part if he exists.  Future game(s) could have VERY different endings depending on the OGB's existence.  Now, whether Bioware will choose to make future games have radically different endings or not is left to be seen, but it could happen.

#177
gombie

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shame that, it should exist no matter what route you take (with another explaination). seems a waste to put this morrigan plot/story and have nothing fruitful come out of it. even if you did refuse it during your playthrough.

#178
AbsolutGrndZer0

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gombie wrote...

shame that, it should exist no matter what route you take (with another explaination). seems a waste to put this morrigan plot/story and have nothing fruitful come out of it. even if you did refuse it during your playthrough.


Um... no... if they made it happen no matter what choice you made, that would make the decision irrelevant.  They already did that with Leliana (if you happened to kill her off during the Ashes of Andraste quest, she's miraculously alive and working with the chantry in DA2 anyway), I HOPE they don't do a similar hand wave, or else that will be the one thing that makes me not buy the next game(s).

#179
RazorrX

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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

The thing about the primal thaig - did you catch how the grey wardens are wigged out over it? Hunting it down once they learned about it?

The grey wardens know where the old gods are buried. (The Calling).

The elves along with the dwarves sealed the old gods deep in the earth. (DA:O)

The old gods are not the elven host, those seem to be different. The Old Gods appear to be Paragon Dragons. The skies were dangerous, etc. and the Elves and Dwarves together found a way to seal the Old Gods deep in the earth.

SO perhaps the Primal Thaig is where the ritual took place. The Lyrium idol could very well have been a 'key' or prime ingredient for the ritual.


So, if the Wardens know where the Old Gods are, why don't they kick some ass, then smuggle some untainted warriors down there to put the smackdown on the Old Gods (would not want to do it themselves, or they might start a new Blight, like the Architect did)


The whole reason the Architect 'converted' a senior grey warden was to gain the location of the old gods.  That is why the blight happened in ferelden.  The Architect led his people to the old god and tried his joining ceremony on it (thinking to free them from the arch demon forever).  It failed, a new blight started.

IF you left the ARchitect alive, he will probably go to the next old god and try again.  It is possible that he passed this information along to other speaking darkspawn, and so they are currently working towards the next old god even as kirkwall explodes into its holy war.

No idea why the wardens don't just try to find and kill the remaining old gods.  Perhaps they can not die until they are tainted. 

I believe the Old Gods are the Dragon Paragons that the elves and dwarves imprisoned beneath the earth long ago.  (found a codex on that in DA:O).  Thus there would be a map for the location (which it is said that the wardens have one) and thus the wardens going all code red over the discovery of the lost thaig.

#180
Jaldaen

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Do any of you think that Riordan would have taken the Dark Bargain? If Bioware wanted to make the OGB happen no matter what your choice was... then that is the only option to make it happen in spite of your decisions in DAO. It wouldn't break anyone's choice either.

#181
Jaldaen

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Oh... and another thing... I never got Sandal to say his prophecy in my game (even though I clicked on him lots). The only things he mentioned were the woodshed and the woman watching him.

#182
YamiSnuffles

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Jaldaen wrote...

Do any of you think that Riordan would have taken the Dark Bargain? If Bioware wanted to make the OGB happen no matter what your choice was... then that is the only option to make it happen in spite of your decisions in DAO. It wouldn't break anyone's choice either.


It would break people's choices. There are plenty of people who had their Warden/Alistair/Loghain die. No one would have died killing the archdemon if the DR was done. Also, I have playthroughs where I choose not to do the DR specifically because I don't want any OGB around. More to the point, Riordan couldn't have done it. Morrigan specifically states that it needs to be done with someone who hasn't had the taint long.

Honestly, I have no problem with the OGB being a possible big player in future games but I don't see why some people insist the OGB must exist. It seems, anyway, like the OGB would be more important if he could possibly not exist. If he is going to be some sort of savior or destroyer, it makes your choice to do/not do the DR more important.

#183
Jaldaen

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YamiSnuffles wrote...

It would break people's choices... More to the point, Riordan couldn't have done it. Morrigan specifically states that it needs to be done with someone who hasn't had the taint long... Honestly, I have no problem with the OGB being a possible big player in future games but I don't see why some people insist the OGB must exist.


Great points Yami! I was just tossing ideas out (but your point about Riordan's taintedness is a good one... I forgot about that). I also had a playthrough where I choose to reject the DB... because I didn't think it was a good idea. I wonder if the OGB will be something like the Rachni Queen in ME. You'll get something (good or bad) out of it depending upon your choices and we should just leave it at that.

#184
TheRevanchist

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Or...or...you know...she might not have ANY plans for it at all...and just wanted to preserve somthing ancient...letting the Old God live a life free from taint. While I HIGHLY doubt thats the case...any theory is viable until Bioware acts upon it.

