2340 réponses à ce sujet

[Shepard Lives]

I killed him, not because what he did was atrocious (it was, though) but because it was STUPID. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

He couldn't blow up, say, Meredith or the Divine or what have you. Even Orsino would have been fine as a target (bastard helped kill me mam and turned on me). No, he had to kill Elthina, who was basically the only person in that asylum of a city who had some empathy and common sense (besides Hawke).


Not that I did it to punish him, mind you. I did it to rid the world of a dangerous terrorist and to prevent his actions from further worsening the plight of mages in Thedas.

If I wanted to punish him I would have let him live, a la Loghain. Not that it would have taught him anything: at that point in the story it becomes abundantly clear that he's gone insane.


And this comes from someone who sided with the mages at every possible occasion. My point of view on mages is basically: they should be controlled, because few people are responsible enough to handle that kind of power, but they should still be treated as human beings. Utopistical, perhaps, but it's a goal to work towards.

(As for the Chantry, I think they're nasty, but not half as nasty as real-world organized religions).

Modifié par Shepard Lives, 15 mars 2011 - 06:21 .

[apantoliani]

I spared Anders and ran off with him, it made sense for me because my Hawke on this (first) playthrough was a mage and against the templar/circle set up. That and even if I never directly knew that **** was going to go down, I was there every step of the way.

1. Who found the idol? I found the idol.
2. As a mage, I was an enabler at best, accomplice at worst while out and about questing.
3. I let him sneak whatever it was into the Chantry.
4. The game seemed to be this big build up of starting out rebelling and building up more and more, more openly reckless, less thinking things through to the point the only reason he was even free anymore was because the templars would have got their asses kicked and they knew it.
5. Constantly getting confrontational with templars, clerics and even other mages.

After I got over the shock of the Chantry getting blown up, I realized that by my own code of conduct, **** happens. My own bad for thinking he didn't have it in him.

I was crazy surprised Aveline stuck around. THAT part surprised me. Fenris changing his mind too.

[vigna]

I sided with the Mages, but I still killed him. He just wasn't the same without ser pounce a lot.

Come on, even if you thought the mother lady was too neutral and did not act enough she didn't deserve to die like that. Justice is one thing, but murder is another.

[earl of the north]

My female Rogue had a mage girlfriend and a mage sister to think off so she supported the mages.....Fenris unsuprisingly bailed on her but the rest stuck by her. Anders died for his act of mass murder.

[Veronica Ward]

vigna wrote...

I sided with the Mages, but I still killed him. He just wasn't the same without ser pounce a lot.

Come on, even if you thought the mother lady was too neutral and did not act enough she didn't deserve to die like that. Justice is one thing, but murder is another.

You dole out death from the start of this game to the very end. Your Hawke's hands are soaked in blood. Calling him out for being a murderer is silly.

[tausra]

Veronica Ward wrote...

vigna wrote...

I sided with the Mages, but I still killed him. He just wasn't the same without ser pounce a lot.

Come on, even if you thought the mother lady was too neutral and did not act enough she didn't deserve to die like that. Justice is one thing, but murder is another.

You dole out death from the start of this game to the very end. Your Hawke's hands are soaked in blood. Calling him out for being a murderer is silly.

Hawke didn't kill a bunch of innocent people.

[Veronica Ward]

tausra wrote...

Veronica Ward wrote...

vigna wrote...

I sided with the Mages, but I still killed him. He just wasn't the same without ser pounce a lot.

Come on, even if you thought the mother lady was too neutral and did not act enough she didn't deserve to die like that. Justice is one thing, but murder is another.

You dole out death from the start of this game to the very end. Your Hawke's hands are soaked in blood. Calling him out for being a murderer is silly.

Hawke didn't kill a bunch of innocent people.

Neither did Anders.

[ghoststalker194]

The Mother seemed liked a good person. Anders/Justice/Vengence had to go.
It's one of the toughest choices I ever had to make in a game though. Only second to siding with the Mages or Templars.

The only reason I went with Mages was because my sister was in there.

[Kreidian]

Don't get me wrong, this was a mess of the Chantry's own doing. They effectively enslaved the mages so something like this was inevitable. They messed up horribly, not just with the mages and the Templars but with the elves as well. They couldn't even get things right in Tevinter. It's no surprise the whole house of cards is falling now.

None of that excuses what Anders did, however. Even if he was completely justified, what he did was wrong and he had to answer for his enormous crime.

[Catalyst38]

When it comes down to it i think it had to be done the false peace the circle provided needed to be destroyed and theres nothing like a attack on a church to force it to happen. The Circle is slavery yes call it what you will but its slavery without exception and it needed to be destroyed. I agree with him to force everyone to choice a side, that said i killed anders afterworlds a crime like that no matter how justified could not go unpunished and he knew that.

my opinion i have typed already on this matter so i'll repost it here.

