2340 réponses à ce sujet

[Bims110]

I killed him without too much thought, as I felt it was honestly the only reasonable option. He basically became a terrorist, killed hundreds of innocent people and helped demonstrate to everyone the danger of mages, which seemed kind of contrary to his cause.

He also killed the grand cleric, who was pretty much the only person who was actually trying to resolve the situation in a non-violent manner.

This was on my good play though, but after seeing what he did, and how he abused my trust, I wanted to see him suffer, so I was pretty let down that all he got was a quick knife to the back. I was hoping to set him on fire and then cut his throat or something.

I ended up siding with the mages, as I agree with his point that they should be free and held accountable for their actions, and not their potential actions. But there is never any justifiable excuse for outright murdering innocent people to make a point

[Hellosanta]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Anders was freeing his people who were enslaved to the Chantry, and his attack was on members of an organization that enslave mages. Your comparison absolutely fails when you take this into account.

Chantry is like a church in Thedas. It's not just organization that is made only to enslave mage. Knight-commendar and templars are the one that is much responsible about enslaving mage. Because Chantry is a church, we can pretty much assume not only sister/brother, normal citizens can be there anythime. This means .. Anders probably kills a lot of innocents by blowing up the bulding of chantry. If he just killed or assassinated sister/brother/templars and even grand cleric, I wouldn't be so upset about what he had done.  

[LobselVith8]

cglasgow wrote...

"Terrorism" is not defined by intent; it is utterly irrelevant to intent. It is defined by method. And so I executed Anders.

Technically, nobody agrees on the legal definition of terrorism; it's why agencies and legal definitions don't always match up. Considering Anders wanted the emancipation of the mages, one could easily consider him an abolitionist who was willing to do anything to see his people freed from slavery.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Bims110 wrote...

This was on my good play though, but after seeing what he did, and how he abused my trust, I wanted to see him suffer, so I was pretty let down that all he got was a quick knife to the back. I was hoping to set him on fire and then cut his throat or something.

If I'd had the power and freedom to, I wouldn't have killed him. I would have kept him in a tiny box for the rest of his life. Poetic justice for a man so afraid of being caged. I'd also keep him somewhere hidden, where he wasn't being made an example, just so he wouldn't have the satisfaction of being a martyr.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 13 mars 2011 - 01:44 .

[cglasgow]

You overlook the fact that while not all the attempts to define it match, virtually all of the attempts to define it focus on methods, not objectives.

'If you do X, you are a terrorist'. That different people have different values of X does not change the base principle; terrorists are defined by "how", not "why".

If Anders had wanted to blow up templars, hey, great.   Even nice-guy templars who might get caught in the blast radius; they joined a military organization, that's a risk they volunteered for.

But nuking the local church building and all the nuns inside it?   Yeah, I don't care if I agree with the politics; politics doesn't justify murdering innocent people.

Modifié par cglasgow, 13 mars 2011 - 01:46 .

[Lord Orgasmatron]

I killed him ... and I think he deserved it. What he did was stupid and irrational and I just ... he completely confirmed the people's fear that mages are dangerous ... congratulations Anders, you failed at your own task

[shnellegaming]

I killed him and will continue to kill him on every play through, even if I romance him. Sorry I liked the Grand Cleric. I agree she should have stepped in and had a more active role but the mass murder of innocents is something I don't agree with. Personally I'm pissed I don't get the choice to make him tranquil myself for what he did cause he tricked us and if you are in a romance in some situations broke your heart.

I'm sad we don't get a chance to heal him and Justice. I loved them both in Awakenings. I was really surprised they didn't give us a route to heal him. The side quests for Justice in Awakenings had him "envying" the loving relationship of his dead host marriage. I mean that's a perfect setup for turning him from Vengeance back to Justice.


Side Note:  The Chantry blowing up was an awesome effect/scene though.

Modifié par shnellegaming, 13 mars 2011 - 01:50 .

