139 réponses à ce sujet

[CitizenThom]

Pandaman102 wrote...

Darth Postal wrote...

People should learn by now that BioWare NEVER makes the same game twice.

They are not IW/TA with their annual "CoD: The Mexican Soap Opera for Guys" games.

And that's exactly why I love BioWare.

Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2?

I'm not dismissing your point, I agree that since BG2 they haven't made the same game twice... but to be fair Mass Effect 2 was the only other sequel they made in the past decade. It's reasonable to expect "Bioware Game X" to be different and possibly more innovative than "Bioware Game Y", but when "Bioware Game Z2" comes out there's some expectations that it won't be radically different from Z1.

After all, prior to DA2 there was a 50/50 chance that Bioware would stick to the BG formula and make incremental changes and innovations that stay true to the core design rather than go with the ME2 format of redesigning almost everything.

BG2 was actually different from BG.. it too received complaints about making changes to the previous game. First, the world map in BG2 was a map of destinantions, rather than a square by square grid as was the case in BG. Second, a certian fighter/thief was missing from BG2, which was so outrageous that it in fact caused one fan of that fighter/thief to contract lycanthropy when BG2 came out. Third, Jaheira became a whole lot more interesting of a character in Baldur's Gate 2, although some continued to hate her. Fourth, character loyalty quests were a new addition in Baldur's Gate 2...at least for the game's love interests, which were also a new feature in BG2. You could say Planescape Torment was very similar to Baldurs Gate, but Baldur's Gate 2 made a lot of changes to the gameplay of Baldur's Gate.

didymos1120 wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

There's always Zork.

Afterall Zork will never be on console, so it must be all that is good and great about gaming.

Actually, it currently is.  There's a fully playable version within COD: Black Ops.  On the 360/PS3, you even get an achievement/trophy for beating it.

I unfortunately don't have Black Ops (or many shooter games for that matter) I will have to ask my brother-n-law if he can confirm... If Zork has in fact arrived on console, it can only be because the Consoles have now joined the platforms on which all gaming is good and great.

[CitizenThom]

sorry for the multi-post.... the boards were glitchy last night.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 13 mars 2011 - 05:35 .

[CitizenThom]

sorry for the multi-post.... the boards were glitchy last night.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 13 mars 2011 - 05:34 .

[CitizenThom]

sorry for the multi-post.... the boards were glitchy last night.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 13 mars 2011 - 05:33 .

[CitizenThom]

sorry for the multi-post.... the boards were glitchy last night.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 13 mars 2011 - 05:33 .

[CitizenThom]

sorry for the multi-post.... the boards were glitchy last night.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 13 mars 2011 - 05:32 .

[CitizenThom]

sorry for the multi-post.... the boards were glitchy last night.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 13 mars 2011 - 05:32 .

[borelocin]

It would be interesting to track people who said BG2 ruined BG, then DA:O ruined BG2, then DA2 ruined DA:O

Modifié par borelocin, 13 mars 2011 - 10:39 .

[Lee T]

Hoax86 wrote...

This news just in: Nerds hate change!

Nerds do know that "change" isn't a linear variable as it's heavily affected by a factor called "choices".

Nerds don't like what they think are "bad choices" affecting "change".

Just like everyone really.

Modifié par Lee T, 13 mars 2011 - 10:50 .

[Yrkoon]

klinesmoker wrote...

Korusus wrote...

Yekoon wrote...
  The EXACT same flood of negativity afflicted DA:O when it first came out.

That's not entirely true.  I'm not one to quote review numbers because I think they're generally biased anyway...but come on...  Dragon Age: Origins has its fair share of problems, but I don't remember major reviewers giving it 8's and 7's, let alone 6.5's.

I mean when even Game Informer ,the mainstreamiest, dumbdowniest, pro-consolized reviewer in the business, says you've gone too far... then there's a problem.

DA2 is a good solid 7.  Not bad.  But not BioWare.

