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Did anyone else kill Anders?


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#1951
Plaintiff

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

But that point also disappears once I realized that she doesn't place Nyssa under protection detail after her escaped husband -- who is believed to have become mentally unstable by Nyssa -- contacted her, when Aveline will have heard everything Nyssa said on the matter.

Aveline will have only heard anything about if you happen to bring her along on the quest. So any blame to be placed on her is only within the context of your individual gaming experience.

But I think it's an extreme stretch, even then. If every crime-related quest was dramatically altered by Aveline's presence, the game script would be substantially longer and the player would never actually get to do anything.

Escaped/rogue mages like Huon are under templar jurisdiction, anyway. As incompetent and vile as the templars might be , Aveline and the guard would still not be looked on kindly for stepping in to do their work. And let's not forget, the guard are not qualified to face even regular mages, let alone blood mages. All Aveline would likely accomplish is the slaughter of her own men, and Nyssa's life would not be saved regardless.

#1952
Lazy Jer

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hussey 92 wrote...

no, I was on the mages side


I was on the mages side to, but I did bump off Anders.  Bumping off Anders doesn't make you anti-mage.

Dabrikishaw wrote...
No, I only ever sided with the Chantry/Templars once, for the trophy. I fully support Anders destryoing the Chantry in Kirkwall.


You can't side with the Chantry in-game.  Once Anders blows the thing up Meredith is acting entirely of her own accord and without Chantry approval.  It's important to note the difference between an ordinary reasonably minded Knight-Commander and Meredith.

In Dragon Age:Origins the Fereldan Circle of Magi is overrun by demons.  Real ones that everyone can see, not just the imaginary ones that Meredith doesn't see but still thinks are there.  Knight Commander Greagoir locks the Circle up and holds his possition until word can get back to him regarding the Rite of Annulment.  This was a real-life demonic invasion with real life demons eating people and you know what?  He still waited.

Meredith saw the Chantry blown up by Anders, a mage with no connection to the Kirkwall Circle and uses it as justification for a Rite of Annulment that she'd already called for anyway, under the guise representing the people's interests.  Which is, of course, bull.  She had her own agenda.

My point is you can't blame the Chantry as a whole for the actions of Kirkwall.  You can blame the players involved, but Meredith was working outside the system.

#1953
TEWR

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Plaintiff wrote...

Aveline will have only heard anything about if you happen to bring her along on the quest. So any blame to be placed on her is only within the context of your individual gaming experience.


Was I claiming that she was always informed? I was not. I was merely claiming that when she is informed on playthroughs where she is present -- which should've gone without saying -- she doesn't do the prudent action.

Meaning placing Nyssa under protective custody until Huon is apprehended, given Huon's statement to Nyssa that he would return for her. Given that she's afraid of him and that Hawke can offer to protect her, it should've been done.

Had the criteria been met -- Aveline being present, Nyssa relays her fear of Huon now, and Hawke says the diplomatic line.

Whether Nyssa lives or dies is irrelevant to what should've been done by a Captain of the Guard (and personally, I'm not saying she should've lived. Just that actions should've been done in an effort to try to keep her alive).



Plaintiff wrote...

Escaped/rogue mages like Huon are under templar jurisdiction, anyway. As incompetent and vile as the templars might be , Aveline and the guard would still not be looked on kindly for stepping in to do their work. And let's not forget, the guard are not qualified to face even regular mages, let alone blood mages. All Aveline would likely accomplish is the slaughter of her own men, and Nyssa's life would not be saved regardless.


When the Templars don't do their jobs, the authority to protect the city from the dangers magic and demons pose becomes Aveline's responsibility, whether she wants it or not.

If the Templars won't do their job to protect the populus from magic, she will. Her job is to protect the city's inhabitants as well. Is it her expertise? No. But she does concern herself with it, evident if you bring her to your talks with Meredith to begin the quest.

She even tries to requisition a few Templars that would answer to her -- even if they weren't officially her people, they would be people she had command over -- to better combat the rogue mages.

Her job is to enforce the law. Not be picky about who gets protected under it. If a few Guardsmen die protecting Nyssa, at least they died protecting Nyssa as is their job. Which then shows the Elven community that the City Guard will try to protect them in matters that even they aren't experienced at but the Templars are.

