2340 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Maruset wrote...

and made him an emo punk instead of someone moderately funny. I bet justice made him get rid of the cat, not the Wardens

The cat called him a demon ... so he killed it.

[gt86]

I killed his selfish ass with a dagger in the back but sided with the mages since my sister is a mage

[Dreskar]

I sided with the mages, but for what he did he brought it on himself, he played host to the spirit of Justice and corrupted his purpose through his own hate, so when he used that hate to kill the innocent within the chantry then he deserved to be killed before he could ever see the mages finally set free.

In a twisted way I considered it the ultimate punishment, because of his actions he would never get to see his dream fulfilled. Then again I am really honoured based and was trying to find a calm solution to the problem, so when Anders blew up the chantry I about had a heart attack, as I was about to sway the Chantry to the Mages side anyways...

Edit: As a note I played a Mage

Modifié par Dreskar, 12 mars 2011 - 05:07 .

[Treemarker]

F!Hawke mage with Merril as mate and Anders as friend.  I knifed the terrorist without a thought.  If I could have, I'd have used magic to restore him and burn his ass to death.  Then I proceeded to kill every Templar I came across.  I will not allow the slaughter of innocents in my city.  

[Arbalest7]

Hell yes. I was particularly disgusted when he started calling himself a "martyr" for his "glorious" revolution. Bastard had no regrets.

[LobselVith8]

Sonris89 wrote...

Andres did a dick move, he killed who knows how many people, both sides condemmed him, Fenris and Aveline both said he needed to be punished. Merril said he should help but hell, after she got her whole clan butchered, what kind of good advice could she give? I was fed up with her too.

Merrill didn't get her whole clan butchered. They either kill you because their bigoted idiots who saw her as a "flat ear" or they accept that the Keeper loved her more than she loved the clan.

Furthermore, he destroyed a building that belonged to an organization that enslaved mages across the entire continent. Anders saw his people as slaves to the Chantry and its templars, and he wanted to free them from slavery. How is it a "dick move" to want to emancipate your people from tyranny? Should he have written them a strongly worded letter instead? Anders actions can end up emancipating the mages from slavery. Considering that the Chantry and its military arm basically control the lives of mages, who have no basic rights, can be given a lobotomy where they have no free will, and can tortured and raped, I'm not surprised Anders destroyed the building of an organization that enslaved mages.

Sonris89 wrote...

Merideth was beyond hope of calming, but maybe the templars and citizens of kirkwall were more forgiving up until he murdered the only neutral party left in the city. Couldn't he have bombed the knight commanders office instead? He had contacts and ways into the Gallows.

The point was for mages to rise up and fight for their freedom instead of accepting a system of subjugation.

Sonris89 wrote...

Andres represented everything wrong with mages. Lets face it. He was an abomination, one that thought he was in the right and was a threat to everyone around him, he even admits that several times and hes attacked and or murdered people while possesed. Anyone else did that and you would have cut them down without blinking.

Anders represents what happens when you oppress a group of people for a millennia and they decide to rise up and fight for their freedom by any means necessary.  Also, Anders isn't an abomination by the definition of the devs who said it specifically involves demons - he had a symbiotic relationship with a spirit (likely similar to the Rivain seers), and both Anders and Justice fundamentally changed as a result of their symbiosis.

[Fair34]

When Anders did what he did I wanted to strangle the little bastard. Damned radical terrorist. I sided with the mages only because of circle/Bethany.

If you side with the Templars with Bethany in the Circle, does she join you again or will you have to fight her?

[Dangerfoot]

Good god, yes. Anders ruined everything. The revered mother would've been on my side (with the mages) and then he went and killed her and dozens of others instead of -you know- the actual Templars. Horrible decision by a character that I never even liked. Then when I said "Just get out of here" Sebastion flipped out, so that was the last straw. Anders had to die.

[Lord_Valandil]

I haven't found him yet, I'm starting the game.

[LobselVith8]

Dangerfoot wrote...

Good god, yes. Anders ruined everything. The revered mother would've been on my side (with the mages) and then he went and killed her and dozens of others instead of -you know- the actual Templars.

You realize she never sided with the mages once during DA2, right? She was neutral the entire time. Anders wanted to free his people, not see the continuation of their subjugation.

Dangerfoot wrote...

Horrible decision by a character that I never even liked. Then when I said "Just get out of here" Sebastion flipped out, so that was the last straw. Anders had to die.

Sebastian doesn't agree that mages should be free in the first place because he's been raised by the Chantry and follows their teachings, so it's not surprising he would see things from their perspective. I had no problem letting him storm off to Starkhaven while I kept Anders at my side because I think the mages deserve to be free.