[Longhorncurt]

i really wanted to but i realized that i would be soooooo ****ed without a healer.....

[Conway044]

Mass murdering abomination that wrecked the Hanged Man with his magic of mass destruction. Yeah I killed him, where is Hawke supposed to drink with Varric and Bella?

I liked the companion conversation between Anders and Bella that foreshadowed the bombing. That was nice.

[LobselVith8]

cglasgow wrote...

You overlook the fact that while not all the attempts to define it match, virtually all of the attempts to define it focus on methods, not objectives.

'If you do X, you are a terrorist'. That different people have different values of X does not change the base principle; terrorists are defined by "how", not "why".

If Anders had wanted to blow up templars, hey, great.   Even nice-guy templars who might get caught in the blast radius; they joined a military organization, that's a risk they volunteered for.

But nuking the local church building and all the nuns inside it?   Yeah, I don't care if I agree with the politics; politics doesn't justify murdering innocent people.

Destroying a building that houses the leader of an organization involved in nearly a millennia of slavery is a very different thing, though.

[Longhorncurt]

this reminds me of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, it was almost the same concept. drastic measures kinda thing

[Dangerfoot]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Technically, nobody agrees on the legal definition of terrorism; it's why agencies and legal definitions don't always match up. Considering Anders wanted the emancipation of the mages, one could easily consider him an abolitionist who was willing to do anything to see his people freed from slavery.

The reason I feel he's like a terrorist is that he is operating in a way that a terrorist would. He's choosing collateral damage rather than straight-forward engagement. He's shaking their resolve by hurting their people, not their soldiers. He's trying to put fear in them. His actions make me think of the IRA and other similar groups.

I mean I get why he's doing it, and if you heard the stories behind some terrorist groups you might understand why they did it, but that doesn't make the awful things they're doing any less real. There are still victims and victims' families, and so I didn't feel right sparing him. He still won in the end, his message was out and he would be a martyr, but my character was very focussed on honor and I couldn't let him live after that. I only wish I could have killed him honorably, although stabbing him in the back did have a bit of poetic justice to it.

[Hellosanta]

Longhorncurt wrote...

this reminds me of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, it was almost the same concept. drastic measures kinda thing

Now that I think of ... that's not too bad then. 
Well, I think, as Hawke, we don't really get to experience the life of mages in circle, so it's hard to grasp the big hatred they have for templars and chantry.
In terms of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, ... I'm Korean and Japan pretty much enslaved our country during that time. Most Korean still have very negative feeling towards Japan because of what they had done during WWI and WWII.
There is no black and white, really, it seems. I should try siding with mages and Anders. 

[jomonoe]

I needed Anders and his healing and even with Seb threatening to raze Kirkwall to the ground, I still hope that he can be reasoned with.

[Wowlock]

Why every important person had to die just so Hawke can become a champion ?

I sided with mages , killed Anders for lying to me , dooming Kirkwall to a slaughter , acting like all-knowing and saying '' there can be no peace '' ............

I hate to see to kill every important person you see though. Orsino turned into a Harvester ? Meredith become a lyrium crazed b*tch after we discover that artifact ? Viscount killed by Arhisok ? Not to mention the S.O.B mage that killed your mother in his crazy experiment.....Dalish keeper imprisoning the demon just so naive Merrill can be saved and then we have to slaughter all the clan.....

I can handle emotional but this was flat out tragedy and depression. Only good thing that I remember happened was Aveline's personal story and finding out that we have a cousin ( after loosing many family members.... ) .

I just hope they won't go this overboard with the next game.... sure putting whole world into a brink of war is a huge deal but killing anyone you know is not a good way to do it....

And I was playing a virtous champion ...I dare not to think about a ruthless Hawke...

