2340 réponses à ce sujet

[nightscrawl]

River5 wrote...

And then, when you talk to him afterwards, try to convince him that whatever he has planned, there would still be time to stop it (Justice will come out and order you to leave Anders alone...  Then Anders says that he's experiencing more and more memory lapses, and no longer has the strenght to fight Justice anymore...  He says something along the lines of "I've tried, don't hate me for failing."

Thanks for the info. I actually did see this scene once, but it was pre-patch.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

couldn't wait to kill him, i saved before so i could repeatedly kill him, God hes a crap character he was better in awakening though

[Areksu]

Hmm, lets see: He willing killed hundreds of humanitarian aid workers when the only target necessary for his operation was the head priest. He continually wined about how bad this action was before doing it, so its not like he was all glowy eyed Vengeance while doing this. Either his mind has been so messed up by Vengeance that he has no semblance of morality left or he did this willingly. In either case, he is beyond any help and does so much collateral damage to people completely unrelated to the conflict that keeping him alive is not an option for a moral character.

Modifié par Areksu, 25 juin 2011 - 04:30 .

[Vit246]

Areksu wrote...

Hmm, lets see: He willing killed hundreds of humanitarian aid workers when the only target necessary for his operation was the head priest. He continually wined about how bad this action was before doing it, so its not like he was all glowy eyed Vengeance while doing this. Either his mind has been so messed up by Vengeance that he has no semblance of morality left or he did this willingly. In either case, he is beyond any help and does so much collateral damage to people completely unrelated to the conflict that keeping him alive is not an option for a moral character.

You clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

What "humanitarian aid workers"? The only people we ever see in the Kirkwall Chantry are Templars and Chantry clergy, along with the Grand Cleric. Anders attacked them precisely because all of those people are directly related to the thousand-year-old conflict. Do you not understand anything about his charater at all?

I understand the Chantry may be a provider of humanitarian aid, but they are so much more than that. Incase you haven't realized, the Chantry is a powerful religious organization that preaches fear and hate towards all mages and has been indoctrinating an entire continent for a thousand years now. They make the laws and policies on Circle mages and apostates, with absolutely no input from the former (not that Circle mages actually have any real power), and the Templar Order is the military arm of the Chantry that enforces those laws. The Chantry is responsible for the way the Magi Circles are.

Modifié par Vit246, 25 juin 2011 - 10:39 .

[River5]

Areksu wrote...

Hmm, lets see: He willing killed hundreds of humanitarian aid workers when the only target necessary for his operation was the head priest. He continually wined about how bad this action was before doing it, so its not like he was all glowy eyed Vengeance while doing this. Either his mind has been so messed up by Vengeance that he has no semblance of morality left or he did this willingly. In either case, he is beyond any help and does so much collateral damage to people completely unrelated to the conflict that keeping him alive is not an option for a moral character.

Perhaps it's just me, but I seem to recall meeting refugees in Darktown complaining about the fact that the Chantry never came down there to help them...

Also, when you meet sisters in Lowtown, they are either asking prostitutes to make donnations to the Chantry, and/or spreading the "word of Andraste".

If they are the "humanitarian aid workers" you claim them to be, they are doing a very poor job at that.

Whereas Anders spent a decade caring for patients and refugees in his clinic for free, and working in collaboration with Lirene (who was trying to find them jobs, food, and other resources).  So, as far as "humanitarian aid" goes, I think Anders could easily teach them holy sisters a thing or two about how it's done.

As for those claims that Anders killed hundreds of people...  I would really love for Gaider or anyone else who wrote that story to give us the actual numbers regarding how many people were present in the Chantry when the light show started.  Not that it would make such a huge difference whether Anders sacrificed 5, or 100 lives to his cause.  But still, I'd like to know.

Killing Elthina alone may have been useless since one of her subordonates could have taken the mantle of Grand Cleric until a new one would have been officially appointed by the Divine.  And, by doing so, prevent Meredith from invoking the Right of Annulment, thus preventing the revolution from ever occuring.

By targetting the whole Chantry, it gave the possibility for Meredith to automatically assume control of the city and declare the RoA on the Circle, forcing all mages in Kirkwall into a "fight, flee, or die" situation.  So anything smaller than that could have made Anders' plan fail.

Still, you have the right to disagree with Anders' motives and/or the means he took to achieve them.

However, declaring that keeping him alive is not an option for a moral character makes no sense to me.

Say that I believed, for a moment there, that he deserved to "pay" for what he's done.

I'd rather he lived with the knowledge of the lives he took (something that will possibly keep haunting him until the end of his days), and face the consequences, good and bad, of his actions.  Have him take full responsibility for what he did instead of offering him the easy way out, and giving him the satisfaction of dying for his cause.