[Sonris89]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Sonris89 wrote...

Andres did a dick move, he killed who knows how many people, both sides condemmed him, Fenris and Aveline both said he needed to be punished. Merril said he should help but hell, after she got her whole clan butchered, what kind of good advice could she give? I was fed up with her too.

Merrill didn't get her whole clan butchered. They either kill you because their bigoted idiots who saw her as a "flat ear" or they accept that the Keeper loved her more than she loved the clan.

Furthermore, he destroyed a building that belonged to an organization that enslaved mages across the entire continent. Anders saw his people as slaves to the Chantry and its templars, and he wanted to free them from slavery. How is it a "dick move" to want to emancipate your people from tyranny? Should he have written them a strongly worded letter instead? Anders actions can end up emancipating the mages from slavery. Considering that the Chantry and its military arm basically control the lives of mages, who have no basic rights, can be given a lobotomy where they have no free will, and can tortured and raped, I'm not surprised Anders destroyed the building of an organization that enslaved mages.

Sonris89 wrote...

Merideth was beyond hope of calming, but maybe the templars and citizens of kirkwall were more forgiving up until he murdered the only neutral party left in the city. Couldn't he have bombed the knight commanders office instead? He had contacts and ways into the Gallows.

The point was for mages to rise up and fight for their freedom instead of accepting a system of subjugation.

Sonris89 wrote...

Andres represented everything wrong with mages. Lets face it. He was an abomination, one that thought he was in the right and was a threat to everyone around him, he even admits that several times and hes attacked and or murdered people while possesed. Anyone else did that and you would have cut them down without blinking.

Anders represents what happens when you oppress a group of people for a millennia and they decide to rise up and fight for their freedom by any means necessary.  Also, Anders isn't an abomination by the definition of the devs who said it specifically involves demons - he had a symbiotic relationship with a spirit (likely similar to the Rivain seers), and both Anders and Justice fundamentally changed as a result of their symbiosis.

Eh thats your opinion, great thing about this game, you can look at it alot of different ways. But I think Anders was an abomination. He went beyond justice, even vengence, at a few points he embodied rage and wrath, desire and pride. As was mentionedi n awakening Justice could have easily turned into a demon, the only difference between a demon and spirit are thier values and goals, which can change...

But he killed innocents, where is the justice in that?

And Merril was trying to (perhaps unkowningly) summon a pride demon into the world, which is the most powerful kind of demon. Her clan had every right to throw themselves at her.

But the mages are extremly dangerous. And they really showed it to me in this game. Every apostate I ran into resorted to demons or blood magic more or less.

I felt bad for the oppression but lets not forget they can turn into demon possed monsters, mind controlling blood mages, or just light someone they dont like on fire. Can't exactly evaluate them on real world values. They are people, and living weapons.

Modifié par Sonris89, 12 mars 2011 - 05:59 .

[Xrissie]

Ofcourse I killed him. I'm not going to let a mass murderer live and get away with it.

[LobselVith8]

Sonris89 wrote...

Eh thats your opinion, great thing about this game, you can look at it alot of different ways.

That was the intent of my response, to provide an alternative to the "Anders made a dick move" line of thought you provided.

Sonris89 wrote...

But I think Anders was an abomination. He went beyond justice, even vengence, at a few points he embodied rage and wrath, desire and pride. As was mentionedi n awakening Justice could have easily turned into a demon, the only difference between a demon and spirit are thier values and goals, which can change...

This isn't the correct terminology as defined by the developers of the game, though. It's not an issue of opinion when the creators address that abominations specifically involve demons, not spirits.

Sonris89 wrote...

But he killed innocents, where is the justice in that?

Where's the justice for the mages who were tortured and raped because they were in subjugation to the Chantry and its templars?

Sonris89 wrote...

And Merril was trying to (perhaps unkowningly) summon a pride demon into the world, which is the most powerful kind of demon. Her clan had every right to throw themselves at her.

They had no right to try to murder her and her companions for killing an abomination. What Merrill was trying to do was restore a part of her people's history. Agree or disagree, that was her intent.

Sonris89 wrote...

But the mages are extremly dangerous. And they really showed it to me in this game. Every apostate I ran into resorted to demons or blood magic more or less.

And virtually every templar I ran into confirmed that there can never be peace between the mages and the templars when the mages are enslaved to the Chantry and the Order of Templars.

Sonris89 wrote...

I felt bad for the oppression but lets not forget they can turn into demon possed monsters, mind controlling blood mages, or just light someone they dont like on fire. Can't exactly evaluate them on real world values. They are people, and living weapons.

