139 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Arkay]

You know what really grinds my gears.


no genlocks. for being the most numerous of darkspawn it seems odd that there are none, especially considering we know they still exist as Anders mentions them.

So.. where are the damn genlocks!?

I'm never buying a bioware game ever again.

[Mauross]

Korusus wrote...

Mauross wrote...
  The EXACT same flood of negativity afflicted DA:O when it first came out.

That's not entirely true.  I'm not one to quote review numbers because I think they're generally biased anyway...but come on...  Dragon Age: Origins has its fair share of problems, but I don't remember major reviewers giving it 8's and 7's, let alone 6.5's.

I mean when even Game Informer ,the mainstreamiest, dumbdowniest, pro-consolized reviewer in the business, says you've gone too far... then there's a problem.

DA2 is a good solid 7.  Not bad.  But not BioWare.

hey i never wrote that! ¬¬ the guy quoting me did.

[RohanD]

craigdolphin wrote...

Weird. I've been a regular forumite since before ME1 was launched so I recall the DA:O launch quite well. And, yes, there was some complaining: as there always is. But this is rather markedly different in intensity and volume, IMO. I think Bioware have misjudged the depth of feeling this time around, and I think those who 'like' the wholesale changes to DA2 are being a bit too quick to dismiss it as well.

Change is not inherantly bad. But too much, and especially the wrong kind, can actually push people past a threshold beyond which tolerance is hard to find. Bioware has benefitted for many years from a loyal group of fans on the PC platform. I'm wondering whether DA2 will mark a watershed event where a significant fraction of that group will fall out of love with Bioware. And that will have repercussions in the years to come, even if it doesn't dent the sales figures for DA2 itself. Recall that many of those longtime customers were the targets of the early-preorder-deadline marketing campaign. I'm not convinced that those people who currently feel burned will be as forgiving in the future.

Bioware seems not to care about alienating those people: and that's a cluster-fu(dge) of epic proportions, IMO. I'm not convinced that the COD/MOH/Halo gamers that Bioware is lusting after will actually make up the difference in the long run. Those folks care mostly about multiplayer and are extraodinarily critical of level design etc. And they don't seem to give a rip about story: Bioware's major strength (historically speaking).

Moreover, that attitude gives other developers a chance at gaining the attention of fans that were once transfixed by Bioware's every tidbit and crumb of information. For example, CD Project Red seems to epitomize the anthithesis of the 'new' Bioware: anti-DRM, gorgeous graphics, dark and gritty storylines, unafraid of nudity/sex, ... and their PR is clearly not slick marketing-speak drivel like we got for DA2: it's the devs talking about the game and being human and excited about having the chance to do so. Those guys are going to be licking their chops at Bioware shrugging in apparent unconcern while their long time customers start walking away with anger and resentment in their hearts.

So, yeah. We'll see. But this feels very different to me than previous releases. It feels like Bioware is burning some bridges, and they may find that to be a matter of regret in the future.

You win, many, many interwebs. 

[Faust1979]

why cant we all just get along?

Modifié par Faust1979, 12 mars 2011 - 06:31 .

[MachDelta]

Why do you fanboys feel the need to come on here and defend it so much? So you like it. Great, go and play it.

 
Same reason that people who think it's trash come on here and slam it. If they really hate it so much they would just leave and get a refund. But at the end of the day people on both sides are up in arms because they're passionate about the game and franchise.

the locking out of that
guy from his games

-->He was temp banned from his EA account and couldn't download or authenticate. His mistake was not installing the game before he started running his mouth off. I don't feel sorry for him at all.

the SecuROM lie

-->As far as I heard it was just some registry entries, which might be leftovers from when it was removed. Haven't seen any proof one way or another, so until someone finds an executable or a hook, or a dev comes out and confirms it, everything is hearsay.

the console auto attack lie

--> One of the devs explained that it's exclusion was a mistake. The wrong build was sent to master. Happens. Hopefully it will be patched in.

the day 1 DLC

--> Exactly like DA:O. And lots of other modern games.

the reused maps/locations

--> Also nothing new in gaming, Bioware just did a poor job of hiding it by not editing the minimaps.