I can't help but note that you just stated that the worst reviewing source in the industry to you suddenly is validated because of it's negative review?

Get real and form a real argument. You cannot bend things and attempt to form something solid out of your own negative bias when it supports your verbal nonsense.

Not only that, but the flood of Negativity I was talking about, was with regards to THIS FORUM.  And that was clear in the giant part of my post which he dishonestly clipped

[Yrkoon]

cosgamer wrote...

borelocin wrote...

It would be interesting to track people who said BG2 ruined BG, then DA:O ruined BG2, then DA2 ruined DA:O

BG 2 was hailed upon release, saw very very very little negative feedback at any time from anyone..

Hahahahaha.

Someone here never visited the old boards... and doesn't remember the "swarm"....

Ask David Gaider about Karzak and  Gromnir and their dozens of noisy e-followers, and all their mindlessly retarded gripes about BG2 when it first came out.

[evilhouseboat]

Lee T wrote...

Hoax86 wrote...

This news just in: Nerds hate change!

Nerds do know that "change" isn't a linear variable as it's heavily affected by a factor called "choices".

Nerds don't like what they think are "bad choices" affecting "change".

Just like everyone really.

This is interesting. When the Egypt turmoil started there was a lot of information being spread about  a possible cause of the riots. One source cited the recent lack of food. However, riots are not cause by hunger alone.  The feeling that someone else is profiting from their pain has been attributed to the cause of many revolutions.

It's really similar to "Nerds don't like what they think are "bad choices" affecting "change"."

It's not the change, but that changes were made for fans to lose and Bioware / EA to profit.

[Jzadek72]

First rule of sequels - you will have changed something that someone really didn't want changed. DA2 tried to take a lot of risks, some of which payed off, others which didn't in my opinion. In other people's opinions, they completely destroyed the game. Others still love every change.

Thing is, those who are pissed off are not silent about it.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

corebit wrote...

Complaints back then were just as valid then as are the complaints now.

DA:O did not live up to Bioware's "spiritual successor" line, but it was still a very good game in it's own right.
The Baldur's Gate series was Bioware's masterpiece. The BG series belong in the RPG Hall of Fame. It was a mistake for Bioware to call DAO a successor, not the players' fault, because it created stupidly high expectations.

Please, anything that would have been given to you wouldn't have lived up to your expectations.

[Jzadek72]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

corebit wrote...

Complaints back then were just as valid then as are the complaints now.

DA:O did not live up to Bioware's "spiritual successor" line, but it was still a very good game in it's own right.
The Baldur's Gate series was Bioware's masterpiece. The BG series belong in the RPG Hall of Fame. It was a mistake for Bioware to call DAO a successor, not the players' fault, because it created stupidly high expectations.

Please, anything that would have been given to you wouldn't have lived up to your expectations.

Such is nostalgia.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Jzadek72 wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

corebit wrote...

Complaints back then were just as valid then as are the complaints now.

DA:O did not live up to Bioware's "spiritual successor" line, but it was still a very good game in it's own right.
The Baldur's Gate series was Bioware's masterpiece. The BG series belong in the RPG Hall of Fame. It was a mistake for Bioware to call DAO a successor, not the players' fault, because it created stupidly high expectations.

Please, anything that would have been given to you wouldn't have lived up to your expectations.

Such is nostalgia.

I don't know, maybe it's not the way people want RPG's to be anymore ( like Baldur's Gate ). I'm not too fond of the DnD combat though some people who've played Baldur's Gate keep saying it's the best thing ever.


Personally, I don't think it's hard for any developer to put the same type of combat in a new game that was done a decade ago, give or take a few modifications.

[Veracruz]

SarahRhadis wrote...

 I seem to recall alot of hatred directed at Fallout 3 back in 2008 because it was "Oblivion with Guns" and now people herald Bethesda games as the greatest thing ever.

So sadly true.

