2340 réponses à ce sujet

[ISI-Society]

In my 3rd playthough, I was an apostate mage bent on taking out the crazy extremists on both sides of the fence, and restoring the proper synergistic balance between the circle and the templars ... with an eye towards becomming either vicount, first enchanter, or both. 

It worked ... even though I was an apostate, I still managed to achieve full friendship with my entire party (everyone but carver, with whom I deliberately provoked rivalry, for the trophy of the same name), and I got both the magehunter and the vicount achievements in the same playthough.

Anyway, yes ... I killed Anders at 100% friendship after he destroyed the chantry.  My one regret was that Sebastian wasn't in the chantry at the same time.

[Jamie9]

I am pro-Mage but my canon Hawke does kill Anders upon his act, it isn't so much the act itself but how many people will die due to this. Every death in this war lays upon Anders' shoulders. I believe that it could have been solved diplomatically, but Anders wanted to blow up a church. The only person in the whole of Kirkwall who truly believed, and had the power, to opress the mages was Meredith. She could've been locked up or something. No need to start a world war. And you know, Sebastian was gonna crush Kirkwall with his Starkhaven army. We didn't need more death.

[DRTJR]

The divine was to the point where she basically said F*** Kirkwall, let's destroy it, pave over it, and paint it green. And I hated anders 2.0 aka crazy steve

[KyokushinTruth]

i am at that point right now, wtf am i supposed to do if i kill him i have no healer anymore and am SOL if i spare him all my templar choices don't make sense with this decision completely screwing up my characters persona, this is a serious game flaw.

Any advice?

[Rifneno]

KyokushinTruth wrote...

Any advice?

Don't support the fascists?

[KyokushinTruth]

Rifneno wrote...

KyokushinTruth wrote...

Any advice?

Don't support the fascists?

I don't play video games with morality and beliefs i hold in real life
Could give a **** what's right its a video game i always play the evil character

but it looks like ill have to let anders live simply because i need a healer, such bs

[Rifneno]

KyokushinTruth wrote...

I don't play video games with morality and beliefs i hold in real life
Could give a **** what's right its a video game i always play the evil character

but it looks like ill have to let anders live simply because i need a healer, such bs

And making him kill his own people isn't evil?

[KyokushinTruth]

Rifneno wrote...

KyokushinTruth wrote...

I don't play video games with morality and beliefs i hold in real life
Could give a **** what's right its a video game i always play the evil character

but it looks like ill have to let anders live simply because i need a healer, such bs

And making him kill his own people isn't evil?

hmmm that's a great point, ill use that to justify it, thanks.

[KyokushinTruth]

Rifneno wrote...

KyokushinTruth wrote...

I don't play video games with morality and beliefs i hold in real life
Could give a **** what's right its a video game i always play the evil character

but it looks like ill have to let anders live simply because i need a healer, such bs

And making him kill his own people isn't evil?

well i just tried that, he says no...damn i guess i HAVE to kill him then

[Ryzaki]

KyokushinTruth wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

KyokushinTruth wrote...

I don't play video games with morality and beliefs i hold in real life
Could give a **** what's right its a video game i always play the evil character

but it looks like ill have to let anders live simply because i need a healer, such bs

And making him kill his own people isn't evil?

well i just tried that, he says no...damn i guess i HAVE to kill him then

If you rival Anders by supporting the templars all game he'll help you anull the circle. Afterwards it's implied he killed himself.

[KyokushinTruth]

Ryzaki wrote...

KyokushinTruth wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

KyokushinTruth wrote...

I don't play video games with morality and beliefs i hold in real life
Could give a **** what's right its a video game i always play the evil character

but it looks like ill have to let anders live simply because i need a healer, such bs

And making him kill his own people isn't evil?

well i just tried that, he says no...damn i guess i HAVE to kill him then

If you rival Anders by supporting the templars all game he'll help you anull the circle. Afterwards it's implied he killed himself.

interesting...i had full rivalry with him and supported the templars all game but he said no he would rather die and it makes u kill him or let him go.

[Rifneno]

KyokushinTruth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

KyokushinTruth wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

KyokushinTruth wrote...

I don't play video games with morality and beliefs i hold in real life
Could give a **** what's right its a video game i always play the evil character

but it looks like ill have to let anders live simply because i need a healer, such bs

And making him kill his own people isn't evil?

well i just tried that, he says no...damn i guess i HAVE to kill him then

If you rival Anders by supporting the templars all game he'll help you anull the circle. Afterwards it's implied he killed himself.

interesting...i had full rivalry with him and supported the templars all game but he said no he would rather die and it makes u kill him or let him go.

Do you have the game patched to 1.3?  Up until the last patch (1.3) it was bugged.