As a result, Meredith's authority might weaken further. But Aveline doesn't care about Meredith's authority, making no secret of how Meredith cannot be in the Viscount's palace forever and we know she isn't afraid to confront the Templars.

Protecting the Elven community, even if a couple guards die in the process and an Elf dies with them, goes to increase Aveline's standing amongst them. More then likely not from every Elf there, but from a fair to substantial chunk of the Alienage's denizens.
 
And she makes it clear in banter with Sebastian -- in the DLC MotA IIRC -- that she enjoys protecting people. But I'd rather see it then hear it, in sufficient quantity.



Plaintiff wrote...

But I think it's an extreme stretch, even then. If every crime-related quest was dramatically altered by Aveline's presence, the game script would be substantially longer and the player would never actually get to do anything.


And as for this, I never said -- or even implied -- that Nyssa should survive or that Aveline automatically grants NPCs an immunity to the horrors of death by her presence.

That's a strawman. I think. I made this post when I was exhausted, so eh.

Taking action =/= action is always successful.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 juin 2012 - 05:03 .


#1954
DPSSOC

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Every time. Regardless of how any of my particular Hawkes feel about Anders position there is one action that secures his death in every playthrough, Ella. The situation with Ella, seeing how quickly and easily Justice changes targets, solidified it in my mind that Anders can`t, under any circumstances, be allowed to live. Because next time Hawke might not be there to stop him, and it might not just be one innocent girl who makes the mistake of being terrified of him. Anders, for all his noble intentions, is a time bomb, and worse he can go off more than once. Sorry son but we gotta put Yeller down.

#1955
Cantina

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No. I NEVER kill Anders. I'm a huge mage supporter and I felt what Anders did had to be done. I despise the Chantry and The Templars they can all crawl in a hole and die.

#1956
Dave of Canada

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I've probably said this five times in this thread alone but whenever it's bumped, I feel necessary to say that yes, I've stabbed Anders. Repeatedly. Never have I not stabbed him.

#1957
Lazy Jer

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DPSSOC wrote...

Every time. Regardless of how any of my particular Hawkes feel about Anders position there is one action that secures his death in every playthrough, Ella. The situation with Ella, seeing how quickly and easily Justice changes targets, solidified it in my mind that Anders can`t, under any circumstances, be allowed to live. Because next time Hawke might not be there to stop him, and it might not just be one innocent girl who makes the mistake of being terrified of him. Anders, for all his noble intentions, is a time bomb, and worse he can go off more than once. Sorry son but we gotta put Yeller down.


That is a very good point and one I rarely see brought up.  If you don't play your cards right a woman who has not connection to the Chantry and for which there is no possible justification for bumping off, gets bumped off.

#1958
Guest_Alexa__*

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I never killed Anders, because I think he was right.

Even if I thought he was wrong, I wouldn't kill him, because then I wouldn't be better than he was. Two wrong actions don't amount to one good.

Modifié par Alexa_, 06 juin 2012 - 05:51 .


#1959
Ryzaki

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Yes I kill Anders in most of my games. Either that or it's highly implied that he later kills himself. He's too dangerous to let live. Rabid dogs need to be put down as the saying goes.

#1960
Plaintiff

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Lazy Jer wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Every time. Regardless of how any of my particular Hawkes feel about Anders position there is one action that secures his death in every playthrough, Ella. The situation with Ella, seeing how quickly and easily Justice changes targets, solidified it in my mind that Anders can`t, under any circumstances, be allowed to live. Because next time Hawke might not be there to stop him, and it might not just be one innocent girl who makes the mistake of being terrified of him. Anders, for all his noble intentions, is a time bomb, and worse he can go off more than once. Sorry son but we gotta put Yeller down.


That is a very good point and one I rarely see brought up.  If you don't play your cards right a woman who has not connection to the Chantry and for which there is no possible justification for bumping off, gets bumped off.

Oh please. Ella was a twit. Even if Anders sprouted horns and spat flames, he saved her from a magic lobotomy and gangrape. If she can't tell that he's a good guy, she deserves to die anyway for being so mind-numbingly stupid, not to mention ungrateful.

She probably needs to be reminded to breathe.