"After seeing the endings of the game i have to say all mages should be as the Saarebas every mage that was backed into a corner turned into a blood mage even the ones that still had a chance. Mages are dangerous evil creators that need to be keep in chains. I started the game as a mage sympathizer but as it progressed i slow but surly saw the truth you should as well.......Ataash qunari!

[mscotch]

I killed him. I refused to help him when he wouldn't tell me what he was up to. He didn't help the mages cause by basically becoming a terrorist.

I found neither side was very reasonable towards the end.

Orsino probably should have waited another 5 minutes before deciding it was a hopeless situation.

No way I was going to allow Meridith invoke the right of annulment with Bethany and many other innocent mages in the circle.

[Aithieel]

When you play DA:O just in first few sentences of intro there are words that Chantry teaches that mages are bad, should live in circles and all evil in the world is their fault. Something like this. They aren't just "neutral" for me.

[Rinji the Bearded]

I didn't.

*off topic*

[kdarnell]

Nimander wrote...

I didn't kill him, but really wanted a 'You will help atone for this travesty by defending the mages... and then you will be put on trial for your crimes.' option.

That would have been perfect. I ended up telling him to leave. Hawk may have loved him enough to defy practically every convention living with him openly, but the death of soo many innocents is intolorable. couldn't kill him, but couldn't deal with him afterward either. but in the epilogue I think Varric said something about Anders being the only one to stay with Hawk, i'm not sure, though. I guess I can find out in another play through. But that's for later. This time I'm going to have my mage Hawk romance Fenris and take his mage hating attitude down a peg or 2.

[Dean_the_Young]

Werrf wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
The Chantry should be in charge, but in the context of Kirkwall it isn't. The Templars, and Meredith's, status as the true powers in the city are repeated far more than once.
...
Mind you, we actually were at a point at which Meredith had clearly overstepped her bounds and in which the Grand Cleric had basis to intervene and moderate. Until Meredith actually did something wrong, intervention by the Grand Cleric was a questionable affair at best: what would Meredith be accused of and be relieved for? Fighting an actual outbreak of bloodmage apostates? Cracking down on person-smuggling rings who sought to get mages out of the Circle? Being disagreeable? 

But I gave the Grand Cleric every chance to explain her failure to reign in the Templars.  She didn't say that she couldn't, she told me that she wouldn't, insisting that she must remain neutral (not her job), and find 'balance', with the implication that the horrific abuses of the mages in Kirkwall was the balance she was looking for.  We had evidence of mages who had not failed their Harrowing being tranquilised; baseless accusations of blood magic; Templar enforcers going around terrorising non-mages, Meredith insisting that only she could appoint a Viscount, which is most DEFINITELY not her place.  There was plenty of evidence to justify the Grand Cleric's intervention, but she refused.  She didn't say she couldn't, didn't ask for help, simply refused to intervene.  At which point the only non-violent means of reining in the Knight Commander is gone, and I can't help feeling that Anders' decision is - not justified, but understandable.

Staying neutral rather is her job at this point. The Chantry(religious arm)/Templar difference is quite common in reality, and akin to any civilian/military split: there's a very vague line about when and where a civilian can, and should, step into military fairs. Meredith being extreme in her job is not the same as her being wrong in her job, or not have the right or standing to do it. There's a large gap between wanting to stop something a nominal subordinate is doing, and actually being able to.

This is only complicated by the fact that, while it should be otherwise, the Grand Cleric isn't in control of the Templars, and there's no simple way to make it otherwise. There's a very basic reason that Meredith is in the most powerful person in the city, and the Grand Cleric isn't, and that's because at any given point, if the two were to come to heads, Meredith would come out on top. The Chantry as a whole is supposed to be apolitical, and the Templars their enforcers, but the Templars in Kirkwall have long since seized and held the political power, and are the military power, and Meredith controls them.

This is the nature of power balances. You can't always win, and you must know when not to move in order to retain what standing you do have and be able to influence at all. The Grand Cleric could not simply move and make things be: the Chantry (religious arm) does not have that power in Kirkwall. The point that the Grand Cleric had the greatest capability, was the point Anders killed them.

[cast2007]

Killed Anders. The only reason I had him in my party during questing was because he was the only healer in the entire group.

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

They were members of an organization that enslaved his people. I had no interest in killing a man who wanted to end the slavery of mages.

I entered the templars quaters in the gallows with Anders a few time.. If he was smart he would have blown up their part of the gallows.. not the chantry.

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

How is the Grand Cleric reasonable? She's doing nothing to stop the violence that is erupting between the mages and the Templar Order, screamin_jesus. While cglasglow can condemn Anders for having a Spirit inside him, what's the excuse for the group of templars who did nothing while one of their own said he would rape that same mage girl when she was made tranquil because she would have no will to resist? Why should I not want Anders to end an institution that steals people's humanity and agency from them to the point Karl said he didn't want to be a "Templar puppet" anymore? I find it odd how people damn Anders for putting an end to the slavery of mages, because that's exactly what happened in the end. The Circles broke free from the Chantry.