#185
henkez3

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Sandal is just the Tom Bombadil of this universe, I wouldn't be too suprised anyways.

#186
dwinning

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kedcoleman wrote...

My 2 cents: The Dread Wolf, and by extension the Elven pantheon, is based loosely off of Norse mythos, specifically Loki. The similarities are not insignificant: both are Trickster figures, both connected to the two opposing factions (the Wolf a friend to the elven Gods and the Forgotten alike, Loki the progeny of Aesir and Jotunn), both connected to wolf imagery (Loki being he father of Fenrir, the Wolf being, well, the Dread Wolf).

What greater trick could the Dread Wolf pull off than to convince the world that he was the all-powerful Maker, the sole Divine being of the world after he'd tricked all the other powers into locking themselves away. So he finds a slave, taken from an oppressed barbarian people and convinces her she is a prophet, a messiah - if she only spreads the word of his greatness.

The Chantry, founded in the footsteps of Andraste, teaches magic is sinful, blood magic especially so. Why is this? Throughout the past, for centuries - millenia - magic was used by all the peoples of Thedas. Some less altruistically than others. The elves had always been magical. I believe the dwarves were, too. Humans always had magic users. Magic, in itself, is not evil, clearly. This designation of magic as a sin is a means of control. The Chantry, unknowingly influenced by the Dread Wolf's desire for power and control, oppresses whatever mortals can challenge his power.

Blood magic is especially dangerous to the Wolf. Several times it's been expressed how much more powerful blood magic is than vanilla magic. That it would take many mages, or a mountain of lyrium to complete rituals that a single blood mage could accomplish. Not to mention the implied abilities of blood mages to dominate minds. For a lone god trying to dominate the wills of an entire world, well, that could be a problem.

So he tricks the humans into thinking he's the only god, "the Maker", and that everyone that could challenge him is an evil sinner by birth, always on the verge of Abomination. Even the mages themselves believe these tricks.

And what of the Fade? Did the Wolf himself sunder the Fade and the physical world? It seems to be implied that at some point in the distant past the two coexisted more deeply and were sundered with the Veil at some point. This is the implication, too, of Sandal's quote, that the magic will return, that the skies will part. I don't think the gods or the Forgotten will return, necessarily. They were trapped somewhere outside the world and the Fade. I wonder, though...everything int he Fade is a reflection of something in the world. The thoughts and dreams of people become places and things there. Emotions and desires become spirits, whether benevolent or malicious. I wonder what the Black City reflects.

With the Norse parallels of mythology, to go back to my original tangent, comes the promise of Ragnarok. This concept seems to be brought out, again, in Sandal's speech. It's very ominous, foretelling of something cataclysmic to come.


I like this because I posted pretty much the same theory earlier in the post, didn't make the connection to norse mythology, though so +1 for that.  http://social.biowar...88581/5#6542283

#187
KenKenpachi

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Jaldaen wrote...

Oh... and another thing... I never got Sandal to say his prophecy in my game (even though I clicked on him lots). The only things he mentioned were the woodshed and the woman watching him.

Here's a video of it, found in another thread on here.


Also
 Dragon Age 3 = Sandal reveals his true intelligence and becomes a badass companion. He will be so overpowered you can finish the game with just having him and yourself in the party. If you actually accomplish that, the game gives you an achievement/trophy: Pair of Sandals.

#188
Medhia Nox

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I've often thought that all the dwarves were "Tranquil" - they don't go to the Fade and they don't have magic. Of course, they're not lobotomized zombies either - but that could be because they're dwarves. They live right next to lyrium and they have a lot to do with it (crafting/mining etc.)

I also think that Sandal is suggesting that the dwarves will regain their magic.

The young dwarven girl in Origins who is a genius in magical theory might hint to the idea that dwarves are actually naturally pre-disposed to understanding magical theory. Where did she get all those books to know about magic? Are they located in the Shaperate? If so - why are they there if dwarves could never do magic.

It's also important to note that dwarves deny all deities. They believe in dwarves (Paragons). I think it might be possible that they gave up magic for some reason. Perhaps they severed themselves from the Fade, from demons, and from old gods to try to keep their people safe - of course, then the Tevinters created the darkspawn - bitter irony?

Anyway - I think the dwarves play a larger role in this than both humans and elves.

#189
RazorrX

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Or it is possible they severed the link to the fade because THEY created the Darkspawn in the Primal Thaig? Then sealed it off, severed all links to the fade, and wiped all knowledge out of record. And generations later the seals/wards failed and darkspawn were freed.

#190
Nimander

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IMO, a good theory is that the taint is some sort of corruption in Lyrium. Thus why wardens need to mix a concoction of Darkspawn Blood, lyrium, and other things to become Wardens. Basically the primordial dwarves did research, created a corrupted Lyrium on accident to do ... something, and this lyrium creates a conduit to something. The Wolf? Cthulhu-ish outer dark? :) Who knows. And they realized what they did, and needed to cut themselves off to ensure that the corruption doesn't spread to them.