#1961
Wrathion

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Plaintiff wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Every time. Regardless of how any of my particular Hawkes feel about Anders position there is one action that secures his death in every playthrough, Ella. The situation with Ella, seeing how quickly and easily Justice changes targets, solidified it in my mind that Anders can`t, under any circumstances, be allowed to live. Because next time Hawke might not be there to stop him, and it might not just be one innocent girl who makes the mistake of being terrified of him. Anders, for all his noble intentions, is a time bomb, and worse he can go off more than once. Sorry son but we gotta put Yeller down.


That is a very good point and one I rarely see brought up.  If you don't play your cards right a woman who has not connection to the Chantry and for which there is no possible justification for bumping off, gets bumped off.

Oh please. Ella was a twit. Even if Anders sprouted horns and spat flames, he saved her from a magic lobotomy and gangrape. If she can't tell that he's a good guy, she deserves to die anyway for being so mind-numbingly stupid, not to mention ungrateful.

She probably needs to be reminded to breathe.


She was already terrified before Hawke and Anders even showed up. She not going to fall down to her knees in praise at this freaky, glowing, old man that, in the process of murdering some templars, saved her life.  You think she's never seen an abomination before? Just as likely to kill her as any Templar. She has every right to be scared of him.
Ungrateful how? She thanks you after you exit the tunnel.

#1962
robertthebard

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Plaintiff wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Every time. Regardless of how any of my particular Hawkes feel about Anders position there is one action that secures his death in every playthrough, Ella. The situation with Ella, seeing how quickly and easily Justice changes targets, solidified it in my mind that Anders can`t, under any circumstances, be allowed to live. Because next time Hawke might not be there to stop him, and it might not just be one innocent girl who makes the mistake of being terrified of him. Anders, for all his noble intentions, is a time bomb, and worse he can go off more than once. Sorry son but we gotta put Yeller down.


That is a very good point and one I rarely see brought up.  If you don't play your cards right a woman who has not connection to the Chantry and for which there is no possible justification for bumping off, gets bumped off.

Oh please. Ella was a twit. Even if Anders sprouted horns and spat flames, he saved her from a magic lobotomy and gangrape. If she can't tell that he's a good guy, she deserves to die anyway for being so mind-numbingly stupid, not to mention ungrateful.

She probably needs to be reminded to breathe.

She saw him in his true form, an abomination, and called him such, and for that, he can, and might kill her too.  So yeah," hey, you know, you should be grateful that I didn't let the Templars kill you so I could" really doesn't carry a lot of weight.Posted Image

Modifié par robertthebard, 06 juin 2012 - 12:36 .


#1963
Plaintiff

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Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Every time. Regardless of how any of my particular Hawkes feel about Anders position there is one action that secures his death in every playthrough, Ella. The situation with Ella, seeing how quickly and easily Justice changes targets, solidified it in my mind that Anders can`t, under any circumstances, be allowed to live. Because next time Hawke might not be there to stop him, and it might not just be one innocent girl who makes the mistake of being terrified of him. Anders, for all his noble intentions, is a time bomb, and worse he can go off more than once. Sorry son but we gotta put Yeller down.


That is a very good point and one I rarely see brought up.  If you don't play your cards right a woman who has not connection to the Chantry and for which there is no possible justification for bumping off, gets bumped off.

Oh please. Ella was a twit. Even if Anders sprouted horns and spat flames, he saved her from a magic lobotomy and gangrape. If she can't tell that he's a good guy, she deserves to die anyway for being so mind-numbingly stupid, not to mention ungrateful.

She probably needs to be reminded to breathe.


She was already terrified before Hawke and Anders even showed up. She not going to fall down to her knees in praise at this freaky, glowing, old man that, in the process of murdering some templars, saved her life.  You think she's never seen an abomination before? Just as likely to kill her as any Templar. She has every right to be scared of him.
Ungrateful how? She thanks you after you exit the tunnel.

I doubt very much that she's seen an abomination that looks anything like Anders. In case you hadn't noticed, they generally look like their skin was turned inside out, not to mention the deformity of their limbs.

But Ander's eyes glow and suddenly he's a demon?

The fact that people recognize Anders as an abomination when he looks absolutely nothing like one is a massive discrepancy. They're just leaping to conclusions.

#1964
Urzon

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Plaintiff wrote...

I doubt very much that she's seen an abomination that looks anything like Anders. In case you hadn't noticed, they generally look like their skin was turned inside out, not to mention the deformity of their limbs.

