2340 réponses à ce sujet

[baibai_baby]

Joy Divison wrote...

The game should have had an option to kill Sebastion when he defects.

Very much agreed - I thought it the perfect opportunity to bring out the murder knife...or at least a practical one. My Hawke killed for less than someone practicaly declaring all-out war on them before. o_o

Personally I didn't kill Anders. I want to see what happens, plus it was probably the only really exciting thing to happen in the game.Hopefully my Warden can find him and pimpslap him around a bit later though.
As far as poetic justice would be concerned people should consider sending him to live in the deep roads or something. He loves that place.

I sort of view the Chantry in this setting as the Catholic church back in and before the days of reformation. Its more than the religion we know today. Its a behemoth of political, commercial and cultural power. So as far as symbols go he did choose a powerful one. I'm also surprised that people don't see a sort of message behind Elthina's death also - she may promote herself as a neutral party trying to 'keep the peace' (pff) but when someone such as her who possesses the authority to move against those that oppress a group, such as the mages, her inaction is just as easily perceived as permission.
I wonder how easily it would have been for her to force Meredith to retire and promote Cullen (or whoever else was appropriate) and to what extent this would have changed the outcome. I never got the impression that Meredith was particularly well-loved by the populous or even within the order enough to create as large a scandal as a mage/templar war.

[Rifneno]

Joy Divison wrote...

The game should have had an option to kill Sebastion when he defects.

OMG yes.

[Nimrodell]

baibai_baby wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

The game should have had an option to kill Sebastion when he defects.

Very much agreed - I thought it the perfect opportunity to bring out the murder knife...or at least a practical one. My Hawke killed for less than someone practicaly declaring all-out war on them before. o_o

Personally I didn't kill Anders. I want to see what happens, plus it was probably the only really exciting thing to happen in the game.Hopefully my Warden can find him and pimpslap him around a bit later though.
As far as poetic justice would be concerned people should consider sending him to live in the deep roads or something. He loves that place.

I sort of view the Chantry in this setting as the Catholic church back in and before the days of reformation. Its more than the religion we know today. Its a behemoth of political, commercial and cultural power. So as far as symbols go he did choose a powerful one. I'm also surprised that people don't see a sort of message behind Elthina's death also - she may promote herself as a neutral party trying to 'keep the peace' (pff) but when someone such as her who possesses the authority to move against those that oppress a group, such as the mages, her inaction is just as easily perceived as permission.
I wonder how easily it would have been for her to force Meredith to retire and promote Cullen (or whoever else was appropriate) and to what extent this would have changed the outcome. I never got the impression that Meredith was particularly well-loved by the populous or even within the order enough to create as large a scandal as a mage/templar war.

Agreed. Sebastian was major disappointment for me and Elthina was right about him in that 'when next pation takes you' aspect. I actuallly don't percieve him different from Anders, they are like two sides of the same coin for me. Both of them paint world black and white but according to their standards, being driven by self-righteousness. I do understand Sebastian's final decision when Hawke is not honorable opponent, but with selfless honorable Hawke (whether he/she is kind, witty or aggressive one) that helped him and tried his/hers best - I don't see him as benevolent man of faith; he's opposite then, dangerous zealot, driven by his own exclusive pations and darkness.

[Blastaz]

Personally I don't like the murder knife.... I really wanted to chop his head off as that is how you deal with abominations properly, as he tells you in his quest to 'cure him'.

[Master Shiori]

I killed him on every single one of my playthroughs.

While I agree that Meredith and the templars in Kirkwall went too far in their opression of mages, I didn't agree with the Anders' methods. Killing a bunch of innocent people simply for not taking sides isn't justified.

Had I been able to, I'd turn him over to Aveline and have him stand trial for his crime, but the option wasn't there.

[Xewaka]

The game didn't offer me the chance to shackle him and leave him to rot in a pilory for weeks, so I shanked him.
The Murder Knife demanded blood, for its thirst is unquenchable.

[corebit]

I killed Anders but I really hated the stealthy backstab move to kill him!

That kill move just made it look like somehow it was a shameful and dishonorable act and reinforced his twisted idea of being a martyr. I wanted to kill him slowly, and in his face looking at me like the criminal and betrayer he is.

Why did the game portray me as cowardly as Anders?? I was very disappointed with that.

Modifié par corebit, 14 avril 2011 - 02:01 .

[Plaintiff]

Rifneno wrote...

Joy Divison wrote...

The game should have had an option to kill Sebastion when he defects.

OMG yes.

Apparently he's going to be important in the future. Whether it's DLC or DA3 I have no idea.

I could care less about his threats. Sebastian's biggest crime is being painfully uptight. Considering you have to pay extra to get him in the first place, I really think it should've been possible to get him to loosen up, even turn him against Elthina.