Explains the lyrium idol, the primordial thaig to an extent, and other things. :) Basically lyrium 'resonates' to something positive. They turned it into anti-lyrium, as it were. And oops, something negative.

#191
CyberNinjaSensei

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That's awesome that Sandal actually says that! The whole "he might be the Maker".......if anyone is familiar with the Dragon Lance universe, Fizban, the mage who constantly "forgets" how to cast Fireball, is actually a god. So, I don't think it'd really be far-fetched, per se. Now, I have been wondering about one thing: Sandal has unexplained abilities. There's also the dwarf in DA:O who you can send to study at the Circle. If Sandal and her (I forget her name) got together, I wonder if that would make a dwarven mage. Sure, her interest in magic is intellectual, but that's all we know about her, too.

Either way, I am endlessly entertained when I see dead bodies surrounding Sandal. :)

#192
Saerin

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Findog wrote...

Nimander wrote...

Look at elven mythology.

The Wolf bound the 8 gods in Heaven and the Abyss. There are 7 Archdemons, and Sandal was found wandering the depths by his father. I personally think he's the 8th Elven god, bound only partially and thus wasn't able to be corrupted by whatever corrupted the Archdemons (I don't really hold with the whole 'The Maker made them to punish the Tevinter' thing, that is rather convenient and reads like propoganda by a fledgeling Chantry.)

Another idea I had, though, was that he was from the Thaig we found there. It was 'different' with no Paragons or such. I think it could be the original dwarven Thaig/homeland/whatever, and whatever caused the corruption of the idol led to dwarves having no magic, and he's the last dwarf with magical potential. For now.

As for who 'he' is, perhaps the Maker? I don't know.


I was thinking the same thing. I also think Flemeth is The Wolf. She can turn into a Dragon and seems to be the only connection to all this crazyness right now. Plus shes pullin the midnight creeper on sandals too. And "he" I think has to be the god baby. Though it could be the maker. But Bioware can say whatever they want. But with the whole witch hunt DLC... yeah its gonna come in some how or that whole DLC was pointless. Come on you bound a soul of a god or power of a god into a child and its not gonna relate to the story some how? If they dont then Bioware has lost their minds. I just want some damn closure! Dragon Age 2 just made it worse too.


Not to mention, in The Stolen Throne, Flemeth helps Maric and Loghain escape. I wonder if there's any great historical event she hasn't played a role in?

#193
Trixsy

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mrsph wrote...

You also hand Sandal part of the artifact and he is never shown disposing it. And Sandal and Bodahn are heading to the Orlesian royal court.

Nice job breaking it, Hawke.


I thought he turned it into a rune for you, since after that you get one o.o

#194
da0Xeffect2

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kylecouch wrote...

Gaider said in a video interview at PAX that the team would probably never Confirm OR Deny the exsistence of The Maker because Faith cannot exsist without a sense of doubt and religion is based upon Faith...if a god is made real then is it considered Worship rather than Faith. I don't know what this has to do this...but that was his reasonings. He also said the OGB is not canon and never will be canon and if the DR is refused he is never born, honestly people learn to accept it.

The Primeval Thaig is the most interesting thing to me...because the codex entry of that Thaig was very mysterious...basicly it was a detailed report from someone in Orzammar that was investagateing an artifact...another idol in fact...that someone brought back to Orzammar...who was totaly mad and rambleing about the Thaig. The person in charge of this could tell it was of Dwarven make...but was unable to determine what it was made of or how it was made...or really anything else about the item. He spoke to the Shaper of Memories to investigate this to see if such a thing has ever existed in Dwarven History. Despite the fact that The Memories date back all the way to founding of the first Thaig the Shaper was unable to find anything even hinting at such a thing. The person in charge of this investigation was shocked by this...and found the idea that the The Memories might be wrong as troubleing. This report was in turn sealed away by order of a dwarven King durring the Storm Age. Everyone knows that Dwarves have not changed much over the course of their history and have been entrenched in tradition for many ages...since before even the apperence of the Darkspawn...who first appeared in the Deep Roads. The Memories say that there was never such a thing as Darkspawn...and a moment later there was, pouring into the Deep Roads like smoke from seemingly no source. It is clear that...if indeed what Sandel says is not a joke, (which seems alittle too ominus to dismiss but I wish for a video to hear the context of how he says it) then I truly believe the Darkspawn are linked to this mysertious figure "riseing" just like how the Darkspawn rose from the Deep Roads. For all we know this figure could be a being we know absolutly nothing about and have never even heard of.