Also, even if I had been in complete disagreement with him; I'm thinking that, after all the good he has done, Anders deserves at the very least a shot at redemption.

Fenris has slaughtered in cold blood the entire tribe that nursed him back to health...  Sten an entire family (including the children) because he had misplaced his sword...  Zevran was an assassin and has even admitted that sometimes, innocent bystanders can get in the way (not to mention that his "marks" probably weren't all evildoers)...

Most of our companions have done terrible things at some point or another in their lives, yet none of them had motivations that were as selfless and noble as Anders (no matter how misguided or delusional some may claim them to be, the fact remains that Anders motives stem from his desire to ensure that mages, one day, would be given the chance to share the same rights and privileges as any other man).

So, if his rebellion succeeds and mages indeed acquire the right to be free from Chantry oversight as a result of it, living in peace with the rest of the population, loving and raising families of their own, I think that it would be fair for him to be there to see the "new world" he helped create, and take credit for it. 

But, if his actions only result in more deaths and slaughter, with mages only being more feared, hated, and mercilessly hunted down...  It would also be justice for him to see the horrors and desolation his actions caused.

I do not claim that this is the most "moral" approach, but I believe that as far as "morality" goes, it is a valid one.

[Huntress]

Areksu wrote...

Hmm, lets see: He willing killed hundreds of humanitarian aid workers when the only target necessary for his operation was the head priest. He continually wined about how bad this action was before doing it, so its not like he was all glowy eyed Vengeance while doing this. Either his mind has been so messed up by Vengeance that he has no semblance of morality left or he did this willingly. In either case, he is beyond any help and does so much collateral damage to people completely unrelated to the conflict that keeping him alive is not an option for a moral character.

ROFL.. where are this Humanitarian workers?? The only thing they helped was how to keep tight control over mages, spreed lies about how all man are equals ( but mages).. very humaneing indeed.. I cant stop laughing, let me take a breath and keep going on laughing.

Moral character as a mage should allow meredith/chantry to make him/her tranquil? Or better to allow this type of people to kill them so OTHERS are safe?
Someone should decide what to do with you because you shouldn't think/decide that for you'rself?
Thats very sick.. some people do deserver tyrann's as leaders or worst.

People have lost the meaning of freedom or die.. they got use to others giving to them, intead of them working to get it, got use to what others think is best for them instead of them thinking of whats better for them. Or feel pity of a criminal and see the victim's as  idiots who shouldn't have been in  there in the first place.. Sick

I don't like people to tell me when: to eat, sleep,work or whats best for me, I know what is best for me and not one is going to change that.

Thast why I like Anders, he rather died that let others keep controlling his/others mages lifes. He want to stop others from dictating when mages should: sleep, eat or die.

Modifié par Huntress, 25 juin 2011 - 07:01 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Yep he just wants to tell others when its time to die!
... oh wait.

[Huntress]

NO he wants to tell others( mages and templars) ENOUGH!

Modifié par Huntress, 25 juin 2011 - 09:17 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

No he just wants to whine like a ****, then kill everyone like a emo **** because the wardens took his cat away

Modifié par DinoSteve, 25 juin 2011 - 11:38 .

[Huntress]

I didn't know the war started for a cat.. wow..Now everything makes perfect sense.

He doesn't whine for his life, he is trying to fight for it, for the RIGHT to live and to choose what to do with it.
Oh and the whining job was left for sebastian.

[Hurbster]

'Course I stabbed him. Guy blew up a church. What did he expect me to do, pat him on the back and say 'good one, jimmy' ?

[Vit246]

Hurbster wrote...

'Course I stabbed him. Guy blew up a church. What did he expect me to do, pat him on the back and say 'good one, jimmy' ?

You are under the common misconception that the Chantry is that little local church down the street with the kindly old priest that preaches peace/tolerance/love and simply provides relief, shelter, and housing to the poor, the destitute, and the orphans purely out of altruism.

I don't have the time or inclination right now to explain, so I'll just say this: The Chantry is so much more than a "church".

Modifié par Vit246, 27 juin 2011 - 07:25 .

[Jugo616]

Hurbster wrote...

'Course I stabbed him. Guy blew up a church. What did he expect me to do, pat him on the back and say 'good one, jimmy' ?

Actually, that is just the thing that I wanted to do.

[Agamo45]

I always killed that bastard. That death scene was weak though. Stabbing him in the back with that tiny ass knife. It seems like he's gonna come back. Should've taken his Goddamn head off.

[CalJones]

He won't come back, according to Gaider. If you killed him, he stays dead.
I've only killed him once, on my pro-Templar playthrough. I felt pretty bad about it. All my other playthroughs have been pro-mage and I've let him live. I like Anders and I never liked the Chantry.

