76 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Elessara wrote...

That's not a continuity error. Even if you don't play a dalish warden, Duncan was still there, they still found the mirror, Duncan still destroyed it. I think whoever *would* have been the dalish warden died though and Tamlen still disappears.

no in witch hunt Ariane or whoever the elf was says that one got very sick( the DE) and another vanished (Tamlen). The Keeper still temporarily healed the DE, but I find it hard to believe that Duncan would've just let someone who survived the taint like the DE did not become a Grey Warden, and that he could've been in two (or in this case, 6 if we count all origin stories) places at once.

So I'm pretty sure that would constitute a continuity error, or at the very least faulty banter that makes no sense in regards to the story.

[Lithuasil]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


no in witch hunt Ariane or whoever the elf was says that one got very sick( the DE) and another vanished (Tamlen). The Keeper still temporarily healed the DE, but I find it hard to believe that Duncan would've just let someone who survived the taint like the DE did not become a Grey Warden, and that he could've been in two (or in this case, 6 if we count all origin stories) places at once.

So I'm pretty sure that would constitute a continuity error, or at the very least faulty banter that makes no sense in regards to the story.

You are not to question Liam Neeson. If he wants to be in different places at once, he can, as long as he dies a heroes death throughout the course of the plot. It's his thing.

Also, am I the only one who didn't have anyone turn on me in the fade?

[Vukodlak]

Wintermist wrote...

I remember they say that if you die in the fade you will no longer be a mage. But Merril did die in there and she was certainly still a mage. Thoughts on this?

She didn't die in the fade, how often does she get knocked out in combat and not die.

Elessara wrote...
That's not a continuity error. Even if
you don't play a dalish warden, Duncan was still there, they still found
the mirror, Duncan still destroyed it. I think whoever *would* have
been the dalish warden died though and Tamlen still disappears.

If you don't play as the Dalish Warden, they still found the mirror and it was still destoryed but its never said Duncan did it. Even if he did maybe the non-pc dalish didn't survive the sickness long enough to be recruited. Picking the origin means Duncan was in the right place at the right time to save you from trouble. Because he was there when you needed him most he wasn't there for anyone else.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
no in witch hunt Ariane or
whoever the elf was says that one got very sick( the DE) and another
vanished (Tamlen). The Keeper still temporarily healed the DE, but I
find it hard to believe that Duncan would've just let someone who
survived the taint like the DE did not become a Grey Warden, and that he
could've been in two (or in this case, 6 if we count all origin
stories) places at once.

So I'm pretty sure that would constitute
a continuity error, or at the very least faulty banter that makes no
sense in regards to the story.

Ariane wasn't actually present she's remembering a story second hand and as I recall she mentions the sick elf died.

Modifié par Vukodlak, 17 mars 2011 - 08:22 .

[ReplicantZero]

Was pretty pissed off with Merrill after she turned. Because she was the only one who did, assumed that she was basically a weak, untrustworthy character. Nice to know that it's simply down to the party combination you take.

[Andros_Hanarak]

If I am not mistaken the Keeper means Feynriel, since she is sending you and your party to his mind. What I understood is that if he died he would become tranquil. If you or your party members die you are simply taken out of his mind in the fade. Take this as a grain of salt since its what I thought she meant.

[RazorrX]

They do not really die do they? I mean they take like 1/2 or more damage and go Poof.

Feyniel I personally make sure is dead (every time). I really wanted to let him live but then he starts talking about going to Tevinter to train and I figure we do not need another Tevinter Dreamer, so ...

[Damotta]

 I think it depends on who's corner of the fade you were in? We were in the boys dream state corner of the fade not Merril's so Merril was more of a passenger and had no lasting effects other than the scummy feeling of turning on Hawke.

[Clonedzero]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I've got a better one. A continuity error I believe.

Merrill will say in banter to Anders, in non Dalish Elf Warden imports, that she met Duncan.

that should be enough for you guys to have it sink in.

Duncan was friends with the keeper of the clan. he visited before that. its why he was in the area when the dalish warden got sick.