Not saying they're all bad points, but some of them aren't so black and white.

I just don't see any
reason for those people to come on here and defend the game.

Why wouldn't we? When people enjoy something they tend to defend it. Attacking the things people like is tantamount to an attack on them. People generally defend themselves when attacked, no?


There's no grand conspiracy here among the fans. The vitrol and hyperbole is running rampant through these forums, so yeah it can get a little touchy at times. That's generally to be expected after a game's launch though. Eventually things will calm down and people will come around (either way) or move on. All will be well agan.

Modifié par MachDelta, 12 mars 2011 - 06:34 .

[Dorian the Monk of Sune]

corebit wrote...

Complaints back then were just as valid then as are the complaints now.

DA:O did not live up to Bioware's "spiritual successor" line, but it was still a very good game in it's own right.
The Baldur's Gate series was Bioware's masterpiece. The BG series belong in the RPG Hall of Fame. It was a mistake for Bioware to call DAO a successor, not the players' fault, because it created stupidly high expectations.

Good post KOTOR lowered the bar from BG and DA:O did the limbo. Most still liked it but the bar was still low. DA 2 had to be a bounce back game for me. 

[Supreme-Jim]

Eh, it'll probably all die down in a few weeks...

I don't understand complainers. I understand constructive criticism, but complaining is pointless and immature.

You are all hereby awarded the status of Chef, go bake me a pie #@$%es.

[Medhia Nox]

And you would never dare do anything "pointless and immature" I bet Supreme-Jim.

[Morning808]

night0205 wrote...

I agree. Expectations rule people's lives. Which is why I have absolutely zero towards Dragon Age 2... also because you knew from the very beginning it wasn't going to be like Origins. I mean who didn't see this coming? Raise your hand!

Finally someone who thinks like me

[RohanD]

MachDelta wrote...

Why do you fanboys feel the need to come on here and defend it so much? So you like it. Great, go and play it.

 
Same reason that people who think it's trash come on here and slam it. If they really hate it so much they would just leave and get a refund. But at the end of the day people on both sides are up in arms because they're passionate about the game and franchise.

I'm not going to respond to any of the rest of your quote, because you clearly like to believe every single thing that you read, but this one I have to address.

Leave and get a refund? How is that possible once they open the game, install it and play it, then realize it is not what they were told it was going to be and is riddled with bugs?

You are the very definition of a fanboy. You take true, mistakes, errors and failings and JUSTIFY them. You are the kind of customer every corporation loves, you just take their crap and keep on shelling out money for it. You also DEFEND it. 

Wow. 

[tekraa]

Read part way through page 2 and wanted to post in this thread. The problem with complaining openly or even making constructive criticism of a game on its own forum is that the fans (fanboys) who hold it in such high regard don't look upon the situation objectively. Instead of looking at people's complaints and opinions, which they are entitled to, and entirely valid in some cases, they jump on them yelling "Troll, moron", and cause incessant bickering back and forth, they act as if the very statement that something might be wrong with the game, or the developing process, is an affront to THEM.

Objectively, there is a lot that was done right with this game, but as stated, from a AAA developer there is a lot done WRONG when you come to expect such high quality work out of the dev team behind it, reputation preceding on such works of art as BG2, NWN, and DA:O (even with its inherent flaws an inability to live up to its better cousins).

Fortunately, even if the dev team is on hiatus, it IS bioware, and they have shown in the past that they do care about their games, which means even if the fanboys jump to defend DA2 in all its glory as if I insulted their mothers, the voices of the dissatisfied have been, and will continue to be heard. Whether it will change something remains to be seen, but to say "Stop complaining it doesn't matter" or "It won't change anything", is very flawed thinking.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." Nothing was ever accomplished by sitting complacent. I think a lot of the "alienated community" can appreciate this quote tonight.

[Byth]

RohanD wrote...

MachDelta wrote...

