2340 réponses à ce sujet

[Gavinthelocust]

bobobo878 wrote...

I know, right?  Anders puts on a fantastic display of fireworks, and Hawke rewards him with a knife in the back! What a butthead.

It even shot out nice bloody chunks of meat for everyone, I can tell you those starving beggars were never happier. Anders is such a thoughtful guy.

[esper]

I agree. Hawke doesn't have to kill the magistrate son. I picked him, because a lot of people thinks of him as a person who 'derserves' to die. My Hawke is a smugler in her first year, but the job she has to take to earn the 50 sovereigns is a mercanaries job. I offer an armed services (to protect or to kill depends on your Hawke) in exhange for gold.

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...

I agree. Hawke doesn't have to kill the magistrate son. I picked him, because a lot of people thinks of him as a person who 'derserves' to die. My Hawke is a smugler in her first year, but the job she has to take to earn the 50 sovereigns is a mercanaries job. I offer an armed services (to protect or to kill depends on your Hawke) in exhange for gold.

That is an act of murder true. My Hawkes do tend to do that except the ones I pick who don't kill anyone who doesn't attack them first (playing him was pretty fun.) 

Kill darkspawn. They're not humans. Thus murder does not and can not apply. Murder is unlawful killing of a human being by *another* human being.  Edit: It's not worth the potential ****storm. Nevermind.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 juillet 2011 - 09:36 .

[esper]

The warden gets involved in civil war and a dwarwen civil war. Then there is all the werewolves who refused to negotiate until you are basically standing on their doorstep. And there is the enthralled people in the tower who are atticking you because the have fallen to demons. Is it possible to get through Haven without killing everyone up till Kolghrim?
As long the darkspawn wasn't thinking I agrees with you. T

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...

The warden gets involved in civil war and a dwarwen civil war. Then there is all the werewolves who refused to negotiate until you are basically standing on their doorstep. And there is the enthralled people in the tower who are atticking you because the have fallen to demons. Is it possible to get through Haven without killing everyone up till Kolghrim?
 As long the darkspawn wasn't thinking I agrees with you. T

 

The Warden like Hawke only kills when he/she has to depending on origin. I have little doubt that the DN, CE (though the CE isn't a murderer if female. Self defense...the male elf can probably slide on that excuse but not as well) and DC are probably murders. Dalish elf, human noble and mage however...they defintely do not have to murder anyone. And the mage *can't* murder anyone until they leave the tower.  

Killing people is what everyone does. 

As for Haven...sadly no. The village attacks you once you reach the church regardless. The werewolves attack the Warden first. The Warden can even attempt to talk to them but they attack anyway. ...the only defend herself warden was pretty fun too. She recruited Zev but not Sten and Zev betrayed her.

Hawke/the Warden is only a murderer if you make him/her one.

My templar supporting Hawke never murdered anyone. He killed people by the droves though. (I'm not sure if Arishok duel counts as murder...it's legal in Qunari land but not in Kirkwall (at least I don't believe it's legal in Kirkwall) if it does then that's one person). ...Then again it's self defense for those poor sods that the Arishok is threatening. Even the annullment since it's legal isn't an act of murder. 

Edit: This is of course referring to the laws of my state where I'm used to them. Every country/state has it's own views and laws. Just saying how it looks from my state's point of view. 

It maybe murder somewhere else. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 juillet 2011 - 10:01 .

[esper]

Killing people does seems to be a very good... eh... talent to have in Thedas, at least if you want to survive. That still doesn't mean that isn't murder. If you kill i self defense you basically value your life other the agressors. Don't take me wrong, I would do it if I was attacked. I am absolutely not willing to be a martyr for an ideal not in real life and in games... well I wouldn't get far, would I? But it doesn't change the deed of killing.

as far the warden, once you are have killed Howe you become a murder since you can choose between going to prison and then killing the guards who are ust doing their jobs or fighting the soldiers who accuse you of killing Howe (Which you did). Is there are way out without killing either. Anora always turns on me.

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...

Killing people does seems to be a very good... eh... talent to have in Thedas, at least if you want to survive. That still doesn't mean that isn't murder. If you kill i self defense you basically value your life other the agressors. Don't take me wrong, I would do it if I was attacked. I am absolutely not willing to be a martyr for an ideal not in real life and in games... well I wouldn't get far, would I? But it doesn't change the deed of killing.

as far the warden, once you are have killed Howe you become a murder since you can choose between going to prison and then killing the guards who are ust doing their jobs or fighting the soldiers who accuse you of killing Howe (Which you did). Is there are way out without killing either. Anora always turns on me.