But Ander's eyes glow and suddenly he's a demon?

The fact that people recognize Anders as an abomination when he looks absolutely nothing like one is a massive discrepancy. They're just leaping to conclusions.


Glowing magical cracks along his skin...

Glowing eyes....

Crazed speak...

Talking in an echoed voice that obviously doesn't belong to a single being...

The whole "I'm going to kill you, traitor!" speech...

What was she suppose to think? Magical medical condition? Circle mages know the signs of a spiritual possession. They have to learn to deal with them in the Circles. Kirkwall mages even more so, since the whole city sits on a razor thing/ nonexistent Veil.

#1965
WotanAnubis

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I usually don't kill Anders because I want a Healer in my party and Bethany doesn't quite cut it.

This is not a good reason to keep Anders alive for someone like me who prefers to roleplay their decision rather than min/max them, but there you have it. Anders' unique healing powers tend to keep him alive.

#1966
Dwarva

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I've only ever killed Anders once - in my pure Templar playthrough. But with adding Sebastian into the game I'm finding it harder because I really love his character. So the thought of him buggering off back to Starkhaven if I don't kill Anders does make me pause.

I wish you could convince Sebastian to stay in Kirkwall... I read an EPIC fanfic where he changed his mind towards Anders and stopped wanting revenge and it made a lot of sense...

#1967
Lazy Jer

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Plaintiff wrote...

Oh please. Ella was a twit. Even if Anders sprouted horns and spat flames, he saved her from a magic lobotomy and gangrape. If she can't tell that he's a good guy, she deserves to die anyway for being so mind-numbingly stupid, not to mention ungrateful.

She probably needs to be reminded to breathe.


Well by that same rational Anders was too stupid to not keep justice in his pants long enough to avoid killing someone.  Plus Ella wasn't that stupid.  I'd be one thing if it was just Hawke and co. busting in to stab templars and chew bubble gum.  It's another thing entirely to see Anders go all yellow and crackly with a deep supernaturally altered voice.  What was she supposed to do, hug him?  Bake him a pie?  Good spirits only possess living bodies in certain rare circumstances (Justice and Wynn's pen-pal are the only ones that come to mind.)  Demons possess someone roughly any chance they get?  So when you see Anders glow and talk like the demon in the exocist, what conclusion do you draw, that it's just James Earl Jones before he's had is coffee?

#1968
zapphoman24

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I killed Anders...

When I first played it, I helped him because I didn't think it was going to be involved in the main mission. Then it happened and I felt so betrayed and angry because I really liked the lady who was in the building that was destroyed (sorry forgot her name. She was a main part of Sebastians story). She was the only neutral party and could of possibly stopped the conflict but nope. Anders killed her so I killed him. Then sided with the mages because it wasn't their fault. Even though it doesn't matter anyway because you have to kill both sides anyway.

#1969
DPSSOC

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Plaintiff wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Every time. Regardless of how any of my particular Hawkes feel about Anders position there is one action that secures his death in every playthrough, Ella. The situation with Ella, seeing how quickly and easily Justice changes targets, solidified it in my mind that Anders can`t, under any circumstances, be allowed to live. Because next time Hawke might not be there to stop him, and it might not just be one innocent girl who makes the mistake of being terrified of him. Anders, for all his noble intentions, is a time bomb, and worse he can go off more than once. Sorry son but we gotta put Yeller down.


That is a very good point and one I rarely see brought up.  If you don't play your cards right a woman who has not connection to the Chantry and for which there is no possible justification for bumping off, gets bumped off.

Oh please. Ella was a twit. Even if Anders sprouted horns and spat flames, he saved her from a magic lobotomy and gangrape. If she can't tell that he's a good guy, she deserves to die anyway for being so mind-numbingly stupid, not to mention ungrateful.

She probably needs to be reminded to breathe.


You're surrounded by a pack of wolves and you're pretty sure they mean to kill you, a grizzly suddenly bursts from the bush and kills all the wolves, are you any less terrified of the bear?

Yes Anders saved her life but he also just magically ripped apart a squad of Templars and is quite obviously not human, what options does that leave?