[*Kioux*]

Just a thought about the original post - the Keeper points out that Feynriel is a rare kind of mage and that he has the ability to influence the dreams and thus the fade directly. So - I'll just consider it his doing or his influence that keep them from becoming tranquil or dead - especially since it was his main fear.
Argue if you must but I like my explanation.

[Nimander]

Having re-played it a second time on my second character, she pretty much only talks about Feynriel. So, I'm happy with 'we're in his dreams, so killing HIM does this. If we were in Merril's dreams, killing her would Tranquil her.'

[TEWR]

Lithuasil wrote...



You are not to question Liam Neeson. If he wants to be in different places at once, he can, as long as he dies a heroes death throughout the course of the plot. It's his thing.

Also, am I the only one who didn't have anyone turn on me in the fade?

I'm confused as to what Liam Neeson has to do with that. Made me laugh though.

Vukodlak wrote....

Ariane wasn't actually present she's remembering a story second hand and as I recall she mentions the sick elf died.

Yea I know she wasn't actually there. I was just saying that's what she said to reinforce the idea that the DE died and Duncan wasn't confirmed to be there. If he was, it would make no sense for him to have not recruited the DE because he was sick from the taint.

Clonedzero wrote....
Duncan was friends with the keeper of the clan. he visited before that. its why he was in the area when the dalish warden got sick.

just because he visited before that does not mean that Merrill met Duncan, because Merrill didn't even know Duncan or about him before the DE Origin. And she couldn't have met Duncan if Duncan was at Teyrn Cousland's castle, or Orzammar, or the Circle of Magi, or Denerim

[Ahriman Dragonhand]

Nimander wrote...

Having re-played it a second time on my second character, she pretty much only talks about Feynriel. So, I'm happy with 'we're in his dreams, so killing HIM does this. If we were in Merril's dreams, killing her would Tranquil her.'

This. I just did this quest again in my current playthrough and the Keeper says "he" would become a tranquil if he died while in the dream. Nothing about them mages in general. So I guess it's a thing specific to this kind of mage.

[Lithuasil]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...



You are not to question Liam Neeson. If he wants to be in different places at once, he can, as long as he dies a heroes death throughout the course of the plot. It's his thing.

Also, am I the only one who didn't have anyone turn on me in the fade?

I'm confused as to what Liam Neeson has to do with that. Made me laugh though.

Go back and look at Duncan again. He looks like Liam Neeson, acts like Liam Neeson and dies like Liam Neeson. If this was a movie he'd be played by Liam Neeson, and if Duncan was just a tiny little bit more like Liam Neeson, Bioware would get sued by Oscar Schindler. And Qui gon Jin. And Priest Vallon.

[TEWR]

well shave my backside and call me an elf! He does kinda look like Liam Neeson!

[Evil Asch]

I want Merril tranquil.

[Piperman]

Couldn't the other elf have just died during the joining. Also I like to think that duncan went to all those places and just doesn't find anyone until he meets your warden who is at the last place he goes to, if that makes sense?

[Megaton_Hope]

cglasgow wrote...

No matter what? Even if they are at full friendship with you?

Haven't tested that yet.  I had Merrill at fairly high friendship at that point, but not full.   Isabela I've only heard about on spoiler threads.

Yes, Isabella will betray you no matter what. She really wants that ship.

She doesn't have a halfway decent explanation for why that trumped years of friendship and sexytime, but whatever.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

So far I've managed to kill Anders, Merrill, Isabella, Fenris and, Avaline on this quest, all at max friendship (multiple play throughs). Anders means at first accepting Topor's deal, then reneging and killing him later, the rest simply try to accept the demon's offer, though it would be nice if killing the companion mages in there actually did make them tranquil (and thus you could re spec them as another class.)

It doesn't so, I blame Justice for keeping Anders from tranquility and, blood magic for Merrill - we all no blood magic does things to your mind. The rest never were mages, so no big deal, they just wake up with one of those annoying post fade death hangovers

[Blacklash93]

I doubt that banter with Merrill was supposed to be spoken if you didn't do the Dalish Origin. Probably an oversight or bug we can take as non-canon.