Killing ! Murder. 

But we're obviously not going to agree on that. 

Nope. Howe's guards attack the Warden first if he/she uses the disguise until they're in the dungeon and Howe threatens and attacks the Warden first as well.  

As for resisting arrest. Once again self defense (you have no reason to believe Loghian's soldiers are gonna do you any favors. Isn't there a surrender option? I remember taking one.  (Though Anora is a little snake that needs a knife between the ribs if she had been murderable even my "no murdering!" wardens would've broke their code.) For those that refuse to murder I also let Alistair duel Loghain.  Completely taken out of their hands. 

(Though I just fail the "JUST LEAVE" persuade check to the slaver on purpose so he can attack me and my Wardens have fun tearing him apart. ) 

I don't remember Revan or the Spirit Monk being forced to murder anyone either. You have to kill alot of people but they always attack first or are threatening someone else. If you feel like being DS/CF you can murder plenty of people but you never have too. 

As for being in jail (I'm not sure if he's killed or knocked unconcious. I believe that's left to player interpretation.)Then of course the warden can wait for his/her teammates to bust them out (and afterwards would be self-defense. Especially considering he/she was put in jail over a lie) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 juillet 2011 - 10:15 .

[Quinnzel]

I make it a point not to let Anders live at all in new playthroughs, no matter who I side with.

[esper]

No we are not going to agree on the difference between killing and murder, I think. Funny enough I like Anonara, because she is so obviously a little snake. I found it refreshing.
I killed that slaver too. My canon warden was and elf so she took it rather personal.

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...

No we are not going to agree on the difference between killing and murder, I think. Funny enough I like Anonara, because she is so obviously a little snake. I found it refreshing.
I killed that slaver too. My canon warden was and elf so she took it rather personal.

Ugh. I want to strangle her. 

Slaver always dies even with my no murdering characters. Luckily slavers tend to be stupid and try to kill someone attempting to be nice. 

[esper]

To return to Anders. I don't kill him because I dislike killing companions. I just don't like the 'he is a murder and must die argumet- when almost all of the companions and in my opinion Hawke as well are murderers too. There are many... better arguments if you want to kill Anders.

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...

To return to Anders. I don't kill him because I dislike killing companions. I just don't like the 'he is a murder and must die argumet- when almost all of the companions and in my opinion Hawke as well are murderers too. There are many... better arguments if you want to kill Anders.

Aye. 

I kill Anders (in the games where I kill him) either out of self defense or because he's a danger to everyone around him. 

[esper]

See those reason I can understand. I can't get my Hawkes to do it, but I can certainly uderstand it. And slaver also dies in my playthroughs. My current Hawke should hand Fenris over to Danerius, but... I just want to kick that man very hard in a very sensitive area... so right now she have been standing outside the hanged man for days and glaring at the door.

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...

See those reason I can understand. I can't get my Hawkes to do it, but I can certainly uderstand it. And slaver also dies in my playthroughs. My current Hawke should hand Fenris over to Danerius, but... I just want to kick that man very hard in a very sensitive area... so right now she have been standing outside the hanged man for days and glaring at the door.

I just wish the backstab wasn't so weak. It's a bad scene to me. Very awkward. Anders gets this odd look on his face to me that looks like he's taking a...you know and it just doesn't look right. It's easier to let him go then have him come back and attack Hawke. (of course that only works if said Hawke is siding with the templars). 

Giving Fenris to Danarius is one of those choices that none of my Hawke's will make seriously. Just...nope. Not even douchebag Hawke. And Douchebag Hawke is the KING of douchebags. If Hawke doesn't trust Fenris he/she can tell him to leave right after killing Danarius. Hawke does not have to give Fenris to Danarius to get Fenris to leave. 

And Danarius is a ugly  womanly (for some mindboggling reason he uses the female animation walking rig) creep. He couldn't even be a sexy masculine creep. <_< 

Though I do understand why some *would* do it...I just won't. 

And I should be going to bed. Nice talking with you. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 juillet 2011 - 10:36 .

[esper]

Yes, but my Hawke is very... petty and she is still mad at him for sleeping with her and then dumping her. (Worst reason ever. I know). She is at full friendship with Fenris so I am not sure I can get him to leave. But I have consided not doing his final question belief and then kill him when he turns agaist her. That would hurt, but... it would also make sense story-wise.
And yes, the killing animation for Anders is also a very good reason as to why I won't do it. Having him attack Hawke is so much better, and I am considering doing it once I succes in playing a templar- runthrough.