And the templars can turn mages tranquil and take away their humanity and free will, rape and torture them, and massacre countless men, women, and children with a decree even when the mages of the Circle have done nothing wrong.

[Dangerfoot]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Sonris89 wrote...

But he killed innocents, where is the justice in that?

Where's the justice for the mages who were tortured and raped because they were in subjugation to the Chantry and its templars?

That's not justice. What he did only served as a message, at the cost of innocent lives. He didn't kill anyone that he targetted because he knew they had done terrible things. He killed them all just to make a point. A point he could have made by targetting templars.

He deserved to die. He was just as bad as the corrupt templars, his blind, dogmatic hatred was the same as theirs. There's really no way to look at what he did and call it justified. It was wrong and awful, regardless of whether it may lead to mage freedom.

[LobselVith8]

Dangerfoot wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Where's the justice for the mages who were tortured and raped because they were in subjugation to the Chantry and its templars?

That's not justice. What he did only served as a message, at the cost of innocent lives. He didn't kill anyone that he targetted because he knew they had done terrible things. He killed them all just to make a point. A point he could have made by targetting templars.

Except it's not black and white. Anders isn't a black hat villain. He killed people who were part of an organization that subjugated mages across the entire continent. He killed people who essentially supported the slavery of mages.

Dangerfoot wrote...

He deserved to die. He was just as bad as the corrupt templars, his blind, dogmatic hatred was the same as theirs. There's really no way to look at what he did and call it justified. It was wrong and awful, regardless of whether it may lead to mage freedom.

Anders wanted to free his people from slavery, so I don't think he deserved to die. His actions lead to the freedom of mages across the continent if Hawke sides with the Kirkwall Circle.

[Dangerfoot]

You're relegating the Chantry down to a simple "organization that exists solely to imprison mages". That's not the half of it. The people in that building didn't have to agree with the templar's treatment of mages to be there.

[Queny229]

Yes, i killed him.

Why?

becouse i was Warrior, and in that moment i hated mages. And Orsino i think says i need to choice with i am going to fight for. For the Mages or Templars. I pick to help Templars! Btw if i start again new story i am going to try mages for sure!

[Sonris89]

The Templars were Ander's enemy, he killed innocent people.

Its like nation A is at war with Nation B but its afraid nation C might, MIGHT, not side with it or stall the war so he blows it up. its cowardly and evil. Whos to say how badly his anger corrupted Justice.

Only a matter of time before he is blowing up chantry orphanages to show people how it feels to lose children or something.

Modifié par Sonris89, 12 mars 2011 - 06:52 .

[Merced652]

My character having no stock in religion; i let anders live. The chantry is just as corrupt as an organization as any, those exalted marches, locking away mages, sister patrice...

[eye basher]

Ha i killed anders ass off sided with the templars took out the mage trash got rid off that backstabber orsino and after bethany found out that he knew about the white lily killer and did nothing to stop him she sided with me and i got her back for the last fight.

The order dictates.Down with the mages

[Cancermeat]

I wish that there was a line you could have said "you helped save my sister and now we are even, now get out of my sight!". Even if i wanted him to die i dont think my character would have wanted to kill him on the spot, i would have felt better if he could have a trial and all.

[Fault Girl]

Anders was my hawkes best friend, but after what he did no way. Killed him, it sadden me but what he did was wrong even if the situation was already dire, it just made it worse

[atheelogos]

No I keep him alive. I wasn't going to kill a fellow mage. There is a war coming and I'm going to need all the help I can get. Besides if I killed him all my lady Hawkes would hate me. lol

[atheelogos]

Merced652 wrote...

My character having no stock in religion; i let anders live. The chantry is just as corrupt as an organization as any, those exalted marches, locking away mages, sister patrice...

true

[LobselVith8]

Dangerfoot wrote...

You're relegating the Chantry down to a simple "organization that exists solely to imprison mages". That's not the half of it. The people in that building didn't have to agree with the templar's treatment of mages to be there.

I'm not relegating them simply to that aspect, but it's a fundamental part of their organization for nearly a milennia now. The people in that building were members of an organization that actively enslaved mages across the entire continent of Thedas.

Sonris89 wrote...

The Templars were Ander's enemy, he killed innocent people.

He saw the Chantry as an antagonist. He killed members of the Chantry, an organization that enslaves mages, because he wanted to emancipate his people. Anders line of thinking was: Why should the mages accept simple concessions instead of outright independence? That's why I didn't kill him.

Sonris89 wrote...

Only a matter of time before he is blowing up chantry orphanages to show people how it feels to lose children or something.

You mean he'll turn into Knight-Commander Meredith? Because that's exactly what her decree would have done to every mage man, woman, and child in Kirkwall.