Anders doesn't have a spirit inside him anymore, he has a demon inside him. Mother Elethia knew an Exalted March was being considered after you attend the meeting with "Sister Nightingale" with Sebastian. So she would have considered if she sided with the mages that the result of that would be Justina going ahead with the march.

The Freedom for mages thing was not the concern at the time anyway, Orsino and his faction didn't bring it up they just didn't want the Templars taking control of the city.. Which he was right about. But as we found out, Meredith was right about Orsino harboring blood mages in the tower as well.. "Do you take me for a fool, one does not simply learn such techniques without studying them" I hate to admit it, but Meridith couldn't have been more right there.. And thats when she had the sword and was minutes away from complete insanity. One does not simply wave their arms around and become a havester or master blood mage, you have to practice and study it.. The fact that we found Powerful Maleficarum anyway was proof that The Knight Commander wasn't wrong.

Both Sides were right, Just like Elethina said.. And both sides had their faults as well, just like she said.. If she commits full support to one side though, then it could have terrible backlash..

[Augustei]

What Anders did was a really bad move, the Llomeryn accord had just been broken and the Qunari are likely to return soon.. And then he goes and forces disunity between the two factions who were the only reason the last Invasion was stopped.. Now that they are fighting each other, The Qunari will take advantage of the chaos and assume control of nearly all, if not all Thedas. Lets see how much the mages enjoy their freedom under the Qun.. when they have their tongues cut out, their mouths stitched and having to wear masks and be leashed... Yeah The Mages future is looking real great thanks to Anders....

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 15 mars 2011 - 08:49 .

[fluorine7]

I sided with Mages, and I didn't kill Anders. reason being:

1, he's my only healer, I need him for the final battle.
2, I can't bring myself to kill him after romancing him with my female mage.

it is a very shocking and difficult choice...

[UltiPup]

First play, I killed him. His little adventure he did with my help, unknowingly, was just utter betrayal. He refused to clean up his mess and Sebastion was declaring war. Anders was at maxed Friendship. I killed him. It was the only thing I could do.

Second play, I haven't recruited Sebastion and I am planning to keep him alive. He'll clean up this mess. No quick death. Justice done right.

[KAAurious]

I couldn't kill him. I thought of Ser Pounce-a-lot and let him live. Even sided with the mages. (Helped that my Hawke was a mage)

[Boss Fog]

Veronica Ward wrote...

tausra wrote...

Veronica Ward wrote...

vigna wrote...

I sided with the Mages, but I still killed him. He just wasn't the same without ser pounce a lot.

Come on, even if you thought the mother lady was too neutral and did not act enough she didn't deserve to die like that. Justice is one thing, but murder is another.

You dole out death from the start of this game to the very end. Your Hawke's hands are soaked in blood. Calling him out for being a murderer is silly.

Hawke didn't kill a bunch of innocent people.

Neither did Anders.

Yes he did.

[SamFlagg]

I myself sided with the mages who up to that point managed to be only slightly less infuriating with the templars, (and I'm not going to kill my sister) however I had to kill Anders, which I regret having to do it but it had to be done.

The personal betrayal at having me be a part of it I could let go, I could've even let him live with Sebastian swearing that he'd raise an army.

But I simply could not let him live knowing that he massacred everyone in that chantry to force this. Frankly up to that point I kept hoping that maybe just maybe at best he would just try to personally kill Meridith, or attack them templars directly. I'll admit my friendship with Anders (and also remembering old Anders from awakening) blinded me to just how far he'd go, I mistakenly thought when he nearly killed a mage that he had snapped himself back to reality. Even when I felt ill at ease about helping him out in the Chantry I thought maybe at the absolute worst he was attempting to poison the Grand Cleric to get her out of the way quietly. I never realized that the entire gambit was to intentionally incite war, I assumed it was to remove all obstacles to Meridith so she'd cross the line publicly enough 'first' so that everything the mages responded with would've seemed justified.

Bastard.

But in the end he was lost. An abomination in actions if not visible form.


Makes one wonder, did Justice corrupt Anders, or did Anders corrupt Justice? Truly the joining benefited neither. Maybe everything everyone thought about the rare helpful spirits of the fade is inevitably wrongheaded.

[KAAurious]

To be completely honest. The change in Anders is probably one of the more compelling aspects in the third act. In Awakening Anders was a completely different character, even if you remove the aspect of Justice from him. (Which he asserts is a seamless connection and thus not making him a true abomination) He just wanted to live. Freedom. The ability to shoot lightning at fools. However, in DA2 it's clear that he's no longer Anders. I think he's actually more Vengeance than Anders. Especially to go so far as to blow the Chantry up, to use people around him to that end.

I remember while he sat there, blankfaced and all, all I could think of is turning him over to the Chantry in Awakening. The times that both the Hero of Ferelden and Hawke had stood up for him and that's how he responded. It was ridiculous, but I didn't kill him. Assuming that there's any humanity left in him, he'd have to live with that guilt, knowing that he was the guy who had caused an untold number of deaths in Kirkwall and in Thedas in general.