2340 réponses à ce sujet

[Neminea]

Zanallen wrote...

Neminea wrote...

I can live with that, plenty of people made the warden do the sacrifice thing and went through awakening fine.

Nah, they are pulling a ME3 and not allowing dead protagonists to be imported anymore.

But I was kinda hoping that Justice would somehow inhabit my dead protagonists corpse

[LobselVith8]

Monica21 wrote...

No, not technically at all. The revolutionaries were revolutionaries. They weren't even technically revolutionaries, they were secessionists. They didn't want to overthrow a government, they just wanted to rule themselves. They didn't blow up buildings with their own citizens inside. They fought the guys in the red coats. They didn't harm their own people, and the closest they came to harming property was throwing a bunch of tea that no one had bought anyway into a harbor.

Your other examples I can't comment on because I don't know enough about them.

Actually, they were would the definition because of their actions, and there's no general consensus on the definition of 'terrorist.'

Monica21 wrote...

I largely disagree with the term "slave" and I think it's thrown around too loosely. Prisoner would be a much more accurate description. And Cullen thinks templars have divine right because he's an Andrastian. What else is he supposed to think? 

I never said anyone should hate Anders, but I think his methods are simply stupid.

You can disagree with it, but it's the word used by pro-mage Hawke and Anders in reference to the Chantry controlled Circles. It's their opinion, true, but one that even the pro-Chantry members of Hawke's group never once dispute.

As for being stupid, this is Kirkwall. 'Nuff said.

[Xilizhra]

Wulfram wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I think it was more an attempt to inspire via applied force. Which it totally succeeded in doing.

Not inspire, so much as provoke.  His objective was the destruction of the Circle at Chantry hands.

The point was ultimately to show that the templars could be defied.

[LobselVith8]

Zanallen wrote...

But Hawke disappears. So, no, the mages don't have their leader.

 
Leliana can't find Hawke. All that tells me is that he isn't interested in bending knee to the Chantry, and that Leliana (once again) can't do her job.

Zanallen wrote...

And how many allies do you think the mages actually have?

How many allies do the templars have, now that they rebelled from the Chantry?

Zanallen wrote...

Plus, templars are specifically trained to counter and kill mages.

That must explain why the mages successfully liberated every surviving Circle of Magi across Thedas from the Chantry and its Order of Templars.

[Zanallen]

Xilizhra wrote...

The point was ultimately to show that the templars could be defied.

Yes, he destroyed a symbol. Unfortunately, the symbol he chose is also the one that the majority of Thedas worships. So, really, he just made a lot of Andrastians mad and gave them more fuel for the mages are evil bonfires.

[Xilizhra]

Zanallen wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The point was ultimately to show that the templars could be defied.

Yes, he destroyed a symbol. Unfortunately, the symbol he chose is also the one that the majority of Thedas worships. So, really, he just made a lot of Andrastians mad and gave them more fuel for the mages are evil bonfires.

Well, three years later, the mages are still fighting and the templars have gone rogue too. So it didn't work out that badly.

[Wulfram]

Xilizhra wrote...

The point was ultimately to show that the templars could be defied.

The point was to force the Mages to die for their freedom, since Justice was enraged at their refusal to fight.

[Zanallen]

LobselVith8 wrote...

How many allies do the templars have, now that they rebelled from the Chantry?

Not all templars have defected. In fact, the wiki claims that most remain loyal to the Chantry.

That must explain why the mages successfully liberated every surviving Circle of Magi across Thedas from the Chantry and its Order of Templars.

Yes, small forces of templars having to deal with the mages within the tower and those without are no doubt going to be overrun. That doesn't change the fact that templars are specifically trained to track, counter and neutralize mages. It is pretty much their one purpose.

Also, Leliana wasn't sent out to find Hawke. Cassandra was. Leliana was sent to find the Warden who has also disappeared.

[Zanallen]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, three years later, the mages are still fighting and the templars have gone rogue too. So it didn't work out that badly.

We really don't know how its gone, honestly. What do the majority of the people of Thedas think about the mage rebellion? Their world is being rocked to its very foundation.