Why do you fanboys feel the need to come on here and defend it so much? So you like it. Great, go and play it.

 
Same reason that people who think it's trash come on here and slam it. If they really hate it so much they would just leave and get a refund. But at the end of the day people on both sides are up in arms because they're passionate about the game and franchise.

I'm not going to respond to any of the rest of your quote, because you clearly like to believe every single thing that you read, but this one I have to address.

Leave and get a refund? How is that possible once they open the game, install it and play it, then realize it is not what they were told it was going to be and is riddled with bugs?

You are the very definition of a fanboy. You take true, mistakes, errors and failings and JUSTIFY them. You are the kind of customer every corporation loves, you just take their crap and keep on shelling out money for it. You also DEFEND it. 

Wow. 

So calling a game good and looking past flaws makes you a fanboy? Your post makes you sound like you're attacking someone for liking a game. I bet if we all looked for flaws in every game we'd have tons of reasons to hate games.

[Pandaman102]

Drasill wrote...

and everyone complained about how it didn't live up to the hype of being the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, it was dumbed down, and consolized? I guess we have to wait until Dragon Age 3 gets announced to put DA2 on the ol' pedastel.

The expectations for a spiritual successor with a nine year gap is considerably different from the expectations of a direct sequel one year later. The nostalgia and change in technology made the griping inevitable in the former, memory's very fresh and the technology's similar enough that a 1-to-1 comparison can still be made in the latter.

DA2 is a decent game but has flaws, I can guarantee that absolutely nobody is going to put the repeated maps on a pedestal when DA3 comes out...

[adafuns]

RohanD wrote...

MachDelta wrote...

Why do you fanboys feel the need to come on here and defend it so much? So you like it. Great, go and play it.

 
Same reason that people who think it's trash come on here and slam it. If they really hate it so much they would just leave and get a refund. But at the end of the day people on both sides are up in arms because they're passionate about the game and franchise.

I'm not going to respond to any of the rest of your quote, because you clearly like to believe every single thing that you read, but this one I have to address.

Leave and get a refund? How is that possible once they open the game, install it and play it, then realize it is not what they were told it was going to be and is riddled with bugs?

You are the very definition of a fanboy. You take true, mistakes, errors and failings and JUSTIFY them. You are the kind of customer every corporation loves, you just take their crap and keep on shelling out money for it. You also DEFEND it. 

Wow. 

Obviously he's talking from a console point of view, unless theres something I do not know about (dont own any of the new consoles). As for believing everything you hear, the same can be applied to you (unless you can back that up with evidence, then the point goes to you I guess).

He may be a fanboy, but you're a hater on a bandwagon. One who hates the game which is fine, but when someone comes with a differing opinion, and tries to defend their opinion you blow a load. Earlier you were complaining about why people feel the need to defend thier love of the game, why do you feel the need to defend your hate? You didnt even try to comment on this issue which was in the quote.

Ohh and for the record I'm not a fanboy, especialy since I havent baught the game yet. For all I know I might hate it or love it, could go either way. I'm just tired of people contradicting themselves and resorting to logical fallacies instead of real points. Ive yet to see a real arguement against this game supported with evidence aside from the possible rehashing of scenery (debatable, since all games do this without fail including the bioware games of old, yes you heard me). Bugs are in all games, and you should be wise enough to know already to wait for the fix, so jumping the gun and buying it on the first day is your fault. Not being told how the game was going to be? Unless I'm missing something (entirely possible) bioware was upfront with everyone on the style of gameplay, so there shouldnt have been any surprises and I have yet to hear a complaint from someone who did not like the game that I did not previously already knew was to be included in the game before hand.

But Ive learned a valuable lesson here, one who is looking to purchase a bioware game, the bioware forums is the last place to go for real information on a bioware game. Funny I know, but history repeats itself with fanboy/hater reaction to previous bioware games and as always the true mark of quality in a game is the test of time, not the knee jerk reaction of disillusioned fanboys or elitist self entitled haters within the first month of a games release.