[Rifneno]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

When Anders destroyed the Chantry, my Hawke saw that as undermining everything he had done to build legitimacy for the cause of freeing the mages.

Your Hawke never had a prayer in hell of succeeding. There was nothing to undermine. Thousand-year old dictatorships don't relinquish or reform peacefully.

Ryzaki wrote...

Kill darkspawn. They're not humans. Thus murder does not and can not apply. Murder is unlawful killing of a human being by *another* human being.

I bet the elves love you even more than I do.

esper wrote...

Funny enough I like Anonara, because she is so obviously a little snake.

Aww, that's not fair. Most snakes aren't nearly as horrible as Anora. Maybe the black mamba, that thing's an ****. But most snakes only bite when they feel significantly threatened (in many cases, accidentally stepped on). Whereas Anora... I just think Geralt of Rivia needs to spend a night sleeping next to her mother's corpse, that's all I'm saying.

[esper]

@ Rifeno. I agree that Hawke didn't have a chance of a compromise. But some peoples Hawke may believe that he/she do. As for what Ryzaki wrote: We were discussing the definition of murder and Ryzaki were pointing out the difference between killing thinking beings and non thinking beings.

I here by apologize to all snake for that comparision. It wasn't fair to the snakes.

[Itkovian]

I killed him, despite siding with the mages. Innocents were killed in an act of senseless terrorism.

It was Justice, and he accepted as such.

Itkovian

[Sinaxi]

I think it's just kind of a bit hard to judge everything as being black and white in a game like Dragon Age where, as people have said, you are running around killing people on a constant basis. My point isn't if they are "bad guys" or not, simply the world you live in is cutthroat and as I said half your companions are going to have differing views on things and also shady backgrounds which makes the game interesting.

Isabela is the only one that constantly made me laugh in DA2 "so uh, what do you guys think?" (about killing Anders) "BOLD PLAN! Uh, at least I thought so..." 

[Ryzaki]

esper wrote...

Yes, but my Hawke is very... petty and she is still mad at him for sleeping with her and then dumping her. (Worst reason ever. I know). She is at full friendship with Fenris so I am not sure I can get him to leave. But I have consided not doing his final question belief and then kill him when he turns agaist her. That would hurt, but... it would also make sense story-wise.
And yes, the killing animation for Anders is also a very good reason as to why I won't do it. Having him attack Hawke is so much better, and I am considering doing it once I succes in playing a templar- runthrough.

 

LOL that is a horrible reason. Oh yeah you can only tell rival Fenris to leave. Oh yes get him to betray you. You get some juicy "I love you why are you doing this to me." dialogue. 

[esper]

@Ryzaki. Yeah... I think I I will just try that. Because... I am getting a little tired staring at the hanged man icon and trying to convice myself just to get this over with. Handing Isabela over was enough.

[DRTJR]

Kirkwall was a powder keg on a jenga tower made of C-4. Isabella brought the fire to Kirkwall, Anders then blew the place sky high. Anders could have gone for better targets than the grand cleric of Kirkwall, Losing a ton of Allies in the process when if he wanted to shake things up he could of left for Orlais and done the same to the Grand cathedral with the Divine inside of it and had the same effect but Eliminating the source and not a potential ally.

[ObserverStatus]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

I know, right?  Anders puts on a fantastic display of fireworks, and Hawke rewards him with a knife in the back! What a butthead.

It even shot out nice bloody chunks of meat for everyone, I can tell you those starving beggars were never happier. Anders is such a thoughtful guy.

Ewww, you mean that bleeding heart mage apologist Grand Cleric Elthina?  I hope te beggars don't catch hippie from her.

[Plaintiff]

DRTJR wrote...

Kirkwall was a powder keg on a jenga tower made of C-4. Isabella brought the fire to Kirkwall, Anders then blew the place sky high. Anders could have gone for better targets than the grand cleric of Kirkwall, Losing a ton of Allies in the process when if he wanted to shake things up he could of left for Orlais and done the same to the Grand cathedral with the Divine inside of it and had the same effect but Eliminating the source and not a potential ally.

Blowing up the Divine would make Elthina a potential ally?

I can't think of any scenario where this would make sense.

[PrinceLionheart]

Quinnzel wrote...

I make it a point not to let Anders live at all in new playthroughs, no matter who I side with.

Same here. I don't care how oppressed he previously felt, he murdered innocent people to instigate a war. That and he had the gall to tell me he wanted to die a maytr anyway.