139 réponses à ce sujet

[tekraa]

Kasumimi wrote...

**Post from guy with no registered games who "Joined: 2011-03-12" criticizing Bioware and making "valid points"**

Seriously this forum has been 95% trolling and 5% logical discussion since the game was released. I am in awe that people keep on replying and hate each other over something like this.

This is exactly what I am talking about, you realize these people registered to make a statement to the company that devloped the game, right? Not to you as a player, these people want their opinion heard by the company because they are DISSAPOINTED.  You will have your trolls, but seeing as 95% of the posts are all by different people of varying degrees of disatisfaction and different points and dislikes, I would lean toward them not being TROLLS, and being PEOPLE WITH OPINIONS. 

You can't return the game once its opened, so there is only a handful of ways to voice your disatisfaction, since the gaming industry works under different rules than any other form of commerce.

1.  Voice your opinion on the forum
2. Email Bioware
3. Email EA
4. User reviews and product reviews

I am sure most of these "trolls" have taken the time to do at least 2/4 of these items.  This again gets back to the "NONE OF THEM HAVE GAMES REGISTERED", well, neither do I, because I don't care to, I joined the forums so my voice could be heard, I don't need a badge next to my profile picture to prove my points, child.

Modifié par tekraa, 12 mars 2011 - 08:30 .

[Rafe34]

DA2 was honestly the most disappointing Bioware game I've played- and I've played Neverwinter Nights for crying out loud. Which I will probably go back and replay.

I like the companions. I like the new combat system.

I dislike... everything else.

*Minor Spoiler*The story was chopped off- first off, weren't we told it took place over 10 years on the advertisements? I only counted 7. I think they rushed it.

The graphics were- and I need to re-install DA:O to confirm, worse than DAO. At the very least there was little to no improvement.

There were several things with the companion's quests that just made no sense. What happened with Isabela, for example.

And the ending was just... it felt like I was all getting ready for an awesome new part of the adventure, away from cities, and then... boom. That's it?

Does anything even change if I have a DA:O save file? Another question I have- give them the benefit of the doubt on this one, I guess, *Minor Spoiler*but I met a couple people that had both died/could die in DA:O.

Whatever. Now I want to re-install DAO to play that.

[Darth Postal]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Darth Postal wrote...

People should learn by now that BioWare NEVER makes the same game twice.

They are not IW/TA with their annual "CoD: The Mexican Soap Opera for Guys" games.

And that's exactly why I love BioWare.

Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2?

I'm not dismissing your point, I agree that since BG2 they haven't made the same game twice... but to be fair Mass Effect 2 was the only other sequel they made in the past decade. It's reasonable to expect "Bioware Game X" to be different and possibly more innovative than "Bioware Game Y", but when "Bioware Game Z2" comes out there's some expectations that it won't be radically different from Z1.

After all, prior to DA2 there was a 50/50 chance that Bioware would stick to the BG formula and make incremental changes and innovations that stay true to the core design rather than go with the ME2 format of redesigning almost everything.

Right when they announsed DA2 they said that there will be no origins stories, qunary wiil get horns, main character will only be human and everyone will call you Hawke... and you still expected that DA2 will only have "incremental changes"? :happy:

[tekraa]

Darth Postal wrote...

Right when they announsed DA2 they said that there will be no origins stories, qunary wiil get horns, main character will only be human and everyone will call you Hawke... and you still expected that DA2 will only have "incremental changes"? :happy:

If that was all they changed, it would have been incremental.

[BucharestBro]

If the game is so good why are you on the forums instead of exploring Kirkwall?

[Darth Postal]

BucharestBro wrote...


If the game is so good why are you on the forums instead of exploring Kirkwall?

It's morning here. I just woke up. 

Yesterday I had almost 10 hours long marathon of DA2 and I surely plan to do that again today. Just took some time to voice my appreciation of the game.

[klinesmoker]

Korusus wrote...

Mauross wrote...
  The EXACT same flood of negativity afflicted DA:O when it first came out.

That's not entirely true.  I'm not one to quote review numbers because I think they're generally biased anyway...but come on...  Dragon Age: Origins has its fair share of problems, but I don't remember major reviewers giving it 8's and 7's, let alone 6.5's.

I mean when even Game Informer ,the mainstreamiest, dumbdowniest, pro-consolized reviewer in the business, says you've gone too far... then there's a problem.

DA2 is a good solid 7.  Not bad.  But not BioWare.

I can't help but note that you just stated that the worst reviewing source in the industry to you suddenly is validated because of it's negative review?

Get real and form a real argument. You cannot bend things and attempt to form something solid out of your own negative bias when it supports your verbal nonsense.

[BucharestBro]

Darth Postal wrote...

BucharestBro wrote...


If the game is so good why are you on the forums instead of exploring Kirkwall?

It's morning here. I just woke up. 