Well at least in the cliffhanger we see something big is going on and ''suprisingly '' Hawke and the Warden went missing....they better have a good explanation for this ...at least Merrill is still with Hawke and Leliana is not with the Warden ( which is kinda annoying )

Ok I am ending my rant here...Overall it was a great game to play. I think it match with the quality of DA:O in many sense.

[OmegaBlue0231]

Hell yeah, I still sided with the mages but he had to go down. I felt bad for him but it was a choice I had to make, even Anders wanted you to kill Anders.

While he does deserve to die I think he's one of those people history will vindicate.

[Sjofn]

shnellegaming wrote...The side quests for Justice in Awakenings had him "envying" the loving relationship of his dead host marriage. I mean that's a perfect setup for turning him from Vengeance back to Justice.

More like that was a perfect set up to explain how he turned into a demon, whether Justice and Anders would admit it or not.

[cglasgow]

In terms of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, they'd be considered war crimes today. The only reason WWII strategic bombing was tolerated was because it was technologically impossible to go after factories or military bases (and Hiroshima and Nagasaki had major amounts of both) without also hitting the surrounding city; and that was with conventional weapons. Ever since laser-guided bombs were invented, the 'acceptable' amount of sacrifice in aerial bombing was a helluva lot lower, for the simple reason that there was no now excuse for burning an entire city to hit an army base, when you could just hit the base.

And of course this is entirely irrelevant to the Anders consideration, as he set the blast radius and placed that bomb by hand; it went exactly where he intended it to, and burned as much as he intended it to. Its not like he couldn't have just put a lightning bolt into the Grand Cleric's face if he only wanted to kill her; no, he deliberately aimed to take out everyone.

[Augustei]

Yeah I killed him, His actions were utterly stupid.. The city was already devistated from the Qunari attack a few years back and then he goes and pulls a dick move like that. I mean those people were innocents and he went and broke all neutrality.. I killed him as soon as I saw that Explosion. He was an idiot

[Silver]

Lord Orgasmatron wrote...

I killed him ... and I think he deserved it. What he did was stupid and irrational and I just ... he completely confirmed the people's fear that mages are dangerous ... congratulations Anders, you failed at your own task

THIS. totally.

[phoenixds24]

I was really annoyed with the whole thing at the end. He suddenly blows up the chantry and kills the Grand Cleric, who was one of the most even-keeled people in the game, and his only reasoning is that if she were alive, a compromise might be reached, but he doesn't want one. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here thinking that a middle-ground approach is best, and everyone is insisting I now have to massacre people simply because they're mages, or support a mass-murdering terrorist... Who happens to be my only frickin' healer...

I sooooo wanted to kill Anders, but knew I'd be screwed gameplay wise. I was hoping there would be an option to say that I'd let him live to help defend the mages and execute him afterwards for his crimes, but no, that would be too smart, I suppose. However, since I'm now doing a mage playthrough, I can safely kill that bastard and not worry about it.

[RelentlessRob]

I killed him, didn't want to loose Sebastian still sided with mages because of sister, if I hadn't downloaded exiled prince it may of been different.
Bro or sis are totally going to be grey wardens next time though.

[NeoGuardian86]

I was gonna let Anders live, then Sabastian said **** no, and that he'd go back to Starkhaven and raise an army to raise Kirkwall.


sorry Anders, i will not let your actions proceed to further endanger the people Kirkwall anymore then what you'd done.

[NeoGuardian86]

btw for people arguing about what defines Terrorism.

Terrorism as defined by the FBI is as follows.

"The unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a Government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

[Bims110]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
]If I'd had the power and freedom to, I wouldn't have killed him. I would have kept him in a tiny box for the rest of his life. Poetic justice for a man so afraid of being caged. I'd also keep him somewhere hidden, where he wasn't being made an example, just so he wouldn't have the satisfaction of being a martyr.

When he brought up the martyrdom thing before I killed him, I was really hoping for an option where I could say that I would do everything in my power to erase his name from history.

I like your box idea, I think it would be suitable punishment.