Plaintiff wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...
She was already terrified before Hawke and Anders even showed up. She not going to fall down to her knees in praise at this freaky, glowing, old man that, in the process of murdering some templars, saved her life. You think she's never seen an abomination before? Just as likely to kill her as any Templar. She has every right to be scared of him.
Ungrateful how? She thanks you after you exit the tunnel.


I doubt very much that she's seen an abomination that looks anything like Anders. In case you hadn't noticed, they generally look like their skin was turned inside out, not to mention the deformity of their limbs.

But Ander's eyes glow and suddenly he's a demon?

The fact that people recognize Anders as an abomination when he looks absolutely nothing like one is a massive discrepancy. They're just leaping to conclusions.


What other options are there? He's obviously not human whatever his appearance, so what else could she have thought he was? It's an accepted truth that benevolent (if one can use that word) spirits do not covet our world as demons do and as such do not possess people. Again Anders is magical, not human, and literally bursting with fury, what conclusion are people expected to draw?

#1970
TEWR

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Plaintiff wrote...

Oh please. Ella was a twit. Even if Anders sprouted horns and spat flames, he saved her from a magic lobotomy and gangrape. If she can't tell that he's a good guy, she deserves to die anyway for being so mind-numbingly stupid, not to mention ungrateful.

She probably needs to be reminded to breathe.


That.... has to be one of the oddest statements I've read. The man has glowing eyes, glowing skin, proclaims that every Templar will die in a booming and echoing voice, and Maker knows what else.

The fact of the matter is that the logical assumption to make is that the man is an Abomination. If an Abomination -- let's say, a Pride one -- just destroyed an entire Templar squadron with the same motives as Alrik, you're not going to thank the damn thing.

You're going to be afraid of it, because despite the fact that it killed people that were going to abuse you, you have no ****ing clue what its motives are and what it will do to you. A Pride Abomination would vow to kill the Templars just as much as Justice/Vengeance would.

She's erring on the side of caution by assuming what she's seeing before her is in fact an Abomination. And, well, Anders is an Abomination (technically speaking).

An Abomination is defined as any Fade spirit -- usually a Demon, but Spirits apply as well -- that has possessed a living Mage. Anders is an Abomination... and one that is desperately trying to keep himself from becoming one with no sense of self anymore.

That Anders may have saved her from one situation does not in any way, shape, or form guarantee that this new situation is any better.



Plaintiff wrote...

But Ander's eyes glow and suddenly he's a demon?


More or less, considering Mages can sense shifts in the Veil and disturbances with the Fade. Anders being fused with Justice has him carrying around a literal piece of the Fade inside of him.

So... yeah.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 juin 2012 - 02:15 .


#1971
dragonflight288

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I think it needs be pointed out that not every abomination is ugly and look like they're inside-out and deformed. Many abominations try posing as humans, like Uldred (although he didn't try very hard, he still looked like Uldred) the desire demon, Kitty, and Amalia, should we allow the girl to be possessed, the demons who possessed the templars thanks to Tehrone.

#1972
robertthebard

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Plaintiff wrote...
I doubt very much that she's seen an abomination that looks anything like Anders. In case you hadn't noticed, they generally look like their skin was turned inside out, not to mention the deformity of their limbs.

But Ander's eyes glow and suddenly he's a demon?

The fact that people recognize Anders as an abomination when he looks absolutely nothing like one is a massive discrepancy. They're just leaping to conclusions.

What's her line?  Isn't it something along the lines of "Get away from me, Demon"?  When you ask Bethany if Keran is possessed, she tells you "Sorry, I didn't learn much about demons" roughly paraphrased, and it's likely that, until coming to Kirkwall, she'd never seen one either.

However, Desire Demons don't look much like their skin was turned inside out.  But to roughly paraphrase Morrigan:  "So what is an abomination, are they always insane horrors, and if not, when is it true or not"?  Very roughly.  Of course, we can also look at Wynne's situation, where she considers herself an abomination, and she's been in the Circle a considerable amount of time.  Of course we know that Justice, according to Anders, no longer exists, that after they merged, they became one, and it's more Vengence than Justice now, right?  If we take one possible outcome of Wynne's discussion, and apply it to Anders, at the time that Ella sees Anders, he truly is an abomination, since he's an insane horror, and may well kill her.  Since the only definition we have of abomination is an insane horror that kills people, where is the inconsistency of her definition?