Long rant, not necessarily aimed at the one I quote mind you, just that this whole event was a load of laughs. To conclude if you hate the game and bioware because of it **** it and move on, ignore the rabid fanbase. If you like the game and bioware because of it then **** it and move on, ignore the rabid fanbase (because the haters are still fanboys, just fanboys of old tis all).

After all, its all just video games.
Peace out.

[adafuns]

tekraa wrote...

Read part way through page 2 and wanted to post in this thread. The problem with complaining openly or even making constructive criticism of a game on its own forum is that the fans (fanboys) who hold it in such high regard don't look upon the situation objectively. Instead of looking at people's complaints and opinions, which they are entitled to, and entirely valid in some cases, they jump on them yelling "Troll, moron", and cause incessant bickering back and forth, they act as if the very statement that something might be wrong with the game, or the developing process, is an affront to THEM.
.

Always keep in mind that the very same arguement can be said for those in oposition to this game who view this game as different to what they were used to in the days of old and feel a false sense of entitlement as they jump the gun by calling people with good points to argue a "fanboy", then cause incessant bickering back and forth as if the very statements made in favor of the game is a affront to THEMSELVES and their views. This is also not being objective at all.

[AlanC9]

RohanD wrote...
Leave and get a refund? How is that possible once they open the game, install it and play it, then realize it is not what they were told it was going to be and is riddled with bugs?

How is the game not what people were told it was going to be? All the design changes I've read complaints about were told to us long ago.

[RohanD]

adafuns wrote...

Obviously he's talking from a console point of view, unless theres something I do not know about (dont own any of the new consoles). As for believing everything you hear, the same can be applied to you (unless you can back that up with evidence, then the point goes to you I guess).

He may be a fanboy, but you're a hater on a bandwagon. One who hates the game which is fine, but when someone comes with a differing opinion, and tries to defend their opinion you blow a load. Earlier you were complaining about why people feel the need to defend thier love of the game, why do you feel the need to defend your hate? You didnt even try to comment on this issue which was in the quote.

Ohh and for the record I'm not a fanboy, especialy since I havent baught the game yet. For all I know I might hate it or love it, could go either way. I'm just tired of people contradicting themselves and resorting to logical fallacies instead of real points. Ive yet to see a real arguement against this game supported with evidence aside from the possible rehashing of scenery (debatable, since all games do this without fail including the bioware games of old, yes you heard me). Bugs are in all games, and you should be wise enough to know already to wait for the fix, so jumping the gun and buying it on the first day is your fault. Not being told how the game was going to be? Unless I'm missing something (entirely possible) bioware was upfront with everyone on the style of gameplay, so there shouldnt have been any surprises and I have yet to hear a complaint from someone who did not like the game that I did not previously already knew was to be included in the game before hand.

But Ive learned a valuable lesson here, one who is looking to purchase a bioware game, the bioware forums is the last place to go for real information on a bioware game. Funny I know, but history repeats itself with fanboy/hater reaction to previous bioware games and as always the true mark of quality in a game is the test of time, not the knee jerk reaction of disillusioned fanboys or elitist self entitled haters within the first month of a games release.

Long rant, not necessarily aimed at the one I quote mind you, just that this whole event was a load of laughs. To conclude if you hate the game and bioware because of it **** it and move on, ignore the rabid fanbase. If you like the game and bioware because of it then **** it and move on, ignore the rabid fanbase (because the haters are still fanboys, just fanboys of old tis all).

After all, its all just video games.
Peace out.

First off, I am not on any bandwagon. Saying this implies that I do not think for myself, and I am following some else's lead. This is completely and totally incorrect. My opinions and thoughts are my own and have been this way since I heard about the game. 

Look seriously, the fact that Bioware, a first class studio, being published by EA, has to go on to Eurogamer and answer questions 3 days after release defending their title is evidence enough for its mediocrity. 

so jumping the gun and buying it on the first day is your fault

 

You realize that what you are saying here is tantamount to saying "Bioware has the right to rip people off, making them pay for a product which is buggy and not up to standard"

If you think that, then sorry, you're defending people who don't do their job properly and sell broken products to people at the same price as ones that work. That's just a bs attitude to have. 