Yesterday I had almost 10 hours long marathon of DA2 and I surely plan to do that again today. Just took some time to voice my appreciation of the game.

that doesnt seem logical

[klinesmoker]

RohanD wrote...

The game is getting lower ratings all round compared to Origins. Just accept that in the eyes of MANY it is a worse game, and in the eyes of more than a few more, it is trash. Why do you fanboys feel the need to come on here and defend it so much? So you like it. Great, go and play it. People here are complaining because they paid money for a product and are not satisfied with it.

Let me give you an analogy to make it clearer. If you go to a fancy restaurant and the food is really too salty, you might complain. You can't return it, so the best you can do is say "hey your food is too salty, I'm not coming back here, and I might even write a bad review online since that meal wasn't cheap either!" But if you go to a restaurant and the food is great, do you keep going back there, telling everyone to stop saying the food is salty, and yell at them and say "WELL I LIKE THE FOOD! YOU'RE TASTE BUDS ARE WRONG! WRONG I SAY!"

No, you don't.

The people who keep wanting to give Bioware a pat on the back and keep saying they like the game are pretty much doing this. If you like it so much, just go and play the damn thing. Just know that the game is not getting as good a reception as Origins. The post release reviews (the only ones that have even a shred of credibility) almost unanimously agree on this point. A lot of people are not happy with it, it's just a fact.

If that makes you upset, then I'm sorry but you are a little insecure and more than a little sad.

What people are upset about is that your vitriol over a game you did NOT need to purchase can and will ultimately cost jobs of people in the industry simply because you cannot get past your rose-tinted glasses. THAT is why people like myself are upset.

I will not declare this game great and will only rate it an 8/10 at best, but the consistent spam of negative harassment both here and on other forums creates nothing more than a cesspit of idiocy that people will follow as they fall into the unbelievably common fallacy of appealing to the majority.

Moreover the primary argument is how it doesn't have what "insert previous Bioware RPG" had at xyz point. These are not valid arguments against the quality of a game. Evolution happens, deal with it.

[BucharestBro]

klinesmoker wrote...

RohanD wrote...

The game is getting lower ratings all round compared to Origins. Just accept that in the eyes of MANY it is a worse game, and in the eyes of more than a few more, it is trash. Why do you fanboys feel the need to come on here and defend it so much? So you like it. Great, go and play it. People here are complaining because they paid money for a product and are not satisfied with it.

Let me give you an analogy to make it clearer. If you go to a fancy restaurant and the food is really too salty, you might complain. You can't return it, so the best you can do is say "hey your food is too salty, I'm not coming back here, and I might even write a bad review online since that meal wasn't cheap either!" But if you go to a restaurant and the food is great, do you keep going back there, telling everyone to stop saying the food is salty, and yell at them and say "WELL I LIKE THE FOOD! YOU'RE TASTE BUDS ARE WRONG! WRONG I SAY!"

No, you don't.

The people who keep wanting to give Bioware a pat on the back and keep saying they like the game are pretty much doing this. If you like it so much, just go and play the damn thing. Just know that the game is not getting as good a reception as Origins. The post release reviews (the only ones that have even a shred of credibility) almost unanimously agree on this point. A lot of people are not happy with it, it's just a fact.

If that makes you upset, then I'm sorry but you are a little insecure and more than a little sad.

What people are upset about is that your vitriol over a game you did NOT need to purchase can and will ultimately cost jobs of people in the industry simply because you cannot get past your rose-tinted glasses. THAT is why people like myself are upset.

I will not declare this game great and will only rate it an 8/10 at best, but the consistent spam of negative harassment both here and on other forums creates nothing more than a cesspit of idiocy that people will follow as they fall into the unbelievably common fallacy of appealing to the majority.

Moreover the primary argument is how it doesn't have what "insert previous Bioware RPG" had at xyz point. These are not valid arguments against the quality of a game. Evolution happens, deal with it.

Yes, I too have seen a large group of people form an angry mob when products get negative reviews. Also, could you further explain how an inanimate object can evolve? When should I expect my copy of origins to get an opposable thumb?

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

tbsking wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Mass Effect 2 also had the same complaints and the same type of rage it lasted for weeks

Complaints about ME2 are also incredibly valid.

Not really, because ME2 improved over ME in almost EVERY SINGLE WAY. ME is a very, very, very poor RPG/Shooter hybrid in every way except story. And ME2 fixed pretty much everything - except that the story is less focused. Which one is the better game? ME2, hands down, no contest.

It's different here, because DAO was actually a very good RPG and DAII is noticeably different in some aspects. It's still a good RPG, but the jump forwards in quality isn't comparable to ME vs ME2.

Modifié par Spaghetti_Ninja, 12 mars 2011 - 09:06 .

[viverravid]

Lets get back to the topic.