#1973
Alessa

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Plaintiff wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Every time. Regardless of how any of my particular Hawkes feel about Anders position there is one action that secures his death in every playthrough, Ella. The situation with Ella, seeing how quickly and easily Justice changes targets, solidified it in my mind that Anders can`t, under any circumstances, be allowed to live. Because next time Hawke might not be there to stop him, and it might not just be one innocent girl who makes the mistake of being terrified of him. Anders, for all his noble intentions, is a time bomb, and worse he can go off more than once. Sorry son but we gotta put Yeller down.


That is a very good point and one I rarely see brought up.  If you don't play your cards right a woman who has not connection to the Chantry and for which there is no possible justification for bumping off, gets bumped off.


Oh please. Ella was a twit. Even if Anders sprouted horns and spat flames, he saved her from a magic lobotomy and gangrape. If she can't tell that he's a good guy, she deserves to die anyway for being so mind-numbingly stupid, not to mention ungrateful.

She probably needs to be reminded to breathe.




That's my opinion, too. ;)

Well, I wouldn't say she deserves to die for being too unhinged to grasp that the glowing man, standing in front of her, is not going to hurt her.

But one would think, she realizes that he poses no threat to her, because she only just watched that glowing man kill the Templars, who were menacing her.

Does she think, he did it just to kill her afterwards? :blink:

If I was in Justice's position I would have been annoyed at her reaction, too. <_<

Modifié par Alessa-00, 07 juin 2012 - 03:51 .


#1974
robertthebard

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Alessa-00 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Every time. Regardless of how any of my particular Hawkes feel about Anders position there is one action that secures his death in every playthrough, Ella. The situation with Ella, seeing how quickly and easily Justice changes targets, solidified it in my mind that Anders can`t, under any circumstances, be allowed to live. Because next time Hawke might not be there to stop him, and it might not just be one innocent girl who makes the mistake of being terrified of him. Anders, for all his noble intentions, is a time bomb, and worse he can go off more than once. Sorry son but we gotta put Yeller down.


That is a very good point and one I rarely see brought up.  If you don't play your cards right a woman who has not connection to the Chantry and for which there is no possible justification for bumping off, gets bumped off.


Oh please. Ella was a twit. Even if Anders sprouted horns and spat flames, he saved her from a magic lobotomy and gangrape. If she can't tell that he's a good guy, she deserves to die anyway for being so mind-numbingly stupid, not to mention ungrateful.

She probably needs to be reminded to breathe.




That's my opinion, too. ;)

Well, I wouldn't say she deserves to die for being too unhinged to grasp that the glowing man, standing in front of her, is not going to hurt her.

But one would think, she realizes that he poses no threat to her, because she only just watched that glowing man kill the Templars, who were menacing her.

Does she think, he did it just to kill her afterwards? :blink:

If I was in Justice's position I would have been annoyed at her reaction, too. <_<


Who then nearly kills, or does kill her.  How is she unjustified in her reaction?  She is one of the few mages that doesn't turn into an abomination herself when cornered.  It's likely that she hasn't had much experience with demons, or abominations up until Anders, and frankly, that's a close to a Pride Demon as you can get w/out actually being one.

#1975
Merlex

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Plaintiff wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Every time. Regardless of how any of my particular Hawkes feel about Anders position there is one action that secures his death in every playthrough, Ella. The situation with Ella, seeing how quickly and easily Justice changes targets, solidified it in my mind that Anders can`t, under any circumstances, be allowed to live. Because next time Hawke might not be there to stop him, and it might not just be one innocent girl who makes the mistake of being terrified of him. Anders, for all his noble intentions, is a time bomb, and worse he can go off more than once. Sorry son but we gotta put Yeller down.


That is a very good point and one I rarely see brought up.  If you don't play your cards right a woman who has not connection to the Chantry and for which there is no possible justification for bumping off, gets bumped off.

Oh please. Ella was a twit. Even if Anders sprouted horns and spat flames, he saved her from a magic lobotomy and gangrape. If she can't tell that he's a good guy, she deserves to die anyway for being so mind-numbingly stupid, not to mention ungrateful.

She probably needs to be reminded to breathe.


So being young, fearful and stupid is deserving of death. Sounds like a Magister to me. Typical arrogant Mage bs.