[Sith Grey Warden]

In my first (and only complete) playthrough, I played a mage who was rather reasonable: he opposed blood magic and working with demons, but wanted greater freedom for the mages. When Anders destroyed the Chantry, my Hawke saw that as undermining everything he had done to build legitimacy for the cause of freeing the mages. When Meredith subsequently declared the Circle annulled, I was stunned by the lack of logic in her actions. Thus, I killed Anders for his grave crimes, but sided with the Circle because they should not be punished for another's crime.

Then Orsino went nuts and all the meaning of my decision disappeared.

[GavrielKay]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...
Then Orsino went nuts and all the meaning of my decision disappeared.

Orsino going harvester is one of the biggest head scratchers in the game.  The storyline would have been cleaner if you'd just had one "boss" battle in the 'The Last Straw': either Meredith or Orsino depending on which side Hawke chooses. 

Meredith turning on pro-Templar Hawke is slightly less bewildering, given we learn she's under the influence of the idol.

I only killed Anders in one playthrough and I hated to do it.  I liked his Awakenings personality better than DA2, but I still feel for him too much to just knife him in the back.  I figure he'll torture himself for however long he lives anyway.  My canon play is as a rogueHawke romancing Anders and helping him to free the mages in honor of Bethany who died in the deep roads.

[Ryzaki]

KyokushinTruth wrote...
interesting...i had full rivalry with him and supported the templars all game but he said no he would rather die and it makes u kill him or let him go.

Ah you need the latest patch. *and* you need to reload to a save *before* the "Justice" quest. Then you should be able to have him join you whenyou support the templars. 

[Sinaxi]

It's obvious that Meredith was looking for basically ANY excuse to kill
all the mages. What I did hate throughout the game though was I felt
like we saw more first-hand experiences of mages using their power
recklessly and for evil purposes. (Mother's death, Orsino even knowing
about it, Grace suddenly turning on you even after helping her, etc) And
yet in most cases only HEARD about what the templars were doing, and
how they were progressing to greater extremes - though both sides were
clearly doing this. 

I suppose this bothered me because at the
same time it's my personal opinion that it seems like the game is
supposed to be played from a mage perspective, apostate father, magic in
family...and one thing I love is Flemeth's advice "We stand upon the
precipice of change, the world fears the inevitable plummet into the
abyss. Watch for that moment, and it when comes do not hesitate to
leap." To me, this relates a lot more to siding with mages because
society looks up to Templars as protectors against magic and by siding
with Templars you do it in hopes of restoring order instead of making a
statement against Mage oppression. Not to say that Flemeth doesn't have
ulterior motives in favor of an all out mage-templar war but I still
think her advice really hits home at the end of the game when you have
sided with the mages - especially if you are playing a mage.

Anders did not by any means do the "right" thing, but he definitely made a statement as the Chantry IS
an integral aspect of the struggle - if not THE integral aspect. Does
that mean innocents deserved to die? No, definitely not. He is by all
means an extremist, but in the context of my game I still chose to spare
him because in theory he is someone that has been your friend for
around 6-7 years and truly believes in the cause - though that extremism
is only worsened by having brought Justice into himself and I do think
that by that time he gave up absolutely any hope of solving the growing
issue peacefully so I don't think he thought
of it as destroying everything he had worked so hard to prove about
mages. I also disagree that the matter could have been solved
diplomatically, ESPECIALLY in Kirkwall.
Everyone in Kirkwall was going stark-raving mad, and in other places
this is an institution that has been around FOREVER they aren't suddenly
going to just be all for Mage freedom.

Ohhh, and being made a Tranquil is probably worse than death..(to everyone who isn't a Templar and a Tranquil themselves) lol. Giant wall of text...I was bored.

Modifié par Tidra, 11 juillet 2011 - 06:46 .

[Arokel]

My canon Hawke spared him. I know that he deserved death for what he did. He probablly killed dozens betweent the blast itself, the flying debris, and fires the flaming debris started. But I just... couldn't do it.

In DAA he was a close friend and invaluable ally of my Dalish Warden. In DAII He was my apostate Hawke's bff and fellow mage revolutionary. Andera was one of the few people who knew what it was like to be an apostate.

What Anders did was monstrous and history will in all likelihood condemn him for his actions and my Hawke for letting him go. But I just couldn't bring myself to do it...

[Sinaxi]

Another thing is I feel like probably A LOT of people who killed Anders didn't consider the fact that many of them probably also.. spared Zevran in DA:O, recruited Sten, weren't wishing they could kill Fenris after he revealed killing an entire village of people, and not to mention Leilana for all her chantry-love does NOT come from a goody-two shoes background. Zevran is an assassin and people absolutely love his character but then balk at the notion of Anders blowing up a Chantry? Hell, Morrigan wanted to wipe out the whole Circle just because they were WEAK for allowing the Templars to control them. Morrigan probably would have wanted to come back out and kill all the Templars too, and not blink twice about it if we didn't need support for the Blight. Many of the companions also condoned slavery (zev, morrigan) in the form of Golems simply due to TACTICAL advantage. Oh..and Isabela not returning a tome that led to the city having increased difficulties with the Qunari that lead to the Viscount's head being chopped off and tons of people killed. Also...Merrill is a naive idiot that uses blood magic that she KNOWS will have bad consequences and this can potentially lead to having to wipe out her whole dalish clan if they fight you.