[LobselVith8]

Zanallen wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

How many allies do the templars have, now that they rebelled from the Chantry?

Not all templars have defected. In fact, the wiki claims that most remain loyal to the Chantry.

Did the wiki cite it's source, or is it an assumption by the fan who wrote the entry?

Zanallen wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

That must explain why the mages successfully liberated every surviving Circle of Magi across Thedas from the Chantry and its Order of Templars.

Yes, small forces of templars having to deal with the mages within the tower and those without are no doubt going to be overrun. That doesn't change the fact that templars are specifically trained to track, counter and neutralize mages. It is pretty much their one purpose.

Also, Leliana wasn't sent out to find Hawke. Cassandra was. Leliana was sent to find the Warden who has also disappeared.

That doesn't change that the very templars you described as being trained to deal with mages failed to prevent the emancipation of all the Circles of Magi across the continent.

Additionally, I don't see how Cassandra (as part of the group Varric describes as leaving the Chantry to hunt the mages) is going to locate a pro-mage, apostate Hawke if he's leading the mages, or why Hawke would even entertain speaking to her in the first place. And I can imagine a pro-mage Warden would feel the same way about the Seeker Leliana.

[Rifneno]

Gah. Don't feed the trolls. They'll never go away. And they smell like something a skunk wouldn't admit to.

[Melca36]

Zanallen wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, three years later, the mages are still fighting and the templars have gone rogue too. So it didn't work out that badly.

We really don't know how its gone, honestly. What do the majority of the people of Thedas think about the mage rebellion? Their world is being rocked to its very foundation.

If you think its going to be mage VS Templar you are way off.......

There will be people who support the mages as they are the primary healers of the world. More people prefer them to the few physicans Thedas has.

There will be people on the mages side

There will be mages fighting blood mages

Some countries in Thedas might even declare themselves mage friendly if the mages agree to help protect their borders.

Its not just going to be Mage VS Templar

[Melca36]

Zanallen wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The point was ultimately to show that the templars could be defied.

Yes, he destroyed a symbol. Unfortunately, the symbol he chose is also the one that the majority of Thedas worships. So, really, he just made a lot of Andrastians mad and gave them more fuel for the mages are evil bonfires.

Not everyone assumes mages are evil.

[Dragoonlordz]

Might have been more content if they replaced the already pointless choices from DA2 to one selection right at end, where lists over 100 ways to kill him with each one playing a different cinematic death sequence.

[Vicious]

I generally kill him, but ironically in the game where I rivalled him, I could not bring myself to kill him that time... He was clearly not in control of himself, at war with Vengeace for control over his body.

[PsychoWARD23]

Killed him my first run. Which was also my canon run. Which was when he was practically Hawke's (and my Warden's (well, besides Alistair)) best friend. 

Modifié par PsychoWARD23, 21 août 2011 - 09:55 .

[Phantom.Brave10]

Actually, the first time I played through, I was still learning to stand on my feet. I was devastated when Bethany died in the deep roads. I nearly cried.

[River22]

 Wow. It's apparent that people have some pretty strong feelings on this, eh?

To post some of my own thoughts now that I have been sucked into reading 40 pages worth of debate:

I always side with the mages. It's just plain wrong for the Templars to abuse their authority like that, and I'm definitely not going to murder a bunch of Circle mages for the actions of an apostate. However, that is not to say that the Templars and the Chantry are pure evil and don't serve an important purpose.

Mages are people, and derserve to be treated as people and given basic human rights. This whole mess was started because the Templars were being dicks and were abusing their power. However, that does not mean mages can be free to go willy nilly doing whatever they want. The way I see mages is that they are people with a gun permanantly attached to them. Owning a gun is a big responsiblity that not everyone is emotionally prepared to handle. A gun however, can be locked away in the armory or in your closet. A mage is always a mage 24/7 for their entire life. Fact of the matter is, even though it's incredibly important the give minorities rights, it's becomes a different story when they can fart fire and lighting out their ****s. 

I beileve more in reforming the Circle than abolishing it, as I beileve the Circle to be necessary. Kirkwall's Circle's oppresive system however, was intolerable, and it had to change. I just highly diagree with Anders' way of doing it. Blowing up a damn church dosen't make good for the argument that mages are sane rational members of society. 