Don't even get me started on the fact that, for all the fuss about reclaiming his throne, we never even set foot in Starkhaven. (Wait, that pretty much covers my misgivings on that score).

[Camenae]

I wish he had had the guts to off himself rather than make his lover/good friend do it.

[Plaintiff]

corebit wrote...

I killed Anders but I really hated the stealthy backstab move to kill him!

That kill move just made it look like somehow it was a shameful and dishonorable act and reinforced his twisted idea of being a martyr. I wanted to kill him slowly, and in his face looking at me like the criminal and betrayer he is.

Why did the game portray me as cowardly as Anders?? I was very disappointed with that.

He's not going to fight back either way. Facing him from the front doesn't make it any braver.

[Rifneno]

corebit wrote...

I killed Anders but I really hated the stealthy backstab move to kill him!

That kill move just made it look like somehow it was a shameful and dishonorable act and reinforced his twisted idea of being a martyr. I wanted to kill him slowly, and in his face looking at me like the criminal and betrayer he is.

Why did the game portray me as cowardly as Anders?? I was very disappointed with that.

That makes no sense.  He knew it was coming and made a conscious decision not to defend himself.  Depending on which way you look at it he either feels his death would be justice for his victims in the Chantry and they deserve justice as much as the mages in the Gallows do, or he wants to give his life to be an inspiration to freedom fighting mages in the future.  Either way, he accepts death.  Stabbing him in the back is not "cowardly" in this circumstance.  And how you can make the connection between bravery and torture I'll never understand.  Please don't try to explain it to me either because...  no.  Just no.

Camenae wrote...

I wish he had had the guts to off himself rather than make his lover/good friend do it.

Some of us don't want him dead.  Why should have that option taken away too?

Anyway, the last thing we need is "he took the cowards way out!" remarks from people who haven't got even the slightest idea how much courage suicide takes. or worse yet, if he did it by being in the Chantry himself.  We've got enough "terrorist" posts without a suicide bombing.

Modifié par Rifneno, 14 avril 2011 - 02:14 .

[nekhbet]

No. Every side was killing innocents at that point, so Anders adding a few more bodies to the pile was a drop in the ocean. Even if he went behind Hawke's back to do it. His death could have served two purposes: either the ritualistic lynching or giving him the peace he wanted. But killing him does nothing to solve the problems he caused. So I rather keep him alive to witness the consequences of his actions, no matter what side my Hawke takes. I really want to see what he's gonna do about it. Other than commit suicide, that is.

Though, my apostate Hawke just cheered when the Chantry exploded and ran off with his crazy boyfriend without giving a flying **** about consequences...

Edit: And that's my "canon" PT. I did kill him once for **** and giggles, but that's alternate reality.

Modifié par nekhbet, 14 avril 2011 - 02:14 .

[LordJeyl]

Anders: "The sooner I die, the sooner my name lives on to inspire generations."

I wish there was a dialogue option where Hawke could say..

Hawke: "No. They'll never you were even here." *stab*

Wouldn't be a far fetched idea either since both non-companion witnesses will be dead shortly after.

[Alcorra]

I sent him away and didn't kill him, but later kind of regretted I didn't. He's nuts and too dangerous to roam freely. Especially when he showed up in the Gallows again (since I sided with mages) as if nothing happened. I again had to send him away, and wish there was an option to say "If I ever see your stupid face again, I'll have Fenris rip your heart out".

[Camenae]

Rifneno wrote...

Camenae wrote...

I wish he had had the guts to off himself rather than make his lover/good friend do it.

Some of us don't want him dead.  Why should have that option taken away too?

Anyway, the last thing we need is "he took the cowards way out!" remarks from people who haven't got even the slightest idea how much courage suicide takes. or worse yet, if he did it by being in the Chantry himself.  We've got enough "terrorist" posts without a suicide bombing.

I know I didn't say it, but I meant if I picked the "Anders dies" option, then I wish I had that choice.  And I get that suicide in Anders' situation would take a lot of courage, because while he's willing to die he still wants to live.  It's courageous to die for what he believed in (I didn't say right or wrong I just say that it does take courage).

I think what I really wish is somebody else stepping up to the plate and doing it if the player does decide that Anders should die for what he did.  Other party members hated him, my Hawke didn't.  Is no one willing to spare her the pain of killing her friend/lover with her own hands? 

I get what you're saying about the suicide-bombing thing.  Definitely was not going for that one.

[Bmeszaros]

If you dismiss him at the end of the "tranquil solution" sidequest, he still ends up blowing up the Chantry. Dismissing him at the end of the game without killing him allows him to hurt more people, that said, I doubt he really died anyways, after whatever happened in Awakenings anyways.....

I vote for a "Multi Stab" feature on Anders, or a Shepard-esque "Make sure he's dead" line to a companion to go finish off Anders.