As for the Fade I don't think it's actually said that you kill them. We could have just knocked them out for all we know.

[Megaton_Hope]

Piperman wrote...

Couldn't the other elf have just died during the joining. Also I like to think that duncan went to all those places and just doesn't find anyone until he meets your warden who is at the last place he goes to, if that makes sense?

Erm, the way I understand things, Duncan's presence in these different locations at the particular time he arrives is a matter, literally, of life and death for the different characters.

The Dwarf Commoner, for example, "just stops eating one day" in the Carta prison.
The Dwarf Noble is exiled to the Deep Roads, and dies fighting Darkspawn. (Gorim is rescued or escapes, and makes his way cross-country to Denerim.)
The Human Noble is slaughtered in his/her home by Arl Howe, possibly in a last effort to defend his/her parents.
The Mage is, in all likelihood, executed by the Templars or sent to Aeonar for helping a blood mage destroy his phylactery and escape.
The Dalish Elf suffers the Taint, and without the Wardens close at hand to offer the Joining, dies.
The City Elf slaughters his/her way through the Arl of Denerim's estate during the elven rebellion, and then is executed, because that is frowned upon.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Merril flat out says that you are the first human she's met when you first encounter her, if you don't have a Dalish Origin import, so I think t hat is a bug or a plot hole.

[TEWR]

Merril flat out says that you are the first human she's met when you first encounter her, if you don't have a Dalish Origin import, so I think t hat is a bug or a plot hole.

Even in non-DE imports, she says that she met Duncan in banter with Anders.

honestly, I find it not believable that Duncan doesn't gain certain recruits. Take the Dwarf Commoner origin. How does Beraht die if the Dwarf Commoner didn't break out? Beraht ruled through fear and intimidation, and the only people that could stand a chance against him were the DC and Jarvia.

And Jarvia was fiercely loyal to Beraht, as well as intimate.

Additionally, the Dwarf Noble dying doesn't make sense either if you're a Dwarf Commoner. Duncan arrived in Orzammar to gain a recruit as well as attend the feast in the Dwarf Noble's honor/move through the Deep Roads on a Warden mission.

Duncan leaves immediately after witnessing the Dwarf Commoner's triumph in the Proving and defeating Beraht? Makes no sense, because that happens one day prior to the Dwarf Noble's feast. It's also very bad for his relations with Orzammar. So I don't buy it all.

The Dwarf Noble would've been exiled and found the Wardens traveling alongside the Dwarf Commoner

[Sajuro]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Merril flat out says that you are the first human she's met when you first encounter her, if you don't have a Dalish Origin import, so I think t hat is a bug or a plot hole.

Even in non-DE imports, she says that she met Duncan in banter with Anders.

honestly, I find it not believable that Duncan doesn't gain certain recruits. Take the Dwarf Commoner origin. How does Beraht die if the Dwarf Commoner didn't break out? Beraht ruled through fear and intimidation, and the only people that could stand a chance against him were the DC and Jarvia.

And Jarvia was fiercely loyal to Beraht, as well as intimate.

Additionally, the Dwarf Noble dying doesn't make sense either if you're a Dwarf Commoner. Duncan arrived in Orzammar to gain a recruit as well as attend the feast in the Dwarf Noble's honor/move through the Deep Roads on a Warden mission.

Duncan leaves immediately after witnessing the Dwarf Commoner's triumph in the Proving and defeating Beraht? Makes no sense, because that happens one day prior to the Dwarf Noble's feast. It's also very bad for his relations with Orzammar. So I don't buy it all.

The Dwarf Noble would've been exiled and found the Wardens traveling alongside the Dwarf Commoner

I guess once he picks up a recruit Warden tradition dictates he leaves?

[Megaton_Hope]

Sajuro wrote...

I guess once he picks up a recruit Warden tradition dictates he leaves?

I think that it's more accurate to say that because he picked up a recruit Warden somewhere else, he wasn't there to pick one up everywhere he might have. The waveform collapsed, precluding his being in superposition any longer.

[Annie_Dear]

Holy necro-thread Batman!