Let me draw your attention to Ortan Thaig from The Calling. The mysertious Dwarven Prince made a deal with an extreamly powerful demon...one so terrifying the dwarves would have rather been torn to pieces by the Darkspawn, who were in turn hammering on the other side of the doors as they tried to claw their way out, then stay and feel its wrath. If dwarves were immune to magic how did this Prince come into contact with this demon and how was a deal possible? We see in DA2 that possesing none Mages requires a great deal of effort from an outside party to make it possible. So how did this happen if Dwarves were indeed immune to the effects of magic? The Lyrium Idol also draws much curiosity for it does indeed seem to resemble the Song of the Old Gods...however...it seems it is a song only Dwarves can hear...because when Varric commented on hearing singing...Hawke claims he hears nothing even as a mage. However Justice from DA:OA claims that Lyrium always sings anyways because the song from the Lyrium ring was beautiful to him yet when mages dream of Lyrium in the Fade...it sounds sad and depressing to him. He was also the only one able to hear that ring singing. So why can Dwarves...who are supposedly immune to all magical effects...hear somthing only a Fade Spirit has claimed to hear. Was the Lyrium of the The Primeval Thaig unique? probably...considering it is red instead of blue, but I think this cannot be ignored.

Also Kal Sharok was the only dwarven city besides Orzammar to outlast the Blight. Kal Sharok is much deeper underground then Orzammar and is not near any surface entrance known. How did this city survive when totaly cut off from any form of support except from within it's walls? Was Kal Sharok truly just that massive and powerful being the formal capital of the Dwarven Empire? Or was there somthing else to it? The Dwarves of Orzammar say that the Dwarves in Kal Sharaok are different from them because they had to do "desperate" things to survive the Blight...but never elaborate as to what that means.

Considering Sandal was found wandering the Deep Roads...alone...I feel this "rising" he speaks of relates more to all these mysterys of the Dwarves then The Maker or Fen'Harol or The Elven Pantheon or whatever else...however the Old Gods are quite possibly involved...being below the ground themselves. I am sorry for the Wall-o-text...and if you actually kept up with this thanks lol...I am simply pieceing codex entries togeather the best I can to try and formulate a theory.

This is why I have a hard time imagining the Maker being involved in this more than already. I believe we may be looking far too into this. Maybe Sandal was speaking of Anders. Anders blew up the Chantry with a large beam of light shooting through the heavens.
Then again it feels so much deeper than that. Coincidence that Sandal seems to be there in a significant moment. He's with the Warden and indirectly assists in defeating the Archdemon. Then he is with Hawke, in another pivotal moment in time to witness the resurgence of magic in the world.
I do not think he is the Maker but maybe a watchful eye for whomever is his master. Maybe an ordinary dwarf inhabited by a spirit that has limited his speech to saying "enchantment" among other things so he won't speak of what his actual job is. The boy disappears constantly often surrounded by death and destruction of those who face him. Perhaps the spirit within him is guiding him to keypoints knowing that Hawke and the Warden's success is vital to his job. 

#195
Boradam

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I believe he is refering to the Maker, and the old lady that watches him is Flemeth.

#196
Guest_I.AM.DUNCAN_*

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 When HE rises. I can think of 2 possibilities. The Maker or God Baby.

#197
TheRevanchist

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Who knows...it could be nothing but an Easter Egg from the Devs, while I very much doubt that considering everything we know about Sandal anything is possible right now...but that video is indeed creepy...he deff don't sound like the same Sandal. Me personally am probably WWWAAAYYY off in my theories...considering I've never been right about things like this...but still I feel this stuff is important to point out. The Primeval Thaig is far too mysterious to simply be coinsidence. I truly think Sandal is a mystical Seer like Eloveen Zinoveea...that Tevinter statue in the Circle basement.

#198
TheRevanchist

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Or you know...like I said...could be a being that we don't even know exsists yet.

#199
Arokel

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Lets not forget that a prophecy very similiar to Sandal's has already been made. Elini Zinovia (in either the Mage Origin or Witch Hunt I cannot remember which) says "Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And thus shall I endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again."

Notice the similarities. "The magic will come back, all of it" and "light their fires again". Also notice "When he rises" and "'til the Maker returns".

Both my Warden (a templar) and my Hawke (a blood mage) believe in the maker but I am still unsure. I am not sure if the similarities of these prophecies means they are linked but it seems that they are.

#200
TheRevanchist

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Arokel wrote...

Lets not forget that a prophecy very similiar to Sandal's has already been made. Elini Zinovia (in either the Mage Origin or Witch Hunt I cannot remember which) says "Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And thus shall I endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again."

Notice the similarities. "The magic will come back, all of it" and "light their fires again". Also notice "When he rises" and "'til the Maker returns".

Both my Warden (a templar) and my Hawke (a blood mage) believe in the maker but I am still unsure. I am not sure if the similarities of these prophecies means they are linked but it seems that they are.


I noticed this as well...I feel Sandal is a Seer just like she is.