[TwistedComplex]

In 5 months Bioware will be the "gods of RPG" again

And EA will be praised for "getting better"

People never change and gamers are the most fickle group of people i've ever seen

"SCREW BIOWARE, SCREW EA, IM DONE!.... after i buy ME3, SWTOR and Battlefield 3 BUT AFTER THAT IM DONE"

Modifié par TwistedComplex, 12 mars 2011 - 08:07 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Faust1979 wrote...

why cant we all just get along?

Because people like arguing, it makes them feel all superior like.

[Darth Postal]

People should learn by now that BioWare NEVER makes the same game twice.

They are not IW/TA with their annual "CoD: The Mexican Soap Opera for Guys" games.

And that's exactly why I love BioWare.

[RohanD]

AlanC9 wrote...

RohanD wrote...
Leave and get a refund? How is that possible once they open the game, install it and play it, then realize it is not what they were told it was going to be and is riddled with bugs?

How is the game not what people were told it was going to be? All the design changes I've read complaints about were told to us long ago.

Please realize that a majority of the gaming public do not follow game developer forums, constantly read the latest news and suscribe to RSS feeds about Dragon Age 2. 

Further on from this, the main crux of this argument is that Bioware said the game would play almost identical to Origins on the PC. They said this from the beginning and Laidlaw, unbelievably, has the audacity to go onto Eurogamer and still spit this nonsense.

It does NOT play like Origins. It is very different, and many, many people agree with this. This is why so many people are angry. If you take a look outside of the Bioware forums, you'll see that the hate for the game is pretty much everywhere. 

[tekraa]

adafuns wrote...

Always keep in mind that the very same arguement can be said for those in oposition to this game who view this game as different to what they were used to in the days of old and feel a false sense of entitlement as they jump the gun by calling people with good points to argue a "fanboy", then cause incessant bickering back and forth as if the very statements made in favor of the game is a affront to THEMSELVES and their views. This is also not being objective at all.

I am aware that haters will step into the supportive discussion threads and troll the discussion, however, if the fanboys would stop jumping into every hate thread that spawns as if affronted the threads would die off.  The hate will go away in a few weeks, and all that will remain are a few trolls, and the happy little fanboys that see absolutely nothing wrong with the game, and those of us whom love crpgs, loved DA:O, will sit back lurking and waiting for the goods, maybe a glimpse of things to come, and will deep down, despite our outrage at how streamlined this game was, will still hope that bioware will release an rpg that will redeem themself.  Let's face it, there are only a few developers out there now who can manage a decent, deep, single player RPG, and Bioware ranked in the top three of those until this fiasco.

[Handsome Hank]

Honestly, I don't understand it. Bioware games have never been terribly intricate to begin with. Now Black Isle games, that's a different story. Anyway, here's hoping Skyrim isn't dumbed down too much.

[Kasumimi]

**Post from guy with no registered games who "Joined: 2011-03-12" criticizing Bioware and making "valid points"**

Seriously this forum has been 95% trolling and 5% logical discussion since the game was released. I am in awe that people keep on replying and hate each other over something like this.

[Pandaman102]

Darth Postal wrote...

People should learn by now that BioWare NEVER makes the same game twice.

They are not IW/TA with their annual "CoD: The Mexican Soap Opera for Guys" games.

And that's exactly why I love BioWare.

Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2?

I'm not dismissing your point, I agree that since BG2 they haven't made the same game twice... but to be fair Mass Effect 2 was the only other sequel they made in the past decade. It's reasonable to expect "Bioware Game X" to be different and possibly more innovative than "Bioware Game Y", but when "Bioware Game Z2" comes out there's some expectations that it won't be radically different from Z1.

After all, prior to DA2 there was a 50/50 chance that Bioware would stick to the BG formula and make incremental changes and innovations that stay true to the core design rather than go with the ME2 format of redesigning almost everything.