It's like people just suddenly forget all these things and Anders, who actually shows regret for what he does, needs to be stabbed in the back automatically because Grand Cleric Elthina was such a nice lady!

[esper]

@Tidra. Exactly. Let's not forget Hawke and the Warden kills alot of person as well.

[Ryzaki]

...Hawke and the Warden can only choose to kill innocent people/people who deserve it.

I kill Zevran and I don't recruit Sten (on my canon good guys [which is sad because he is one of my fav companions]) so..yeah. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 juillet 2011 - 08:17 .

[esper]

Murder is murder no matter you intentention. Even if you kill in self defense it is still murder. And Hawke is basically a mercanary from act 1 and up.

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...

Murder is murder no matter you intentention. Even if you kill in self defense it is still murder. And Hawke is basically a mercanary from act 1 and up.

Uh...no it's not. You might think so but that's not the case. 

So no Hawke doesn't have to be a murderer unless you want him/her to be one. Hawke also doesn't have to be a merc. He/she can be a smuggler.   Hawke can also tell the Merc guy he doesn't kill for money suggesting that Hawke hasn't killed anyone in his time as a merc. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 juillet 2011 - 09:15 .

[esper]

Perhaps there is different in english to my country? In my country the word that translate to murderer is defined by a person that kills another person. It has nothing to do with law. We do have a different verb for mudering and killing, but killing in self-defense is really, really hard to prove. We had a case where an shop owner shot an robber who was threatning him with a knife or gun. Both robber and shop-owner was put on trial on the same time even. I think that the shop-owner was allowed to walk free in the end, but he had to stand trial for the act of harming another person. He wasn't just declared innocent right from the start. The act of killing the magistrates son would be considered murder in my country as he poses no bodily harm to you.

It would certainly not be seen as someone who deserved it. Hawke is a mercanary from act one forth, because you takes jobs which basically boils down to: Do armed jobs for money.

[ObserverStatus]

sevenplusone wrote...

That was such a dick move.

Also, who did you side with? I ended up siding with the Templars. Both sides are ****ed but I liked Meredith's character. On top of that, Anders really ****ed the mages. Order did need to be kept, so imo siding with the Templars was a ****ty choice, but the best one.

I know, right?  Anders puts on a fantastic display of fireworks, and Hawke rewards him with a knife in the back! What a butthead.

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...

Perhaps there is different in english to my country? In my country the word that translate to murderer is defined by a person that kills another person. It has nothing to do with law. We do have a different verb for mudering and killing, but killing in self-defense is really, really hard to prove. We had a case where an shop owner shot an robber who was threatning him with a knife or gun. Both robber and shop-owner was put on trial on the same time even. I think that the shop-owner was allowed to walk free in the end, but he had to stand trial for the act of harming another person. He wasn't just declared innocent right from the start. The act of killing the magistrates son would be considered murder in my country as he poses no bodily harm to you.

It would certainly not be seen as someone who deserved it. Hawke is a mercanary from act one forth, because you takes jobs which basically boils down to: Do armed jobs for money.

Very different in my country. Murder is UNLAWFUL killing of another human (usually with malicious intent). Soldiers do not murder combatants they kill them. If you kill someone legally you kill them. Now you can argue that both Hawke and Anders are killers sure. But not that they're both murders.  Self defense is hard to prove but if someone comes at you with a weapon you're legally allowed to kill them (technically you're allowed to stop them but how else are you gonna safely stop someone with a gun other than blowing there brains out? If you manage to disarm them however killing them becomes excessive force and thus murder (in most cases).). Hell in some states someone breaking into your house at night legally allows you to kill them. (which is a lot easier to prove than the former). 

Except Hawke doesn't have to kill the magistrates son. He also doesn't have to be a merc. Hawke can just as easily be a smuggler!

So as I said before Hawke does not have to be a murderer. Your Hawke maybe one but please don't say other Hawkes are as you don't know those other Hawkes. 

There is no forced quest that Hawke *has* to murder anyone during. Every quest that's forced has Hawke either killing in self defense for himself (Isabela's quest is such a scenario) or for someone else. The only character recruitment that has Hawke acting in a murderous manner is Fenris' recruitment. And even then Hawke doesn't actually planning on murdering anyone. (Fenris is going to do that) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 juillet 2011 - 09:31 .