[nekhbet]

LordJeyl wrote...

Anders: "The sooner I die, the sooner my name lives on to inspire generations."

I wish there was a dialogue option where Hawke could say..

Hawke: "No. They'll never you were even here." *stab*

Wouldn't be a far fetched idea either since both non-companion witnesses will be dead shortly after.

It's possible that he wasn't alone with his bomb plans, so there may be people who survived and spread the story to more mages, thus making him a martyr in any case. He mentions the "mage underground" but doesn't want Hawke specifically getting involved. There's a lot more to the story than what we see through Hawke's eyes.

[Rifneno]

Camenae wrote...

I know I didn't say it, but I meant if I picked the "Anders dies" option, then I wish I had that choice.  And I get that suicide in Anders' situation would take a lot of courage, because while he's willing to die he still wants to live.  It's courageous to die for what he believed in (I didn't say right or wrong I just say that it does take courage).

Ahh, that's fair then.  An option like Ronald Taylor's?

I think what I really wish is somebody else stepping up to the plate and doing it if the player does decide that Anders should die for what he did.  Other party members hated him, my Hawke didn't.  Is no one willing to spare her the pain of killing her friend/lover with her own hands?  

Another excellent point.  It would have made for a great emotional scene for Hawke to try to kill but just not be able to do it.  Especially if in love.

If you take Anders and Aveline in your party when heading to the Gallows to stop the Annulment, a banter will pop up where Aveline tells him "just so we're clear Anders, when this is over you will answer for your crimes."  Of course nothing ever comes of it, but it would've been a route that many people would like to take I'm sure.  Even a more neutral way of dealing with him since it'd let him die for the murders while still letting you keep the only good healer (non-mage Hawke aside) in the game for the hardest part of it.

[Camenae]

Rifneno wrote...

Another excellent point.  It would have made for a great emotional scene for Hawke to try to kill but just not be able to do it.  Especially if in love.

Yes, that would have been REALLY great!  If that means I'm cowardly...then ok I suppose I am.

[Rifneno]

Camenae wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Another excellent point.  It would have made for a great emotional scene for Hawke to try to kill but just not be able to do it.  Especially if in love.

Yes, that would have been REALLY great!  If that means I'm cowardly...then ok I suppose I am.

Anyone who says that's cowardice doesn't know what the word means.  Or is someone who will be featured on a future episode of "America's Most Wanted."

[savagesparrow]

I let him live because he's the only healer in the game

But yeah, I really wish that there were more options to for Hawke to yell at him--I let him live so that, as Merrill said, he could try to redeem himself. But at the final battle he's all "Thanks for supporting me!" and I'm like, "NO! SHUT UP ANDERS! THIS IS BAD AND ITS YOUR FAULT!" but all my Hawke could say was "No problem, glad to have you as a friend!" Seriously, I wish that there was an option where you could just punch him in the face every time he opens his stupid mouth to say something stupid in the final battle. Modders? XD

[Bmeszaros]

If Leilana is right, and this sect of separatist mages called the resolutionists were behind Kirkwall's "Mage Problems" my guess is that Anders is speaking about them when he talks about the "Mage Underground"

My guess is this. Anders makes it known to everyone that he's no fan of the Templars, couple that with his own confession that Justice is becoming harder and harder to control and you have basically a willing "terrorist" for the Resolutionists.

They convince him that all these bad things are happening to mages within the circles (He claims to have knowledge of beatings and rapings, etc) And Anders has just enough hate for the templars pre justice to basically believe everything he's told about them.

I realize this is an excuse for Anders, eventhough I hate him in this game.... but there it is.

[LobselVith8]

Bmeszaros wrote...

If Leilana is right, and this sect of separatist mages called the resolutionists were behind Kirkwall's "Mage Problems" my guess is that Anders is speaking about them when he talks about the "Mage Underground"

My guess is this. Anders makes it known to everyone that he's no fan of the Templars, couple that with his own confession that Justice is becoming harder and harder to control and you have basically a willing "terrorist" for the Resolutionists.

They convince him that all these bad things are happening to mages within the circles (He claims to have knowledge of beatings and rapings, etc) And Anders has just enough hate for the templars pre justice to basically believe everything he's told about them.

I realize this is an excuse for Anders, eventhough I hate him in this game.... but there it is.

The problem with that theory is Karl told Anders about the problems in Kirkwall. That's why he went to the Free Marches to rescue him from the Gallows.

[krasnoarmeets]

My female mage was romancing Anders and she killed him because she was so appalled by what he'd done. It took me a while to make that decision.

'At least I got to be happy for a while.'

For the record Sebastian is an annoying git.

[Peer of the Empire]

Religion is not just about being nice, it is an embodiment of culture and the defense of that culture.

Also Anders dies. Every time