[daemon1129]

Its just feels like I have more reason to rant than before. When I first saw DAO I thought the combat animation and the blood was silly and makes no sense. Then I played the the game and still believe that's the case. That was really all the problems I have with the game aside from bugs in the Fade. When I played DA2 demo, I thought they fixed these problems and it will be great, but when I finish, I now have more reason to bash this game's problems than before. Don't get me wrong, I still think this is a good game, but only worth 2 playthroughs then I'm done with it.

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Drasill wrote...

and everyone complained about how it didn't live up to the hype of being the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, it was dumbed down, and consolized? I guess we have to wait until Dragon Age 3 gets announced to put DA2 on the ol' pedastel.

It is the same with nearly all games released (except MMOs which do the reverse) when the game is released everyone has hopes for what it will be, they play it, find out it is something different and then focus entirely on what it is not.

After a while they eventually accept the game for what it is and then come to enjoy it (for the most part) and appreciate it.  Or they find that the game is not for them and move on, either way the detractors go away very quickly leaving only the fans to discuss it.

Basically, the people who hate the game get their hate out of the way quick and then leave the forums for those of us who enjoy it.

That said however, DA 2 has given them a lot of ammo.  Its not perfect, it is the worst game Bioware have made (however to put this in context, its still a very good game, its just not up to their usual standards)

The complaints over it being short are not the biggest issue, Jade empire is short and that was a glorious game that was not appreciated at release.

[Alex109222]

If you think people are going to look back on DA2 with nostalgia then gaming in the future must be terrible. Seriously, Bioware are never going to learn, this game was a rushed piece of garbage, Bioware is not getting a penny of me anymore, they can't honestly sit there and call DA2 an rpg, but all of this "the same thing happend last time and it will be the same when the next game I released" has really got a whole peter moleneux ring to it, major hype then people annoyed with wasteing their money on a overhyped game.
Bioware is supporting the decline of RPG's and are going to continue to do so because of how muchoney they make. Don't just blame EA like Bioware is all innocent. They are both at fault for this rushed jaggie button bashing festival they think they can call an RPG. People don't lime being lied to, the only reason te games stil do well is because the casual Market is continuously buying these games and while the old fans are just packing up and leaving and all we are left with fanboys, who know nothing of critisising a company to make a better game as they will eat up anything they make.

Modifié par Alex109222, 13 mars 2011 - 03:46 .

[Vandrayke]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

I don't know, maybe it's not the way people want RPG's to be anymore ( like Baldur's Gate ). I'm not too fond of the DnD combat though some people who've played Baldur's Gate keep saying it's the best thing ever.

Personally, I don't think it's hard for any developer to put the same type of combat in a new game that was done a decade ago, give or take a few modifications.

I played Baldur's Gate when it was a new release.  It was awesome.  But I'm sick of this RPGS ARENT AS GOOD AS THEY USED TO BE crap.  I can't even play Baldur's Gate for more than an hour now because new games are so much better.  NWN is one of my favorite games ever but the OC is total crap compared to what games give you now.  

The combat in Baldur's Gate is simply annoying now.  Save 500 times and just reload and pray for a better dice roll?  Come on.  Want to use that skill again?  Too bad!  You have run around the city, look for an inn, talk to an innkeeper, run upstairs, find the room that is yours, and click "rest."  Then you can wake up, run downstairs, run outside, and you can use that skill again!  Isn't this fun and immersive!  

[Vandrayke]

I do remember how much people hated Origins.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU CANT BE A DUAL SCYTHE WIELDING HALF ORC ROGUE MONK SORCEROR?!? BIOWARE IS DUMBING EVERYTHING DOWN

[Alex109222]

The company is headed towards bringing games out like te Call of duty franchise, people are going to play it religously and black out anything they think is bad. And yes the "hatred" will be gone in a few weeks as by that time we would stop caring and leave everyone to encourage the decline of RPG's just thunk, you might just turn on Bioware when they release Dragon Age 3 (if you are not some festering fanboy)