[berelinde]

Yeah, I did that one pro-templar playthrough "for science"... and then I had to reinstall after a virus ate my computer and forced me to reinstall my OS. I backed up the saved games, but the achievements that had not yet uploaded to BSN reset. So now I have to do it again. But this time, I'll kill him rather than forcing him to accompany me to the Gallows. It's far, far kinder.

[Teddie Sage]

I didn't kill him. I'll never do. But man, where's my option to kill Sebastian?!? Dammit BioWare.

[metalgirl-1]

Agamo45 wrote...

I always killed that bastard. That death scene was weak though. Stabbing him in the back with that tiny ass knife. It seems like he's gonna come back. Should've taken his Goddamn head off.

That's what I've been saying!! As soon as the scene happened I was so disappointed because I thought he should have been decapitated like the whiny traitor he is. He completely violated my Hawke's little trust she granted him and the death scene makes it look like Hawke's betraying him. Give me a break.

[LobselVith8]

DinoSteve wrote...

No he just wants to whine like a ****, then kill everyone like a emo **** because the wardens took his cat away

Anders wants to bring an end to a system that he and others (like pro-mage Hawke) view as slavery. Anders wants to liberate men, women, and children across the continent from subjugation under the Chantry and its templars. Anders had to kill his first love, a Harrowed mage who was made tranquil by a sadistic templar who implied he would rape the child mage Ella after making her tranquil (and he made another female mage tranquil because she was in love with a fellow mage, and revealed that now only Alrik can command her).

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

What he did was terrible, and I'd never be able to side with him after what he did. But at the same time, I didn't want to kill him. As he says himself, killing him only makes him a martyr, and like with Loghain I don't want to kill someone I can redeem. Unfortunately when I let him live in the Mage path he didn't seem to get that I thought he was a prat. So I killed him.

But now I'm going to side with the Templars and bring him. That's the most appropriate reaction to what he did. Making him see the consequences of what he's done and making him atone for what he did, defying Justice, is for me the best course of action.

[Blessed Silence]

mrsph wrote...

Yes.

It pained me to do so, since he was one of my favorites, but Sebastian is also my favorite character. I was also pretty appalled that he decided to destroy a place full of innocent people just to incite even more chaos.

First playthrough I romanced Anders and let him live.

Second playthrough, I romanced Sebby, told Anders to leave Kirwall, and offed the bugger in the end.

But ... it felt so ... blah.  In all honesty, killing Anders, IMO, did not feel it was the right thing to do.  Won't bring those in the Chantry back.  And no one in my party even seemed to care or really react.

So ... *shrugs* kinda disappointed.

[embrace eternity]

When told by Knight Cmdr. Meredith that as the Apostate Champion of Kirkwall I was being "Tolerated" I wanted to call her out right there and do away with her.
What Ander's did unilaterally without repentance or remorse deserved the death sentence.
Sebastian wants Anders dead so badly let him do it himself

[Marduksdragon]

embrace eternity wrote...

When told by Knight Cmdr. Meredith that as the Apostate Champion of Kirkwall I was being "Tolerated" I wanted to call her out right there and do away with her.
What Ander's did unilaterally without repentance or remorse deserved the death sentence.
Sebastian wants Anders dead so badly let him do it himself

Yeah, I killed Anders. It made me feel awful, but I did it anyway. I even did it in most of the runs I sided with the mages because I feel like it's more merciful than letting Vengeance eat him.

I wanted to kill Meredith looooooong before then. I kept going "Come on game. Let me off her... my Hawke never would have sat still this long... at least let me pay Zevran to do it...."

Far as Sebastian-- he was raised by Elthina who is queen of all waffles.  He's overly passionate, which even she calls him on, and so he's going to rage and threaten but he's only dangerous if he leaves angry and has enough money to pay mercenaries to come kick butt in his name. He's alread proven very capable of doing this.

Modifié par Marduksdragon, 10 juillet 2011 - 04:53 .

[DRTJR]

I killed him, He's unstable, untrusting, untrustworthy, AN ABOMINATION, and a hypocritical moron.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

For me it's comes down to how I'm role playing my Hawke. Some Hawke's have killed him and some have allowed him to live. He was my LI on two playthroughs, one lover killed him and the other allowed him to remain by her side. I've also played a mage and sided with the Templars.

I didn't agree with his actions in blowing up the chantry, I wouldn't have had a problem with him blowing up Meredith and the gallows which I felt would have been better served, and I feel it was actually Justice and not the real Anders that made that bomb. In all playthroughs I have helped him gathered the materials. In many playthroughs I've diverted the Grand Cleric so he could sneak in and other times I've said no, since he wouldn't tell me what he was planning.

I agree with a few other posters, I don't believe for one minute the wardens told him to get rid of his cat. I'd say that was Justice.