I chose not to kill him the first playthough, and I don't think I'll kill him on my second playthrough (My logic: You made this mess and broke everything. Now these mages are going to get slaughterd thanks to you, you don't get to die ****, you fix the mess you made!). I think I'll kill him on the third playthrough however, just because he really deserves it.

Modifié par River22, 11 septembre 2011 - 06:05 .

[Cobra's_back]

I killed Anders. My character was sick of him. I sided with the mages just because I didn't want to kill all of them. I had no problem getting rid of the nutty ones like Grace.

I thought the game setup Hawke for countless tragedies. Hawke knows saving mages is going to free some dangerous characters but he can't kill all if there are a few innocent ones.

Hopefully the next Hawke story will have Hawke actually saving the day and not unleashing hell. I played legacy and Hawke unleashes another bad guy. Hawke really needs a new direction. All Hawke needs is one good story where he turns things around.

[Gervaise]

I find the decision as to whether or not you kill Anders is almost irrelevant, unless you have Sebastian in your party, as it seems to have little effect on anyone else's attitude to you, including Anders himself.

My first run through I spared him because I went with Merrill's idea that he should make good the damage he had done to the prospects of the Circle Mages. However, because he was on a friend basis, when we had our final discussion, he seemed to think I had done this because I supported him and what he had done - this really annoyed me. The only way I could get through to him the revulsion I had for his bomb was to tell him to get lost - which meant turning loose an unstable person who might come up with an even more murderous scheme in the future. So in subsequent run throughs I tended to go with executing him because it meant he was no longer in a position to damage future mage prospects and it seemed to be what he wanted anyway.
I find it very difficult to rival him without metagaming, which I don't like doing. I have only managed this once, with a Hawke romancing Sebastian, so naturally executed him as tended to look at things the same way as him - which in the case of Anders was at least accurate concerning the RoA.
I gather that if I re-run this and spare him, I can persaude Anders to side with Templars as a way of "Atonement". I don't understand this at all - how does killing the people he condemned to death by his actions qualify as atonement?
To be honest, for me, none of the possible endings for Anders really fits the crime - after the first run through I find it impossible to romance him because I know what he is going to do. There is something about the bomb plot that makes it too close to real life comfortable with it. There is only one instance of a medieval bomb plot that I know of and it didn't end well for the community that was saddled with responsibility for it even though the majority were horrified at what was being done in their name. As for more recent examples.......never a good thing.

[Cobra's_back]

Gervaise
You hit it on the nail. The bombing was too close to real life. Anders was dead meat for me.

[Sinuphro]

Fannlyn wrote...

No.

I kept Anders alive, and ran away with him. Was a mage, sided with mages. The time for negotiations was over. The Chantry promoted slavery in the form of locking up mages because of what they /could/ do. You can't charge someone with a crime before they commit it. And Tranquils? Zomg. Crime against nature much? I liked the leader woman from the Chantry (forget her name, forgive me), but she was an enabler of this situation. A situation that should never have been tolerated to begin with.

Judge me if you will, but I'm sticking to it.

I would like to kill Cullen, Sebastian, Fenris, Meredith, Elthina ,and all the members of the chantry then use blood magic to ressurrect em from the dead then torture them and have their souls remain restless and trapped in a magic gourd lol

[The Xand]

I wish Anders had manned up and told me what he was going to do the Chantry so I could have helped him.

Anders: "Dude, you up for totalling the Chantry?"
Me: "Aye man, right behind ye"

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

The Xand wrote...

I wish Anders had manned up and told me what he was going to do the Chantry so I could have helped him.

Anders: "Dude, you up for totalling the Chantry?"
Me: "Aye man, right behind ye"

I would have encouraged him to expand his horizons and just nuke Kirkwall, and be done with it.

[The Xand]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

I would have encouraged him to expand his horizons and just nuke Kirkwall, and be done with it.

Would have saved those idiots Orsino and Meredith from getting angry and hulking out. For no real reason in Orsino's case :'(

Modifié par The Xand, 11 septembre 2011 - 08:19 .