If this forum had a search feature, we could all go back and read the rage posts after ME2 was released. IIRC we had:

Consolization.
Story was unfocused.
Dumbing Down.
Bioware has betrayed PC RPG fans.
Call of Gears of Fable Warfare Duty.
EA has wrecked Bioware.
Never going to buy another Bioware game again.
etc

Yet ME2 was one of the best games evar, IMO, despite it's faults.

I do agree that it is a bit worse this time, though. And some of the industry reviews are worse.

tl;dr - current reaction is exaggerated. Check back in a few weeks for considered opinions.

[Ostagar2011]

The Minority wrote...

Maybe I didn't make my point clear. We have all these complainers, and they annoy me so much. While they are entitled to their opinions, they feel the need to force them upon us.

That's just the way I see it, no need to make a big deal.

Don't think of it as a "forcing" their opinion on you. Just a plea to one of the last developers of non twitch-reflex games to keep making them to a higher standard than the action adventure cinematic mainstream meh. I like a loose, fun game just as much as anyone, when I'm in the mood. Heck, I even play Modern Warfare 2. But I don't want all games to be this. It's a futile plea, I am under no illusion about that. I voted with my dollar.

[Trix-Rabbit]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

tbsking wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

Mass Effect 2 also had the same complaints and the same type of rage it lasted for weeks

Complaints about ME2 are also incredibly valid.

Not really, because ME2 improved over ME in almost EVERY SINGLE WAY. ME is a very, very, very poor RPG/Shooter hybrid in every way except story. And ME2 fixed pretty much everything - except that the story is less focused. Which one is the better game? ME2, hands down, no contest.

It's different here, because DAO was actually a very good RPG and DAII is noticeably different in some aspects. It's still a good RPG, but the jump forwards in quality isn't comparable to ME vs ME2.

You must be nuts?  This is exactly the problem here!!! They give us one thing (a AAA title) then when were not looking they change it all around for "Mass Appeal".  The formula they used to make Mass Effect 1 is what made it popular, then they changed it around while we were looking the other way.  We bought ME2 expecting one thing and got something VERY different.  

If you cant see that DA II has a quarter roughly of the areas that DA O had, your just completely blind, And dont even bother saying anything about the whole voice acting portion meaning the game had to be smaller.  All of that stuff is more or less independant sub contracts that cost money, most of it isnt even done in house at biowares studios, that content is only integrated there.

  What we essentially got was, denerim the brecilian forest, and part of korkari wilds aswell as a very small chunk of the deeproads(that was crazy short) in DA II...  Think about how much more there was to DA O.  

Some of you dont get it.  Many of us feel "tricked" for a second time even. and now were here to say, enoughs enough.... I honestly should have seen this coming after ME 2...

[viverravid]

Trix-Rabbit wrote...

Some of you dont get it.  Many of us feel "tricked" for a second time even. and now were here to say, enoughs enough.... I honestly should have seen this coming after ME 2...

Get used to it. Games are now the premiere entertainment medium. Consolization and mainstreamization are inevitable. 

Give it a few years and the market will be big enough for  "art-house' game companies to be financially viable.

[Hoax86]

This news just in: Nerds hate change!

Stick around for the 11 o'clock bulletin, and find out that smoking might not be as healthy as you think.

[Pandaman102]

Darth Postal wrote...

Right when they announsed DA2 they said that there will be no origins stories, qunary wiil get horns, main character will only be human and everyone will call you Hawke... and you still expected that DA2 will only have "incremental changes"? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

As I stated, I left the boards soon after Awakening, I pretty much went blindly into DA2 trusting Bioware's reputation and my experience with Origins. What you listed there were two changes: an artistic modification and a new plot (which race selection is part of, I don't expect to play a dwarf in a story about a human), these are to be expected in a sequel. I can't extrapolate from that sliver of information that there will be an overhaul of the combat system, the inventory system, class/skill system, adoption of the ME dialogue wheel, new set of nonsensical restrictions on weapons, or lowered production  values on maps.

I'm not psychic, I wouldn't have known to throw away all expectations unless I was closely following DA2's development.

Modifié par Pandaman102, 12 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[RohanD]

klinesmoker wrote...


What people are upset about is that your vitriol over a game you did NOT need to purchase can and will ultimately cost jobs of people in the industry simply because you cannot get past your rose-tinted glasses. THAT is why people like myself are upset.

I will not declare this game great and will only rate it an 8/10 at best, but the consistent spam of negative harassment both here and on other forums creates nothing more than a cesspit of idiocy that people will follow as they fall into the unbelievably common fallacy of appealing to the majority.

Moreover the primary argument is how it doesn't have what "insert previous Bioware RPG" had at xyz point. These are not valid arguments against the quality of a game. Evolution happens, deal with it.

What do you mean did not need to purchase? It's a video game, it's not food. What are you talking about?

