139 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

I remember that vividly. It makes me chuckle.

[Ferretinabun]

There is probably some truth to this, and yes DA2 does not deserve to be PANNED. It is a reasonable game. Nevertheless, there are glaring flaws. So sweep all criticism aside as the mindless howlings of people desperately hoping the industry will never change is counter-productive and frustrating. Some of the criticisms laid at DA2's door are valid.
As an aside, did people really make this fuss over ME2? I thought it was an improvement over ME1 in virtually every single way.

[Vandrayke]

The thing I hated most about the ME2 hate were all the people bringing up the, "dumbing down" crap.

Especially when ME2 combat was MORE TACTICAL than ME1 combat.

[Persephone]

Ferretinabun wrote...

There is probably some truth to this, and yes DA2 does not deserve to be PANNED. It is a reasonable game. Nevertheless, there are glaring flaws. So sweep all criticism aside as the mindless howlings of people desperately hoping the industry will never change is counter-productive and frustrating. Some of the criticisms laid at DA2's door are valid.
As an aside, did people really make this fuss over ME2? I thought it was an improvement over ME1 in virtually every single way.

DAO had some glaring flaws too. Some of which were fixed by MODDERS. And yes, the hate spewing after ME2 was released was quite similar, if not worse.

[Vandrayke]

Persephone wrote...

Ferretinabun wrote...

There is probably some truth to this, and yes DA2 does not deserve to be PANNED. It is a reasonable game. Nevertheless, there are glaring flaws. So sweep all criticism aside as the mindless howlings of people desperately hoping the industry will never change is counter-productive and frustrating. Some of the criticisms laid at DA2's door are valid.
As an aside, did people really make this fuss over ME2? I thought it was an improvement over ME1 in virtually every single way.

DAO had some glaring flaws too. Some of which were fixed by MODDERS. And yes, the hate spewing after ME2 was released was quite similar, if not worse.

the no helmet hack was a must have

thankfully, there is a "hide helmet" option in DA2

Modifié par Vandrayke, 13 mars 2011 - 03:37 .

[Ferretinabun]

Persephone wrote...

Ferretinabun wrote...

There is probably some truth to this, and yes DA2 does not deserve to be PANNED. It is a reasonable game. Nevertheless, there are glaring flaws. So sweep all criticism aside as the mindless howlings of people desperately hoping the industry will never change is counter-productive and frustrating. Some of the criticisms laid at DA2's door are valid.
As an aside, did people really make this fuss over ME2? I thought it was an improvement over ME1 in virtually every single way.

DAO had some glaring flaws too. Some of which were fixed by MODDERS. And yes, the hate spewing after ME2 was released was quite similar, if not worse.

The only things which annoyed me about DA:O were little niggles. Though yes, it did need to be put through the wringer for bugs and glitches, but I don' think the game had such fundamental flaws as DA2 (the reuse of locations, the terrible combat flaws...)
That said, ME2 hate = bonkers!

[wildfly]

it's because people are not flexible. they hard and resistant to grasp new things. they deserve a copy-pasted DAO with the same grey wardens with almost the same plot and the same darkspawn. then they'll be happy.

[Emerald Melios]

Korusus wrote...

Drasill wrote...

and everyone complained how it didn't live up to the hype of being the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, it was dumbed down, and consolized? I guess we have to wait until Dragon Age 3 gets announced to put DA2 on the ol' pedastel.

Dragon Age: Origins was dumbed down and consolized.  Just like everything else in the industry today.  BioWare's just always been able to make up for it with depth and polish.  DA2 is fundamentally different from every game BioWare's made since at least Throne of Bhaal or maybe vanilla NWN, at least from my perspective.  It's a game that's literally just "okay" and average to slightly above average from a developer that people are used to see only ever develop way above average games.  I think that's the big difference here.

Like I've said, I don't dislike Dragon Age 2, heck it's even charming to some degree...but it's the kind of game I would expect to see from a less well-known developer, certainly not one with any kind of established record in the industry.  What AAA developer would ever think it was okay to use the same 5 areas over and over and over again?  Let alone BioWare for gods sake.  We are truly through the looking glass now that that day has arrived.

I am so sick of hearing these "dumbed down" and "consolized" complaints. At least consoles and handhelds don't have to be replaced every 2 years with expensive hardware like with PC gaming. <_<

[Riloux]

Yes, I do.

http://forums.biowar...revtopics=&sp=0

Modifié par Riloux, 13 mars 2011 - 05:25 .

[Emerald Melios]

Alex109222 wrote...