I bought the game based on my belief that Bioware would somehow pull it together, that they would manage to pull it off and be true to their word about keeping the feel of Origins intact. They told me they would. They didn't. They lied, numerous times, and put out a product that is not up to the standard I expect from them. It is so blatantly obvious that the development was rushed and a sub par product was released. I paid money for that product and I have every single right to complain about it. 

Evolution? So the average review score for DA2 is lower than DA:O and you call that evolution? Your concept of what evolution is then is quite warped. 

Finally, I did not once compare DA2 to other Bioware games other than it's DIRECT predecessor, which I believe is a totally fair and logical comparison to make. 

[contextual_entity]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Shut up Piggy - I have the conch now!

Dammit, Jack, stop being an ass.

[FedericoV]

Mauross wrote...

haha trying to make this look like something normal? this is not normal, and this is not work of the trolls, this is people angry and dissapointed becouse they have lied to us and released a game that is not even finished.

No, it's not normal. But it has nothing to do with the quality of the game imho wich I'm enjoying more than DA:O cause I  know what to expect. I was disappointed by DA:O as a spiritual successor to BG. Really disappointed. Angry. I am not disappointed by DA2 as an action RPG with classical role playing feature and a cinematic approach.

The problem is that most people who are talking **** about that game were never willing to give it an honest try and that DA2 has being caught in the middle of an ideologic war between platforms and "school of thought" so to say where any rational argument has no inner value and where even the constructive and interesting criticism get lost in the vitriol and hate.

Review are not analized as what they are, but just as points in a match of sorts. It' unbelievable but that's the internet I guess. And I must say that I think that most reviewer are under rating DA2 because they fear to be called sellout while they overrated DA:O, especially on consolle.

And I know that I'm right because the most vocal haters are people who are not playing the game but watching it on youtube, criticizing it by word of mouth (or pirating it).

for lied i mean about the securROM they sayd that it will not be in the game and it is, and ea has been sued before becouse of this, and they lost, probably this will be repeated now.

No. They announced that securom is going to be in the game some months ago (at the time of the SE announcement). At least I knew it well before the publication of the game.

Modifié par FedericoV, 12 mars 2011 - 10:17 .

[Taxonomical]

Drasill wrote...

and everyone complained about how it didn't live up to the hype of being the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, it was dumbed down, and consolized? I guess we have to wait until Dragon Age 3 gets announced to put DA2 on the ol' pedastel.

Let's come back one year from now. I gaurantee you that this won't be the case. It will still be universally hated.

For the copy-pasted dungeons alone, this game will be reviled.

[Taxonomical]

Hoax86 wrote...

This news just in: Nerds hate change!

Stick around for the 11 o'clock bulletin, and find out that smoking might not be as healthy as you think.

Horrible blanket statement is horrible.

[Dorian the Monk of Sune]

Darth Postal wrote...

People should learn by now that BioWare NEVER makes the same game twice.

They are not IW/TA with their annual "CoD: The Mexican Soap Opera for Guys" games.

And that's exactly why I love BioWare.

They wish they were though.

[didymos1120]

CitizenThom wrote...

There's always Zork.

Afterall Zork will never be on console, so it must be all that is good and great about gaming.

Actually, it currently is.  There's a fully playable version within COD: Black Ops.  On the 360/PS3, you even get an achievement/trophy for beating it.

[CitizenThom]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Darth Postal wrote...

People should learn by now that BioWare NEVER makes the same game twice.

They are not IW/TA with their annual "CoD: The Mexican Soap Opera for Guys" games.

And that's exactly why I love BioWare.

Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2?

I'm not dismissing your point, I agree that since BG2 they haven't made the same game twice... but to be fair Mass Effect 2 was the only other sequel they made in the past decade. It's reasonable to expect "Bioware Game X" to be different and possibly more innovative than "Bioware Game Y", but when "Bioware Game Z2" comes out there's some expectations that it won't be radically different from Z1.

After all, prior to DA2 there was a 50/50 chance that Bioware would stick to the BG formula and make incremental changes and innovations that stay true to the core design rather than go with the ME2 format of redesigning almost everything.

BG2 was actually different from BG.. it too received complaints about making changes to the previous game. First, the world map in BG2 was a map of destinantions, rather than a square by square grid as was the case in BG. Second, a certian fighter/thief was missing from BG2, which was so outrageous that it in fact caused one fan of that fighter/thief to contract lycanthropy when BG2 came out. Third, Jaheira became a whole lot more interesting of a character in Baldur's Gate 2, although some continued to hate her. Fourth, character loyalty quests were a new addition in Baldur's Gate 2...at least for the game's love interests, which were also a new feature in BG2. You could say Planescape Torment was very similar to Baldurs Gate, but Baldur's Gate 2 made a lot of changes to the gameplay of Baldur's Gate.