If you think people are going to look back on DA2 with nostalgia then gaming in the future must be terrible. Seriously, Bioware are never going to learn, this game was a rushed piece of garbage, Bioware is not getting a penny of me anymore, they can't honestly sit there and call DA2 an rpg, but all of this "the same thing happend last time and it will be the same when the next game I released" has really got a whole peter moleneux ring to it, major hype then people annoyed with wasteing their money on a overhyped game.
Bioware is supporting the decline of RPG's and are going to continue to do so because of how muchoney they make. Don't just blame EA like Bioware is all innocent. They are both at fault for this rushed jaggie button bashing festival they think they can call an RPG. People don't lime being lied to, the only reason te games stil do well is because the casual Market is continuously buying these games and while the old fans are just packing up and leaving and all we are left with fanboys, who know nothing of critisising a company to make a better game as they will eat up anything they make.

You'll have to forgive them for not being as "hardcore" as you.

[CitizenThom]

Ferretinabun wrote...

There is probably some truth to this, and yes DA2 does not deserve to be PANNED. It is a reasonable game. Nevertheless, there are glaring flaws. So sweep all criticism aside as the mindless howlings of people desperately hoping the industry will never change is counter-productive and frustrating. Some of the criticisms laid at DA2's door are valid.
As an aside, did people really make this fuss over ME2? I thought it was an improvement over ME1 in virtually every single way.

I suspect that DA2 will have some flaws that need to be adressed. I wish there was a non arbitrary way for reasonable critiques and patch requests and recommended improvements to be seperated from the people who are prone to excessive dramatics. Bioware needs to know what improvements that their customers would like to see. I'd also like to have my expectations at the right spot when the game arrives in the mail next week, useful criticisms certianly help in both regards.

Call it lowered expectations, but I expect some glitches. One aspect of the current generation of console games at least, that's pretty constant, is that the bug-free glitchless games are the exception instead of the rule...unfortunately. After Origins and Mass Effect 2 showed similar glitches... and after finding out Mass Effect 2 on the PS3 had one pretty ugly glitch on release... I wasn't expecting Dragon Age 2 to be any sharper in terms of polish. That is something that Bioware and/or EA should be involved in actively trying to improve. Technological polish seperates the good companies from the bad companies just as much as writing does.

[PurpleJesus]

craigdolphin wrote...

Weird. I've been a regular forumite since before ME1 was launched so I recall the DA:O launch quite well. And, yes, there was some complaining: as there always is. But this is rather markedly different in intensity and volume, IMO. I think Bioware have misjudged the depth of feeling this time around, and I think those who 'like' the wholesale changes to DA2 are being a bit too quick to dismiss it as well.

Change is not inherantly bad. But too much, and especially the wrong kind, can actually push people past a threshold beyond which tolerance is hard to find. Bioware has benefitted for many years from a loyal group of fans on the PC platform. I'm wondering whether DA2 will mark a watershed event where a significant fraction of that group will fall out of love with Bioware. And that will have repercussions in the years to come, even if it doesn't dent the sales figures for DA2 itself. Recall that many of those longtime customers were the targets of the early-preorder-deadline marketing campaign. I'm not convinced that those people who currently feel burned will be as forgiving in the future.

Bioware seems not to care about alienating those people: and that's a cluster-fu(dge) of epic proportions, IMO. I'm not convinced that the COD/MOH/Halo gamers that Bioware is lusting after will actually make up the difference in the long run. Those folks care mostly about multiplayer and are extraodinarily critical of level design etc. And they don't seem to give a rip about story: Bioware's major strength (historically speaking).

Moreover, that attitude gives other developers a chance at gaining the attention of fans that were once transfixed by Bioware's every tidbit and crumb of information. For example, CD Project Red seems to epitomize the anthithesis of the 'new' Bioware: anti-DRM, gorgeous graphics, dark and gritty storylines, unafraid of nudity/sex, ... and their PR is clearly not slick marketing-speak drivel like we got for DA2: it's the devs talking about the game and being human and excited about having the chance to do so. Those guys are going to be licking their chops at Bioware shrugging in apparent unconcern while their long time customers start walking away with anger and resentment in their hearts.

So, yeah. We'll see. But this feels very different to me than previous releases. It feels like Bioware is burning some bridges, and they may find that to be a matter of regret in the future.

That was a good post. 

[mander83]

Emerald Melios wrote...

I am so sick of hearing these "dumbed down" and "consolized" complaints. At least consoles and handhelds don't have to be replaced every 2 years with expensive hardware like with PC gaming. <_<

This. I am SO tired of the hatred towards consoles. Just because some people prefer the 360 (my system of choice) and PS3 over the PC does not make them any less intelligent. Dumbed down/consolized/button mashing- all of it! It is really, really annoying. <_<

[darklordpocky-san]

psh, who criticizes games anymore?

people should just buy into hype and ignore valid criticisms

[Dorian the Monk of Sune]

Riloux wrote...

Yes, I do.

http://forums.biowar...revtopics=&sp=0

Wow Akka fought the good fight on level scaling. Too bad they didnt listen


http://forums.biowar...&forum=135&sp=0

Modifié par Dorian the Monk of Sune, 14 mars 2011 - 03:46 .